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tv   Special Program  Deutsche Welle  April 26, 2019 9:15am-10:01am CEST

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skeptical. the goals of the revolution are not negotiable determined to implement them in full well only discussing how to reach these goals. distrust runs deep after thirty years of dictatorship the protesters say they'll stay here until their demands are met. coming up next elections mean for africa. down with leaders from business and politics to talk about. it with. the campaigns for the. swing. of the last session of this particular europe because we'll have
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a new one. and the result of that election is going to be closely monitored in africa this is the continent a chance years of a complex relationship with europe you elections why they matter for go. for. the song facebook. for. welcome the campaigns the different campaigns for the european elections are in full swing and we are here at the last plenary session of this particular european parliament because there will be a new one coming maybe and that is being noticed outside of the european union as well that's why we will discuss today e.u. elections why they matter to africa and that's an outcome of those elections that
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will be closely monitored in africa this is a continent that has after all she had a long and complex relationship with europe so stick with us and our debts we have a great panel here to my right over there. who's a member of the basically social democratic faction in the european parliament by the way all. experts here on the panel and says it is time to rebuild a new partnership between the e.u. and africa turning the pages of the past and to my left we're joined by venue angry she is the managing director of german african alliances connects small and medium enterprises in germany and africa and she says that it's time for the s.m. used to enter the african market for long term investment and on an eye level. over to my left a member of the biggest party of the european parliament the conservative e.p.a. likely to remain the biggest party also in the european parliament and he says
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africa needs europe to set clear political priorities to face common challenges to the benefit of both and last but not least we're joined by dr. he is the director general for the small and medium enterprises agency of nigeria and he says that the e.u. should do more in good governance in africa by stopping corrupt money getting to europe from africa he also adds that we should treat africa as equal partners in trade so you can tell we have a lot of different experts here also on small medium enterprises and there's a reason for that because of course one of the main topics between africa and the european union is trade and there are different reasons they go way back why this is complicated we tried to break it down for you. africa advanced and does this continent home to some one point three billion people africa
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has massive potential. coffee cotton and by so natural resources africa has a lot of. it it has the world's youngest population africa's potential seems soundless. africa because. it's because of its biggest trading its biggest provide. yet africa's economy is still on the debit side of life and how much does this have to do with europe. free trade is the centerpiece of e.u. policy africa gets access to the european market but needs to open its markets for european products and often can't compete officially the e.u. now advocates an equal partnership. it has been customary for too long for europeans to lecture africans. so that over. african leaders don't want charity they want recently that you change jobs. africa
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should be able to transform these raw materials and to provide labor for youth. retrain is the e.u. robbing africa of its future. and that's a question where we're going to pick up and i want to throw that question to you dr we've heard that africa has massive potential but is it robbing africa or through free trade no we have to look at the menu is first of all we know the fork but he has been very strong but to not to africa and this has. been the colonial time and we need to dip in that kind of relationship but i think it did more harm or more good no i think we need to do it in a group went so that africa. be able to benefit from it what i'm saying in essence is africa is an export like jelly or oil and gas to europe but we
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import primary goods the primary goods to produce an africa from really good should be produced in africa companies european companies has to establish an africa to utilize the room materials available in africa so that there will be creation of jobs for our timmy youth and there will be also equal opportunity in terms of the economy to blog men and prosperity of our people in africa why doesn't the you do that i mean we hear a lot that you wanted to do this but if you look at the legislation it always seems to favor european companies exactly because you are a piece of working for europe and they don't care about something else than europe so it's necessary to have with us african people african civil society african elected people. make making advocacy for having more for africa and you feel like you're doing enough in that sense i think it's not enough for the moment because we are dealing with past european partnership agreements from the past and
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from the past is just guaranteeing that europe is having room and cheers and europe is entering the markets of africa and i think this is a mistake we have to have a win win situation and african people needs to have development with trade agreements and this is what we have to discuss with african people for the new new partnership and not only economic partnership but new partnership with africa so we have a new difficult but this is happening you know mary is saying that the old model is outdated do we have something new and is it working i mean the question of the fairness of the free trade agreement is very central very important and when we consider the evolution of. if richard's agreement and now i can say that we are in a good way actually we've also as was mentioned because i think that there is two
