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tv   Conflict Zone - Guest Martin Schulz  Deutsche Welle  November 22, 2018 5:30am-6:01am CET

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i know nothing at the germans because sometimes i am place and nothing with the family and i think deep into the german culture i. think it is graham yeah he does it's all bad. enough i'm a child joining me the family. forced. whatever happened to martin schulz the former leader of germany's social democrats who challenge angle of merkel last year for the chancery and failed spectacularly well he's my guest this week here in berlin why did his campaign fail and how does he react to criticism of his time as president of the european parliament. but intrudes welcome to conflict zone thank you about looking back on your campaign
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to become chancellor you admitted that you had made stupid mistakes you said miscalculations but the biggest problem was trust wasn't it you broke the promises why. and you make a brain i think it was not a lack of trust it was. very specific atmosphere i'm going to america tried successfully to escape from what we need in the lectern compay open confrontation the competition of arguments for the best solutions and was a very promising not to enter coalition with angela merkel the conservative after the campaign yes you smoke into your question conserve the campaign of the mistakes made in the campaign after the complaint i personally. promised not to join the government or the leadership of our going to back of the troops but i did it on behalf of the whole party as the leader of the party and it was
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a hollywood it wasn't broken promises them are less wasn't it and then the party changed the opinion changed the strategy and i was in there i was in the very difficult situation that the party as a whole group joined the government above the leader of the party not to do in the government because of that promise i mis. understood their message of the members of my party that they insist that the leader of the party should not draw in the government like you are the oldest ever to serve in the merkel lead cap i found that is i found this. very contradictionary but at the end yes i promise that. and you have the promise after i saw that i couldn't keep the promise that the. the overwhelming majority of members of my parliament insisted to do it result so you can stick to promises you couldn't stick to decisions you'd made that's a hard label to where isn't it you're going to fall to political scientists minds
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university said this endless vacillation was schultz's undoing his writers until i don't cover members of alt comments but. this situation was not as easy as mr walter tries to describe it or is a party leader saying because the whole party and the holy the ship unanimously say yes we don't draw on a government with america then the leader in system is already criticized to keeping that line i kept aligned with a unanimous vote and then all the other people of the leadership of my party changed the strategy joined the government and asked me not to do the same thing so you load the party you're going to know them to yourself for breaking a promise i blame myself the miscalculation he spoke about was that i misunderstood and this is my mistake. that normally it is think about that the party changed with good arguments
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a strategy and is asking the leader of the party not to follow the strategy. ok that was the case and therefore are resigned mr wilder is i think a man who is always commenting but from a point of view very far from the practical experiences political is have to me understand during the campaign you often seem to have conflicting roadmaps you were plagued with doubts you didn't know if you should be so the european or shorts the local candidate and in july twenty seventh team you said maybe i'm the wrong candidate the people are nice to me but it's out of pity do you accept now that you were the wrong count know this and you are quoting things published in the book or by a journalist who has paid me a million election campaign the whole of you who followed your campaign closely during the election campaign there are strong moments or weaker moments if you have to live twenty four hours around the clock of that pressure from time to time you
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make also observations under that pressure we have nothing to do with the reality this is human. that is you it's you that's me you know expressing who you are you know at that time or going felt you were carrying a lot of anger don't you i think there are for perhaps a moment even in your life that you say if i should continue to interview politicians in conflict zone i don't know there is such of ny thing in life to do why should i continue such moment and your life for sure also from time to time and polygynous able i wasn't trying to you have to be chancellor in your work and you were. that's the difference illusions are human beings of the others and wonder what that there are those of the son understand the question what has it to do to becoming chancellor than the very specific moment there is a kind of weakness exhausted in the middle of them i completely tired and then you say such a word and then
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a journalist is publishing and then somebody is asking me in conflict so you are unable to become a transfer because you say substrings i disagree under market has such weak moments for sure also but i tell you handle pressure one tree is no one people are entitled to know how you handle pressure no but this is lose it when the going gets tough you want if you want machines politicians you should continue to insist on that if you want that politicians are human beings like all the of those like their voters then you should follow my line where you are a good loser. we said in a television program after the results that angle of merkel had been the biggest loser and she'd run a scandalous campaign and then afterwards you admitted to your colleagues i guess i came across as a bit of a jerk as a disgruntled if you want to interview me about that book ok we can continue or it does but no you always occasions that you are quoting observations that you made you are quoting the book this is a journalist and allowed him to come very keen to me i'm going to america to run
