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tv   Conflict Zone - Guest Martin Schulz  Deutsche Welle  November 21, 2018 6:30pm-7:01pm CET

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the second season of our documentary series. explore. starts november twenty fourth. whatever happened to martin schulz the former leader of germany's social democrats who challenged angola muckle last year for the chancery and failed spectacularly well he's my guest this week here in berlin why did you campaign fail and how does he react to criticism of his time as president of the european parliament.
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but intrudes welcome to conference on thank you. looking back on your campaign to become chancellor you admitted that you had made stupid mistakes you said miscalculations but the biggest problem was trust wasn't it you broke the promises why. and you in the complaint i thing it was not a lack of trust it was. a very specific atmosphere going to america tried successfully to escape from what we need in the election campaign open confrontation the competition of arguments for the best solutions and was very promising not to enter a coalition with the conservatives after the campaign yes you smoking to your question conserve the campaign in the mistakes made in the campaign after campaign i personally. promise not to join the government or the leadership of are going to back of the troops either did it on behalf of the whole party as the leader of the party and it was a hollywood it was
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a broken promise that the more less wasn't it then the party changed the opinion changed the strategy and i was in there i was in the very difficult situation that the party as a whole join the government above the leader of the party not to do in the government because of that promise i mis. understood their message of the members of my party that they insist that the leader of the party should not draw in the government like you are the oldest ever to serve in the merkel lead cap i found that is i found this. very contradictionary but at the end yes i promise that and then you have the promise after i saw that i couldn't keep the promise that the. the overwhelming majority of members of my parliament insisted to do it result so you can stick to promises you couldn't stick to decisions you'd made that's a hard label to where isn't it you're going to political scientists minds
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university said this endless vacillation was schultz's i'm doing he's right isn't it i don't cover members of comments but. the situation was not as easy as mr volcker tries to describe it or is a party leader saying because the whole party and the holy the ship unanimously say yes we don't draw on a government with america then the leader in system is already criticised to keeping that line i kept the line with a unanimous vote and then all the other people of the leadership of my party changed the strategy joined the government and asked me not to do the same thing so you load the party you're going to know what i'm doing yourself for breaking a promise i blame myself the miscalculation he spoke about was that i misunderstood and this is my mistake that normally it is think a bill that the party changed with good arguments or strategy and is asking the
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leader of the party not to follow the strategy. that was the case and therefore are resigned mr wilder is i think a man who is always commenting but from a point of view very far from the practical experience is political as have to understand during the campaign you often seem to have conflicting roadmaps you were plagued with doubts you didn't know if you should be shots the european or shorts the local candidate and then july twenty seventh team you said maybe i'm the wrong candidate the people are nice to me but it's out of pity. do you accept now that you were the wrong can't know this and you are quoting things published in the book or by a journalist who has paid me a million election campaign there followed you who followed closely with your i'm an election campaign there are strong moments a week of moments if you have to live twenty four hours around the clock above that
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pressure from time to time to make also observations under that pressure we have nothing to do with the reality this is human. that is you it's you that's me you know expressing who you are you know at that time felt you were carrying a lot of anger don't you think there are perhaps moment even in your life that you say if i should continue to interview politicians in conflict so i don't know their sense of nigh thing in life to do why should i continue such moments are in your life for sure also from time to time and polygynous able i wasn't trying to you haven't been chancellor in the world and you were that's the difference letitia's are human beings as all the others and that's what the there are those of the some understand the question what has it to do to becoming chancellor that in the very specific moment there is a kind of weakness exhausted in the middle of them i completely tired and then you say such a word and then
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a journalist is publishing and then somebody is asking me in conflict so you are able to become a transfer because you say such things i disagree i'm going to market has such weak moments for sure also but it's how you handle pressure when she is no one people entitled to know how you handle pressure know with lose it when the going gets tough you want if you want machines politicians you should continue to insist on that if you want the politicians are human beings like all the of those like their voters then you should follow my line where you're a good loser. you said in a television program after the results that angela merkel had been the biggest loser and she'd grown a scandalous campaign and then afterwards you admitted to your colleagues i guess i came across as a bit of a jerk as a disgruntled if you want to interview me about that book ok we can continue or it does but no you always occasions that your words are you are quoting observations that you made you are quoting the book this is a journalist and allowed him to come very keen to me i'm going to america to run