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central principles which are very important first of all this because it's enabled it would be it will enable. country also to export their goods without any being a new duty is and also. it is something that large. second one it is this question of sustainability because if used think about the free trade agreement of the two knew it would be the twenty twenty and if you have something sustainable and don't have a limit it also can promote investment and say ok we'll think in long term investment and it could also bring some investment is it is at the end what we'd want to have more investment create more jobs within the well the european commission is certainly thinking about sustainability in saying that the focus between relations is shifting towards knowledge sharing and responsible
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investment can you give me examples where you feel this is working. so yes i mean this know how to answer is a very key features and for instance i'm here i was presenting at the view the end of the nation and we also speak a lot with our members and and difficult question though training and the know how transfer is the key. the key things that they want to give investment to african countries over to mr god are you going to many african countries you know the continent from the european perspective when we hear all this it also sounds very nice all these initiatives so little complicated but isn't that the case that most people on the ground in the african countries you consider don't really experience all that well first of all i think if you look at the point of departure of trade wise we have these existing schemes it's the
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economic partnership agreement and the everything but arms initiative for thirty two of the least developed countries which of a quarter free access to a market that is a new the one side i think indeed we must shift towards. a new approach and that would tell in my mind to combine the efforts to have good governance in given countries and to be really for those on the education side in order to provide the workforce that is actually needed in africa for the future and then also come with credits both for african entrepreneurs and ours who dat shall i say to invest in africa who have got the experience yet and in this regard i think such initiatives. as amy's if we can combine that first the education and vocational training and then incoming investment then can contribute to an added value that the cocoa is not exported but becomes chocolate in africa coffee beans become
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roasted coffee in africa and. the cotton becomes textiles in africa to add value and then market access to us i think that is the the proper way that we should be heading for i think i think it is really important to realize one part because in us much as long as we establish a near opium company in africa a lot of people would learn that to come out of the g.m. both a lot of people will experience from the people who came from europe but we've been hearing this you have been hearing this for decades now and it's clearly not working in some countries so what needs to change i don't think it's not working is like not being made because this thing is being more the tory than actually because most of the things that i've been talking about on this partnership is something that is happening or a tory thing because things that are being completed they keep on seeing see in
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these things but that is no practical thing on ground all right mr prime minister the fact that europe has to really help africa in area of. civil wrote good governance and african countries are doing very well in the area of good governance accountability as well as to see that democracy is in the us is to somebody well we'll get to that we'll get to that in a second i just want to have a look at what steve rather emmanuel mccall the president of france said on this issue he says in a tweet steve jobs father was a syrian refugee it would seem that nationality has nothing to do with the ability to succeed if you think that being an eye jury and means you can't succeed then you want if you fight and you do succeed you will be a role model so i want to come to you actually marry because they really fit in your head do you not believe in what the president is saying no because it's not only a question of will i think that sometimes some companies are destroying the will of
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people in african country if i take for example in nigeria you know that the most important part of the oil in nigeria is just exported in europe to be treated in europe and really sent to africa and there is no agreement to prevent deciduous and for example what we asked for and cindy is to have to sing is the trade agreements the first thing is to have an symmetrix situation with country like nigeria and to give them to opportunity to have quotas to to keep some room a cheerios and to be sure that this raw materials are perceived in the contrary this is the first thing the second thing that we have to ask for is to have jus diligence coming from big companies in this country because it is not because you are in big companies in this country that you are respecting people or climate so we have to have this due diligence system in this car for these companies many to
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national when they are countries so we have to control them as mr gather called due diligence sounds very bureaucratic or you. board well i would say from our side as far as our companies and our international companies are concerned we should really put appropriate pressure on them to behave not only to the standards that we have in our countries but also to say the laws that exist in the country ok and action and it will have nothing and we have should be finding it not to if you find not to give them incentive it would be binding if you have if you have a situation that. some of our companies still think that they can buy their. permits or that they can bribe officials that is we have to overcome name and shame and make it transparent in this regard there are initiatives that publish what you pay or extractive industries transparency initiatives that should contribute to
