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tv   Quadriga - Macron Or Merkel Whos Leading Europe  Deutsche Welle  April 27, 2018 2:30pm-3:01pm CEST

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the dangerous battle for images five women. find exceptional stories. one calling more photography dramatic pictures from the frontlines capturing faithful moments in time and even risking death. she gave her life to other stories of people who ended up killing. women or photographers starting may third on g.w. . a lot of very well welcome to portray good coming to you from the hearts of now for many years angle america has been the key figure in european politics the european leaders some commentators have even called her the leader of the free world but there's a new contender for the leadership role french president tomorrow mccraw has just
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completed a state visit to washington the first foreign visitor to receive such an honor since donald trump took office and he rocked congress with a speech in which he defiantly challenge president trump's position on climate change free trade and the iran nuclear deal so is mccraw about to eclipse angela merkel both in europe and international. oh medical who's leading europe that's a question on quadriga this week and to discuss that question i'm joined here in the studio by matthew carney chief europe correspondent for politico matthew argues that mccall wants to leave europe but com could leave europe but one of. those there with us is plus got a view she is both an old time to journalist for the french magazine the plan and she argues that i'm going to medical used to be cold the queen of europe now in monaco mccall seems to be the new king and the woman through to the coast in
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galilee who's based here in berlin reporting for those who died so i too she senses in germany's interest to support france not just in its efforts to reform europe but also in transatlantic reach thank you all three for being here with me today here on whether you can muster up let's begin with you just so given you know i've just pointed out that your quotes at the top of the show says that emanuel mccrone wants to lead but calm yeah i think we don't that quote from you before this address that he gave to congress if you changed your mind since you heard the address no no no i haven't i think the problem that he has is that france is just not strong enough alone to take a leadership role in europe to take the kind of steps in europe that he really wants to pursue i mean he has the image he has the energy certainly but without a strong endorsement from germany it's going to be impossible for him to take things forward and i think this is the real frustration in france now that they're not getting enough support in paris from the germans and it's really not clear
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whether that's going to change and at the moment it looks like you know the time is just running out in on these really crucial issues involving the eurozone reforms and these steps that they want to take to integrate the euro zone more and to make it crisis proof as they say every step is so controversial in germany that it's very hard to see how europe is going to take this great leap forward that. micron's been talking about ok we're talking about the tug of war between france and germany shortly kodos let's just bring you in and get an impression you were you're a french representative you're on the panel today what's what was your first impressions of this this all day shifts address from your president and in washington where i think a lot of people who were quite critical in france always this president who's sort of dancing around with these controversial and difficult american presidents and i think the talk in the congress has changed the view a little bit because he was critical he addressed difficult points and he's not
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simply the puppets. of the you know trump and so it's changed the balance and and added credibility to to my corn farms interesting most custom yeah but you know it proved actually what you know and the american has been in the leadership now photography yes that's true but she has never been a good speaker so it and given that michael has really it's talent to try to give speeches that are really going around divert like actually like obama was able to be it was reminiscent of what you see you know i used the word or very fast rex actually that that what came into my mind to obama could and blessed the world by robots and also my kong and that and my colleagues various want to use are going in the dialectic way so i mean so he can say on the one hand i i. my partner and a transatlantic relationship but i'm on the other end very quickly critical so when you say he's really is you you know he's operating in
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a dialectic where you mean he's being very cunning yeah exactly that is what. i want to say and now i mean your staff for three days and now it's coming for three hours and you see already the difference but. to balance that a bit i would say and what i said also in my in my statement and of course after winning the election in france my call was. kind of leader of your already because here he made sure that your view not take be taken over by the by le pen and others from there formed a wide spectrum and everybody else in germany was very happy but you saw already at this time that in germany there was this electoral campaign and it was not really a big big want to a european idea as it was not and now we have a detector and equalization to be a diverse chapter is about europe but the man who necco she added that chapter into the coalition treaty of mr schwartz a former s.p.d.
