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tv   Quadriga - Is Russia Playing Fair with Sport  Deutsche Welle  December 7, 2017 6:30pm-7:00pm CET

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d.w. dot com africa on the move. unimpeded access to education and knowledge and the same opportunities for everyone. a central goal of the global community but what's the reality on the ground education for all the w.'s multimedia special relates personal stories and highlights extraordinary projects the world over find out more on the internet d.w. dot com education for all. alone a very warm welcome indeed to quadriga where the focus this week is on russia which has been bound from the upcoming winter olympics in south korea over allegations of systematic state sponsored doping the decision was announced on
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tuesday by the head of the international olympic committee told us buck and today in light of that announcement many are once again asking whether next summer's soccer world cup which is of course set to be hosted by russia is in the right down after all one person above all looks to benefit from the tournament that is allowed to be an appointee so the question here on quadriga this week is putin's games is russia playing fair with sports and to discuss that question i'm joined here in the studio by eric kirsch boehm who writes for the los angeles times and who has a long track record in covering sports and especially soccer and he says banning the russian team from the winter olympics is a bold but brilliant move also with us is very near as you paul from deutsche about his russian department he believes it doesn't matter what you think of the russian government the twenty eighteen world cup is going to be a huge celebration of soca for everybody bloody me it's not doing and that has to
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be good he ses and a warm welcome to to downing is a car choke a freelance journalist working for russian and english language publications dani argues that the doping scandal is painful to witness but not really surprising to anyone familiar with the mindset of russian officials. welcome once again to all for if you would like to begin with you eric it was described as one of the weightiest decisions ever faced by the olympic movement it has now been decided russia has been banned from competing in the twenty eight hundred. intermix in south korea you say it is a bold but brilliant move why bold why brilliant i think the i.o.c. needed to take a firm step this time they've been pussyfooting around for a long time with doping and the evidence was overwhelming in this case criminal energy that in when the sochi to using spies to exchange the urine samples is amazing when you read this you just can't believe this really happened and they had to do it to save any credibility the winter olympics have been sliding downhill for
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a long time in the ratings people care less and less about it i used to love sports i used to go to the i covered the olympics in athens and beijing now i don't even watch it i think it's all just ruined by doping so this is a really heartening development for me to see the i.o.c. taking a firm step i think thomas bach did the right thing by cracking down hard but leaving a bridge open for the russians to take part if they can prove that they're clean being you might say you might say you might say bold and brilliant is the zero tolerance of the international olympic committee had promised because there will be russian athletes after all competing at the at the games hopefully the russian hockey players figure skaters sports where doping is not really an issue hopefully the world will see some of these great russian hockey players on the ice i'm looking forward to seeing russian hockey players again. before i come to the two russians who have it we have in the finals and i'd just like to stick with you for just a secondary because i mean. let me give you a flavor of what's being said from the russian side a russian foreign ministry spokeswoman came out and said they're always trying to
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put down put us down in everything our way of life our culture our history and our sport what do you say to such sentiments it's ridiculous i mean it's the soul and circle mentality we see it with nato they're afraid that nato isn't circling this well i think most people in the west realize this is ridiculous and hopefully nobody will take it too serious that's russia's problem of they feel that the west is in a circle and that's russia's problem they think that the i.o.c. is going after them for doping when they've been caught red handed i think most people outside russia see it differently. not him has been looking very thoughtful daria has been looking very thoughtful dora you say you are your personal reaction to this you talk about doping scandal of the whole saga being painful tell us about the pain well to be honest i guess just like most people in russia i did not expect the russian team to win the sochi olympics so when russia won it was a great surprise i was actually really happy to witness it and cheer just like
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everybody else. it was a great surprise but then afterwards when this whole doping scandal started i realized that it was fake the feeling could be compared to someone giving you a christmas present making her happy with it and then you realize that the gifts are is actually have betrayal shoplifter we stole a present from someone else yeah i was not surprised of eating no such i didn't expect was it's perfect at that are russian political goals i think the russian on some political they all wanted to be first on the sochi olympics at any cost and it was no question of course the time four years ago and three and a half years ago so russia got this prize in the sochi olympics with huge cost of opening and this is the problem of russia to have a huge difference on the international level in the have a reality of it not always fit to be some decisions because this can be used dumping which is the same things to do so ban of from the olympics and such as in korea it's complete disaster for russians no question there i'm pretty sure that