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transparent way of of doing business in africa and i think all right i'm sorry mr guy let me get to north of there is due diligence the european canal boat i totally disagree because most of the european leaders most of the this continent european companies that are in africa most of the corrupt african leaders get twenty mutal from these companies and this is how because we can just understand because most of the money that has been stolen from africa by our leader has been stashed in europe and the european companies are responsible for this and i don't think there is any due diligence you are talking about the most important thing that we need to do in africa is if we want to dip in this relationship is there should be an open agreement and disagreement between africa and europe on certain aspect that leads to our blood on the ground that there are certain partnerships and agreements which
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are on the table awaiting signatures from settled country and so it seems that africa has the opportunities but simply is not taking the africa doesn't have that opportunity because those agreement about. you know about this agreement that we put on people but most of the reality conditions are new rupie and contras put their programs of power over a tea pot head to africa we are not. put unity we are not equal partners here from africa what we are asking is simply that whatever you are going to do we should have mutual agreement should be a strategic plan for the blog meant taking into consideration of people taking into consideration though because this isn't normal isn't normal i think we i was going to come to you isn't that normal that the european union puts its interests first and it's up to the africans to organize their interests to for example create a single market so you are talking about fairness and we are also talking about win
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win situation it means that both of the parties have to to gain something at the end so i will i will come back maybe to that because i mention it. one of the part of one of the benefits of this agreement you cannot make partnership agreement essentially agreements are between the u.s. and countries and countries is also this promotion of the shared values it means that to have standards standards to to have good governance to work together so that we have a united for sure it is a love to do and it's not only all countries. know that nigeria for instance is not. the same it. was no but kenya was also a good example of that said they implemented so they are some notes but now we have to also gets to specific a specific italy to see why for instance nigeria is not yet. clear is
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because so little bill dealing. who is double dealing with the europe because there should be that and that is what is largely creating mistrust if you are going to do with. africa as an entity but i have a key happened to accept an african agenda on an african free trade area and also to adapt our plans our regional agreements to do what you planned because i think it's we have profited as europeans amongst hours trading amongst ourselves that this has made us strong and wealthy and i would wish that this african agenda to have a free trade area into africa that that is being supported from our side and one more thing or it by if they want know if they if africa wants to protect itself from us they could already prior to having their own integration they could erase set up
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a pan african customs tariff that applies in all of africa european and american or imports that would protect africa efficiently and we could not work one against the other if that if they were in agreement with themselves in this regard for the room seems happy you know in fact in the eco us region for example they are working on the internal market for this region and what europe did is because of nigeria blocking and why nigeria is blocking this pass is just because they said they want to protect infant industry and it's normal it is the way to have industry in your country for a moment to protect them and after to open your country nigeria is asking for this and europe saying no and what europe did is just going to ghana and going to walk and saying if nigeria say no we are dealing with you separately and so we are
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destroying the internal internal market of africa and if you see for example with all the remains that we have to. in africa and europe for a long time ago we don't have this increasing of xchange between africa and europe so what do you expect what do you want the next european parliament concretely to do what is important is really not to be it will create on this and to support the internal markets of africa because i think is for us it means is more important to have this into an internal market to have the market with europe and second thing is to have a pass that respects what african countries are asking for for their development for people living in africa not for multi-national that are coming from europe being in africa that is all step by step implemented as a long time scale there are transitional times and there must be an effort also also to integrate amongst themselves africa must tear down its internal borders
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simply to become a trader and in in vestment and in creating jobs that are out there is this easier said than done i mean you did say that europe is double dealing dealing with ecowas separately and you want them to deal with an african area really it is not being given because we are going to africa and europe are not equal. because africa house appropriation of about one point to be neutral possible politico about five hundred million i know you look at g.d.p. g.d.p. oh obama's have been ten trillion dollars africa you find it g.d.p. less than three trillion and now that you're talking about. allow me if you're talking a lot more unity excuse me let's give us more opportunity when it comes to even broader look at it the opportunity european one has to go to africa is quite higher than the opportunity and africa has to come to europe because when you go to the
