tv Special Program Deutsche Welle April 19, 2019 2:15am-3:01am CEST
it's crunch time the european elections are just around the corner thank you living in asia you might ask a simple why should i care what the european market is one of the biggest in the once every month everybody needs to get to watch our special show you elections why they matter to asia. the superstructure it will actions why they matter to asia. europe after the end of the first world war. there are more than two million speechless refugees. fleeing one document the start of my. sister last time.
i asked for. you sixty minutes w. . what do we want. when do we want it now eighty percent of americans at some point and i live will experience my ship. welcome to crunch time the european elections are just around the corner i know we've almost forgotten about them because of bragg's it but now they are back with a vengeance and you might have recognized the place we are sitting in here this is of course the seat of the european parliament in strasbourg and this is the last plenary session in this set up before the election so it's time to discuss the new elections and why they matter to asia now if you think someone asia you might ask is why should i care about the european election. well there is one of the biggest
markets in the world and induced times of globalization everyone everywhere you care to discuss that with a great panel so stick with us and stick with our guests on my left for example. who is a member of the european greens and an expert. and she says the guiding light for good governance in the region needs to be universal human rights and on my right we have professor dr who he is from the center for global studies in boston and europe and asia needs each other to overcome these times of uncertainty on the road over there the youngest member of the european parliament so it's his future we're also talking about here it's of course ralph and he is from the e.c.r. group the european conservatives and reformists and he says calling the asian economies suddenly systemic rivals and competitors is going to fall. also
with us is mr good you think he's india's former ambassador to germany and he says europe is not part of the strategic discussion in asia. how would show some member of the european left a member of the e.u. china delegation he says asia and europe need to be the closest possible partners to overcome the global problems talking about problems and max every time i talk about europe and asia people say to me you mean china many people here asia is the not in this china so let's talk china. china. china a sponsor china is kind change. the nation is striving for power to become the technology of the world.
and road initiative it's twenty first century silk road it's been called by the red chinese martial plan dates back to campaign for global dominance but does the trade good way. we cannot let mutual suspicion get the better of us from. your once trade but. this has to lead to a reciprocity that we are still struggling to achieve being in the much fun of. china needs markets. european industries are increasingly falling under chinese control. it is going to create european enterprises need to get the same degree of access to the market as the chinese get in europe. china is a global player when it comes to digital infrastructure europeans have long been
familiar with the dominance of chinese giants like who away. is joining us spying on europe. none of us is naïve. china relations facing new challenges time and even a couple. there are even hardball and you said you were looking for the closest possible relationship right here or should we disregard the spying of china should we disregard the human rights situation and just go for a very close partnership close partnership includes human rights as i would say but this includes also. concentrating on the question how we can come. out and that means that we have to focus on the social issues on the economic issues on the issues of human rights but of course also on the mental issues and sadness. about that at least in the past when it comes to the human rights. and so
that really affected this effect of the question as it is maybe not enough effective but it is going into the right direction and here i see really a development in the balata relationship and we have to continue to strengthen also the attention on the human rights but even just come up with a very tough policy towards china recently score china to make a rival and with alternative forms of governance you feel that's going too far why well i wouldn't always call this assertive because some powers in europe really have to ration for the chinese state system i wouldn't go that far but i also don't want to be naive so i really want to point out that there are real challenges regarding china i really need to break up this public forum and markets china need to respect copyrights need to stop forcing this technology transfer that european companies face in europe those are challenges but those challenges don't
mean that we need to turn away from global cooperation that we need to start closing or selves to work towards the open markets because the openness and the freedom of markets that europe always showed in the past is exactly what makes you great and we should maintain this openness towards all partners in the future would you say would you agree with saying the wrong term systemic rivals well i think also what you said at the entrance that china and europe we have to work together in multilateral for like the united nations because we have a high risk time yes base our common policies on the rule of law and the rules based order and i think china could do much more now china is expanding in the united nations feels a lot of when the u.s. pulled out but i think there's a lack of can. visioning it also on human rights protection and i think now we have