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was the goal but i remember reading all the forecast right before the olympics nobody expected for russia to be even to take even the search place where it is now . so it was a nice surprise for russian people and i'm surprised the russian norman but as i started to i'm not surprised but fulfilling these goals by any means before we continue the conversation and let's just take a closer look at what is. the allegations of state backed doping amounts to. the twenty fourteen winter olympics in sochi russia the host nation won thirty three medals more than any other country russia and president vladimir putin came off looking like champions but did they play fair or were the real champions that doping laps. two years after the games had investigator for the world anti-doping agency richard mclaren published some serious allegations that the moscow laboratory operated for the protection of doped russian athletes within
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a state directed feel safe system the russian ministry of sport directed controlled and oversaw the manipulation of athletes and little results no less than the head of russia's own anti-doping lab grigori wrote chunk of was chief witness he left for the united states as did you yesterday part of a runner who had reported systematic doping in russian sports started the ball rolling. are the accusations of state sponsored doping just mudslinging against russia. but i mean what do you say to that question are these allegations just mudslinging on the part of the west a conspiracy on the part of the west against putin's efforts to make russia once again a strong nation it fits the. kind of paranoia i have in the country since couple of yes. i'm not sharing this so it's not my opinion but it's an opinion who is sharing
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a lot of people in russia the vest on war us joe many in portugal are trying to destroy russia on some level. and it's a bad thing because there's no way out sort of just escalating with every sanction against russia just as collating this conflict there between russia and the vest and mark haines all i'm not sharing this opinion is the mindset that you with the russian mindset that you were referring to the beginning of the show and your quote of the beginning that well i meant actually something else something or also mentioned. that it is pretty common for russian officials to chip to cheat on things i mean russia is a remarkably corrupt country if those people without blinking an eye steal so much money from the state budget why can't they fake doping samples that's a good point. if they do not value any kind of fair play they just want a victory at any price because you know so you have no such rules came in best and
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lawrence russians are quite young country and germs of state structures because they have complete collapse under state ninety one so i really think is new in the these rules fixation in russia is not that strong that in germany are in the best and in general so their all is a question of how to interpret your interpretation there are all saw you can steal you can cheat you can not get punished but this is a mind sent in the country it's not the government in my mindset of it's there in all and all a new level and in the country in russia in the population it's like acceptable very kewl thought i mean hopefully that's why i think this is a good move by the i.o.c. is hopefully they'll learn the lesson this time i think i would talk about east germany and germany they had their whole doping history as well i think germany learned from that i don't think germany anybody thinks that there's any serious doping going on in germany. so hopefully these sanctions will have
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a educational effect on not only russia but other countries that are thinking about doping and that's why i think it's a smart move by the i.o.c. tough sanctions but leaving the door open for individual russian athletes to take part in voting have what did you what did you make of the announcement yesterday president putin's announcement that he is going to be standing again for the presidency what did you make of the timing of that announcement i'm not surprised after the over and if i mean again it's just accidental that that was yesterday it could be tomorrow it could be the day before i mean it doesn't play in your role naturally you see it differently i mean yeah i wouldn't even say it's a new thing everybody knew he was running on ok let's listen to the talking of president putin and what he has been saying he also came out yesterday didn't just talk about the candidacy he talked he gave his immediate reaction to the doping ban let's listen to what vladimir putin had to say. to really get upset you all of this looks like an absolutely manipulated and politically motivated decision. we see this i have no doubts about it because you could use them you. got in there is this
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i mean the language that you get from the russian president the sense is that the east and west are still locked in a sporting cold war is not the case i mean to see itself as i mean i'm russian citizen but i'm not see myself as a part of this paranoia but russian government and to be part of russian society see themselves in a kind of cold war with the best and obviously saw what happening with the olympic games and fits perfectly to this picture of the birth of you know trying to be destroyed on some level by the best in country and so i'm not surprised but it's statement on their record cold war sporting cold war between the east and the west you smile i think it's ridiculous but i mean i think this fits into putin's strategy and it makes put more popular at home probably but makes him less popular around the world i think he just hurts his credibility outside russia more and more with this strategy i think putin doesn't really care about his proper chain of work
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and it's out of question for him one question that comes to mind is this putin care for the athletes i mean the athletes in some ways if you just perpetrate is part of the russian doping system but at the same time they're also victims of the system you mentioned you know east german systematic doping in east germany. you know that had a huge impact on the health the long term health of many of the people who were you know involved in those doping practices how concerned is putin about that how concerned are russian people about that russian people as very concerned a mob of because without winter olympics it's a disaster for russia because we're all i'm not saying the upsets but the winter olympics but it's playing extremely huge role in the russian public opinion so is a child to you're bringing up in russia watching every four years they're going to him because you know you're get used to not seeing russian fake not hearing russian anthem and their name because it's a disaster. how are the russians likely to respond in sporting terms darted to this
