tv Conflict Zone - Guest Juan Manuel Santos Deutsche Welle July 19, 2018 8:30am-9:01am CEST
or pursuing. the other woman got some clues to. life and death with the. starts july twenty first. violence is on the rise in colombia so is the drug trade so is corruption this wasn't the way it was meant to be my guest this week in the capital baghdad is the outgoing president the wrong man rustan's us who takes with women nobel peace prize for helping to end latin america's longest running insurgency but does he deserve it.
president santos welcome to conflicts or thank you he won a nobel peace prize for bringing an end to the fifty year old war with fuck you fuck rebels but your popularity in the country and the popularity that he still has sunk dramatically in recent months i think in february your proof will rating was down fourteen percent in the same month just seventeen percent said they were in favor of the agreement without a public by you're in real danger of losing this peace and change you know peace is irreversible there's no way back the agreements or their history would tell you something different you know the greens are there the greens have been. ratified by congress by the constitutional court and the people will not allow. the peace process to go back some people would like to bring the war back but that is something which will not happen and i'm very proud to say that i'm leaving
this country for the next government and next generations a country in peace with no fark but loud alarm bells ringing from the international community particularly from the un security council the high commissioner for human rights warning about a huge spike in violence and what's more high levels of resistance to the peace deal among those people who are needed to implement it that i'm talking about political and economic actors legislative and judicial bodies civil servants you can't do without these people have a certain you are that this peace process is on track you can't do without them and they make it work you know in congress. they just approved the last law that was necessary to put in place transitional justice the commanders of the fork in the last elections they voted for the first time in their
lives. now political leaders and not commanders of a group. the areas where they operated are now areas where investment is arriving and the peace process to be implemented according to the situation that was chosen to oversee the implementation at a very very satisfactory rate so things are moving of course the expectations of many people. are way beyond the capacity of any government to deliver in such a short amount of time which are severely underestimated the deep hostility of your people to the peace deal with the fight didn't before the referendum you went around saying to everybody you win by a landslide in twenty fifteen before the vote you said in a t.v. interview when i submit this to a plebiscite i'm absolutely convinced that people will be overwhelmingly in favor
of peace but they wouldn't at least not your piece i was wrong as you were wrong with that for example people also said there's no way that when. referendums are as or for reasons different from the particular question but the important thing is that the peace process and the agreements were renegotiated with the people who voted no ninety five percent of their suggestions and observations were taken into account we met you later that are putting back to that we really need a push it is really going to rest because the italy was not obliged the legal procedure in my country is that you go to the congress and congress by an overwhelming majority ratified and then the constitution record also by unanimity said these agreements become part of the constitution you made
a promise that if the people turned down you would walk away i remember seeing you said there's no plan b. there's no plan b. why did you break that. first of all through congress i resented putting it back to the people i never said i would walk away never i said i had no plan b. because i was quite sure that i was going to win but i never said that but you broke your word no i didn't what were did i break. you the people turned it down that would be the end of it never i never said that there is now though a public level of despair isn't taking root the headline a few days ago in l.t.m. poll was simply this how many more people must die. that's not a vote of confidence this is a process this is a problem that we have and i am the first one to. to be properly preoccupied with what is happening in many priest brushes this this this happens to different
criminal groups emerge after fifty four years of war we are addressing that problem we have a strategy this is the consequences of peace agreements and the transition to a more stable peace the un high commissioner for human rights blames your security forces for some of the violence there accused of eleven cases of extrajudicial executions in twenty seventy eight allegedly committed by the military three by the police are they out of control the security forces know the security forces fortunately are now the most respected institution in the country and if you go to any poll you will see that people respect our army respect our police because they learned that their legitimacy which is based on respect in the human rights of the people are of absolute importance and they are acting in that way and yet there are numerous allegations reaching the u.n.
