story this hour campaign for italy's general action has entered its final day this after thousands turned out to protest the extreme right wing parties and wrapped up its campaign with a rally in the capital. this is the interview news live from berlin i'm brian thomas sumi will be with you at the top of the hour for the next program for me though in the entire news team thanks so much to. the. stories that people the world over information they provide the opinions they want to read stressed g.w. on facebook and twitter are up to date and in touch follow us.

it said he always has his finger on the nuclear button locked in a high stakes poker game with the u.s. we will have no choice but to totally destroy north korea. but does kim jong own really have nuclear warheads and the missiles to deliver them some experts don't think he does at least not yet. there are no real plugs this would vibrate it looks like it's from the local hardware store. he's not negotiating until he has his full full nuclear deterrence and the world knows a. fool .

it's early in the morning and we're heading to a depot for decommissioned rockets. i'm accompanied by an arms and security expert marcos. he studied north korea's bomb and missile tests though he's never visited the country. i've been there several times as a reporter. all i ever saw of its allegedly combat ready army were trucks powered by wood gas. this is footage shot in secret of a starving in tavor is to land. here in the fog schiller is sure we'll find rockets just like the ones north korea as we

are in fact in ukraine and driving to an old soviet military base near odessa. schiller does not believe north korea has the capability to develop missiles by itself or at high speed. any explanation in my view is that they have received help if it is easier if you buy stuff than if you build it all yourself. miss rocket looks familiar to sure. there's an official focus is a solid propellant rocket you know how surprising that north korea suddenly had some that whacked. he's going to compare what we found at this depot to photos from north korea this is a turbopump a key component in any rocket. fuel and at the cost in chamber of the rocket engine for the tanks it's like fuel injection for the us we have what's possible. such

advanced metals technology is not something any country could develop overnight. back at the airport in odessa schiller compares his photos with propaganda material from north korea. since we have a kid on the left a rocket indiana that was twenty twelve if you see how similar the color is the white band around the nodes and another one of the rear on the motor column. of the part is in of the head at the range we see the shape quite clearly yes it is identical this is clearly the same model. and that russian turbopump also reappears in p.r. pictures with came from twenty sixteen and twenty seventeen. the system to accompany this is the turbopump we just saw. a look at the exhaust outlet and then look at this one on the engine and he didn't even go look surprisingly similar they have the same shape and it ties into the floor.

kim jong un may boast about the capabilities of his homemade rockets but are they really up to snuff or is he putting on a show to intimidate the united states long range ballistic missiles capable of hitting the us mainland. german aerospace engineer professor. is convinced kim is bluffing he's based in munich he was a u.n. weapons inspector in iraq and he used to design rockets himself with the a gun on me right there with us is so good schiller have worked together on analyzing north korea's missile program they conclude that kim jong on must have received considerable help from abroad. in particular from the former soviet union . piece is deep is in the see this engine was built in the one nine hundred seventy

s. then came disarmament and they were decommissioned. in ming and that means lots of these engines are lying around somewhere in depots and if a dozen or two go missing who's going to notice that's. simply copying a design he says is not an option because if you think the engines are extremely complex that scene inside it's three thousand degrees kelvin that's almost as hard as the sun. and the pressure is a man's plus the engines have to be very light made of thin sheet metal to get all that right takes a long time and a lot of practice. to be. what about the submarine launched ballistic missiles north korea claims to have developed the evidence is not convincing on some photos they have rather flaps on others they don't hear entire sections are

missing. but kim really observed the first launch from such close quarters is unthinkable. ten tons of solid fuel flying out of the water if it had exploded kinship would have been totally destroyed. huge missiles are regularly on display at military parades in pyongyang our experts say they're fakes amateurish fakes says he and they want to show off how much they've got but it's just cobbled together smoke and mirrors. how are there examples of the very same model of missile looks different. if you compare the same spot on the one missile the gap between the fins is much greater than on the other. this one has a trap the other doesn't. there so badly made you really have to feel sorry for them. i had to south korea to discuss the matter with

the experts there they also think the north's nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles program is more blood than substance. the south korean capital seoul is just fifty kilometers from the border within reach of conventional artillery. from the north twenty five million people live in the metropolitan area. the last time north korea reversed a large scale attack was in spring two thousand and seventeen kim jong un was there to watch. his great enemy the united states has close to thirty thousand servicemen and women stationed in south korea. and so on i go to see chad o'carroll he's a security analyst and journalist and runs the n.k. news website he says it would be wrong to underestimate north korea's military