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. i have been observing the reactions in the media for the last couple of days since the news breaks and since yesterday. i could say that the reactions of very different quite a lot of people are saying that the russian team should go anyway. i am personally on that side as well because for the athletes it is something they have been preparing for for their whole lives it is really could be a pinnacle of their career for many of them they definitely deserve to go if they can prove that they are clean. and i do not think why they should miss out on any of it but quite a lot of people are saying that the asteroid's going anyway despite the ban on the russian team would be tantamount to national treachery that is something that as a as a russian journalist here a lot of those once unfortunately people somehow tend to associate the country the state and the name of ludmer putin together and if you do something
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which is not in the general line you're supposed to be a traitor so it's deciding to go and compete on the olympics just because of their ambition despite their country being so not representing their country but more representing themselves to some people would by some people would definitely be seen as torture and we have already seen reactions like that quite a lot actually but thankfully putin himself has said that he will not be obstructing athletes to go from so i'm quite hopeful that a lot of russian efforts would say it was a really encouraging signal this week that putin did call for a boycott there was a fear that he would even it i mean we had the eighty in the eighty four olympics that were tainted by the political boycotts over afghanistan and so it's encouraging i mean this is why i'm optimistic that it could be a good olympics after all and that russia will be back with its team in four years you just have to do the best from the situation and outlets to go into. and to try to show all the work that we convened with all dumping on. just give me
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a word on whether you believe because we keep talking a lot of new putin's controlling role role in all this does does he know we sure that he knows and has known about the about the extent of the the systematic doping practiced by the russian federation i don't think anything i don't know anything for sure but i'm kind can just fickle a bit you know and new in just tired of all these docking system i'm not sure the huge new everything in the last detail he aligned himself very closely to the sochi olympics fifty billion dollars were spent to build a winter olympic venue in a summer resort the i.o.c. loved him for it nobody really wants to bid for the winter olympics anymore putin did and so putin baka very close that's why it's all the more remarkable that bach had the courage to take these sanctions so it's hard to imagine putin had no clue this was going on but i'm not sure he was controlling the state pumping system in the last no no i don't know either and nobody knows everything about what's going
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on. we can't on this because no one knows for sure you know. i wish i did i wish i did yeah ok we need to move on just a little bit we need to talk about how the the doping saga the doping scandal is going to impact on russia's hosting of the soccer world cup next summer especially given the amount of hope that russian president vladimir putin is investing in the world cup and the russian people indeed that's what your report first of all before we talk about that. allegedly already. the strong man in the kremlin knows p.r. protean is well known for his love of images like these the athletic outdoors the sportsman and he has no qualms about showing it potent is not known as a football fan but he brought the twenty eighteen world cup to russia and russians are overjoyed. he will definitely play in the finals i'm just waiting for the
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finals and we're going to win i've been waiting for this world championship for forty years now. that. the countdown to the twenty eighteen world cup in russia is on it's the same year as russia's next presidential elections it may well provide a handsome return our sports in russia upon and putin's power games. it's a question we will we have been addressing we will continue to address but i want to go first of love the man who is a very very big soccer fans and who is looking forward very much to the soccer world cup tell us more about him that i'm really walking around looking forward to his sort of game in some sort of book in my home every time i reference and put his book in the middle of the night i'm passing on the new highway by a new soccer star and once in the book and it's complete serial that's what's it got in the city i'm breaking from my tickets for one game and simpers book which
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argentina participates oh i got this ticket and i won to say that. it's not on the porch and rush is on amount of people as well and it's for russian people on the average level from normal russians it's a huge huge celebration it's a huge event and the whole situation for his book as well as other see just as there are all across russia looking forward to hostile work to come no matter how bad the dropping was no matter how bad the corruption was. no matter how many money was stolen during these buildings it's a huge step abrasion and i was talking to a leading german sports journalist after the announcement of the ban on the russians participation in the in the winter olympics came through and he said you know big reporter on suck a big fan of soccer very passionate about soccer he said in my working life and in my own life i have a sort of rhythm i go from the european championship to the world cup to the
