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tv   Doc Film - Crime Novels and the Third Reich  Deutsche Welle  December 29, 2017 6:15am-7:01am CET

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story. makes us laugh. and cry. trouble and smile. magical images. emotions that monks. no good can see every weekend on d w. on freedom and whole. world i come from the region is rich in history and talent but so poor in education opportunity and freedom this makes it especially difficult for independent journalists i see many of the younger promising journalists are now making names for themselves all over the. song by the way some might follow. with continue. their experience of freedom a sense is like that fenians day you can visit it with your car coming back from.
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mining your fish florida and i work at the. inconceivable atrocities took place in the nazi era. three european authors have written very successful crime novels and the third time. so why is this a fitting shondra for writing about this chapter of german history.
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shaped almost more buffy the moment i wrote a new r. novel about paris during the occupation because the french know very little about those years should. and even less about the collaboration with the nazis but he almost this city itself becomes a protectionist in the novel a bit too much of a moment it was a violent time. in some parts of paris people were partying while in other parts they were starving for no good no he's a quintessential elements of the war fiction but we're not allowed to sell steal money. because of the price because in the final republic because of the nazis because of the cold war he was being probably the base for t.v. in changing cities most interesting city to write about the us had you said from the point of view of crime right up to the anywhere so let's get right.
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to the body by my life in berlin the final yes but the most exciting time after that because of your apart from the economy everything was flourishing intellectual and cultural life and science all of that ended up promptly ninety three it's almost impossible to explain this cultural breakdown which was ultimately to wreak havoc on the entire world of the crime novel is the best medium for understanding this period but a lot but good reading. philip was the first to create a german police inspector who works in the third. based in berlin. after the nazi takeover and high stock fire the nature of policing changed
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opposition politicians were rounded up. a man with drafted in to work as exhilarate police. increasingly jews became a target of persecution. in his novels kermit is history and fiction. boss is detective superintendent. a modern police officer who introduced the use of crime scene forensics he was also the inspiration for superintendent in fritz lang's film. only. it. started out as a copywriter. in london in the one nine hundred eighty s. first office the second one moment smile face when. that was the
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agency i worked in before i went to work. for a subject such. so yeah i worked a man for. five years. across the street from because former office is the london library was bored by advertising work so he turned to studying. and writing crime novels. i was very lucky because i mean you know. working there and having this library here. that seemed like a really you know lucky charms nobody knew i was going it was like. you know i could be over here for an hour and nobody would notice. a sleeve my coat hanging on the back of the chair i come in here yeah exactly. is this the first place.
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and i said they came interested in the whole phenomenon of the nazi revolution and i wanted to understand it better and once i started to read german philosophy i sort of started to get much more interested in how it all happened he's a kind of extension of me in a lot of ways he's big he's grumpy he's misanthropic. he's some decent he's temperamentally unemployable. and post your mo he's got a very dark sense of humor as i have got a free blacks and if you man myself but i find that some. i find that chimes with berlin itself and it i think berlin is have a free a very dog sense of humor a cruel sense of humor. perhaps it's me growing up and skull on the debt now but the scots have a very cruel sense of humor and they're cruel people. and so the cruelty comes out
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in the humor i think really and that's that in a way it's the it's the humor that makes it possible for the writer to get through the book without committing suicide. writer and former journalist fuckwit child lives than. his first crime novel was published in german in two thousand and seven it was the start of an award winning series about cologne native. who also works as a police inspector in berlin. carry on a lot. it's a typical cologne native the church is important for him and carnival season is even more important he's not as catholic as his parents think he should be but he's more catholic than he realizes he's actually sort of agnostic his attitude is typical of his home city of gnostic or maybe there is a god so we should live our lives in a way that we just that we can to have and. that's also how german comedian you're
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going back to put it in the great of the minus is good enough it's not a mortal fear minos of iced. in contrast to philip begins his work in the weimar republic. he's interested in how inspector hot deals with a transitional from democracy to dictatorship. and his fifth case hartis in cologne for the famous monday carnival parade. in one nine hundred thirty three mayor con had ordered the removal of swastika flags from the streets the parade motto was cannibal like it used to be. but not a flags were everywhere one year later and racist and anti-semitic themes also
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featured increasingly on the flights this reached its india in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine. that here the war began. and by nine hundred forty five colonial a in ruins. but in one thousand nine hundred eighty three god's world was still in pretty good shape he even had a flag after all it was khan of all time. and food on site. in those days. things weren't as permissive as they are today still at the carnival celebrations guys could find a girl everyone was in a party mood was told so found a woman but unfortunately he was already engaged that was not exactly appropriate this them so pleasant.
