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tv   Conflict Zone - Guest Martin Schulz  Deutsche Welle  November 22, 2018 9:30am-10:01am CET

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she's in the everyone has to. be she. could you tell africa starts december twelfth w. whatever happened to martin schulz the former leader of germany social democrats who challenge the angle of merkel last year for the chancery and failed spectacularly well he is my guest this week here in berlin why did his campaign fail and how does he react to criticism of his time as president of the european parliament. but intrudes welcome to conflict zone thank you. looking back on your campaign to
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become chancellor you admitted that you had made stupid mistakes you said miscalculations but the biggest problem was trust wasn't it you broke the promises why. and you make a bain i thing it was not a lack of trust it was. a very specific atmosphere going to america tried successfully to escape from what we need in the lectern compete open confrontation the competition of arguments for the best solutions and was very obvious not coalition with angela merkel the conservative that was after the campaign yes you smoke into your question conserve the campaign in the mistakes made in the campaign after the compay i personally. promised not to join the government or the leadership of our going to back of the troops but i did it on behalf of the whole party as the leader of the party and it was a hollywood it was
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a broken promise them or less wasn't it then the party changed the opinion changed the strategy and i was in that i was in the very difficult situation that the party as a whole join the government above the leader of the party not to do in the government because of the promise i mis. understood their message of the members of my party that they insist that the leader of the party should not draw in the government like you have almost never to serve in the merkel led cap i found that is i found this. very contradictionary but at the end yes i promised it and and you had a promise after i saw that i couldn't keep the promise that the. the overwhelming majority of members of my parliament insisted to do it i result so you can stick to promises you couldn't stick to decisions you'd made that's a hard label to where isn't it you're going to political scientists minds
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university said this endless vacillation was just i'm doing he's right isn't it i don't cover members of walter comments but. the situation was not as easy as mr volcker tries to describe it or is a party leader saying because the whole party of the holy the ship unanimously say yes we don't draw on a government with america then the leader in system is already criticised to keeping that line i kept aligned with a unanimous vote and then all the other people of the leadership of my party changed the strategy joined the government and asked me not to do the same thing so you blame the party you're going to among them going yourself for breaking a promise i blame myself the miscalculation he spoke about was that i missed the stroke and this is my mistake. that normally it is think about that the party changed with good arguments
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a strategy and is asking the leader of the party not to follow the strategy. ok that was the case and therefore are resigned mr wilder as i think a man who is always commenting but from a point of view a very far from the practical experience is political as have to make i understand during the campaign you often seem to have conflicting roadmaps you were plagued with doubts you didn't know if you should be the european or show the local candidate and then july twenty seventh teen you said maybe i'm the wrong candidate the people are nice to me but it's out of pity do you accept now that you were the wrong can't know this and you are quoting things published in the book or by a journalist who paid me a million election campaign they were followed you followed closely with your human election campaign there are strong moments or weaker moments if you have to live twenty four hours around the clock i love that pressure from time to time you make
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also observations under that pressure we have nothing to do with the reality this is human. you it's you that's me you know expressing who you are you know at that time or going felt you were carrying a lot of anger don't you think there are for perhaps a moment even in your life that you say if i should continue to interview politicians in conflicts and i don't know there's such a nice thing in life to do why should i continue such moments are in your life for sure also from time to time and polygynous able i wasn't trying to you have to be chancellor in your work and you were. that's the difference with liberals are human beings all the others and that's what they're there i don't have the same understand the question what has it to do to becoming chancellor the been the very specific moment there is a kind of weakness exhausted in the middle of them my completely tired and then you say such a word and then
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a journalist is publishing and then somebody is asking me in conflict so you are able to become a transfer because you say such things i disagree i'm glad market has such weak moments for sure also but it's how you handle pressure when she is no one people are entitled to know how you handle pressure know where this is lose it when the going gets tough you want if you want machines politicians you should continue to insist on that if you want that politicians are human beings like all the of those like their voters then you should follow my line where you are a good loser. we said in a television program after the results that angle of merkel had been the biggest loser and she'd run a scandalous campaign and then afterwards you admitted to your colleagues i guess i came across as a bit of a jerk as a disgruntled jerk if you want to interview me about the book ok we can continue or it does but no you are always occasions that you are you are quoting observations that you made you are quoting the book this is a journalist and allowed him to come very keen to me until america run