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a scandalous complaint and i was very angry in the evening about that campaign she lost nine percent in the polls so this i think the description of reality and i'm not a bad loser are you looking for a comeback into federal politics i'm not very likely not i'm not looking for a comeback i'm here i don't have to get picked to come back. politics i'm serving as a member of the europe of the german parliament. i have not to come back to you i'm going do you want to do you see while you're interviewing me in conflicts or do you do you why are you interviewing me in conflict why because i want to find out about what you what you thought about your campaign and your time is european so i'm still president i'm serious still interesting from conflict so she won't have to get organize a car back i'll be you know but i'm asking about your future intentions where you still see yourself on the federal state spending
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a part in federal politics putting yourself back as a candidate in the future as a candidate no more now committed for what chancellor now that's gone is that i think the. question for the time being is not who will run the s.p.d. for the next election campaign how to in proof the situation of the party this is the biggest question for the time being but you have specific views on the. as everybody is the party listening to you i hope so let's talk if we may about your time as president of the european parliament in the election campaign you accused of committing an attack on democracy that was one of the criticisms you had of but you presided in europe over an institution that was widely criticized for its democratic deficit wasn't it especially by the murdoch press in the united kingdom not just the most of most of the critics coming from
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you came from right wing tendencies of your work are you say it's not valises a directly elected parliament the only directly elected elite institutions in the european union the european parliament if the european union is not sufficiently democratic i agree but this is not especially the european parliament the other way around this is the only directly elected institution in the european therefore this is completely mons but the elections that brought you to the presidency twice these were decided behind closed doors there was an election but it was decided beforehand who was going to win i had to run in the parliament that i had to to get a majority in the bottom in twenty twenty fourteen what was once a liberal and close those you know in twenty fourteen you actually cover president of the parliament you must run in the parliament and you must guide right i understand that i'm able to get a majority of the parliamentarians how can you say this was behind closed doors but
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wasn't open election an open boat with the overwhelming majority but in twenty fourteen you actually point to the post was announced by gabrielle vice chancellor a full eleven days before the so-called vote was in that he announced that i am your arguing president you know that i'm running as a candidate nothing else but it was standard practice wasn't it for the largest political groups to. alternate between who should have the posts but it was standard practice wasn't it for the largest political groups to alternate between who should have the posts what is antidemocratic and. a lot of people thought going to check of the greens said it was a precooked deal which we just had to rubber stamp in the parliament just had the rubber stamp in the european parliament eight parliamentarian groups. representing more than three hundred different parties out of twenty eight member states of the
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european union to find a majority in the european parliament is not functioning like in the house of commons either labor or the tories you say it wasn't a stitch up you must try to build a majority and the only majority possible to build after the election in two thousand and fourteen where neither arriving nor left wing majority was possible was that the two big groups cooperated by the way together with the liberals yeah so when this was a deal between parliamentarian groups yes and this is a normal thing in all parliaments but what are your influences for the vote. didn't you knew before the vote that you were going to be president of the european i think this is about i don't understand your intention members of the european parliament voted in the secret ballot for me but the majority. this is democracy i was running i had a candidate against me did you know that you were going to win you did you really
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didn't do you know before the election the outcome in the mock receive thing you know the outcome after the shots a lot of people attacked the european parliament on democratic grounds didn't the twenty sixteen in the closing days of your term in office the number of any peace and transparency campaigns criticized the fast tracking of legislation through the parliament because they said key negotiations were increasingly being conducted in the shadows these so-called trial logs leaving far less room for debate and outside scrutiny why why did that happen why did you allow that to happen the watering down of democratic oversight no i disagree once more this is nonsense. man a professor in e.u. law he said the major transparency black hole code it where large concessions are won and lost with very little oversight and without public disclosure wrong it's
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completely wrong slope watch coded travesty of democracy and the opportunity for civilian civil society national parliaments to intervene and make their voices is nonexistent i disagree completely the european parliament is very transparent parliament the debate about the trial logs i agree with those who criticize the dialogues as a president of the european parliament i tried to open dialogues more for public by the way not all trial logs are secret there is a part of the election open another part is secret i tried as a present of the european parliament in a so-called in the institutional agreement with the council and the commission to open that to make it more visible more audible for the public it failed because the member states governments refused so to criticize for this the european parliament is completely wrong. but if the european institutions aren't transparent why should the public trust them who is untransparent the commission. governor ring in