capabilities. we're in for the buff theory from a u.s. military perspective the department offense has to take seriously any risk that a missile and reach the east or west coast of the united states and we're now basically at that point so even if it's a one in five chance that twenty million people can die what is you know what does that really mean we have to take that seriously. o'carroll agrees that north korea receives assistance from abroad he shows me satellite images of a recent military parade in pyongyang. to the left of the crowd or a row of missiles on trucks he says many of the transporters were imported from china and there are more of them than previously believed. ok we can see about two or one or two kilometers away from kim il sung's square where the viewing took place pipes and there is one spare units of every

missile type tank you name it. japan is evidently the source for other equipment such as special cranes heavy crane in these fights which come from north korean state media you can see the crane is actually being used to do lift the missile from the assembly line onto the transporter erector one shot and it's just they i did it in full twenty seventeen way and there is so much scrutiny on north korea special weapons programs it's very difficult to sort of understand that. it looks like united nations sanctions on north korea including an extensive trade embargo are not being fully implemented we drive along the hundred or towards it's esther wary to look across at north korea.

nearby is the joint security area on one jump the only spot on the border where soldiers from the two koreas come face to face. in january delegations from the north and south met here. for such a handshake a rare stunning event. this is the north making nice. but last december it showed its cruel face at the same spot. a north korean soldier defected and came under fire from the north even after he had crossed into the south. that was a violation of the korean honest disagreement he was rescued by south korean soldiers and flown down

a special is since recovered from his wounds. while the border between the two koreas is closed the one between the north and china is open . this is the chinese city of dun dun. and this is the view across the yalu river to north korea the friendship bridge links the two countries and is a major conduit for goods going in both directions. i mean we have a couple sources in downtown as well this is a convoy of trucks going through the chinese customs house just before they cross the friendship bridge but you can see that the share amount of cob varies you would need an army people to be coming here and things and the current u.n. sanctions ostensibly require all of this to be very thorough he said just to ensure it is night and materials that may breach sanctions but on

a good day you might have two three hundred of these kind of trucks passing the bridge. and each one of them you know maybe forty tons that's the it's a lot of stuff. but. these aren't north korean weapons but those of south korea and the united states. they regularly conduct joint maneuvers in the south which regularly rile kim jong on his enemies flexing their muscles all the more reason he feels he needs nuclear weapons to defend his country and himself who would want to end up like those other dictators saddam hussein and iraq and wal-mart gadhafi and libya first year burns for the korean war ended in one nine hundred fifty three but a peace treaty has yet to be signed u.s. bombing devastated the north people there have not forgotten while relations between the two koreas have been mainly tens there have also been episodes of

engagement and determined. in two thousand south korean president kim dae joel visited pyongyang to meet north korean leader kim jong il the father of kim jong un . kim de jong received the nobel peace prize for his efforts to promote peace and reconciliation. an architect of his sunshine policy of reconciliation was join me and moon there was a time when north korea and the united states even talked to each other was that possible very simple ok when i would there was a train the circumstances unites to the united states listen to what north koreans would say ok and they didn't deny north korea they treat north korea is a normal count and leadership commitment was another important that and he was a very effective in the communication channels. says things might not be so bad now

if the current us administration were willing to negotiate instead the us president derides and threatens kim jong on. rocket man is on a suicide mission for himself and for his regime those kinds of so-called hostile rhetorics could be very very counter productive and honestly he has been only baiting can do instead has to he stares. tells us he remains committed to dialogue even though he too has been the target of verbal attacks from north korea. that not might not. make the north koreans and they told the north koreans ok ok i came here the dog american imperialist here how the hell do you can you can criticize me in that way i've been walking meet you we've all my heart and i made

a big shouting at the north koreans and head of the north korean delegation told me did. mr moon to provoke handle the situation and how what organisation to put them and to be united front we have a different view what propaganda propaganda don't be detracted don't be disturbed by to propaganda. it's almost like. you are outsiders it's even harder to distinguish between propaganda and policy reliable information about the kim dynasty which has ruled north korea for three generations now is also hard to come by. the current leader kim jong un has seen more of the outside world than one might imagine. we are heading to a suburb of burn in switzerland to meet a teacher. in the late ninety's there was a north korean boy in his seventh grade class. it

was said he was the son of somebody who worked at the embassy. is to stand. he was introduced as own pocket for me he was just a regular boy he spoke a german we were able to communicate like sporty clothes basketball attire n.b.a. gear bosc and i think he was one of the first people i knew who had an m p three player. a small i named peter i played. years later facial analysis concluded with ninety five percent certainty that the boy really was kim agrees and says he was confident but not brash despite the expensive gear. and pressures like that cost