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and family historian domenico not lived in paris. the first crime novel was published in the one nine hundred ninety five. in two thousand and four she released her darkest novel yet which describes the brutal activities of the french to stop and during the occupation david i get i don't get upcoming shows this shows that he's a was important at the beginning of the war the first thing the germans did was march down the boulevard. to keep us safe throughout the occupation they paraded here every morning and he. said in my novel there's a scene that takes place at the end of the war as. it describes an endless
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procession of damaged tanks and very young soldiers have it be so. eight years or more exhausted many are wounded. and they're on their way home. testing football this is the cover of the paperback edition photo. the photo shows paris residence during the occupation they're standing under swastikas and flanks and fraternizing with the germans in a fight that he's su. well known that you can see a champagne glass in the foreground. here is very relaxed it shows ordinary people having a great time. the nazis chief character. is a vice squad inspector who works undercover for the resistance and is in radio contact with london. he frequents the glamorous parisian salons and observes
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firsthand how easily the germans are corrupting french society. he belongs to both the resistance and the police has to play a street in conspicuous character at all times. he's watched into playing this role he has to appear completely insignificant. absolutely mo i know but under normal circumstances he wouldn't be like that at all. so ok now on the condition. in her book why not he also writes about a massacre of young resistance fighters that was carried out by the french gestapo in august one nine hundred forty four. we suppress exact among them so that actually happened in what events in. what i moved to the border blown you.
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all novel writing is politics it's a huge luxury to be able to write about you know the worst people in history. and go learn people like that they are. it's lighter it's like dracula i mean the these are wonderfully villainous or for people to write about that are beyond invention novelis could invent a character as wicked as hydra. this is general pace was one of the main architects of the holocaust and cursed first novel march violets going to me titus who sends him to the concentration camp as an undercover agent it's a painful experience for bernie. in later books had this evolves into his make this. race was fully capable of being a loving father and
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a brutal police functionary the checks called him the blonde beast. how did it was assassinated in prague in the one nine hundred forty two incurs novel prague fertile how trace has bernie's lover checks by brutally tortured in his presence. so that scene came around because i just wanted to remind people of what these who these people were and what they did to people and what they were capable of doing to people you know. but equally the method that they used to interrogate their goal is what the cia are doing today so that's why it's there you know the nazis invented waterboarding or probably they didn't but they were certainly very effective at doing it so you know you with all the stories you want there to be a kind of. something that resonates in the modern world. in
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january nine hundred forty two presided over the vines a conference on the final solution to the jewish question. there it was decided that most of the jews in german occupied europe would be deported to poland and made it kirk has come here to do research for peace of the. worst of the worst. and they see it as. the swearing we see you've done after the war was declared he did a lot of time in the in the lift up he became first bill came a recount. in the buff and went on bombing in. norway. and he really enjoyed he just enjoyed sitting back machine gunning.
