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tv   Conflict Zone  Deutsche Welle  May 17, 2019 12:30am-1:01am CEST

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we're going to have some climate impacts which are greater. it's really frightening. why are people more concerned. to 1st. the trial of cattle and separatist leaders over their failed independence has laid bare some stock divisions in spanish society not least over the justice system my guest this week here in madrid is spain's foreign minister use that burrell how does he answer the charge that the trials are fundamentally unfair. i.
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use a bar of welcome to conflicts. that can last a year a lady called come a fall was the president of the catalan parliament she was arrested charged with rebellion when she was interviewed last december she was spending 15 hours a day in her cell in solitary confinement is this really the image of spain that you want to show the rest of the world. this is a judiciary decision. to hold. people under control or another to avoid them to escape from the justice like a grandmother. in a prison convicted of nothing by this enjoy joyce the presumption of innocence before her. everybody who did preventive jail enjoys the presumption
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of innocence instead of 30 percent of the people who are in jail on preventing that then again it's hard not to see her incarceration as the action of a vindictive state setting out to punish defendants they should. be enjoying this presumption of innocence and how to present a very innocent there's nothing to vote with your on record as saying that you wish some of those pretrial detention were free you said this time said exactly that they would had. the judge could have found another way of preventing them from escaping the action of justice you said there were other methods that could have been used you said there were other methods that could have been mute here so this was unfair treatment. in your view no. you'd have preferred to see them
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out of pretrial we know another thing from a new say thing that they haven't said. understand a national calling to the use of pretrial detention is justified only when there is no alternative measure which would insure the interests of justice you have said there are alternative measures so it is unfair well look if the judge has decided to these measures because he thinks it has to do so i am not going to. this side in the plates of judges in spain just in that month and then they take their decision by home i understand that already and if maybe mr put him on had an escape maybe they could take another kind of measures do you know that with him on and on the us has been escaping justice but you know that there are very few people who know that or listen to them explain that but it's not your role you tell me the
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courts are independent but it's not your role to turn a blind eye to serious questions and doubts about the way your judicial system is functioning isn't it because you came to power your government came to power promising to transform. space my point to you is keeping people in lockdown in solitary confinement for 15 hours a day. to some of her confinement 15 hours a day 63 year old grandmother convicted of nothing but excuse me why do you say convicted of nothing do you know about the conviction in this case i start thinking that you don't anything about it she hasn't been convicted of anything as she's been charged but she has no charge convicted well let's. stop it we're going to stop this interview and this i mean if you're going
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to do like these are you stop it. you are not going to have a thing me going to be wearing me. so you were in me trying to police no i'm not a subject of any kind of inquiry or from your side i understand that the right questions and let me talk if not you stop it absolutely ok i just don't. look. you came to power to modernize and. last year the e.u. scorecard which measured public trust in the independence of national courts and judges put spain in 23rd place on the list of member countries below portugal hungary and romania how do you feel about that spain ranking among the 20 best democracies and. according with. the
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journey of. the economist. i think it's being classified. as a being. but the truth is when it comes to the charges of rebellion against the defendants there has been a substantial outcry both here and abroad present that last november more than $100.00 legal experts in spain signed an open letter condemning the charge of rebellion in the council didn't move you why don't you lead the judges made their work i'm asking your opinion i'm in spain. how do you think that the decision of the german court which refused to extradite the former catalan leader. on the charge of rebellion how how do you think that affected the
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credibility of the case against him because the german court said the amount of violence required for the charge of treason which is the closest they have to rebellion was not seen. in breach of the public peace they said does not apply because the mark was only involved in carrying out the independence. of the german judge. it's a blow to your case. which at the time. of the journey the course was the court was basically saying that your central charge against the catalan defendants doesn't hold up. this is the job and i don't know how. the situation. but who has to judge it is painted court. suggestions here not going to get
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a fair trial the professor of constitutional law at civilian. royo said i would like to be wrong but the way in which the october 1st case has proceeded so far inevitably points to a guilty verdict the trial will be a farce even though they will abide by all the legal procedures while it's being held the verdict has already been written it's a chilling accusations. just that. just that when you learn agree with the association of judges for democracy about the appointment of some of the leading figures in this case very very much bias the whole of lot of the people who criticizes the judges i can barely hear other people who has other. there may be other views but there's been a damaging criticism there's the. it's a 3rd time how your man showing you this same hands in spain judiciary is in
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power let them do their work. the month accused you of contributing to the increase in hate he said when you were appointed foreign minister this gesture they had in mind in order to send us a message of fraternal deescalation the fact that you have been you a castle and have been dead set against catalonia independence. was this a message of fraternal deescalation. can you tell me why mr bush is saying these kind of things i can't i can't read his mind i am asking where the asking whether you agree with it not sure not why should i try to defend myself of that because they should when mr put them on if you are unable to say in beijing is there. if you how do you have the right this thing of the year while you are talking about do