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you knew that now he is tired let's say we're tired he's not there anymore and nobody is actually taking now to step two or put it into reality i mean my call is for the moment he is in there and leading position for you or ok we'll go already mentioned after a very public shows of warmth and affection for the president trump in the first part of his visit to washington mccrone delivered a remarkable speech in congress in the address he spoke without his vision of global leadership challenging many of donald trump's positions not least his determination to put america first and shun internationalism let's listen and we can choose isolationism withdrawal and nationalism this is an option it can be tempting to us as a temporary remember if to all fields but closing the door to the word will not
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stop the evolution of the word it will not dollars but inflame the fruits of our citizens we have to keep our eyes wide open to the new risks right in front of us. was it dialectic was it covering i don't know what i mean my question is because that was it was it a deliberate strategy you know did he first of all give. it to the american president and then stab him in the back now first he's building a bridge and then you know i let's put that picture i would prefer to picture that mccaw is building a bridge towards trump and then he invites him to go to come over to put and now it's up to trump whether you would like to do that or not i mean he was very clear mccall in his speech saying that the times atlantic partnership it's a very big issue and they like it is but as he said we have to open our eyes
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widely and we have to work together not against each other i mean this was. i think i will as i go back to my office i think he was addressing two different audiences with the speech and with his treatment of trump and sort of the padding and the hugging of trump he was obviously trying to reach trump and that probably didn't play as well back home but i thought it was some sense and it was well i think there was a look there was a little bit of a. you know cut if you will between his treatment of trump and the pictures and the speech i mean the speech was you know in parts was was was fairly harsh but i think that the speech was more directed at his home audience and so that he didn't lose credibility with them but he doesn't look like you know trump's towel boy that he's just standing there being being you know nice to him and and grinning along with everything that he does and i think that it's a it's
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a difficult it's difficult trick to pull off and he seems to a political fight i think you know the proof is in the pudding as as they say and we'll see what trump does in the coming weeks because all of this will only matter if trump does what europeans want him to do which is to not impose the plan steel tariffs and to not withdraw from the iran deal and at this point it's very questionable that that he will will toe that line which is a one second at this peace speech one second only and your question off his t.v. show actually called the leader and him i mean he was the first person that spoke there in washington gave that speech has and i think that on to the question it's have actually unity my call now is to us and to us we're going to be in the same place at the same that too but it was if you destruction yeah let's go think he's very clever because it's difficult recently so eager money and complicated like donald trump you know when he was elected the whole western world went horrible and
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i mean you're not going to get him into into your boats and if you just show you know hora. so first invited him to paris last year up to the fourteenth of july celebration and reminded you know the strong code since the war but i mean the strong tradition and the history we have in common and now he's playing these yeah which is which was a comes very good in america all these pumps and circumstances and it's quite common it was it's no there's nothing bad about it and i think it's it's probably clever and better than mrs merkel who immediately after the election went as a as a protestant you know the daughter of pasta and started saying you know you have to respect democracy and of course you know trump was immediately restoring and he's going to be difficult for. me was he played the child i mean the bar is now very high for him and i think it's better to be soft and charming with such people then
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to forgive the raise the moral thing on the left in her eye to mecca was softer him i mean she can do much better and much more partisan i mean you know what we all know that angle america can be an incredibly charming and winning individual you know this you know i mean it's often must but it's a you know let's try and i know for many people i get sometimes when i was a much older like like trump for a woman like me she's a woman she's not the attractive and she's not very young and she's not even yeah exactly i think you know beyond these you know the sort of superficial qualities which you know i wouldn't i wouldn't doubt that plays a role in trump's mind there's also the fact that she is also the representative of the refugee policy in europe is you know which is trumps you know main domestic issues is the danger of his life on the danger of of of letting in refugees and so forth so i think she's also a symbol for trump and so it's just for that reason alone it's very difficult for
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him i think to have a good relationship with her because it would force him to disavow some of his core positions or to ignore relationships you could argue that emanuel micro is really the only european leader who has so far made an impression on donald trump the two men speak of each other as buddies and commentators have been calling it a bromance but just how far does the friendship go. the first meeting in may of twenty seventeen was that a handshake or over wrestling match by the way seem to have won over the unpredictable trump. later mccall invited the american president to be guest of honor at the busty de military parade with all the pomp and circumstance trumps craves. arriving in washington d.c. mccaw stepped up the flattery with a symbolic gift from a french far east where involved one american and french troops had fought the german side by side.