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a scandalous complaint and i was very angry in the evening about that campaign she lost nine percent in the polls so this i think the description of reality and i'm not a bad loser are you looking for a comeback in federal politics no i'm not going likely not i'm not looking for a comeback i'm here i don't have to get picked to come back federal politics i'm serving as a member of the europe of the german parliament for i have not come back then i'm going do you want to do you see while you're interviewing me in country so do you do you why are you interviewing me in conflict why because i want to find out about what you what you thought about your campaign and your time is european so i'm still president i'm serious still interesting from conflict so she won't have to get a dog about as a come back i know but i'm asking about your future intentions where you still see
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yourself on the federal state spending a part in federal politics putting yourself back as a candidate in the future as a candidate no more now committed for what chancellor now that's gone is that i think the. question for the time being is not who will run the s.p.d. for the next election campaign how to in proof the situation of the party this is the biggest question for the time being but you have specific views on the. as everybody is the party listening to you i hope so let's talk if we may about your time as president of the european parliament in the election campaign you accused of committing an attack on democracy that was one of the criticisms you had of but you presided in europe over an institution that was widely criticized for its democratic deficit wasn't it especially by the murdoch press in the united kingdom not just the most of most of the critics coming from
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you came from right wing tendencies of the earth are you so it's not valid as a directly elected parliament the only directly elected institution in the european union the european parliament if the european union is not sufficiently democratic i agree but this is not especially the european parliament the other way around this is the only directly elected institution in the european therefore this is completely mons but the elections that brought you to the presidency twice these were decided behind closed doors were there was an election it was decided beforehand who was going to win i had to run in the parliament that i had to to get a majority in the bottom in twenty twenty fourteen want to leave it behind closed doors you know in twenty fourteen you actually cover a president of the parliament you must run in the parliament and you must go i enjoy it i understand that and you both get the druggy of the parliamentarians how can you say this was behind closed doors but it was an open election an open boat
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with the overwhelming majority but in twenty fourteen you actually point to the post was announced by sigma gabrielle the vice chancellor a full eleven days before the so-called vote was in that he announced that i am your running president you know that i am running as a candidate yes nothing else but it was standard practice wasn't it for the largest political groups to. alternate between who should have the posts but it was standard practice wasn't it for the largest political groups to alternate between who should have the posts what is antidemocratic and. a lot of people thought going to check of the greens said it was a precooked deal which we just had to rubber stamp when the power just had the rubber stamp in the european parliament eight parliamentarian groups. representing more than three hundred different parties out of twenty eight member states of the
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european union to find a majority in the european parliament is not functioning like in the house of commons either labor or the tories your say wasn't a stitch up you must try to build a majority and the only majority possible to build after the election in two thousand and fourteen where neither arriving nor left wing majority was possible was that the two big groups cooperated by the way together with the liberals there so when this was a deal between parliamentarian groups yes and this is a normal thing in all parliaments but what are your influences for the vote that you'd want to ensure you knew before the vote that you were going to be president of the european i think this is don't understand your intention and members of the european parliament voted in the secret ballot for me with the majority. this is democracy i was running i had a candidate against me did you know that you were going to win you did you really
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didn't do you know before the election the outcome in the mock receive thing you know the outcome after the shots a lot of people attacked the european parliament on democratic grounds didn't the twenty sixteen in the closing days of your term in office the number of any peace and transparency campaigns criticized the fast tracking of legislation through the parliament because they said key negotiations were increasingly being conducted in the shadows these so-called trial logs leaving far less room for debate and outside scrutiny why why did that happen why did you allow that to happen the watering down of democratic oversight no i disagree once more this is nonsense alberta professor in law he said a major transparency black hole code it where large concessions are won and lost with very little oversight and without public disclosure wrong it's completely
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wrong slope watch code travesty of democracy and the opportunity for civilian civil society national parliaments to intervene and make their voices is nonexistent i disagree completely the european parliament is very transparent parliament the debate about the trial looks i agree with those who criticize the dialogues as a president of the european parliament i tried to open dialogues more for public by the way not all trial logs are secret there is a part of the election open another part is secret i tried as a present of the european parliament in a so-called in the institutional agreement with the council and the commission to open that to make it more visible more audible for the public it failed because the member states governments refused it so to criticize for this the european parliament is completely wrong. but if the european institutions aren't transparent why should the public trust them who is untransparent the commission governor ring