five member states in the security council two permanent three nonpermanent and still china should be more cooperative for example to refer severe human rights cases like in myanmar the case of the international criminal court or the human rights council itself to find opportunities to work together but do you agree with the term systemic rivals are we wives or are we partners well i think we are partners i think the term is i don't agree with what the terminology rival is very limited to being a rival on the economic market i see the european union also as a political entity and they are we should refine our hurting and seek opportunities to work together while at the same time critiquing where we have to friend for example different values. professor who. listens of his rivals at an economic sense with china but would you argue that china is also has political
aspirations of dominance through its various projects within the playing divide and rule within the e.u. through projects like the belgian good initiative i think there was a lot of misunderstanding about the chinese. load initiatives leading if you. really consider the situation from the chinese. new. indeed a december strategy towards united states could use a reaction to the americans even to egypt so the chinese government didn't want you to go directly into front confrontation too nice a deal are you going to be the strategy to go with indeed to iran and turned to the european countries which started the year. their first. one is to find
a new way to create a new marketable chinese economy decision is to avoid a direct confrontation. the last one is to find a way to give chinese societies a new possibility to give an economic areas which is a totally separate a from the globalization new chance to quantum you could development but this project is somehow miss really misunderstand you from the whole basket or do you feel like the project is misunderstood because i understand india is not participating at all indeed categorically refusing to participate because they have a completely different understanding of one belt one road that exists or understand things and terminology to make right is a good one i think you out of stops need to stop trying to number be china they need to come up upfront and stand up for what they believe in you can't have
economic leading you by the rules so that all your values are surrendered you have to emphasize human values beyond human rights which of the you why you. don't vote because we believe or is not looking out for other country's interests political strategic and economic and we do not want the world to become kind of a stimulus package for the chinese economy. i want to also he's talking about ambassador saying is saying one should not namby pamby china and the e.u. has come up with its own asia or europe connectivity package do you think that is europe's. or border one bad one good initiative i would say that is. should but here we have to find channels to to combine these different plans etc because i would not agree totally with you. but i would say that this rivalry
understanding is just describing more than only economic violence it is a way of how we are treating each other and that is a term from the cold war times and that means we are competing each other. to break the other one economically politically etc that i think is needed in if you are looking into the global challenge into the wrong direction if for example one point four billion people in china want to live the way of you and you you are living all one point three million billion in india and one more billion and other asian countries so what does it mean for all in salsas what does it mean for the energy production what does it mean for the climate so yeah i think you have really the obligation to find channels to cooperate and i would welcome that in your participating in these different plans and we'll talk about that more later about india's india's role in that but i think it's safe to say that of
course china is much more involved nowadays in europe not only on the fringes but in the european union as well that it was in the past we prepared to tweet from that because greece obviously is one of the countries where there was a lot of investment chinese investment in the last years and this tweet is from alexis tsipras the greek prime minister i think we have that and it says meeting with the chinese president xi jinping is a bridge between east and west china and the e.u. now this. is a couple of years old but it is well it's more relevant than ever it seems and wouldn't you say professor that some people in europe could feel threatened by chinese activity as of late i think or do you feel in their perception of the chinese threat is understandable. because of two reasons the first one is we have people living. in european countries you have no experience with the country which