a hundred francs the night the trousers to the nike air trainers three hundred and he had lots of pairs i was a show off and i know he didn't fly on it he did not try to be anything special. i found him to be a well adjusted young man with mine you see. while the young kim jong un enjoyed his ninety's in switzerland starvation was killing countless children back home crop failure many fish and agriculture economic mismanagement but the regime always blamed its arch enemy the united states. in two thousand and one came jones' oldest half brother kim jong nam was arrested. the tokyo airport trying to enter japan on a fake dominican republic passport he said he wanted to visit disneyland. in the one nine hundred seventy s. and eighty's north korea abducted

a number of children and young adults from japan so they could teach japanese to it spies decades later a few were allowed to return home. in two thousand and two north korea finally revealed what it had done people in japan were aghast journey to a cause rumi was prime minister of japan at the time he and his diplomats had persuaded north korea to make that admission and to apologize as a precondition for moves to start normalizing bilateral relations. but laying the groundwork took a lot of preparation this process highlighted the tricky moral issues involved in dealing with despots itoshi to knock out a senior advisor to koizumi held many secret talks with the north to have all been seen five to thirteen times. new and.

newish ational time took place in the weekends there are a couple of gifts me that one is the trip by the japanese prime minister to north korea. because in the eyes of kim jong il. the getting japanese prime minister to come to north korea itself is kind of a big story to tell to the people here we are the former. prime minister came to this country to apologize for north korea. the regime said that five of those abducted were still alive and they would be allowed to visit japan without issue seemingly resolved to signed a joint declaration relations looked like they might be on the mend. premises immediately we would like to see the. survivors so.

that sort of meeting did take place. we had to see them so we beat that is a key element for us. trust trust me it's difficult to verify. anything because it's a secret mission and it's not the most graphic mission therefore there is no accountability those five survivors remained in japan north korea said they had to be sent back and accused the japanese government of breaking its promise charges that you broke a promise no i said. you're kidding because also our job is who up ducted well knew how could you sort of. decide the fate of the people. another act of terror any

given the estranged half brother was evidently considered a threat so kim jong un had him murdered with few doubt it was used during the attack took place in public at kuala lumpur airport. kim jong nam was about to fly to macau where he was living in exile he was caught on surveillance video just minutes before he died. in the malaysian authorities won't talk about the case all requests for interviews with investigators and other officials were rejected but we did find a journalist willing to discuss it. i get a phone call from my contact with the police force saying we just figured this out it was this sort of it especially as this visual poisoning attempt it a budget at work and b s you'll get that i was softly it is

a lot and he's the son of. kim jong il right kingery as i already yeah he's a half brother gift of us you know what happened so we don't look like he was price it right every thought a fair bit of money one hundred fifty thousand u.s.d. it was bag. investigators determined that two young women one from vietnam and the other from indonesia had each smeared something on kim jong space the components of a chemical weapon the b.x. nerve agent. this too it would be small that even dave read off. the stage get a traditional dad a ball next to the budget for he said he wasn't feeling well he will see it is something it took him to clean it that it took a basically five sheet you say to keep it we get to use it a hospital and he died they were for fifty a college so who would have to live it was. the first account was that this true was actually his people one was he's made the decision was made the vietnamese lady

was his girlfriend and it changed they did not he did not know who he was. and but they would they were hired to do this police identified further suspects men with ties to the north korean embassy. north korea responded by detaining malaysian nationals in pyongyang as hostages so they could do a prisoner swap. he wanted to arrest them because they did not have diplomatic status. idea what happened was that a standoff between the malaysian government and the north was the impression from outside is that there's a country there was a case they were doing an excellent job investigating arresting and then they led the ones go that were to be charged actually they were let go they be let go if i really were clearly the deal but they would not go in exchange for the night missions from back because we have such

a special relationship with direct flights we could go there with the visas they could come here with a visa. it was such a special relationship effect up to last year we had offloaded what this booking alcool minds of the border you're right that yeah doesn't because we're good because we dropped the ball here but you know in the scheme of all the things people talk about leisure corruption. treasure scandals political intrigue is here is this one. machinations coercion shady dealings north korea is skilled in getting its way not only in malaysia not only to murder fugitive rivals. at the united nations a panel of experts oversees the regime of sank. it was imposed on north korea.

