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tv   Quadriga - Germanys Refugee Row Can Merkel Survive  Deutsche Welle  June 22, 2018 10:30am-11:01am CEST

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a clash between those who believe in arranged marriage and those who want to marry for love. a clash that's shaking families and society to the core. my father will be angry sometimes i think i'm already dead. commando starts joining w. n n. cologne a very warm welcome indeed to quadriga coming to you from the heart of berlin and this week the focus is on german chancellor angela merkel who truly house her back to the wall everyone is asking how long can europe's longest serving leader cling onto office and with the latest ructions over germany's and europe's immigration
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policy is facing an ultimatum from her powerful interior minister also a whole first says bring back a european solution from the brussels summit at the end of the month or else he will go it's a look at issue a unilateral order for police to stop turning away refugees from germany's borders so a question here on quadriga germany's refugee rao cannot survive and to discuss that question i'm joined in the studio by three journalists who have all been following this story closely beginning with pascal t. ball berlin correspondent for audio france and send us your nada pascal believes that merkel's crisis will only bring france and germany closer together the struggling chancellor is dependent on support from the us also with us is alan posner a regular columnist for the berlin daily defendants he says once again magical has defeated an opponent by giving him just enough rope to hang himself whole see hope for. to talk but couldn't. find
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a very warm welcome to turn this into a bright head of the opinion section that's another burning paper. on the believes i'm going to put is a survivor because she is now at the mercy of europe's populists and i let me begin with you it's been described as the biggest crisis of the many years that is surely no exaggeration no it is not it is a very deep crisis though we have talked about crises far and i'm going i do you know he has always survived this show and i think she still has a chance to get out of this one decently i think there is the possibility for compromise but yet both macca and feel far in it with all they have with their very causes of political existence so i think it is very true giants in the late stages of their political careers. you write for the newspapers have said as
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a columnist but you've already had a piece that you've all all sort out a piece in the week to get in the guardian in the u.k. this week saying no one can deny that angela merkel's coalition is in trouble how deep is the trouble well. it is in trouble i know but i don't think the trouble is as deep as it's made out to be i think there's a you could say in a way that the whole fun playing good cop bad cop. bad cop good cop not good being the good cops you having the being the bad cop but essentially pulling on the same rope if you see if you see it i mean because well look firstly. talking about rope zero for gave me. an ultimatum to come around to his position or he would impose border controls unilaterally by last monday. monday came and went and nothing happened except that the over extended his ultimatum to two two weeks to
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get us the courage of his conviction he's yes he's already climbed down and he hasn't really said if you don't get what i want i will do that he has said he will be back. well people say that don't they he's climbed down he's proved it is really just a cuddly teddy bear and not a roaring lion horse as a whole for a cuddly teddy bear yeah he has that kind of look doesn't the sort of this sort of shambling. going to go is this a crisis about merkel's coalition government is it a crisis about i'm going to merkel or is it a crisis about the future of europe both i think there is a crisis in this coalition i think it is a crisis since in its birth that's my its birth that's my impression. because it was so difficult and it's quite it's quite obvious that they are going i think to struggle during four years if it's if this government last for four four years and it's a crest of course in europe because it's probably the it's the most important present
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since the financial an economical crisis and the end of the of the last decade. this time the victim could possibly be merkel we'll see if it's possible for it's almost it's incredible how much she has to solve in the next week on the next ten days if issue will in some governments in europe so it's. it's almost an impossible mission mission impossible you said this week you broke a lunch for and i'm going to read you said she deserves our respect just explain a little bit more why she deserves our respect. i think she is us finally giving in to being a populist party or at least performing populist strategies and that is pretending there still is a crises and pretending there still is an enormous pressure there is a crisis what crisis i mean the numbers are political yes yes now but it's not official crises because they have created it because the numbers of asylum seekers