that your forces and they are actually assisting the illegal narcotics trade specifically that they have been helping to transport material to produce a cane as well as machinery for illegal mining you know. what you're saying is absolutely not true there is this is from the office of the high commissioner for human high commissioner for human rights has not. signaled any member of the armed forces as being responsible right now for extra judicial. assassinations. they were they were before and i don't march i made a stop to that when i was minister of defense. today our armed forces fortunately enjoy the respect of the international community and the proof is that colombia is the only country in the whole of latin america that has been accepted
as a globe reporter in nato so you saying they're not assisting in the illegal drugs trade many women talk to say that high levels impure of impunity in cases of corruption in the past have encouraged the persistence of such practices might in the armed forces you might have individual people who might be. bought by the drug mafia but to say that the armed forces are out of control in that respect on the contrary if you go and see how much cocaine has been seized in the process of exposure of exporting to the markets where they consume bike europe or united states record levels never before had we. seen just more cocaine in the past two years less than three months ago the security council expressed serious concern for the continuing violence in conflict areas and code basically
a new government to get an urgent grip. but are you able to get an urgent that we've seen latest figures shows nineteen social leaders killed in a single month and capital region we've seen guerrilla warfare breaking out says a dramatic pictures and it again i thought i would repeat one more time but i just said to you this is a problem that we are addressing we are addressing it not only with our armed forces were addressing it with the united nations with your yes with the ngos with human rights organizations we are have a concrete plan we met just a few days ago of these actors to see how we could. do more to stop those killings they are kids that come from the drug traffickers who don't want the voluntary substitution of the coca crops to succeed because then the raw material will simply end others who don't want we're doing to give giving back to the
peasants so they're filling the vacuum are the fastest so we are sure we are addressing the problem. more than fifty percent of those murders have been solved by the attorney general you talked about the drug trade and you talked about what you've been doing but white house data from the last month shows that coca cultivation rose eleven percent and twenty seventy a level it said unseen in more than twenty years of record keeping donald trump said to you record growth in paying production must be reversed this was just last month and i said to him that eighty one percent increase in consumption the us is also an acceptable this is a problem that the world has. and it's a problem that the world has to address in a different way but what about your daughter that has it we're about you want we have for the first time for the first time
a concrete strategy. that will allow us to be effective in eradicating the cocoa plantations and substituting them for illegal crops for the first time never before because of the conflict had we done this had we been able to do this twenty one metric tons of cocaine in twenty seventeen almost twenty percent from the year before and today and this year and that's going to rocket action and this year we're going to eradicate one hundred ten thousand hectares forty thousand by one trace of pollution seventy thousand by force or education and that is how the whole production of more than half and we have we're seizing now this is what you're trying to do i'm talking about the whole creature results of what you've done so far so far not encouraging other so far and they are very encouraging because so far last year levels unseen in more than twenty years of regular last year that's and we are urging last year we. radically did more than
fifty thousand hectors this is not the simple number it's reality and we have said we seized more than five hundred tonnes of of cocaine being exported to the world markets that is not a fiction that is reality we are fighting a war that is being lost by the world we cannot be has been the most the country that has made the highest sacrifice in this war on drugs that the world declared forty five years ago and has not one but your refusing to accept your part you know we of course accept what we have it's a struggle that has cost us our best leaders our best journalists our best judges our best policeman and in corruption and in smite of that and some i don't that we are still the number one exporter of cocaine to the world market in spite of the tremendous effort was done why because the world has
a. wrong approach to the drug laws that was for just plain consumption you haven't you have a market here that works in the provides people with fantastically huge sums of money who consumes the cooking who your country around the world oh so it's and it's a growing responsibility it's your responsibility and my was my family so it's your as well of course as well but it's not us only and we have learned we have learned more than any other country how to fight the whole chain of the drug trafficking business and we would like to have more support and more court responsibility of the consuming countries let's talk about fuckin the assets that they were acquired in the peace deal two to hand over to you. they declared a derisory figure around three hundred and thirty two million in total assets this doesn't even represent a fraction of what they have from years of drug dealing kidnapping which is