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a scandalous complaint and i was very angry in the evening about that campaign she lost nine percent in the polls so this i think the description of reality and i'm not a bad loser are you looking for a comeback in federal politics i'm not going to likely not i'm not looking for a comeback i'm here i don't have to get picked to come back federal politics i'm serving as a member of the europe of the german parliament for i have not come back to you i'm going do you want to do you see while you're interviewing me in country so do you do you why are you interviewing me in conflict why because i want to find out about what you what you thought about your campaign and your time is european so i'm still president i'm serious still interesting from conflict so she won't have to get a dog about as a comeback i've you know but i'm asking about your future intentions where you still see yourself on the federal stage playing
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a part in federal politics putting yourself back as a candidate in the future as a candidate no now committed for what the chancellor now that's gone is that i think the. question for the time being not who will run the s.p.d. for the next election campaign how to in proof the situation of the party this is the biggest question for the time being but you have specific views on the. as everybody is the party listening to you i hope so let's talk if we may about your time as president of the european parliament in the election campaign you accused of committing an attack on democracy that was one of the criticisms you had before but you presided in europe over an institution that was widely criticized for its democratic deficit was and especially by the murdoch press in the united kingdom not just the most of most of the critics coming from
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you came from right wing tendencies of the earth can you say it's not valises a directly elected parliament the only direct elected the institution in the european union the european parliament if the european union is not sufficiently democratic i agree but this is not especially the european parliament the other way around this is the only directly elected institution in the european therefore this is completely nonsense but the elections that brought you to the presidency twice these were decided behind closed doors were there was an election it was decided beforehand who was going to win i had to run in the parliament that i had to to get the majority in the bottom in twenty twenty fourteen want to leave it behind closed doors you know in twenty fourteen you actually become a president of the parliament you must run in the parliament and you must guide gerry i understand that and you both get the majority of the parliamentarians how can you say this was behind closed doors but it was an open election an open vote
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with a lot of overwhelming majority but in twenty fourteen you actually point to the post was announced by sigma gabrielle the vice chancellor a full eleven days before the so-called vote was in that he announced that i am your running president you know that i'm running as a candidate there's nothing else that it was standard practice wasn't it for the largest political groups to. alternate between who should have the posts but it was standard practice wasn't it for the largest political groups to alternate between who should have the posts what is antidemocratic and a lot of people thought going to check of the greens said it was a precooked deal which we just had to rubber stamp in the parliament just had to rubber stamp in the european parliament eight parliamentarian groups representing more than three hundred different parties out of twenty eight member states of the
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european union to find a majority in the european parliament is not functioning by in the house of commons either labor or the tories you say it wasn't a stitch up you must try to build a majority and the only majority possible to build after the election in two thousand and fourteen where neither arriving nor left wing majority was possible was that the two big groups cooperated by the way together with the liberals yeah so this was a deal between parliamentarian groups yes and this is a normal thing in all parliaments but what are you doing you before the vote. didn't you you knew before the vote that you were going to be president of the european i think this is about i don't understand your intention members of the european parliament voted in the secret ballot for me but the majority. this is democracy i was running i had a candidate against me did you know that you were going to win or you did you
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really didn't do you know before the election the outcome in the mock receive thing you know the outcome after the shots a lot of people attacked the european parliament on democratic grounds in the twenty's sixteen in the closing days of your term in office a number of any peace and transparency campaigns criticized the fast tracking of legislation through the parliament because they said key negotiations were increasingly being conducted in the shadows these so-called trial logs leaving far less room for debate and outside scrutiny why why did that happen why did you allow that to happen the watering down of democratic oversight no i disagree once more this is nonsense alberta professor in e.u. law he said the major transparency black hole code it where large concessions are won and lost with very little oversight and without public disclosure wrong it's
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completely wrong state watch quoted travesty of democracy and the opportunity for civilian civil society national parliaments to intervene and make their voices is non-existent i disagree completely the european parliament is very transparent parliament the debate about the trial logs i agree with those who criticize the dialogues as a president of the european parliament i tried to open dialogues more for public by the way not all trial logs are secret there is a part of the election open another part is secret i tried as a present of the european parliament in a so-called in the institutional agreement with the council and the commission to open that to make it more visible more audible for the public it failed because the member states governments refused so to criticize for this the european parliament is completely wrong. but if the european institutions aren't transparent why should the public trust them who is untransparent the commission governor ring in the