is on the roof of the communist party with tremendous new power resources going into the continent new. normally because you kiran the second one is misunderstanding because while you could chinese do you do you have the feeling we just come to you. only with a computer with a new projector to walk with you to good why are you reaction so. what is our rather. evil christian discussion in china also term travel with. few of china to project relief to shoot demand for b. the bridge connecting both sides with the chinese. is you calling me a project no to. be shin's. really do you agree with that because there is
a lot of concern in the about china's influence not just within europe but then eastern europe you have the sixteen point one initiative greece has now joined the sixteen plus one initiative seventeen plus one did in fact europe all these countries in the into the arms of the chinese because the. countries like greece not giving them money was a member sell the assets to willing buyers like china well i would. agree with you on one point i think china. openly used its influence and its economic ties for example with greece and conditioned it two years ago and because you depend on our economic aid or support you have not to vote to critique china in the human rights council and this kind of policy is very rational that the european side critiques this because the european union can be only strong in
multilateral fora if we speak with one voice and this was a clear take split. and i think this china should seek different forms to engage and to work together by strengthening and not weakening and if i may we shouldn't be scared of our own shadow europe is the biggest global economy we are the biggest trading block of the world we are the biggest export partner of china and we should respect ourselves with this position this is the only way to be more assertive to sit around the table with china and i'm not scared of these investments in the east in the balkans and so on because recent projects have clearly shown that china fails to deliver a lot of time you know i mean you know with the power plants in montenegro we road building so this country also understand that china has major difficulties. applying the european rules regarding procurement setting better just have example
with the knowledge transfer in the last two years you know but we see for example we to project a mountain if you will with the roads that they really to make the complexity of the local regions and i think this type of collaboration will never replace european union but it can work complimentary in certain cases but we should really look and respect our own position on a global level and not be scared of our own shadow and i want the big concerns here just like it is that when china is investing some of these eastern europe in both countries they're investing in critical infrastructure and income things which have actually limited financial resources creating what people feel is a debt trap so these companies then have a certain dependency on china which wiley's this is exactly where we need a really assertive policy and we are doing that to simply make this foreign direct investment screen system where the european union provides a framework where member states can really screen foreign investments and this will
temper china's china's eagerness to invest in strategic sectors so this. really shows that we can play on the same equal level field and if we play in this global position then we can work together with china from a europe's point of of perspective shape the world in a grow ball trading system with fair rules and open trade i think what i call the namby pamby approach i mean you see you really can't be serious. back it says china is not following global ghouls china is taking advantage of the weakness of current globalization and stepping in with the other worsham of globalization i don't think they're worried about european investment growth they are about it not even so much about the deck to create this are trying to export their we out of economic trouble it to the domestic chinese because they are trying to export to different parts of the world so this is what is dangerous to us so i think we have the story we want
to say something that i really. do believe that the chinese government. certainly china has a lot of things to improve certainly. with the government of the chinese people specially depriving a company if they go on to two european countries they do try to play with the game with the rules of the w.t. or the majority of the sea so the second point i want to make is please respect respect to the super in decision power of the european countries and the companies people doing business with china we cannot afford to underestimate the conscious decision made by different european countries. and by small eastern european countries zuckerman to see you don't mind that ok but you there's no reason for you to criticize him for them to cooperate with china because.
there are two man. and the eternal government they do have the interest and they do exactly know what did they are doing and they did do to the chinese under the tree even plane after the global rule of law so i believe we have to separate our own opinion and it in reality happened in the reality which was i want to add something to that i wondered that some of the problems here are just discussing of who made if you are carrying out for decades already know a little story t. policy cutting gone and saving etc so then the countries have no chance to invest to find money for the development of their own economies so and then i would not fear that investment coming from china or from india or from the united states or somewhere else also our only sources and that could not only be private.