they're familiar with the long reach of the cameras. caught so he's a photo coward is one of those monitors he tells us how the trade embargo is undermined. i only see loop holes my question was rather where i closed the holes. which was so few compared to the number of loopholes loopholes exist in only china but also all washer. taiwan south east asia they have also all parties in europe one example of arms control busting launchers for north korean ballistic missiles are based on trucks manufactured in china key. portion was imported from china in two thousand and eleven and that's a side of the only transfer all six meet girls have been confirmed by the united nations they had

a career. in the the scientific set if occasions which show that weaknesses in the fleet only fall for three if. off road trucks for use in the logging industry are not covered by sanctions so was this a willfully misleading declaration they were used in china for military purposes now so take somebody. asked why more serious do diligence which they don't have a problem even care maybe even may want to be in d.c. with a solo that they can make excuse that they can't make money out of north korea. i didn't ask the power to stop this well that's a question that well i don't i'm sure does a stuff because you've been part of spotted you see shit and the chinese government

is significant the biased. the crucially when it comes to your faction it's you know union resolutions who are just down the united nations in china should watch with a foreign ministry only and therefore beastly if not even. their founding fusco of the union resolutions could be so complex in my discussion with chinese called the press i always get the impression that they don't get. a deep understanding of the resolutions which they agreed. perhaps they chose not to understand but it's not only china did aids and abets north korea in its missile program in two thousand and twelve the south korean navy recovered from the sea what was left of a missile north korea had launched it contained parts from many different countries

cobbled together by hand. to fourteen kinds of foreign soil started to enjoy a fall from the rockets and most items of my fashion to overtake from united kingdom former soviet union sits. us south korea so all countries which would reach it exposed to regular. what if it did but that could be a bit of a speech or whatever oh yes and that's a key component that's a key while robot smoker is pretty certain that north korea is not in fact making much headway in developing its own ballistic missiles for a cow is not so sure it's three hundred craft. you see gluth. that the she. was to some it was the sockets. by by had

using the blue so. it's not beautiful it doesn't seem to be. serial productions but that's ok for this career they will use the same basis to manufacture while missiles and as a missile. at the united nations the current us administration has called for a total embargo of north korea total isolation to bring it to heel. we call on all nations to cut off all ties with north korea in addition to fully implementing all un sanctions all countries should sever diplomatic relations with north korea and limit military scientific technical or commercial cooperation.

that ultra hardline approach is met with little support internationally or within the us evelyn farkas is a security expert and served in the defense department under barack obama. i disagree with that i mean anything to maintain the dialogue keep the conversation going i think would be useful now i will say in defense of the diplomats what i'm hearing from them in private conversations is that the north koreans do not want to talk to our diplomats they're not interested in negotiating and again i think this is because kim jong un has decided he's not negotiating until he has his full full nuclear deterrence and the world knows it. the federal republic of germany has had diplomatic relations with north korea since two thousand one. hundred foreign minister not go former helped establish that. chancellor at the time was. this the situation is dire. security is

not guaranteed there will be more families. and i agree with our foreign minister on a stablish in ties it is the minister still has to work out the technical details that might take the decision has been taken but. what happened next proved to be a disappointment for. north korea did not open up to the world it wanted gifts. of. a months later another delegation came. they told us what they wanted a steel plant. there. they said we should give them one but the company had recently closed that. i had to explain at considerable length that the german government does not have the right

to seize private property and give it to somebody else so for. the fun. i told them they would have to negotiate us and there would be money to pay. they didn't like the idea and said this isn't what a true friendship looks like not the way they see it they were rather dismayed and then they left again. the country wants more than steel plants these two north koreans visiting a dingy cellar in ukraine in two thousand and eleven thought they were stealing plans for advanced missile technology. they were fake it was a sting operation by ukrainian counterintelligence the two had posed as members of a trade delegation they were found guilty of espionage by ukrainian court and are still in prison.

north korea has leased part of its embassy in berlin to a hostile but un sanctions ban commercial operations on its embassies just started over hard currency revenue. what's more the embassy has been used as a base for espionage and the procurement of much. in this and we have to assume that north korea has acquired parts for its missile program on various markets and via shell companies and proxies in foreign countries. and that it has done so in germany as well. i started you rule also said north korea is currently engaged in such procurement activities that its embassy in berlin. and i was she said no we cannot rule that out if we become aware of such activities we hold them which we cannot guarantee that we hear about and prevent all such transactions in. the united nations monitors are also concerned they have asked the

german authorities about north korea's activities here. we asked future government for information more of what technologies will screw us for seeking for but we never got any reply from german government or the united nations the german government for information and they didn't get an answer. quite often because it was fifty germany so almost a key key fish. i need a good life. mr ford a coward to write all this down for us so we could bring the matter up with the head of germany's domestic intelligence service i asked mr marson about germany's cooperation with the u.n. regarding north korea.