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you want to deescalate the situation a bit this got a thing for the situation there's a government has been making to be careful to know that the discovery of this situation and implementing and the old kind of measures in order to make things go into normal again but we cannot give to them that the people could wait to go to the nation as they are asking for because it is against this business crusty to show that this has nothing to do with international law why not have a debate about the constitution and constitutional rights. that could have touched on those provisions which outlaw independence 1st polish regions could have done it they put up a bond for the spanish barlow and imprisoned of reform because by the basque bit they haven't done it why didn't you do it do you are you not interested in reforming the constitution who is asking for it 70 percent those manuals warlords
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little judicial reform according according to the center for sociological research so much you're so. eager to know what a lying. the center for sociological research has said word 70 percent of spaniards want constitutional reform of some college are some kind of some god. forbid rebel boy finish what donald finish i don't want to do that anymore. minister in november the human rights commissioner of the council of europe wrote to the senate and the congress of deputies pressing for serious amendments to the so-called law on citizens' safety i know that your government promised meaningful
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changes to this law but you haven't delivered them of the i've been visiting this the consul. he was not complaining at all and he said that this pain is usually 1st considered attending death and then one performing a calling with human approachable. so there was no christmas or you didn't read the letter was sent there you had an interview with them and they went with them and. i don't think there is criticism about the functioning of the spanish but you didn't you didn't change the law or do you promised meaningful changes to you haven't i don't know exactly what you were talking about the general terms their consideration the. concert will make about this pain you see are very good what the commissioner wrote was in this letter i find it disturbing that according to the minister of interior 27000 alone more than 21000 sanctions have been imposed on the
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grounds of lack of respect or consideration for police officers and the articles that can easily be interpreted he said in an arbitrary manner and thus have a chilling effect on freedom of expression well you have a bias approach to this you to nations pay what they can tell you is the just different branch court has had much less cases with respect to spain to many other countries the court of human rights european court of human rights decided that a number of basque separatists didn't get a fair trial. you confirmed that doesn't help the argument does it no it doesn't have my argument. but it can't repeat once and again that the statistics show that the spain has much less much
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less cases in front of the court of human rights than many other european countries like france belgium germany and others but you don't answer for them you want. are you not concerned about this public safety or you wanted to change it. do you find it satisfactory that so many people were sanctioned for disrespecting the police i am not aware of but us you can't refer to the statistics or in general terms and position that spain has on respecting human right let's talk about arms sales in september last year you announced you had halted the sale of laser guided bombs to saudi arabia with concerns over the use of such weapons in the war in yemen and just days later you changed your mind and said the contract had to be on that one just contradict the small contract was horrific but seems that it hasn't been
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anymore sell arms. to saudi arabia but you continue to sell arms not since this government this you know thief's they have been selling more arms you said you had changed your mind and said this particular point had to be on this particular conference had to be had already was signed by the previous government and. the spanish socialist government believed that this had to be a yes and we heard that yeah but these. munitions of this kind have been used against hospitals hotels water whirls residential buildings factories and last year in the school bus attack so the question of collateral damage when they've been aimed at civilian targets doesn't really apply does what they say everybody who has a meaning more mean diligence that you can understand is that that precision. created less collateral damages that would just run down if you put if it's any
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civilian targets anyway that's just an academic argument please either why do you have to prove that they have been used for that well if you read words human rights watch has said last year as of november last year 6872. civilians had been killed and more than 10000 wounded by saudi arabia led coalition air strikes since 2015. they have documented about 90 apparently coalition air strikes which have hit homes markets ospital schools and mosques and these are the people you decided to honor the contract with there is no other toll approve of us saying that there are schools by discover no violence. they will bomb coalition coalition air strikes but the bombs some bomb the plane you know the only thing you have said it is something that you have
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a little be honest approach to the problem and you're willing to stand that a precision bomb creates less collateral damage that they're random as a former president of the european parliament i'm sure you noted the criticism such arms of attracted in that forum last november i mean please heavily criticize the way member states have greenlighted most films exports to saudi arabia despite the fact that those exports violated 6 out of criteria and that's undermined the entire european arms control effort the sports vollmer that the spain had been doing. doesn't fulfill completely all legal requirements amnesty international said your own export more prohibits arms transfers when there is reasonable suspicion they could be used in human rights violations and we have a committee that controls this port of arms and to make sure that when we support
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our arms and we don't buy your lady any role. and you are confident despite the criticism from human rights groups despite what the e.u. parliament has been saying about the need to stop these arms exports to saudi arabia that you haven't violated the criteria he told you for that 2 or 3 counties but you continue asking the same question that it seems does the government is doing nothing we haven't seen the support that arms so no more no more laser guided bombs to saudi arabia these was a contract that has to be how it was signed by the reviews government and since then he hasn't been another one but his little town i am as the same as minister in the time we have left i'd like to look at developments concerning gibraltar your government has made it clear that you intend to use the brics it process to reopen