a gold mine who says well you've already ready seized more than two hundred million worth of assets that they declare you know what you know what they say i mean like you know what they said they said that clark was had so much money that they were going to buy the elections and that they were going to take over the country that's what they said you know how many votes a got fifty thousand are you send you saying that they don't have huge sums abroad where are they using little you saying they don't have to tell me where are they we will go and see that you've already seen more than two hundred million dollars worth of assets that they didn't even declare so you know they've been lying where is haven't you where are those artists and i will go and see them you did you did you see too much already the klan because we have been effective in doing in going after their lives they like they might of course they might have lied they may get more have you heard of a deal and we are going after the their assets and we've you tell me that there is
a huge amount of money that they have. outside tell me where they are you have been making a mockery of the peace deal by not declaring these assets but if you tell me where they are i'm telling you the two hundred twenty discovered where two hundred million and so that's true there's a headline and it was there to prove that they have more. but it is actually going to leave doesn't it they've been if they've been lied they will lose their benefits what it what did they declare to assets like broomsticks aren't squeezes marks talcum power and gold and money and calculus full of arms this is a peace deal which is an example to the to the rest of the world there's a transitional justice system that for the first time has been. negotiated under the terms of study of rome this is something that is already working for the no impunity as has been the other peace process around the world where the international criminal court talking of the statute is leaning over your shoulder
and stressing the need for rigorous verification of the execution of sentences and so we're constantly remind the world. if they have been sentenced yet how can they claim the the rigorous because they're worried that people in communities is going to what but if each of us but this received justice is just starting is just starting how can you. claim that they have not been rigorously. complied with because they have just started nobody has condemned yet they've already expressed concerns about some of the language in your legislative act to zero one which they say could allow people in conditions in positions of command responsibility to escape their responsibilities who says that the i.c.c. so on sitting down they have they have said what is working out right now for us
it's ok it's. acceptable for the transitional justice that your pride is acceptable. there is no. so far any criticism of what has been. put. in place. i repeat is just starting to work well the deputy prosecutor earlier this year who visited said there were concerns of the parts of your legislation in the legislative body for the final. piece of legislation was approved in congress before he said that but this is maybe talking about this is may but in the final in the final. legislation that was approved. where was approved was something acceptable to all the parties involved you talked about no impunity in the deal with the fark but let's talk
about the cases of so-called false positives in your army where soldiers massacred innocent civilians and pretended they were terrorists or this in order to boost their results and take advantage of bonuses and rewards thousands thousands of the shameful flame thousands of dollars yes the government of colombia consistently played this down didn't disappointing from them and they told the un rapporteur in two thousand and nine the practice was not widespread and that such unlawful killings were isolated instances it's time that they lied and they weren't isolated you know who stopped those false positives i did. i stopped the first one they were taking later and you were defense minister well and that's why i took action and they went down to zero zero no more false positives and those responsible for false positives has they have to go to the transitional justice and be judged and condemned in two thousand and twelve two years into your presidency
un special rapporteur noted the persistent high rate of impunity for such human rights violations due to the lack of progress in criminal investigations so for years no one in government was in a hurry to see anybody in senior ranks i'm talking about above the level of colonel brought to justice work. right now we have many generals who have been investigated we are going to submit themselves to justice and you really think they're going to be convicted and the generals and of course they haven't been no because they have not started the process of the tribunal justice is just starting with the first general the first euro this week announce he's going to submit himself to terms with just there was glaring evidence over the years of that was supplied by the un who were concerned that in two thousand and eleven this is example of impunity in two thousand and eleven a year after you became president members of the military who had actually been
convicted of unlawful executions were still doing their previous jobs they were detained the setting conditions of considerable comfort in a military facility and were allowed unregulated movement outside the facility people are already being convicted of extra judicial killings they were convicted how can they be in exactly how can they live in comfortable conditions convicted they no longer belong to the to the military i mean how can you say that one of the other or some ten years this is impossible this is what the un said just four months ago the un high commissioner for human rights noted that high ranking officers. and the chain of command including some of those under investigation still actually being promoted in the last two years and instead of being subjected to a vetting process why is that. if they're under investigation. are they are they guilty before being judged to mean are they guilty no you think they might at