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it's a rather touchy feely bromance i like to. call and trouble is that a male friendship with political benefits. because they're trumping mccraw we've got thirty years apart we've got an intellectual got a t.v. junkie going to so good an internationalist i'm an isolationist what is the glue between the two explain it to us i mean and if yes yes i could see that i depict as they like to play to each other with the receipt other bit it's always as a small talk and the clue i think is said both what trump actually like so it's my call and what they also said both they are both outsiders not coming from guest have alicia meant to so it came into power by by an ex are they now a second center. and. they are both safe made man like
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tom always underlined on his own. and came from bank. position and they are both very powerful but they are both in bottles at this point it's not a must but i saw i saw one very recent survey of their level of dissatisfaction with the amount of oil mccraw in fronts at the moment it is now reached fifty eight percent according to one poll and we're sitting here talking about him as a prospective sort of european or global leader where i think the french when they're dissatisfied with my core they're not in such slide with his foreign policy or with his trip to america they're dissatisfied because he's trying to change france and to reform and we have these strikes the train strikes and students strikes and and the employees strikes i mean this is you know this is an inherent problem in france it's a country which is very very difficult to reform it's attached to privileges it's attached to tradition and he's very very he said he would do it he's doing it and i
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think he's very brave because you really break east he's doing that and you had not really big strikes i mean i saw already years ago really huge strikes in front and now what we see now it's really much oil i'd say i was surprised by. it's interesting matthew that you mentioned that france is again talking about relatively with the influence of merkel in mccrone of the relatively influence of france and germany you said that france is a smallish country on the on the global stage but france has three things that germany doesn't have it has a permanent seat on the un security council it has a nuclear arsenal and it has the capacity to take part in strikes as it did very recently against chemical weapons targets and in syria that's a very different bracket bright but i think the third point is really is really important to sort of the military capability of france writ large is something that germany doesn't have and in terms of potential u.s.
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partners for trump at the moment france is actually as a greater capability even even in the u.k. where the military has you know very very various issues. and you know the reality is that france has shown a willingness to engage in very difficult and dangerous military operations and that's something that that trump and that the military brass in in washington value and take very seriously so i think that this is another you know very important bargaining chip that that france has views of united states at the moment is something that merkel can't really offer and contrary actually even germany then it comes to germany and washington i've been down recently i mean for many people in the u.s. administration germany is a kind of an enemy like china boycotting economic human is an enemy like to try and off i set kind off because destinies so plas india and detroit bands and those already showing up and talking about trade an economy stuff like that and if it
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comes to two things like foreign policies or germany's often say ok just do it and good luck but not in my foot in it and that's also a big problem and what they see in washington and what makes it more difficult for macko to get. along this this trial so it did it didn't help her case i think when when she arrives in washington that germany didn't participate in the air strike in syria. well against this backdrop what about the european project which many commentary to say is in danger of falling apart that's why the man on the cross fervently believes that france and germany must work closely together to come up with fundamental reforms will it happen though well when the french and the german leaders met here in berlin recently the messages were distinctly mixed. they want to do is anything but romantic in mid april chancellor merkel took him on in the car to the construction site of the homework for him in berlin deliberately chosen
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to stand for europe as a construction site. because i had already presented his architectural vision months before a sovereign crisis proved you with common foreign defense and financial policies now he's awaiting merkel's response. possible i don't think it's a matter of are talking about one or the other instrument but of our being certain what objective we hope to achieve of our having one and the same political goal it's not of course the positions of france and germany always have different starting points i know we need to bring it and we need open debate and the ability to compromise in the end it complements. on their calls pragmatism and because vision directed at the same goal. the question do france and germany pascal have the same goal. on certain subjects yes i think in europe on the whole yes of course and it's very it's very clear for the drums as
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well how are these french german malta or is important and the germs and says it's i mean they know very well that in this difficult world in turmoil europe is very important but michael has made some very precise propositions and and on the finance you know the european budget the european financial mean minister and and they are the germans are i think the majority of the drums especially in the party of onto the method and it says it's better than talk about the conservatives they're very many many a lot of apprehension and a lot of people don't want that at all and so it's very difficult for michael because on the on the one hundred interesting on the one hand he's election was a triumph in germany everybody loved him because he's young he's clever and he went through this very good a little bit a detail of french system he can talk and i mean they're absolutely you know