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the question of shared sovereignty over gibraltar despite the fact that both britain and gibraltar have signalled that that issue is not open for debate why do you bother. to open the question of shared sovereignty who says that your prime minister did in november he said that the issue shared sovereignty would be back on the table all the time as the sunsets are sure it's on the table all the time you win for you but it's not for them not for gibraltar not for britain for sure and what. so what so what why do you think this time you can put it back on the to do you think it's you can use the leverage the leverage of negotiations to put pressure on britain and. how badly you form you why really you don't know anything about what you are talking about my god what do you want done don't
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know do you do not and you don't know anything about what you were taught you know i had been saying very clearly that we were not going to use the dogs of the black sea to the point of the table the question of most of the rain thing how do you allow your or i just not well informed and you didn't hear your prime minister say in november that the issue of sovereignty would be back on the table back on the table but not do it in directed negotiations how being around you are incredible what about through the trade negotiations if there is to be a free trade agreement between britain and spain what then will the again put pressure on gibraltar either you say to scale things i am going to surprise that you come from. this is like this thing you deal what you are talking about. you say that mr knowledgeable you say that and you say that the shoe is on the table 1st of all you said the government had hadn't said anything about
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putting that on the table then you admit the prime minister said. can i explain if you go along please please have an answer to europe continues quest please kindly give me the opportunity please. we have said very clearly that we have not going to call the question of rain on the table on the framework of breaks in negotiations and we haven't done it which doesn't mean that we forget about the question most overlain to you for that will we reach 5 agreement with the british government of what you brought up with greedy and in the future we also agreed with you to be your commission that any of. the later in the little perspectives you've ruled who have to be on the control of the spaniel government that's all nothing more than that for sure we hear the question of rain but it hasn't been called on the day
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when who just to back to negotiation you should know about it and not both questions on the 4th way. on this on february the 18th lyster one of your warships into the water and tried to order out commercial vehicles that were tied up. what was the point of that action because it's forbidden for the chips to stop they can pass but they can not stop now these were gibraltar waters british gibraltar waters which you don't recognise we. do growth. because according to you it's pretty. clear where the land waters we are acting according with intel nation no more thing with. the ships can pass by not stop. one of your most experienced diplomats who headed your mission of the sea
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matters and. has said publicly that there's no legal basis for claiming that gibraltar has no territorial waters they said about the point of view of the spanish government it's if you have a disagreement and you do have this disagreement over gibraltar waters why not settle it through the disputes procedure of the law on the sea conflicts one of these. talks as far back as 960 not that very night that you put the question it would be much better visual led the interviewer to answer there. priest mounts are continually cutting my answer is the true sense of the question i have to all your for this pain is not over. the ships can pass by but they cannot be stopped in the water that we can see that they don't belong to this job or old place for it but one will settle that issue might go along the way that will not settle nationally
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where that. why not settle it. i understand you don't answer one question that is a crime as the question that many pairs of water it's my answer what are you afraid of dialogue taking it to international arbitration to the international court of justice they could decide this international court of justice is not competent for this kind of question and the un law of the sea they are competent but you won't take it to them either you want to put me in the bank of guilty people or i'm just asking why not you are very funny. you're really funny. you've just reached a tax agreement with britain over gibraltar so dialogue can get some results can't . unload with gibraltar. i said with region yes you have to wake up women got something wrong with it you were concerned about tax fraud into broader stuff right why not do more to prevent things like fraud
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and bribery and money laundering anyway can spain do more and we want. more. transparency international says that key european countries are failing to enforce the oh you see these and see bribery convention which is one of the main instruments for fighting global corruption which is the question. and spain is one of them we did it with you can spring is one of them so currently showing according to transparency international little or no inforced much why is that we do as much as we can. what you could do more sure you. could do better. minister good to have your own company. thank you thank you for your but next time i would appreciate if you could the questions and the lesser value as a way. i militaire just to give you the questions you want was so.
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intrigued by the international talk show for journalists discuss the topic of the week papers are rattling once again in the middle east as the standoff between the u.s. and iran intensifies as u.s. pressure produces a new and better nuclear deal as washington claims. more result in more that's our
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u.s. president donald trump has announced plans to tighten immigration making it tougher to gain entry into the country trump wants immigrants to have better english proficiency and more job skills and he wants to reduce the number of asylum seekers but the initiative stands little chance of passing through a sharply divided congress. clashes of broke out in indian controlled kashmir
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a day after a gun battle between security forces and separatists.


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