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embassies you see the kind of. treatment the european embassies were given to offer it will get to migration in just a second i want to challenge all of something like you said about dr adams and i'm going to jump in and ask for a question you talked about figures and the e.u. being able to trade it huge quantities but the e.u. is also trading with each other interest in you trade is that seventy percent and intra africa trade is at sixteen percent we are not trading with each other so the question is why do we expect trade with the e.u. to be better if we can't handle it ourselves you know you have to understand one simple thing we trade in order for us to gain and we gain more when we trade from this perspective but the most important thing for us to understand even for europe to understand that is and if it. the property level in africa has the effect on europe because of the proximity the close us point broke the timidity in terms of geo political area only miles between. africa so the
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question if that is problem in nigeria if that is problem no wonder if that is a problem in somalia that is embody a problem in europe so what we are trying to do is give was equal opportunity tried to give was on this demo interest and so that our prosperity has. effect preventing you from corporation closer with each other if you have them soon in africa we are not preventing that but if there are hiccups we are happy to do support because we have got experience in this regard gratian regional integration in africa and finally continental free trade area ok that is the original and i want to now look at the impact of some of these interconnections that dr rather was talking about free movement of persons you've heard him say here that it can be humiliating sometimes for an african to try and gain access to europe even when they're doing it regularly but what happens when it's irregular the issue of
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migration has been a hot button issue for both africa and europe and here's why. migration one of the toughest challenges facing. the issue of refugee resettlement deeply divines the european union the e.u. failed to rein in infighting among its members it's impossible to let everybody across borders not in a way which is clearly clarified. the new continues to depend on deals with countries like turkey because it has not come up with a solution for sharing. that is one of the reasons behind europe's new top priority helping africa to get on its feet in order to curb the flow of migrants to see this development aid and a larger african leaders to deal with its citizens in a way that african youth has a chance. this means both public investment and private
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investment. your concept would be to be chain migration issue continues to give rise to right wing and see european populist movements. you know finally the e.u. will get back to the friends of quarters and the right for security of its european citizens should. the european union and africa remain on depression how can they shape their common future. isn't a migration crisis the best thing that could have happened to africa in the last year is because they put it on the map in european discussions with europeans have to do something first of all for all people concerned in this migration it's a tragedy because everybody in principle wants to stay at home and have a good living there so the fact that people are leaving out of desperation mostly
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not out of bed terrorism or even vote and i'm talking about the political. yes you never really talked about africa before the migration crisis in this well that's well i wouldn't go so far but i think indeed we have to deal with africa in a different way and it's good that we do not limit our discussions on this migration issue which is an important one but that we see it in the long term perspective and that we discuss about the issues like the economy that we had in the previous panel but i think we could as europeans as you my responsibility of course in addressing it in a way that of course we cannot take every person that is in need into europe but we should categorize we should see who is personally persecuted as a political asylum seeker who is under the geneva conventions as of war refugee and who comes for if you leave economic reasons and in this field i think we have to
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open a slight door for legal migration in order to focus the people on the legal opportunities and on his own we seems to think we need more than just a slight door opening for sure so for your question was also. if this migration also opened the door and said that now it should be in the engine and for sure as you said mrs merkel is not that only tale to tell us and fifteen the question of africa is now but i can say that now we are moving from this policy of development aid to something else we have promoting with private sector and. doing searching over ways to solve this problem and now i can really say that. you are the agent of the. german government the private sector is really on the agenda it is like
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a way to put also. opportunities are to create of a chain arranged in africa to deal with immigration because as he said nobody wants to go to to europe because it's fine so i want to come to you mr and because we're talking about policies that started in twenty fifteen but we too long to start having conversely this conversation between europe and africa i think that we have to have to wear that we need as you pin more africa that africa needs europe and this is really important because the only thing that we see is just seeing this poor people living africa coming to europe but you know. the most important mobility in africa is in africa within africa and it's very different countries in africa and we are just dnd of the process but this is the most important mobility situation is in africa and if we are not aware of the fact that we need africa and
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we spoke about. but also martin and we are just in the wrong way of thinking africa and so for me it's important to have two things the first is there a legal way for mobility i don't or you agree with mr gallagher i don't speak of us migration because you know when you have young students coming from africa coming in europe to university what they want to do is to go back to africa and to big businesses and to have example health care and we're talking about if we're talking about regular migration those who are coming here from pressure economic or otherwise first thing is the mobility and i think that europe was an open europe for the moment we are close you were up we don't want to have foreigners in europe this is the first thing and we have to reopen europe for african people not only for students but also for some workers and this relationship with africa to sing