private capital it must be also the states who are obliged to to develop their own economies and saying we have. to change the agenda so if you really want to do business social and. environmental challenges we have to invest together and i would stop this thinking and one against the other novi have a common obligation and here i think really that we should develop a new strategy in the global understanding and and to interfere into the way of how the economic systems and structures are functioning so we talked a lot about how europeans feel about chinese investment about the chinese role in the european union because we have the elections just around the corner i would like to know from her so good to people in your country know it all that there are you will actions absolutely maybe even then what are their expectations. different a trillion dollar european question that's been your question in china is the
discourse of political in the economy just because because of the two reasons the first one is as you just mentioned your pin you were one of the big still single market charlie. social life jobs somehow depend on the. economy the situation you've been contradicts the point much more important because the majority of the chinese think tanks and destroyed it did believe. we need a strong will prosper in stable european union. harrop. for example was awash and towards washington so they do believe we have to do every scene to keep their religion to encounter. stable so do i have did have an interest to see how do you appear in parliament work you spewed a lot of people are very worried about bricks because they believe if do you would
britain move out of you can you know what used to be big or who was what german chancellor angela merkel and to do with it future economy comparable cooperation and china where be the. partner in terms of the fire to refer to remain in of a much a national song they do have an interest to look at the start of the european elections. mr peter you've been on the continent a lot in asia. do you do you bring this two things together sometimes the elections this region that you know so much about you're so interested in well of course you see the asean countries they look carefully how the european union is developing connectivity and to work together and so they don't understand sometimes and they're disappointed that we destroy the european union from itself because the
gains by working together are obvious and that is why i feel so sorry and i also think when they look for example and countries to china and the influence in the region it is again that there is no i wouldn't say hostility but still demanding from china please strengthen our rules based order like the conflict real civil conflict in the south china sea where. hot conflict could develop then learning could how what is the european position but also referring to the court's decision actually that china should also accept the legal decision not to go for being atomic very important topic obviously the just let me get back to that one point where do you feel you will actions really matter in the region on what topic. well i think if you see in the building up of. the european
elections all those parties will have a clear racist policy against migrants and foreignness not so much against asians but if they would come also against asians this war is them because our in the center of the european union is also that we are kind of a value driven that a human being has its dignity and should not be violated if i look mean in this probably is an understanding of that in the euro. union such extreme right wings can gain so much this is very worrisome in the region is it when you talk about human rights and about protecting rights of people and the wiggers in china the muslim minority their people often. applies double standards if they have an economic interest in a country suddenly human rights don't matter like for example in china this sometimes is not often but in a country like me in ma where there's not much economic stake suddenly they jump on the human rights issue would you agree with that no i disagree and also i hear
different voices from asia it depends if you listen to government voices or civil society and human rights organizations which there are plenty of in that region i think the e.u. is too soft when they talk with china for example last week we had a summit not magically not micro not more greenies that is singing a critique and there are many human rights violations and i think this is the critique we should take in the union but i think it's not only because of if there's an. economic interest. active because also in myanmar there's a lot of economic interest by the european union to this market but the size of the violations was. huge professor drew i have good news for you because after the criticism we had from the towards china you will be able to take it back in
a second because as we can see china is a difficult topic also because of the human rights situation we won't have complete agreement here but there is an alternative maybe in asia which is india india is a big democracy. to become the most populous country overtake china but you know what am i talking about let's just watch this movie. india the world's biggest democracy and foes destroying large economy the country is thriving and matching the global player ready for global challenges. the easier it is india's first trading partner but they both want deeper cooperation in key areas. museums were faced with the same global challenges. such as china it's renewable energy and security. democratic india is jealous said felicity to the e.u. in china they would see natural positives but the relationship hasn't taken off
line. it's time for free trade agreements between the. european union. the conditions are right and the nuance the conditions are right. the e.u. and india are both strong supporters of a global order based on multilateralism and shared values in this know how is promising but easier in the relations of them tapping their full potential what secret ingredient is missing to help take this relationship to the next level. and that is a question i'm going to put to you and that's negotiating was secret ingredient is missing to bring europe and india into a level of partnership that would become in zero eight with their natural proclivity is what our democracy is not a honeymoon couple of the more and you're never want to be in there and you're a middle aged couple we need to adapt ourselves to