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another of his nazi era crime novels focuses on a fictional police conference that was held five months after the conference. is dead by then and as she says the conference which is also held at the van's a villa the all. the same time the international crime of the century was being committed by many of the people sitting in the room and it just struck me as she always love these kind of ironies of history i love the sort of the bits between the lines of history that we don't know about i mean it was trite most people is absurd that they would they would do that but that's exactly what they did so you know here where we're standing now there would have been in july nine hundred two there with the being policeman from all over you're standing here having a cigarette i mean cup of coffee and then going in there and having lectures from
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various policeman and one of whom in the novel will be pentagon for. so burney us turn up and make a speech in there so that's really what i was after i'm. standing in that window thinking that's where he stands that's where the speech occurs and then they come out here and they have a cup of coffee he's introduced to somebody who will be pivotal in the rest of the story who's a swiss policeman. in one thousand nine hundred forty the nazis occupied paris. minorities' main character is the head of the french kostopoulos. a highly decorated police officer and he controls all of paris together with former gangster all the love for. both our collaborators and criminals those who oppose them full out of windows will simply vanish for ever he'll need to vote against
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that before we're here at ninety three rule lower east on that chris was an infamous address during the occupation. it was the headquarters of the french to stop oh yes the people who think that your division. when the lot of money is building where bonnie and la phone had their offices was called lock erlang or the cockpit minimill. you see i see this building witnessed many dreadful crimes who you see many people were tortured here has not been thought the french to stop a was a key element of the collaboration structure and next day it could be in the thick head don't mean huge because i. feel neat because of this it says you need. to consider the plasticity as uni just a few steps away but as they sit there. day the frame i guess topple prison was located here at number three. on their prisoners were kept here between
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interrogations they would do that before they were turned over to the germans i've owned and even it's at their grammar. about twenty meters away from the gestapo prison at number eleven is the alltel dunno why you during the war it housed one of the liveliest literary and artistic cellphones in paris. he there were two big cell phones one was run by florence the other by madame de no i. met them to know i. wasn't the buildings are close together was some of the every time i come here i'm struck by the contrast and it reminds me that people must have known what was happening here again your plea they could not have ignored it and this is where it all took place memo. this year they extravagant parties and their that doc torture and death spots memo and the buildings were right next to each other. maybe the french upper class completely accepted the s.s.
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and they were mocked they don't mean the s.s. men were more popular because their uniforms were much more attractive uniform that black is a lot more becoming than field gray. a pretty young good to have to go through. the chief collaborators came to an inglorious and the germans abandoned them when they pulled out of paris. when la phone was taken prisoner after the liberation he said i spent four years surrounded by orchids tell you send bentleys it was worth it for a the phone was the rest of the day paris was liberated and was executed immediately. his stance resistance means admitting that terrible things happened.
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if you don't talk about them you allow them to happen again. i hope you will. as this is instituted which if you are the first sentences are really important just like the last one as you appear to not just in the novel as a whole but in each chapter to get seeger's that's the sentence i've got now is ok it's ok it definitely gets you into the scene but how i'm going to stop the book because well i can read it as it's going to fall in the suggestive comments on
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their own the room was full of people muttering and clouds of cigarette smoke max hansen's voice grated from the phonograph speaker and then comes a call from hanson books and yet. we had a good beat up. on. the main issue you. need me if you know the think you need to. believe him and i'll talk right of inishmaan how can i continue my daily routine when i realize that everything around me is changing radically and i throw this up the shaft a lot since i got to be careful he is just one of us no more rule of law often and it's easy to fall into the clutches of a wild pack of essay wolves that's bush didn't need money would never stick his neck out like phillip because benny going to no way even if he says i'm going to know what he's a totally different kind of character your feet are going to sometimes i wonder how going to could have survived back then. rod might have a big mouth in charlie's present but never around anyone from the s.s. o.s.a.