i cannot answer your question because i know nothing about this. we do as a rule reply to all inquiries we received by the foreign ministry. but i can provide no information on this particular matter. and prepare first. as has been said such inquiries are on set as a rule but that's a huge allegation it is indeed an allegation but from my perspective i would not say it is a serious one because i presume that if it were the president himself would have been approached or i would have been approached by the foreign ministry. and i haven't heard that that has happened. does not amount to a clear denial the suspicion remains that germany has failed to support un monitors the way it should now. it's not just small parts that have made their way into kim jong un's missiles

things all kinds of goods under north korea by road being done don't. we know that get delivered the question is what does it say on the paperwork for the missile components were sent to libya that were declared as water purification equipment. to north korea the volume of deliveries is not great we're not talking about large numbers of. your. photos kim jong un poses besides impressive looking hardware other missiles are real and are they dangerous but i wouldn't store things that way why not. just stand something like that on the floor piece of precision engineering on a concrete floor beneath a special cradle. is this a real functional nuclear warhead ready to mount on

a missile. to quote shelf this mitnick cables look odd this would vibrate and scream during flight. these are proper sockets it's all very suspect it looks like it comes from a local hardware store was with us from. slotted screws and hex screws the whole thing really is a bit weird with this kind of kick. and the chart carefully placed on the wall behind showing the warhead in the missiles nose gone. as it proves nothing. of you can't go from zero to a fully functioning missile and you could actually fire if i was in this business long enough to know you just can't do it that's the heat. if it is right then its weapons program is not currently as dangerous as north korea would have us believe but is he right what do other experts say how should the international

community deal with kim. north korea state me bluffing that's for sure. they say that they have. mustered a high dalton bomb. that can be loaded on to the i.c.b.m. which may not be correct we don't know what we know for sure they have successfully completed and you can test with if the made to feel that one hundred sixty killed toss which we have never seen before as a meter lies one lot we don't know so for. i'm not convinced they have sufficient cable with the full me joy division but it's a matter of time i'm an optimist in their fight believe that there would be and should be a negotiated outcome through diplomacy but no other options sanctions and precious

will have been here in imitations military actions south korea will strongly oppose it china russia will or simple or pose in a military sanction ok and whatever else regime change. it won't be easy then the all you way to resolve north korean nuclear problem the dialogue will negotiation of of course it will take much longer time but still lies in the united states ok show some science know all the branch to north korea even despite their kind of domestic challenges that kim jong un will bite american off of we don't want a war where we don't want north korea. don't want to in order to do that is there any other to be patient renegotiated to be. poor and we exert pressure and to invite china to

be more serious the best case scenario would be they don't have a full program they freeze it or they have a full capability that's probably not realistic though and so that's why i say realistically they have a nuclear weapons program capability they have the deterrence against the united states and our allies and so we just implement you know mutual assured destruction might we have with china russia cetera the north korean government is not going to use nuclear weapons against any country in the world unless it thinks that its existence is at stake meaning there is an impending invasion. unless it responds to a false alarm such as the one you know why in january that would be enough to trigger disaster. at the former soviet base in ukraine staff tells us about such a terrifying incident the intelligence had once reported the launch of and i mean

nuclear missile. through our interpreter a lina tells us that there were always two soldiers on duty here thirty five meters underground at the ready to launch a nuclear counterstrike. they had twenty seconds to decide whether to do so or not always and thank you for being two switches at the same time they would send off eight nuclear missiles each targeting a major western city. with. more blow. and the world is talking once again about the risk of nuclear war

i mean can you imagine if you talk about a new nuclear war to start with tells me he doesn't think it will come to that it goes everybody knows that would be catastrophic but he is not so sanguine. because no one knows what they will do next. and. among the oscar nominees lee's europeans have the best chance. in the category best actor in a leading role of a british actors daniel day lewis and gary oldman in. our film expert scott ross perot says both have very good chance it's. just cross. for europe our

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challenges. the seventy seven percent of. platforms for service charge. the c.w. news live from a final day of campaigning in italy ahead of the general election on sunday a divisive debate over migration dominates the vote and could pave the way for the stunning comeback of the former prime minister silvio berlusconi. also coming up a shaky daily truce goes into effect for a fourth day in syria eastern kuttab an agonizing why.