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secret way so like all the governments in the european union secondly the council of the european union the most powerful institution the council of seven states and government is covering secretly the only institution gathering openly in the committees and in the plenary is the european parliament therefore that critic is wrong and it kept on losing trust because. if you are kind of you can blame their democratic institution which is a blight obliged in the frame of the in the institutional relations of the european union to cooperate with institutions who are secret and then you come to research make responsible the only open and transparent institution to be as the others not sufficiently open and transparent this is unfair and this unfairness i disagree entirely this is unfair which is concerning the yeah i think wonderful
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work of the overwhelming majority of members of the european i understand in full transparency i understand that so why do fewer and fewer people bother to vote in the e.u. parliamentary elections and try to sort of twenty fourteen was the lowest ever there is one thousand that not in my country in my country in germany we now believe are all over all my point six percent in my country we increased the turnout. enormously in the last european election that's about across europe across here but europe is not a unique one piece it is twenty eight governments answer to me the question why the term out in the united kingdom was so low meanwhile in germany it was much whining about the average it kept on going down since the election started if the european union would be a state and the members federal states in the union of the federal severance state i would agree with you but the european union is the union of several state with very heterogeneous and specific national circumstances twenty four for your car
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make an average in europe twenty four years ago in the parliament itself criticized seventeen point eight million euros were spent advertising the elections and you got down to the lowest level of participation across not in my country from some not in my country in some countries did turn out in greece in other countries though one of the criticisms leveled at you was so. and i know but not by best buy you are dropping out of the next question a very interesting question that's the key the moment an eye on it well you are right we've got a lot to get through so we can just move on and talk about is the i'm a very superficial interview well you are only you are raising in conflict zones such an important question and giving them no chance to answer in the very mr shows i've given you sixteen minutes and you're answered a lot of questions but i really want to get through quite a bit more of what i learned in the time that we had but i think the interview the character of the interview is conflict stone and conflicts only means not you are
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raising provoking questions and i come give provoking answers you're very welcome to give what answers you like but i'd like to talk about the breaches of the code of conduct for any piece especially when it came to transparency over any piece and second job why did you appear disinterested in following up on these breaches of the code of conduct i didn't be interest you were interested in following up on them. as a present of the european parliament and also as a group leader here very interested in the follow there's a lot of cases for example of the cases of i think it was the sunday times or the u.k. . newspaper who made the thing law for cash and i excluded one of the members of my rule immediately from my groove and my learned about spent giggled who went on to become parliament's special rapporteur on transparency
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accountability integrity he said that in twenty six being whenever the special committee that was set up to look at these breaches found evidence of a breach it reported to you because you were empowered to act only you didn't know that concrete cases should raise the wrong. general tufnell former chair of that committee also said in twenty forty that you never followed up on complaints not a single one of these cases has had any conclusion he said any consequences and that is the end result of the tougher rules adopted by the european parliament i think we haven't done parliament or the citizens or european democracy any favors it is wrong they reported mr have have no came personally to me i remember and we agreed about a lot of different cases mr giggles never from the way to my office but always everybody to his website with allegations against me personally i
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took it very serious in the bureau of the european parliament to a lot of measures but that this went to members of the. who consider themselves to be the opposition against the ruling majority their form lots of some very valid criticisms are invalid i think i think a little not to increase transfer of transparency in the european problem but there was a lot of controversy on another major gap wasn't the so-called general expenditure allowance that any piece received for office expenditure rentals phone bills things like that each m.p. m.e.p. gets four thousand three hundred forty two euros a month i think it is with with no questions asked and no accountability why this is a general in covering the costs of members of parliament in their constituencies for phones for newspapers for books for this is forty million euros a year of european taxpayers' money and no controls no receipts no financial spot
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checks no audit nothing the question of trust yes and i trust the members of the european public. and they said you didn't we have the same we have the same thing we have to have the same rule here in the european in the in the german parliament you get a general of loans to cover your costs and this is the thing the same in the european parliament and the parliamentarian like mr gold for example mr hare from our woman over who is you know nobody checks let me check fourteen million euros of european taxpayers money just handed out with no controls no receipts no award nothing there's no general that this is a general loans if the majority of the european parliament is of the opinion that this is in appropriated. we calculated by the way that seven hundred fifty members twelve times the year four thousand euros to justify the administration of the european parliament costs more money for civil servants controlling them to save their money. it's more it's learned that is