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have been going down with the turkey deal and other measures strengthened in front takes in the mediterranean working with the libyan coast guard. the. refugees are actually pushed back behind the mediterranean soldiers mecca has created. time to discuss and find strategy with the european partners it's going to take time and now she's in a very bad position because now she has to find a solution within two weeks and i like the idea of them playing good cop bad cop but i think it's rather hurting her position to discuss and negotiate with the european partners which are very difficult as we know you don't buy this summer when i think you know if she goes if it goes to some european partners she doesn't have to go to the mall because you know the visit grad states basically part of the equation they don't take in a few days anyway they also don't have any outside borders as yes to basically deal
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with austria it's really france belgium and so on and and just. i lie and i lie and in my call on she has allies in belgium and holland and she can say to the italians look i've got this. fiery dragon breathing down my neck. help me and then they'll say ok how much are you going to pay to fork up some way to have to pay more because she's an enormous time pressure and we see that now with my call and they come in european budget that maybe she has to put in some more so he helps her keep the migrants that. they were when you say paper payments cash payments are we talking about payments from germany or payments from european union funds. you know i mean the payments are not in a literal sense with when when she comes to terms with italy or somebody else about taking the migrants back there might be payments involved help people are beginning to talk about this and you know if they're comparing it with i think she also said
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in the press conferences my call on tuesday as she spoke in a very light way about financial compensation is already like italy because we heard in the meantime the. interim minister in italy any doesn't want him. back and so maybe the way to let him accept them is to give him some money it could be probably a way on sunday in brussels to to achieve a compromise with a conference ok things have now certainly come to a head but the money mostly between anglo-american interior minister a whole city hall for that we've been talking about goes back a long way let's just get a glimpse of how acrimonious it is being. the rift between hundred american and horse to see hope for began to develop in twenty fifteen when the american government opened to germany's borders to one million refugees. we've done so much
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we could do this was only because this is a huge undertaking. which is now been exacerbated by this decision in china news spreads quickly around the world. bay tonight we can do this once and i can only repeat the system is collapsing. the dispute has now escalated which is a whole first demand to turn refugees away. that's what we think that as a country at the heart of your enemies and turning people back at our borders without consultation could lead to a negative domino effect that could hurt germany in the saga of our say that if there are no such effects i am determined to enforce intro that migrants must be turned back at our border since two records what does hosts a hall for really want stricter asylum laws or to topple the chancellor. stricter asylum laws or toppling the chancellor allenwood to what is horse a hole for really want neither no no no look he says. in your reports this is about
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turning my back at the border first it's not about turning certain groups of migrants back those who have applied for asylum in germany been turned down a and those have been registered in other countries both as we speak being turned back already and have been turned back for a long time this year alone sent back to to roll in austria the province of to rolly or seven hundred people who fall into this category we send back our bane ians in by the thousands because they don't have enough money with them or because their passport is not biometrically aligned with european laws this happens all the time so i demand this it's happening and it's going to go on happening it's all it's like when the big at the height of the refugee crisis when a million came in he said i demand. a limit of two hundred thousand refugees we now don't even have two hundred thousand refugees coming every year so he has this big
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sort of i'm demanding this but actually he's good he's more or less a cuddly bear you know its bark is much much worse than his bite tasco cuddly bear he may or may not be but he has delivered an ultimatum to the german chancellor what's going on here the minister albeit a senior minister is there is putting the gun to the head of the german chancellor and i'm being quoted as saying i can't work with that woman any longer what is going on. it's quite incredible especially in the german political me i would i would maybe. maybe we could hear such remarks maybe not of countries which are not social stable like germany so it's a bit surprising for some somebody coming from france but i think it shows also how difficult a relationship but we are we speak also about about symbols i think we have already arrayed heard about the figures i think zero four zero needs to show.