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and sing is humanitarian she. gratian and we as you are but all the continent we left humanitarian citizen asking for protection and this is the way we have to to to put in the hands of these people and to say you are then coming out on me and this is something else but we don't have to mixed this to situation we have to make our duty on humanitarian help as are you know sort of human rights in that are the right wing populist seem to mix i mean the engine is very important and before we come over to you mr god dr radha are you following. the run up to the european elections where a lot of right wing populist that are making their living off of the topic of migration are poised to make significant gains and what do you think about that i think before we get to that we have to understand the fog but. africans migrate
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into europe. because we have an economic situation in africa that needs to be addressed by our league which we talked about that is ostensibly nancy is that to let me that's very important to me let tell me how you feel about the possibility of people of parties gaining significant votes in the european elections because they almost exclusively campaigned on the topic of migration yet because the to say thing to europe because that is a new trend all over the wall of nationalization. kountry is becoming more national kountry is becoming more solve recognize doing since on their own ways and that is why you see that british ones who go out of europe you see a lot of other counters wanting to be. that has many fest it's also it being in the not just it you can see the nationalization is springing off even africa
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you see a lot of elections have taken place on the government opposition opposition parties were taken obama governments because people need a new lease of life people need a new life new government new people have hope and they are looking for web those hopes will call for and this is the kind of sins we are looking for from europe and it is very important for the relationship between africa and europe but the most important thing let's do it was mutual agreement remove util means to move from conditionality and sanctions and try to focus. on understanding i'd really meant this agreement which i would surely understand and i'm not sure but i think mr gul i disagree with that unconditionally i mean first the responsibility for the well being of african citizens and we had from the president obasanjo has some years ago
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he said who's responsible for the unemployed youth in africa first of all it's. as africans yes if you your rulers assume their responsibility first i'm very happy to support all those who really undertake efforts to improve the. first rule. is you have never done any significant change in the life of the people of my. policy specifically yeah i mean i guess what the struggle is trying to say that africans should ideally be responsible for african found and of course and. i am as i said very much i am very much prepared to assist an african agenda to improve the situation and when it comes to to the migration issues unfortunately for the populists this is low hanging fruit for their campaign but be sure if they were not the african migrants they would find national
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minorities and if that were not them they would find others to to put people against each other so that is. a problem so it's for them it doesn't matter who is bad but unfortunately migrants are the lowest hanging fruit for this and i talked about african and european problems will go along he said so like gratian who are coming from africa ok is that an african problem so i think that what you're saying talking about so why national nationalism of countries and i think that it's also because we said that africa is the neighbor saw of europe and europe and europe is very close to africa but they don't know each other actually and i think that the media they also have. part of the ever specifically to the ways they put on this issue when this migration flow west there and it puts also like as mary has said it's not that the first destination was europe it was weaving africa and
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europe but i think that we. strength. this situation so far that even that extends well they're all coming to my country we have to do something have to close the voters and stuff so i think that first of all we have to to know each other and europe and europe have to know what it's africa now. actually we need it why because you see in africa there is the most young people and this those people are not people that is a very well educated and they have a lot of parts left to give and we should come to that positive part in just a second i would like to wrap up the part who's to blame actually because there's always a lot of blame game between africa and the european union with a tweet from the rwandan president paul kagame me if somebody who doesn't really mince his words very clear tweets always and he tweeted if you look at history of this migration for
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a long time europe was inciting inviting people to go to europe the message was your countries of africa are governed badly and you should come to us that the message you heard you. think i think. africa. generally needs. what we needed because of religion issue is so emotional why is it emotional is because is the. name so we need to help africa do a lot the issue all africa should do blood is so we need to be. we need to cut the oars hold our hunts try to see how they can help those to do below in terms of good governance they should be encourage they should be encouraged elicit funds from africa into europe they should as much as possible try