least. if there are suspicions you have presumption of innocence in your country secretly in my country also the presumption of innocence with a murder charge presumably you're not being investigated till proven guilty you're not being investigated for parking offenses you're being investigated you're not if you're investigated but you're not convicted until you're convicted before you're presumed innocent in your country or in any other country and in my country according to the i.c.c. since two thousand and twelve no one over the rank of colonel has so far been convicted you have figures from twenty sixteen two thousand cases investigated. four thousand one hundred ninety victims. over the figures these were the figures supplied by your thirty's what's true figure in this how many were killed by you or me dressed up as too many how many how many
have noida you have no legal resident but too many and i've been fighting that since i was minister of defense and i repeat to you the person responsible for stopping that noxious procedure was me when i changed the whole policy i took many generals out of the army and took action with the authorities with the true general and that's why they stopped mr president there are internal investigations and defense ministry which came out with figures but these have never been published don't you think after fifty sixty years of conflict that the colombian people actually deserve the truth about what their army did to them but the truth has come out the numbers you can't tell if the numbers are real if you tell me the how many exactly i have no idea of exactly how many i'm telling too much too many but that's that's not information you're not you're not opening the files and telling people what really happened if you had asked me before this
program tell me exactly how many i would just simply incredible to the files that remain classified to this day and you would have told me no because the number of people who were killed is not classified this is open information for any so why has nobody printed the real number why in may this year are we still having a former policeman or co-author in the report saying that it could be as many as ten thousand people that's ridiculous ten thousand this is something which how do you know if you know if you don't know what the truth. don't don't trust my words are saying to you i don't know the exact figure and even one for me is two maybe even and i've been fighting this. since i was minister and again they went down to zero. so it is time for some transparency about how this but this happened and exactly and this is what processing of this is exactly what we're doing with the transitional justice just moving it with the votes. of course we're
doing with a false positive the truth is coming out one of the benefits of the peace process is that the rights of the victims to have to know the truth to be repaired to have justice and the number position those are the rights that are coming out and been guaranteed by the peace process and this is justice and yes he was the cause of the miles and it's always will because of that positives what what really happened and who was involved course this is coming out and will him out well when the transitional justice starts to work how many times do i have to tell you the transitional justice is just starting to work and the truth is one crucial element in the peace process and as soon as the dust of the truth. comes out everybody will know exactly what happened in a conflict of fifty four years that killed more than two hundred fifty thousand
people displaced more than eight and have million people and that we thank god brought to an end he deserved the nobel peace prize it's not for me to to answer that nobel committee how do you think history will judge the world i think we ended a fifty four years of war and i think the country is very grateful for that when people are still waiting for transparency for transparency where in this country what went on for all these years that's exactly what the peace process is trying to bring out that's exactly what the truth is we have a truth commission that is bringing out exactly what the receiver will get it from the new president you think they'll get it i get it we have to get it for everybody this. we were many people were told from both sides and the truth must come out and sometimes thanks very much for being. good
read the real power that resides. i come from the loss of people in fact more than a bit in egypt it was not just democracy give me that's one reason i'm passionate about people and aspirations and they can sense. the two finishing the book is fried chicken but after the fourth of the sun in one hand remember thinking at the time if the blood in broken phone would have happened if people come together and unite for the kids. would i do the news that often confronts difficult situations more conflict being discussed out i see to sponsor my job in france because he does on policies and development to put the spotlight and issues that matter most hunger to security oppression mushing nicely since. a notch has been achieved so much more
needs to be john's and i think people have to be at the heart of solutions my name is a mismatch and i work at the delta. of. nikko because in germany to learn german village because. why not learn with him d w z learning course nikos fake. climate change. waste. pollution just so. isn't it time for good news eco africa people and projects that are changing no one fireman for the better it's up to us to make a difference. let's show her. the two women are going to be an apartment magazine. on d w.
this is t w news live from berlin turkey ends its two year state of emergency but new anti terror legislation has groups warring. everybody in prison everyone will use his sweeping new powers to consolidate the antiterrorist chain introduced during the state of emergency will go to istanbul for the latest. also on the program the view from trump supporters in tennessee the u.s. president may be facing a political storm back in washington often summit with russia's president putin but if the road rodeo.