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it was if we had was as they can all go projects i used to carefully plot out everything as you should do with crime stories of the plot is really important but lots of ideas come to you while you're writing and that's great it's surprising how many of these ideas you can use and how things work out differently than i'd imagined and that's not so bad because if i can surprise myself hopefully i can surprise my readers as well at least that's what i'm striving to achieve for us just as he's gotten most of. this is what gave you my heart to look like in a new graphic novel. this is beyond your comic all soon this is how the artist imagine same effect of being done for them his gear we are in front of headquarters on berlin's alexanderplatz in the plots and that's barely house. you can see the stop lights and power lines and of course
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a cigarette you better carry all never leaves home without one. we all know. the especially novels written in the first person are the i. in the eye makes it more personal it's like you yourself are meeting gerbils you're self or having to shake his hand and have a meeting at a coffee and a cigarette with gerbils and you yourself are having to be careful about what you say so hopefully the choices the conversation brings you to. brings bernie to the same choices that the reader would have which is you know how do i say how do i give this person what they want but without compromising my moral. my my true moral inner self how do i do that how do i not do everything he wants without ending up dead and so
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you know these are the things that interest me as a as a writer how to be how to walk that tightrope. little. girls was famously. wanted. you seem to have had an affair with many actresses. principally one called lead a bar over but he got a bit of a reputation as a ladies and it wasn't just the sort of rest of the the third reich that made jokes about about his sexual. appetites it was pretty much so. and of course being in control of germany's film industry which was based here was like sort of. putting this you know. a fact kid in charge of this week's
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show really wasn't perhaps the best thing that could have. could have happened. and cast early crime novel a quiet flame danny boldly climbs into the flask of yours if god is in the bathroom he leaves behind a most unpleasant calling card. i was asked myself what i would do you know and i guess that's what i would have done if i ever found myself in goebbels his bathroom you know i did yeah use this toilet and then flush it and. i got it as i think i probably told you earlier i'm going to sort of naturally dark sense of humor. makes writing about nazi germany from
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a detective point of view so interesting because nobody is what they seemed. just from a point of view and from a point of view of survival that quite often the good the good guys aren't what they seem to be because they have to pretend not to be good guys it's like bernie as old as he might have always been a big fan of his era the one nine hundred twenty s. and thirty's the berlin of the new york jets tipitina's meant and american gangsters from the twenty's and thirty's. and for her that's a good device he got from his emotions just in the end of it i've always found them fascinating despite as i got the idea of combining the two after watching two fillets but i feel like it's a standard wished in. road one was road to perdition with tom hanks which came out around ten years ago. he did enough to me. when i was the other was fritz lang's m.
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salt honest i thought and it takes place in one thousand nine hundred eighty one the same year that the film was made on. the road to perdition also takes place in one nine hundred thirty one but was shocked about seventy years later when a lot i could do it. right there that. all of them. oh dear here take. you back to mike and the world featured in the road to perdition and the world of one nine hundred thirty s. berlin it can also contemporaneous so why don't merge them that's how i got the idea for giving them oddities.
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to put it to suspect definitions of the political aspect germany's political development is now the most important thing for me to be asked as so the idea to follow the course of this development was the second step and. then i had the idea to create a series that goes beyond ninety thirty three instead of having these gangster stories take place before nine hundred thirty three in a more or less normal society thinks the mine shaft i want to use the crime novel to show how society changes us if you use it and for that for me much to anybody didn't know my crime novels usually try to restore things to the status quo especially evil should be punished and locked away and gave me on does this the best he can he says but this is ultimately futile in the third right it's the criminals he's hunting up both the murderous and his superiors you know and he's in a rather bizarre situation and this is what i wanted to trade. for you. i have vivid
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memories of the third man it's wonderful i always try to imagine those scenes when i write. sometimes i imagine scenes in black and white or. similar has had an enormous influence on me. that's. what the book now. yes he also addresses the fact that many french artists including john cook told admired they german counterparts people like hitler's favorite skull to. cook doorway to play was a major collaborator he organized the big breaker exhibition in paris in one thousand nine hundred two and wrote an introduction for it. who was fascinated with erotica visited the exhibition. he said it's
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a good thing statues don't have erections otherwise there'd be no room to move around. according shasta swap on the bus comply purposely going to. his publisher is based in new york. and when his books come out in the u.s. he travels around the country to promote them this time because wife jane time has come along americans love his blend of nazi horror and hard boiled detective fiction. there's only one thing worse than being an american book tour and that's not being asked to do with america. because it's like it's it's. there's a lot of adrenaline and it's a performance. in
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new york he makes an appearance at a small but well stocked book store that specializes in crime novels the mysterious bookshop. unlike his colleagues doesn't care much for standard readings he prefers to talk about his latest books. over the years i've learned a little awful lot about this period and you know you read about one concentration camp or another or the holocaust and i became aware of the existence of this place in the former yugoslavia which was called just the end of the church wasn't just on the death count it was a murder and cruelty and killing cap. and that the