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in a secret way so like all the governments in the european union secondly the council of the european union the most powerful institution the council of seven states and government is covering secretly the only institution gathering openly in the communities and in the primary is the european parliament therefore that critic is wrong and it kept on losing trust because. feuer you can work you can blame their democratic institution which is a blight obliged in the frame of the in the institutional relations of the european union to cooperate with institutions who are secret and then you come to reste make responsible the only open and transparent institution to be as the others are not sufficiently open and transparent this is unfair and this unfairness i disagree entirely this is unfair which is concerning the yeah i think wonderful
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work of the overwhelming majority of members of the european i understand in full transparency i understand that so why did fewer and fewer people bother to vote in the e.u. parliamentary elections and try this is a twenty fourteen was the lowest ever there is one thousand that not in my country in my country in germany we don't agree for all overall minor point six percent in my country we increased the turnout. enormously in the last european election that's about across europe across here but europe is not you would need one piece of this twenty eight governments out of the me the question by the term out in the united kingdom was so low meanwhile in germany it was much whining about the average it kept on going down since the election started if the european union would be a state and the members federal states in the union of the federal summer and state i would agree with you but the european union is the union of several states with very heterogeneous and specific national circumstances twenty four for your car
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make an average in europe twenty four years ago on parliament itself criticized seventeen point eight million euros was paid advertising the elections and you got down to the lowest level of participation across not in my country my country in some countries did turn out in greece in other countries though one of the criticisms levelled at you was. but but but but by you are dropping out of the next question a very interesting question that's keep a moment an eye on it well you are right as we've got a lot to get through so we can just move on and talk of course is them a very superficial interview well you are raising you are raising income flick so in such important questions and giving them no chance to answer in a very mr short time can you sixteen minutes a new dance or a lot of questions but i really want to get through quite a bit more of what i do in the in the time that we have i think the interview the
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character of the interview is conflict so in conflict to me it's not you who are raising provoking questions and i come give provoking answers you're very welcome to give what answers you like but i'd like to talk about the breaches of the code of conduct for any piece especially when it came to transparency over any piece earnings and second jobs why did you appear disinterested in following up on these breaches of the code of conduct i didn't be interest you were interested in following up on them. as a president of the european parliament and also as a group leader here is very interested in the follow there's a lot of cases for example leave the cases of i think it was. sunday times of the u.k. . newspaper who made the thing law for cash and i excluded one of the members of my movie immediately from my crew. learned about spending gold who
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went on to become parliament's special rapporteur on transparency accountability integrity he said that in twenty sixteen whenever the special committee that was set up to look at these breaches found evidence of a breach it reported it to you because you were empowered to act only you didn't and i didn't concrete cases which would raise the wrong. gerald hafner former chair of that committee also said in twenty forty that you never followed up on complaints not a single one of these cases has had any conclusion he said any consequences and that is the end result of the tougher rules adopted by the european parliament i think we haven't done parliament all the citizens or european democracy any favors it is wrong they reported mr have have no came personally to me i remember and we agreed about a lot of different cases mr giggles never from the way to my office but always everybody to his website with allegations against me personally i
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took it very serious in the blue of the european parliament to a lot of measures but that this went to members of the can we move who consider themselves to be the opposition against the ruling majority therefore i'm not subside very valid criticisms are invalid i think putting a little not to increase transparency transparency in the european parliament but there was a lot of controversy on another major gap wasn't the so-called general expenditure allowance that any piece received for office expenditure rentals phone bills things like that each m.p. m.e.p. gets four thousand three hundred forty two euros a month i think it is with with no questions asked and no accountability why this is a general in covering the costs of members of parliament in their constituencies for phones for newspapers for books for this is forty million euros a year of european taxpayers' money and no controls no receipts no financial spot