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a secret way so like all the governments in the european union secondly the council of the european union the most powerful institution the council of seven states and government is covering secretly the only institution gathering openly in the committees and in the primary is the european parliament therefore that critic is wrong and it kept on losing trust because. if you are coming up you can blame their democratic institution which is a blight obliged in the frame of the in the institutional relations of the european union to cooperate with institutions who are secret and then you come to research make responsible the only open and transparent institution to be as the others not sufficiently open and transparent this is unfair and this unfairness i disagree entirely this is unfair which is concerning the yeah i think wonderful
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work of the overwhelming majority of members of the european i understand in full transparency i understand that so why do fewer and fewer people bother to vote in the e.u. parliamentary elections until there is a twenty fourteen was the lowest ever there is one summit not in my country in my country in germany we don't agree for all over all my point six percent in my country we increased the turnout. enormously in the last european elections and that across europe across here but europe is not a unique one piece it is twenty eight governments unsub to me the question why the term out in the united kingdom was so low meanwhile in germany it was much whining about the advantages the averages kept on going down since the election started if the european union would be a state and the members federal states in the union in the federal summer and stay there would agree with you but the european union is the union of several state with very heterogeneous and specific national circumstances twenty four for your
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car make an average in europe twenty four years ago a compartment itself criticized seventeen point eight million euros were spent advertising the elections and you got down to the lowest level of participation across not in my country from some not in my country in some countries the turnout increased in other countries when one of the criticisms leveled at you was so. i know but by but by you are dropping out of the next question a very interesting question that's keep a moment an eye on it well you are right we've got a lot to get through so we can just move on and talk about is the i'm a very superficial interview well you are only we are raising in conflict zones such an important question and giving their own no chance to answer in the very mr show how can you sixteen minutes on the ranch said a lot of questions but i really want to get through quite a bit more but i don't in the time that we have i think the interview the character
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of the interview is conflict so in conflict really means not you are raising provoking questions and i come if provoking answers you're very welcome to give what answers you like but i'd like to talk about the breaches of the code of conduct for any piece especially when it came to transparency over any piece and second job why did you appear disinterested in following up on these breaches of the code of conduct i didn't be interest you were interested in following up on them. as a present of the european parliament and also as a group really yes very interested in the follow there's a lot of cases for example later the case is my thing it was the sunday times or the u.k. . newspaper who made the thing lot of cash and i excluded one of the members of my crew immediately from my guru when my learn about spent giggled who went on to become parliament's special rapporteur on transparency
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accountability integrity he said that in twenty sixteen whenever the special committee that was set up to look at these breaches found evidence of a breach it reported to you because you were empowered to act only you didn't know that. concrete cases should raise the strong general tufnell former chair of that committee also said in twenty forty that you never followed up on complaints not a single one of these cases has had any conclusion he said always had any consequences and that is the end result of the tougher rules adopted by the european parliament i think we haven't done parliament or the citizens or european democracy any favors it is wrong they reported mr have have no came personally to me i remember and we agreed about a lot of different cases mr google never from the way to my office but always everybody to his website with allegations against me personally i
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took it very seriously the bureau of the european parliament to a lot of measures but at this point two members of the green groups who consider themselves to be the opposition against the ruling majority there are lots of some very valid criticisms are invalid i think i think a little not to increase transfer of transparency and the european powers but there was a lot of controversy on another major gap wasn't the so-called general expenditure allowance that any piece received for office expenditure rentals phone bills things like that each m.p. m.e.p. gets four thousand three hundred forty two euros a month i think it is with with no questions asked and no accountability why this is a general in covering the costs of members of parliament in their constituencies for phones for newspapers for books for this is forty million euros a year of european taxpayers' money and no controls no receipts no financial spot