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cruelties that were practice they were on speak well i'm not going to give into details but they put this way it was so bad that your original s.s. detachment who'd been sent. back to berlin and said look can we leave this place it was so bad even the s.s. didn't want to be there bags how bad it was. there's a kind of a train parked in this field it was the death train rather like the sort of train arrived men women and children were taken off this train and they were they went on this little ferry across a river and on this island there were all these people waiting to murder them with axes and. and beheading has become a kind of a phenomenon that we've become we've become very familiar with in in the newspapers of late. these yugoslavian roman catholic priests who were principally
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responsible for getting. nazi war criminals out. and there was nobody worse than these people i think they probably killed. between eighty and one hundred thousand people on this little island roman catholic priests anyway that was the other thing why i want to write about the yugoslavs and the croats because it's common as soon it was the germans who. killed people and we forget the roles played by some of the other races in europe like like the crow and. there have been in auschwitz because i mean there's no scene in there's not really a scene in the book which is said. if there had been i would have got not yet well no i don't think there will be actually because i feel i would feel probably uncomfortable writing about it because i feel that. it was something that was so awful i think you know to try and
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describe it i don't think unless you've been there you kind of earned the right probably to write about it if you've been there but i think you haven't really really earned the right to write about it if you haven't been there. and i had to sort it was difficult because when i wrote from zagreb i had to go to this place this awful concentration camp. in bosnia called years and verge and. i felt i had to get permission from the people who had died there so i sort of stood in the sounds melodramatic but that's how it felt or stood in the cattle the the wagons transported the people on the train. the train is there so you can actually stand in these cattle cars and feel what it must have been like so i felt i had to sort of you know pray almost to the people and say look if i'm right about
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this i promise i will not you know says trivialize this and i promise i will be your. sorry. ok. professor now frank is get over you so you may want to. know why the phone camera. now you see what you're about the qualities of thank you. for this you know it is ok thank you so much. for.
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paris august nine hundred forty four the city's new german commander general details from cultists has earned his respect by leveling service to poll with the so-called col c. took on. hitler demanded that paris suffer the same fate. but fun call to ignore what his order is by then he had decided that hitler was insane. some reports say that hitler phoned the general in a rage and screamed is paris burning. menotti writes about the battles between resistance fighters and german troops in the final days of the occupation. hundreds were killed in the fighting. uncultured surrendered his troops on august twenty fifth.
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later that day general shoulder gold arrived in paris as the leader of the provisional government of the french republic. the german up. of the french capital . local residents celebrated. they also started punishing alleged. french women who had fashioned with german soldiers but publicly humiliated this was the beginning of a partial rewriting of the history of the war but the nazi refuses to accept this interpretation. it's scapegoat politics so many things happened it's time to come clean. in any case war has always been waged on the bodies of women.
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when you conquer a country you rape the women. in order to liberate the country you shave the heads of women. or may not have slept with germans. such uncivilized things didn't happen in the upper echelons. so. it was a way to deal with the horror of the war. create a morally superior version of the past the. crime novels because they represent my dark view of the world the war and the period of collaboration are perfectly suited for crime novels. that. there's more the pressure increased bit by bit more success means more pressure and
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you grow into it and buxom it up to the office and i'm glad that my first novel babylon berlin wasn't immediately a huge success i'm going to have otherwise i would have had to keep chasing that success and even under bush going to cross did that his whole life because of the tin drum. it was kind of tragic. luckily i didn't suffer the same fate though i'll never win a nobel prize. this is. the one of the earliest forms of writing ever oh this is about five thousand years b.c. . and these little marks on it were written by. an architect and these things used to these to put them in little holes in the bill in the building that they'd made it was a description of who the architect was and it was like a little autobiography or a little. like a little brass plaque on
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a wall. that's right. you know i think it's good to have a really early writing in front of you when when you're doing this because it just reminds you that really. it's the anything if you that will maybe last. half. so much money and. i'm going out. my character meeting me would be a pretty horrific experience he'd almost certainly hate me. because every and his life you know he would have had a good life for me this is the ambivalent relationship rices have with their
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characters because they knew in their bones inside themselves they knew their character would hate them. and mine would certainly hate me. instead as a father said i don't ask you ask yourself what would i have done back then and but you don't have an answer with your life you can come close to announce that through the novels through the situations that your characters get themselves into through their actions and development and make long. the untaught you'll probably never find an onsite and. this is a maybe so not necessary. but it's good if some readers think about it it's all on his own and ask themselves the same questions that we do to them you know what would i have done back then i said it and i was going left well i don't leave the best way to understand writers is through their books make this meeting was very nice but the book reveals all that let's see the evil.
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