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stronger politics for me gratian but i think there is a lot of symbolic in is politics and also because of the situation in bavaria because of the elections in october and because of the concurrence of the right wing party has and. so i think. quite a lot is is also quite a lot of his political also a show but of course for the e-mail it churns a little resistance or you know if this was soccer people talk about soccer a lot these days people would be saying it's a grudge match their horse to zip over to me bears a grudge against angle americal from the way she behaved towards him and with him in twenty fifty well you know it's not just the cuddly bath you know you know lots of men bear grudges against america and up till now she's managed to serve off the sea off every single one of them. that you know there was a german there was
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a talian cowboy western movie which was called in german russian flag stands and vague bodies plaster his his path that america and the always going to be the next come on he's not going to get what he wants. but you here you're drawing right. if it's not the only one i wouldn't just cut it down to the makah. antagonism if the whole party that's behind and other people in the party like the last two and i like find a job and he said and they are pushing him they are pushing the poor cuddly bear to go after macro and sitting in bavaria munich and laughing their heads off so i suppose sense of generational change in conservative politics in germany and so for my money it's a process there's a new political culture emerging on the conservative side the german politics yeah i mean you can see it in the in the conservative in the very a but there's also
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groups within the christian democratic union pushing for more conservative politics and of course this has something to do with the right wing party we have and the buddhists talk they are very determined particularly don't bend and others to win back those votes from the fifty and they quote strauss all the time there should not be straws for the current leader who they should not be a party right off the christian democratic union or it's very in brant and that's what they are going after and i think they really believe that and i think they these voters belong to them and they want them back and of course there's something of a conservative revolution yes some have and i don't think their group i don't know if above area but within the christian democratic union i think this is a minority group there they're not that large and right now the party is still behind i'm going to back us we have seen in. in the meetings of the caucus at the
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oneness talk and other meetings there's still backing her. but yes there is the process of change and we see the face. is that are coming up like against bond for example who do want another the angry young man of conservative politics of the room thirty seven years old i think is if you have health minister yeah talks about his possible chance of a material in the future. let's go let's go our v are there right wing populists taking over in europe a sense of they've got the wind at their backs now yeah that's true we can see it in several countries in germany they are in the parliament as we have already heard they are did take part at the government in austria in italy. and they have also they have also had some successes in order countries so it's also
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assigned that probably the european idea he is not convincing the people and the national solutions are for more people in europe the better way to solve problems i think it's an error of course but that the very problematic solution and of course it's a big responsibility for our leaders to show it is possible to find your business but what but for the me gratian topic it is it is almost impossible i mean we have these we have these differences big differences between the western european countries and eastern european countries and we have also difficulties especially with italy with new government with the right with them and not willing to accept for example the mignons which because of the dublin agreement should go back to italy so. it's the national card if we can if we can
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use this expression is is play a very great role that nowadays incidentally i wonder allan what the. new right want. to quote from the c.s. use marcus earlier we've been talking a market sort of from from bavaria but very conservative he called this week for the all he described this is the end of the era of all the lee multi-lateralism translated and this is not just semantics that seems to mean to me that what he is propagating is the beginning of an era of on ordinary on orderly unilateral ism that is a whole sea change that is a move away from post war consensus liberal values based politics what i think he means meant though with difficult to say what i think he meant was within europe the idea that europe moves so to speak in lockstep it's obvious that that's
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not the case no one wants to join the eurozone anymore for instance because they see what happened to greece and in the young carians are leading a revolt against migration with the visit grad group of four who are meeting today i think to two with the austrians by the way to combine their policies to coordinate their anti immigration policies on the other hand as the if you will old e.u. but there again some differences so what markets what we're seeing is that instead of the e.u. deciding something. together you have different groups within the e.u. deciding things that is not disorderly unilateralism that is. slightly disorderly. four five six speed europe but it's it's still possible i mean that's the way it goes you're not going to get a united europe the way it was before we're not to the east that's not going to
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happen donald trump waded into the debate this way what do you make of that ana. well i you could see it as an attempt to destabilize germany and overthrow underly america i don't think it was that he tweeted it and i think it was largely. the major reason was the internal problems he has with a huge backlash against the policies of separating families at the mexican border so he has done it before and he has often pointed to europe as. for the illustration of failed migration policies done that pointing to sweden has done it to pointing to germany before and i think that's just covering his hard line which is there are serious voices here in europe who are saying look we've got this growing from the far right populist opinion across europe on one and you've got the mayor who's in it the other and you've got donald trump that looks like
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a threatening scenario for lilly livered liberals yes it is and i mean the american ambassador to germany has said he wants to promote conservative movements in germany and has pointed to quotes but it was very obvious from his wording that he was meaning the right wing populist to so this is there is an alignment between those groups i just something that's what trump hinted at with his tweet ok well earlier this week french president and german chancellor angela merkel met for talks in the german government guesthouse north of berlin commentators say that the two leaders are more dependent on each other than ever before need to merkel for his ambitious plans to press ahead with a more federal europe medical needs micro to come up with a plan european migration solution. do you still trust in the medical micro axis that they will defect save the liberal europe.