a long life and we need to see how our grandchildren are going to inherit this therefore i think your group needs to pick up stop looking at small important but small single minded activities and look at the broad swath of a partnership with india for instance. treat. did nothing without investment did nothing but you have you have held up the india you bilateral trade agreement for years on frankly in an italian marines i mean there will not be countries who do so we need a much bigger approach. india also needs that this should be some new spock's how about an educational partnership how about a scientific and technological partnership how about a partnership where we bring change to the world and gives people the common values that we must look at beyond security and treat sound sensible. i have
a different approach because i think where the partnership really holds is a lack of ambition on india's right we already negotiating about the free trade agreements with india for almost more than ten years and it's india who fails to deliver commitments to open its markets to show commitments regarding sustainable development and labor policies this is not from europe sides we want to invest we want to go there but now you see them go back into there's a new flagship from india made in india program and i think that if we would. be able to attract european investments into india that would be a benefit for beneficiary for both sides investment for europe could bring economic engine growth could be job creation in india so this would actually be in this program of made in india but elective english or emission is not from europe but in india that will shortz the e.u. has come up with a new strategy for india do you share. that pockets news that. this
position is also on the stand. because i think to some both positions so of course in india there must be also is a chance for india to get a development on its own if you are looking for food and food guaranteeing for everybody in such a continent as india and of course they have the right to look. in the national approach to do this all of the other hand i would say we have to look into developing them isolator trading system instead of only looking into bilateral agreements with china we are just negotiating already also for six years investment protection agreement which is a huge agreement and where we mean you should include treated sustainable development ship that must be also realized in such a free trade agreement with india but that means we have to understand what are the
routes what are the standards for that and this we have to develop within the beauty was system because the w.t. who is changing its its nature today and in the twenty first century and the second or third decade already so we have climate social issues human rights political stability to be also a benchmark for shaping his tweet because traitors today about production and consumption but already there is trouble as you mention investor with alcoholic beverages i believe it was also risky because of because of the united kingdom that . easier. if you have some concrete requests that you would like to form a way towards india what's that well as i see it i think india has very good structures and laws on human rights constitution and so on the biggest problem is in the implementation in the huge disparity between rich and many many very poor and how
to overcome this and i think when ever the european union is planning and going further to do a free trade agreement they have to do a human rights impact assessment first because i remember when i think it was also when he traveled to india actually he traveled to china and stopped in and he made a public press conference and said over to free trade agreement now all the initiatives dealing with for example the right to health they looked into what would this mean if european companies produce expensive pharmaceutical medicine on each i we in india then the market for those indian companies who produce a cheaper is lost and then what about the poor people so all these issues i think i would have nothing with you feel more comfortable with india as a trading partner of the you than with china where it is a question i cannot answer because i think it's the wrong question because i think
if what is best for the people in the respective countries or region and trade is not perceived better or good. i would say that in china the problem is that the governments does not tolerate critique and is very strong and strict against minorities this week we will have a lucian on the weaker situation again in india and both countries i have to say that enormous progress in fighting poverty which is essentially the number one about the. in india it is more easier because the government seems a little bit more relaxed with the critique but the biggest problem is there in the implementation i think that's also the main issue which drives elections in fact you know that he was been talking for a long time building close relations with india a strategic partnership which they already have talked about turning common principles into common interests in fact let me just read out
a quote from this was. back in two thousand and seventeen i'm more convinced than ever that india and the e.u. become. the kinds of democracy and tolerance must shape the words together and in the new policies and strategies statement which has come out of the e.u. this talk about the e.u. welcoming a multi-polar and a professor who how do you feel about this concept of the multipolar because the other has the rival india in the region in asia and china we would do her a multi-pronged. structure construction in terms of. development. india china japan another country did do they are very. independent so you european countries are talking about structure partnership for what