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they're in love with him and the obama phenomenon you know bamma even yeah exactly maybe more because it comes from yeah anyway and then he makes proposals which the germans are very suspect about and they don't want to go as far as that it's too dangerous for the germs and merkel is again like in the in you know in the in the defense policy she is tight by parliament which is you know the french president has a lot of power he can decide everything on his own sense you know raids on syrian and decide about the european policy more or less on his own but the german council and it's a sign of democracy has to us the parliament and the parliament is not going to say yes to a european budget and to a european financial ok mostly what is going to happen next. is not very well certainly mention i would say we disagree with you i think the americans should you know could show more leadership you could show more. courage and really say we need to do this we need to do this this is important and here's why that is what has been missing in this debate as you say the germans really liked my call just like
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they like europe they like both in the abstract but when you get down to the details that's where it gets very complicated when you start talking about measures that might force germany to pay more of put more german resources at risk then all of a sudden you know the stop sign start going up and i think this has been a big frustration for the for the french in these discussions and the problem is is that the time is running out and at the e.u. level in the coming months there's sort of a mountain of things that need to get done from selecting a new e.c.b. president selecting a new commission president electing a new council president and so forth your bottom new parliament to completing the budget and they haven't even succeeded in completing the that the next budget under the current european commission and it doesn't look like they're going to so it's very difficult to see how this might call merkel dialogue is going to result in this great leap forward that we've been hearing about from call for the past couple
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of months has this also got something to do with the fact that mcchrystal is the is the new kid on the block effectively he's turned to anger methley says i need your help and and she i think it has more to do she suddenly looks like a spender knowing that she looks more to do that she's just unwilling to engage in this debate because she doesn't she knows he doesn't have no right for her own peace from her own people like much and they've made the mistake of not putting it at the top of the agenda in the election campaign it's at the top of the coalition agreement but in very vague language but they did not put it out there during the campaign and say this is what we're going to do in europe this is why we need to do it to explain to people and then they would have had a mandate they don't really have a popular mandate to do anything major in europe at the moment i would side to disagree because of course it was not an issue and do you mean election. campaign and it was pretty amazing find that that's true but actually america is now and whole fourth and i have. body sings and i think including her are from there in the stands to find a term so actually death could could lead to more freedom and liberty she should
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feel free to us to engage and to or try to put our because things and not only sinking in the small stuff and i would die that she's not drilling to do so i would really doubt that she's not drilling to go further and you're of this my calm but. dissing is she's not fighting for that and she does not have to support of her own party and i mean ok and then you can ask ok if she's not fighting to cannot have to support so at a certain point she strut starts fighting she should go out and give a speech and i like actually if you talk to people in the cancer council and ask them so what is the difference between my call and mother so days a slightly and. smiling is a smiling face the difference is that my cong gave speeches and america did not yet gave a speech so please i think she should feel free to go to university or somewhere
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and to give a big speech of our job and what she wants to do in europe because what we are missing still is her proposals for europe i mean my conk a mout and everybody is discussing this my composite and everybody now. looking forward to germany could go its mark all along but right doesn't come germany out of its own proposals so speech is difficult for merkel am i sure if i am in the ranji crisis you have this formula of the shaft and those will manage it the speech difficulty can do that and that's ok it's another style but you could bet on things like what am i just proposing here and that and the insights that's true if you want is no life on this you really european i mean she didn't she was great and you are here i think she is but she grew up in the europe she grew up in east germany she grew up she didn't she didn't grow up like something there and it's a very it's an emotional thing but it's. it's in the in the bones something like thirty years ago. ok i want to add that the time for speech is probably passed at
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this point and that's i think the challenge yes it is ok the question we have been addressing today most american who's leading in europe who who is sitting on the front seat of the famous tongue the ghost and for the moment sitting down in germany all wise to follow him to sit next to him. yeah i agree with that germany has we've the french have waited six seven months. to. take the take the. time. to time to i i don't think there really is a test and i think that that my call is sitting there trying to pull along and marshall this is dragging your feet and huge this is a huge problem and it's probably not going to change much but it thanks so much will through the ceiling is a day gregg debate so i hope the tomtom doesn't get a flat tire on that note thanks very much for joining us sir come back next week supporting actress fly by.
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players . this is c w news live from berlin and the leaders of the two koreas vowed to end their state of war and unprecedented summit yields pledges to scrap the nudes north's nuclear arsenal and bring the korean war to a formal and will deeds follow words will have complete coverage. also coming up another high profile visit aimed ever pairing relations german chancellor angela merkel arrives in the u.s. for talks with president donald trump will look ahead to a meeting that promises to be brief but far.


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