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we are. france and germany are two countries among twenty seven or twenty eighth or nineteen for the eurozone so it's much more difficult than it was in the past for these two to impose compromises and it's more difficult not only because of the number of the member states but also because of the divisions we have already talked about in the european union and in the eurozone but if there are no or if the if michael and merkel don't make proposals we'll make them so i think what they achieved in mezzeh bear is a compromise. more eurozone leaders especially with the with the budget for the zone it was a very important. symbol or measure for my queen not going to be
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a huge budget yeah we don't know exactly but probably had but we see and that's why of that was also we we didn't get given they didn't say how much these budget will be because because because it's there are still difficult to find a compromise between france and germany and now adays because of the migration problem merican needs more than in the past the support of france we have a situation between the two countries which was absolutely the contrary than it was fifteen fifteen months ago with a weak french bob fosse well along the way the with the two asian in which it was impossible more or less to have common proposals and now we have my call becoming more or less the leader of the integrated europe. the weak partner. who need in our days the support of france and of
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what's going to happen next in german politics you've got a pretty sort of strict timetable now we've got the brussels. coming up i'm not going to it's a make or break for summer so least what is being suggested what happens next. i i don't know what where as the whole file and tells me very are heading for i don't know how crazy they are whether they really want to push it too they don't want merkel out until they have an alternative i think there will be a compromise i think he would accept what she. negotiates by naturally with italy hopefully and others so both get what they want she will be able to turn away more people at the border she would have a european solution and i think that they will try to move on. exactly. as i say with. already lost is just a question of saving face. by the way if you saw them both yesterday there was this celebration of. or anniversary of about about refugees from german
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refugees from from the east and so on and they saw it on comfortably next to each other but this battle got enormous applause from the assembled political and cultural elite of germany and she has this behind her back and see who for is an outsider and he'll have to climb down. yeah i think also into the crystal ball. we will see if zero four is able to survive politically as a minister after the bavarian elections may be has to resign or not but i think also it is. symbolic for person but i think he's already more or less is an old older man and i think probably you will sometime leave the political scene in the world in. maybe with more time to play with the truth reigns in. his house at home another
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another film title from out of his evil for the walking dead. i noticed you talked in the guardian item that i quoted earlier you talked about what has the what there has been in germany you described as a wagnerian got to demba wrong friends if this were just sticking by the out because you know i mean we journalists we love sort of two to two to. the end of the world and great crisis and so on every time this happens there's a jump here and now finally the end of course some day is going to be the end of machall i mean she doesn't not going to see going to rain forever long to reign over us that's the british national british weapons and that's not ours but come on it's not today not tomorrow you're all free so sane and sensible i know social will say anyway there we talk about the british stay calm carry on that seems to be the message from quadriga this week we've been discussing these refugees and survived
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this is the w. news coming to you live from berlin medical on the retrieve the head of an emergency e.u. summit on migration the german chancellor withdraws a draft statement she hoped would clinch a swift migration deal all those objections from the italian prime minister. also coming up with turkey's election just days away the economy is weighing heavily on voters' minds we get a briefing from our correspondent in istanbul and also this hour we're heading to the world cup in russia where us.


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