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to be part of this funds back to africa because that a lot as specially in nigeria know that a lot of corrupt money in europe that are touching european banks that it won't be and countless refuse to depart let those money back to africa we need to hold in europe need to hold of rekha really need to support african larry you need to have a mutual understanding between india agree with this africa need handholding we have to come and shoot the two important reasons for migration massive migration inside africa and also outside africa whoa. lack of peace in some countries and the second one is the climate change these are the most important reason for migration even more than economic situation even more than economics are there isn't the only life here is a life nobel but if you if you speak about massive migration displaced people it's
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peace lack of peace and climate change and we are we have a part of responsibility together on this on the climate change so we have to work together on this help africa to go to the transition for the climate change and also help africa to go to a general critique we of governance in the country and peace so i think that we need to get or it's not because africa needs europe we need to get or to go in this path of climate change and peace. is a together to fight climate change one example but we've heard from we already that she thought there might be a little potential for something going beyond there and i like to put the question that's part of mr gollop isn't africa with all those young people who want to work who want to learn and the aging europe the perfect partner for the future yes i would definitely agree i mean this is
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a neighboring continent this huge potential and that has to be put in a system that really this potential can be realized and it starts with. the issues that we addressed before good governance and investment encouraging signs there i see more and more african intellectuals and youth and civil society in many countries that address these issues and they get governments under threat i mean we've seen it for twenty years in zimbabwe as one example unfortunately the regime was stronger still and you can go through many. countries . long sitting. presidents think that they have a future i think actually they don't but the people are in a. position to. change and if that goes ahead i think we should stand by and actively pursue this. to
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get the development done i think there is enough intelligence and enough will among through society and the young people in europe in africa and we should come in and support that so we have a new we've been talking about boundless potential a young population getting even younger but at what point do we realize this potential is it an infinite state of being so. this potential is there and because of the lack of opportunities maybe in their countries it is not possible to to. to take them and to explore this opportunity and this young so the problem now of the question now is how to deal with this situation and we talk about vocational training and what. maintain for that so if you're very active in. working out we come back to that i would say that on the level you
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have. mobilized for instance this. training for entrepreneurs so we really have to encourage the readers to to to to just build these people working. and on the rug i mean it's not that it's not a lot we have to to make a lot of them so that it can work i have made the and example in the town of synagogue that cars every small slum it is called baca and in this town there is about two thousand. people living there and what did. german to me because it is really private things just said we have to to transform this area to . step sufficient city so that at the end can be sufficient and the young people can have a future and what what what happened so enterprises left campus comes to big
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companies from the bakery area they come there and just give the know how to make their careers and a lot of is the music we're part of it and now building a new town from this to new one and this is of practical alright a practical example that's also positive and that concludes our conversation right here at least for now we're entering what max actually believes is the most fun part of this conversation but he also warned me that his german so he was a jury of. different ok let's go quick fire around next to the first yes we have actually you're allowed only to say one word as an answer to what i'm going to do it usually works we will start over here and we'll go clockwise ok so i'll start with the question is what are you looking for what are you looking at in the outcome of the european elections. so one word. inclusion exclusion. reason prevails let's invest
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in our first invest and for investment solidarity i'll give you a little bit more leeway for my question and so the following sentence europe and africa are partners. depending on each other. the. the the. ok i will give you five seconds. now you have to go though no i think the right foot is one word we have twenty seconds later part is ok and i think that's a fantastic way to conclude this discussion ended rather positively you wouldn't have thought that at the beginning of this discussion with a lot of tension but we thank you both thank you all for your time thanks for being here of course stick around with the w. for expenses coverage of the european elections in the.
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they believe in a peaceful coexistence with egypt come to christian. i think there is enough resources in the one word. living in a predominantly muslim country in every circumstance you will hear the word caught up with despite attacks by islamist fanatics they're holding fast to their religious convictions. a journey to the car. in seventy five minutes. to the terrorist. do it yourself or her. closet don't miss out.
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this is deja vu news live from berlin and now says the suspected mastermind of the easter sunday bombings died in the attacks but the government warns of more possible strikes this as authorities significantly reduce the death toll to last sunday's attacks on six hotels and churches look at walk from colombo. also coming up china.


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