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checks no or did nothing the question of trust yes and i trust the members of the european powers. and they said you didn't we have the same we have the same thing we have to have the same rule here in the european in the in the german parliament you get a general in loans to cover your costs and this is the thing the same in the european parliament and the parliamentarian like mr gold for example mr hare from our woomera who is you know nobody checks let me check fourteen million euros of european taxpayers' money just handed out with no controls no receipts no award nothing there's no general that this is a general loans if the majority of the european parliament is of the opinion that this is appropriated. we calculated by the way the seven hundred fifty members twelve times the year four thousand euros to justify it to the administration of the european parliament costs more money for civil servants controlling them to save the money. it's more it's learned that is
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supposed to comfort people if they're going to go to see any controls the control is more expensive than the trust and one small your presumption the presumption of those people who criticize it that this members of the parliament who get the general on loans don't spend the money for the things foreseen for the loans and i trust the members this is the difference between mr gold your own office expenses raised eyebrows didn't i mean in april twenty fifteen the review of the parliament's finances noted with concern that the large number of staff based in the office of the president of the european thirty five people including two drivers the person was highly questionable it said they warn that it set a bad example for cost reduction and fiscal responsibility with in parliament. when you accept that no you could have cut your expenses no one in my office was my office was smaller than the office of my predecessor does that matter fallon
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president of you being bottom of the president of institution he is the president of eight thousand civil servants working for the parliament seven hundred fifty members you come make this with two three. two three voices. and i was not surprised it was in the middle of a very you took no notice of the criticism you didn't cut your staffing levels you didn't get rid of the actual you didn't get rid of the two top range b.m.w. no i found that this was appropriate and i find it under today and i think my successor have the same stuff and it is appropriate that to. manage such a big institution you need stuff and this was a political decision by a hostile by a hostile committee the parliament warned that a quarter of voters had a very negative image of the parliament due to spending so. and you didn't think
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you could set an example that's why i disagree this is to run such an institution you need support. i acted in the frame of. a structure i earned from my predecessor i was not the man who invented that structure i was to benefited from it yes i benefited from and i was not some road of cut back but you didn't and i was not surprised that there's the first president who tried. to transform this only representative post in the political post i earned a lot of hostility by political opponents and that they focused suddenly with their criticism on a structural question instead of political content question i was not surprised and therefore i repeat i would have preferred to deal to discuss with my opponents about political items. because the structure of running some traffic and still talk
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about extravagance why i was the first one who was criticised by all this pre-decimal never criticised for it this was because i was a political figure and people and trying to make the european parliament more influential more powerful and then you earn also such a tax i didn't invent it i earn the then by the way my predecessor had more people in the stuff than me i would use that when i started in two thousand and twelve or reduce the size of most of the shows a year never never by the way never these people took note of that the decision i reduced the members of my staff in relation to my predecessors which should say year ago you advocated a united states of europe a new constitution for europe you said any country that didn't adopt it should have to leave the european union by this draconian stance who wants who wants a united states of europe these days me for example i want that i suggested because
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i think many others really early in the united kingdom for sure not in other countries yes i think the united states of italy poland hungary czech republic croatia and other holland you think they want. the right wing governments in europe are against deepening integration in the european union is not the news this is the case and i'm sure proud not to share the view of mr obama mr country but if we want to run in future times the european union and the idea of democracy against people like mr trump xi jinping obvious to put it we have to deepen european integration and not to redevelop the european union the kind of lose assembly of national states and this is my deep conviction that behind that idea of the united states of europe which will not be like the united states of america united kingdom or leaving the european union ok but france and germany have to deepen their
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cooperation think it'll ever happen i've been deeply convinced that this is the right way to go. martin shields thanks very much for being with some thank you thank you close the book. the be. the big. lead the but. the but. the but. the but the.
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this is you know we have here is live from berlin back in brussels for a last minute scramble to finalize the terms of the u.k. sprigs that agreement british prime minister theresa may is meeting european commission had. on the table of blueprint for britain's future times with the walk out of a crucial summit of e.u. leaders on sunday to seal the deal also on the program a group of gunmen of ducks an italian aid worker from her guest house in kenya injuring several children in the attack no group has claimed respawn.


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