i think for european countries maybe the idea is to create a new venue a community against the possible return. correlation between russia and china maybe the seven point structure partnership to india to move to reform the country move in direction of. me so i have to feel any. expectation of brass or of of. friends wars. seem to be true too quick. don't forget india has began the economy the reform twenty years later in china about ninety at the beginning of ninety that means there was a lot of a bureaucratic. almost. to be removed and that is that was the reason
why the implication while the implementation has gone very very slow so you know i do believe you can petition of european countries are totally post-modern country towards india and china they are correct to rise to buy. of patients you know we need more time when you more time in european given for china but also for india so there is a cat between the two levers of development where africa do you believe that the exit could be that. would work in favor of you having to the times within certainly not because the u.k. was always a bigger partner and that was always in favor of free markets open markets and this is a partner we might lose so this will have a big impact and the european union we need to be way more assertive towards these trading partners but something that is often left out of this debate is that
a strong global position actually starts which are all which our own internal the size of an s. and if we sit across the table with trading partners and they see that we in europe we have huge internal debts that we have a very weak immigration policy that we always hesitate to face or terror threats we need to show the world that we can face or own challenges we need to show that we can handle our own threats and this is how we can be a strong partner on the global level and also gain more respect. maybe with a little heavier a little addition here because. here just mention of course is important how does india feel about let's say the threat of more. more and more right wing populus coming into the european parliament with the upcoming elections does that play a role. i think you must pardon me on that india's believe with all elections and the same day by the way twenty third say we have to start right now i don't think we are taking too much of other people's elections but all elections are important
because you get an article lucian off the human mind and more free of the human mind the better the articulation so yes the results of the european lection really help us to form our what he calls ambition two words the european union but don't expect india to give all the gains of the w to you and us no movement into the climate change support into becoming support of the globalization at the threshold of an agreement with the european union we're just not going to do it we need your help to protect those gains not use them now i think he needs them back it makes an interesting point i think india and europe need to work together on security cooperation in dealing with nontraditional traits we have done it in piracy we need to do more on terrorism we need to do it on illegal migration we need to do it on drugs and we need to do it on cyber security and on money laundering these are the
real treat human borders don't matter here we just need european understanding and on the ground operation i think this year i have seen much more positive european reaction of the many members in the security council that we mentioned in support of these range you're talking about security had mutual shows in the news that you from the e.u. they want to have closer defense ties with india this talk about joint military exercises there's talk about having a military envoy in india and vice a versa do you think europe needs to be a little more assertive in terms of how security. no i fully disagree with this position because this is just misleading so if you're put in a bubble of people she said that we should judge also the human rights situation from the perspective of citizens and not only from the functioning of the state of
the system and i think if you're speaking about security issues that we have to first of all to deal with the social equal chances for everybody in our society because it is the fear of going into poverty which is one of the stimulus for the right populist parties in the european union. can only be tackled if we are developing our economies or societies opening up for chances for everybody also for women which is alone and taking care of voters or the man who is doing the same issue so i mean this is a problem and you will be seeing you have to organize a cooperation between india and you can union between china and your opinion or taking other countries of the asian continent for example in the free trade agreement with japan we agreed to include the quiet progress of the data protection
regulations and laws of the opinion as a benchmark also for the by a little cooperation in the states and i think this could be also an example for the cooperation of china if you're dealing with investment agreements we've had some fascinating insights to love would not be want to have maxim fun and games yes i hope it's fun for everybody so you only get to answer with one word for the following i think we have two questions the first one is what are you looking for in the outcome of the e.u. elections which part of the e.u. elections are you really looking at the best support to globalization. respect the rule of law. democratization reinforcement of much in a really small safety and competitiveness ok which of the things that grow because he was the only one who gave a one would have a second question to you finish the sentence your hope and asia. not in global cooperation. need a child or two or a prom different a complicated sheets or a common future time needs to ever equal of any player feel the. need and
support each other handed hand hand in hand thank you very much as fascinating it was great to have all the few on this is why granting a discussion about the election then why they should matter to asia thank you very much and i don't want to feel when i think you might be listening to max elfman and me thank you very much for your company it was great to have you with us and of course stick around in the next months or weeks actually because like i said in the beginning the world actions are just around the corner and we hope to see you there on d w when we cover this important event for the european union.
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