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supposed to comfort people who are in it because you don't see any controls the control is more expensive than the trust and once more your presumption the presumption of those people who criticize is that this members of the parliament who get that general and loans don't spend the money for the things foreseen for the loans and i trust the members this is the difference between mr google me your own office expenses raised eyebrows didn't i mean in april twenty fifteen the review of the parliament's finances noted with concern that the large number of staff based in the office of the president of the european thirty five people including two drivers the personal was highly questionable it said they warn that it set a bad example for cost reduction and fiscal responsibility with in parliament. when you accept that no you could have cut your expenses no one of my office was my office was smaller than the office of my predecessor does that matter fallon
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president of you being bottom of the president of institution he is the president of eight thousand civil servants working for the parliament seven hundred fifty members to come make this with two three. two three visors and i was not surprised it was in the middle of a very but you took no notice of the criticism you didn't cut your staffing levels you didn't get rid of the actual you didn't get rid of the two top range b.m.w. . i found that this was appropriate and i find that under today and i think my successor have the same stuff and it is appropriate that to. manage such a big institution you need stuff. this was a political decision by a hostile by a hostile committee the parliament warned that a quarter of voters had a very negative image of the parliament due to spending so both of them and you
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didn't think you could set an example that's why i disagree that this is to run such an institution you need support. i acted in the frame of. a structure i earned from my predecessor i was not the man who invented that structure i wasn't you benefited from it yes i benefited from and i was not some rod of cut back but you didn't and i was not surprised that there's the first president who tried. to transform this only representative post in the political post i earned a lot of hostility by political opponents and that they focussed suddenly with their criticism on a structural question instead of political content question i was not surprised and therefore i repeat i would have preferred to deal to discuss with my opponents about political items. because the structure of running some traffic and still talk
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about extravagance why i was the first one who was criticised by all this previous us and will never criticize for it this was because i was a political figure and people and trying to make the european parliament more influential more powerful and then you earn also such a tax i didn't invent it i earn that then by the way my predecessor had more people in the stuff than me i would use that when i started in two thousand and twelve or reduce the size of my stop the shows a year never never by the way never these people took note of that the decision i reduced the members of my staff in relation to my predecessors we should say year ago you advocated a united states of europe a new constitution for europe you said any country that didn't adopt it should have to leave the european union by this draconian stance who wants who wants a united states of europe these days me for example i want that i suggested because
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i think many others really today in the united kingdom for sure not in other countries yes i think the united states of italy poland hungary czech republic croatia other holland you think they want. right wing governments in europe are against deepening integration in the european union is not the news this is the case and i'm sure proud not to share the view of mr arbuthnot mr gubb chimpsky but if we want to run in future times the european union and the idea of democracy against people like mr trump xi jinping obvious to put it we have to deepen european integration and not to redevelop the european union the kind of lose assembly of national states and this is my deep conviction and that's behind that idea of the united states of europe which will not be like the united states of america united kingdom or leaving the european union ok but france and germany have
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to deepen their cooperation i think it'll ever happen i've been deeply convinced that this is the right way to go. martin shields thanks very much for being that some thank you thank you clear the books the books. the books. the be. the book. the be. the book. the the. the cut
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the book. the be. the be. the be a medium it. is history repeating itself. the jews have to live in fear. the big decades after the holocaust. semitic attacks on the rise again in europe. and should come from what can be done to fight. semitism in europe.
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the bold. this is g w news lawyer from berlin to bring in our correspondent ophelia harms are pretty strong so from rio de janeiro now we have you to find out what happened with me think of a correspondent sent up to snap and we do have some of breaking news it's coming in from this now but it's all about the perspective closer to w. news thank you for joining us they said in. the movie that technology digital advances are transforming the most movies humanity ready for it. the second season of our documentary series founders valley. joined german founders just as lief for our digital future. sally starts november twenty fourth off e.w. . come on they are digital warriors.
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this is deja vu news live from berlin racing to beat the bronx at deadline british prime minister under pressure to deliver a final deal on bracks but positions are hardening in brussels and berlin just from ackles threatening to boycott sunday's e.u. song also coming up. hope for a nation the ravaged by violence and famine the u.s. secretary of defense says yemen's warring parties have agreed to peace talks.


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