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checks no audit nothing the question of trust yes and i trust the members of the european public. and they said you didn't we have the same we have the same thing we have to have the same rule here in the european in the in the german parliament you get a general of loans to cover your costs and this is the thing the same in the european parliament and the parliamentarian like mr gold for example mr hare from our woomera who is you know nobody checks nobody checks fourteen million euros of european taxpayers' money just handed out with no controls no receipts no award nothing there's no general that this is a general loans if the majority of the european parliament is of the opinion that this is in appropriated. we calculated by the way that seven hundred fifty members twelve times the year four thousand euros to justify it to the administration of the european parliament costs more money possible servants controlling them to save the money. it's more it's learned that is
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supposed to comfort people who want him but you don't see any controls the control is more expensive than the trust and once more your presumption the presumption of those people who criticize is that this members of the parliament who get that general unknowns don't spend the money for the things for seem for the loans and i trust the members this is the difference between mr google me your own office expenses raised eyebrows didn't i mean in april twenty fifteen a review of the parliament's finances noted with concern that the large number of staff based in the office of the president of the european thirty five people including two drivers the personal was highly questionable it said they wanted it set a bad example for cost reduction and fiscal responsibility with in parliament. when you accept i know you could have cut your expenses could no one of my office my office was smaller than the office of my predecessor does that matter fallon
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president of you being bottom of the president of institution he is the president of eight thousand civil servants working for the parliament seven hundred fifty members you come make this with two three. two three visors and i was not surprised it was in the middle of a very but you took no notice of the criticism you didn't cut your staffing levels you didn't get rid of the you didn't get rid of the two top range b.m.w. . i found that this was appropriate and i find that under today and i think my successor have the same stuff and it is appropriate that to. manage such a big institution you need stuff and this was a political decision by a hostile by a hostile committee the parliament warned that a quarter of voters had a very negative image of the parliament due to spending so. and you didn't think
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you could set an example that's why i disagree that this is to run such an institution you need support. i acted in the frame of. a structure i earned from my predecessor i was not the man who invented that structure i was to benefited from it yes i benefited from an i was not some rod of cut back but you didn't and i was not surprised that there's the first president who tried. to transform this only representative post in the political post i earned a lot of hostility by political opponents and that they focused suddenly with their criticism on a structural question instead of political content question i was not surprised and therefore i repeat i would have preferred to deal to discuss with my opponents about political items. because the structure of running some travel to talk about
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extravagance to why i was the first one who was criticized by all this previous us were never criticised for it this was because i was a political figure and people and trying to make the european parliament more influential more powerful and then you earn also such a tax i didn't invent it i earned it and by the way my predecessor have more people in the stuff than me i would use that when i started in two thousand and twelve are reduced the size of my stop the shows a year never never by the way never these people took note of that the decision i reduced the members of my staff in relation to my predecessors which should say year ago you advocated a united states of europe a new constitution for europe you said any country that didn't adopt it should have to leave the european union by this draconian stance who wants who wants a united states of europe these days me for example i want that i suggested because
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i think many others really. in the united kingdom for sure not in other countries yes i think the united states of italy poland hungary czech republic croatia are there aren't you think they want. and right wing governments in europe against even ing integration in the european union is not the news this is the case and i'm sure proud not to share the view of mr arbuthnot mr kaczynski but if we want to run in future times the european union and the idea of democracy against people like mr trump xi jinping obvious to put it we have to deepen european integration and not to redevelop the european union the kind of lose assembly of national states and this is my deep conviction and that's behind that idea of the united states of europe which will not be like the united states of america united kingdom or leaving the european union ok but france and germany have to deepen their
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cooperation think it'll ever happen i've been deeply convinced that this is the right way to go. martin shields thanks very much for being a poke at some thank you thank you. to. the be. the be. the be. the be. the be the be. the be.
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this is d w news lawyer from berlin to bring in our correspondent ophelia harms a british joins us from three of you shall we go to find out what happened with me think of a car fund that summed up it's not and we do have some of breaking news that coming in from this now what it's all about perspective closer up w. news thank you for joining us earth home to millions of species a home worth saving. which is on those are big changes and most start with small steps global ideas tell stories of creative people and innovative projects around the world like deals that protect the climate used to green energy solutions and reforestation. they create interactive content teaching the next generation about environmental protection and we're determined to build something here for the next
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