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european championships the world cup and that's how my lies found out very much and he said yeah great he said this time around i can't generate any enthusiasm for the world cup in russia because of put because it's such an free country what do you say to that kind of every every country was who was hosting the world cup in the last year brazilian south africa had this set of domestic problems in brazil it was a huge protest against a sort conference south africa was. fighting with some domestic problems was about so russia is not a perfect country germany expecting us to be perfect in germany expecting everyone to have an effect germany. but we are not perfect we are by far not perfect country they're stealing money cheating their savior doping in the olympics are not perfect so we are not fitting in this perfect expectation of the german public opinion in pub or german media to deliver
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a perfect perfect world cup never have asked you to be for me as a russian citizen that it would be a huge huge. what he said as well as harry can you enthusiastic about the upcoming soccer world cup oh yeah absolutely it was covered the world cup in germany in the world cup in brazil four years ago and i think it's a great chance to see and learn more about the country i think the world got to see what real germany is like in two thousand and six with the world cup here there was a lot of outdated views of germany in the world got to see what a friendly smiling country this is helpful people good weather and it was a great tournament and hopefully. it'll be a great tournament in russia as well and the world will get to learn more about russia away from putin away from politics excuse me it's exactly the point they're both companies are in germany three if you're known few years ago six it was not about miracle and what company russia two thousand and eighteen is not on the ball but sometimes i have an expression and i knew i didn't say the germans are hypocrites i'm saying that the german public opinion is
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a kind of obsessed by put him in even if you talk soccer if you even if you talk talks for it's in soccer all the baby coming back the fortune. he speaks german he was a k.g.b. agent here there's the obvious first yeah and then drop it. down to what he said i'm thinking of the russians much more than on the one person russia is so much more than on the pushing yeah i would really like to support that i mean as a russian journalist and reporting about russia for the english language so you agree with a lot of me yeah that's right you know it's just putin definitely yeah yeah i'm going to say i mean you really want you know somebody who has reported on human rights concerns there are massive human rights concerns about russia there have been is this just a sort of a fiction of the west or is this is this the west fifty is it a poll kristie once again on the part of the west to focus on gay rights on racism on human rights in general i definitely do not think this is it is hypocritical of the western media to focus on it western public to look at it because it is
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happening on this huge scale. i mean remember only this year there was this huge scandal with the gay people being murdered in chechnya so. dozens of people gay men in chechnya which is the region in the south of russia in the caucasus. tortured some of them managed to escape some were killed some of them were killed by their own families who were forced to kill them to clean their own or. i have only today actually checked a report by a social scientist in russia who counted that since two thousand and ten there has been over two hundred murders of gay people around russian you know don't get me wrong and is not perfect and they have a huge huge so for domestic problems gay rights human rights criminality you name it but every country in the world to is applying to. be hosting their work got
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brazilian south african whatever it's all they something you can talk about criminality in brazil you're talking. you can talk about hiv in south africa there is always something to talk fact remains though that vitale motoko there yeah work has now been banned by the international olympic committee of his role in the systematic doping. that has led to the ban he never lets the last remains correct me if it's not true the man effectively in charge of the world cup at the upcoming world cup and he's deputy russian prime minister this is not just this is serious it's huge now and it's as if it's a disaster it's a disaster for russian public it's a disaster for russian government and it's disaster for everyone because of the such high level if you're international organization like i.o.'s saying retiling would call your band it's a disaster no no doubt. certainly a massive stain on the russian world cup i mean who knows maybe you won't be there
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by the time that the tournament starts but it is it is absolutely big problem and you will see what happens if you still there do you expect political process like you know the way that we saw through surf and russert russia last time brazil last time around booed by brazilian soccer fans do you expect that kind of thing to happen in flooded with putin's russia during the world cup it is a very interesting question because as it as we all know the same here is the presidential election so there has already been at least two big protests several actually and russia this year and there will probably be next year as well but the russian state i am not really an expert in brazil so i do not know how vigorously. how vigorous is our place compared to brazil but it was brutal in moscow i remember in june there were i think around a thousand people arrested during a one day is
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a record there has never been something like that so this intimidation tactic may have worked out and there might be no protests at all i can hardly imagine russian public lighting were printed on the stadium you know i was going to try to move call a just to go into. the yeah i think if you can because everybody you know i still. it wasn't nor was the border ok we're drawing to a close i'd like to ask the two russians and again. about their views on me putin says he welcomes the world coming to russia they're going to see russia for themselves what are they going to take away from them with them in a sentence. i hope they take away something good. that they see the friendlier more open part of russia and the. young people in it and. one sentence rationally so much more than just. ok believe that russia is so much
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more than just frozen thank you very much for joining us i'm wondering at this time we look forward to seeing you again next time around five by interest.
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