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tv   Conflict Zone  Deutsche Welle  May 18, 2019 6:30pm-7:01pm CEST

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everyone who bought books has to go and say. thank you literature last week you must treat. the trial of cattle and separatist leaders over their failed independence has laid bare some stock divisions in spanish society not least over the justice system my guest this week here in madrid is spain's foreign minister use that burrell how does he answer the charge that the trials are fundamentally unfair.
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because a bar of welcome to conflict. that. last year a lady called come a follow up was the president of the catalan parliament she was arrested charged with rebellion when she was interviewed last december she was spending 15 hours a day in her cell in solitary confinement is this really the image of spain that you want to show the rest of the world. judicially decision. to. get people under control another to avoid them to escape from the justice like others a grandmother. in a prison convicted of nothing by this enjoy joys the presumption of innocence before her death. everybody who is imprisoned preventive jail enjoys the presumption of innocence intruder 30 percent of the people who are preventing that
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them. it's hard not to see her incarceration as the action of a bin state setting out to punish defendants they should. be enjoying this presumption of innocence and how to present a very innocent preventive jail has nothing to work with it your on record as saying that you wish some of those in pretrial detention were 3. times exactly that they would have. the judge could have found another way of preventing them from escaping the action of justice you said there were other methods that could have been used you said there were other methods that could have been here so this was unfair treatment. in your view no. he would have preferred to see them out of pretrial we know another thing though may miss a thing that they haven't said i understand to national calling to the use of
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pretrial detention is justified only when there is no alternative measure which would ensure the interests of justice you have said there are alternative measures so it is unfair well look you've the judge has decided to implement these measures because he thinks it has to do so i am not going to. this side and the plate of judges in spain judges are in that band and then they take their decision home. and if maybe mr put him on had an escape maybe they could have taken other kind of measures do you know that with them on and on the us has been escaping justice but you know that there are very few people who don't know that or listen to them explain that but it's not your role you tell me the courts are independent but it's not a role to turn a blind eye to serious questions and doubts about the way your judicial system is
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functioning isn't it because you came to power your government came to power promising to transform. space my point to you is keeping people in lockdown in solitary confinement for 15 hours a day. solitary confinement 15 hours a day 63 year old grandmother convicted of nothing but excuse me where you say convicted of nothing do you know about the conviction in this case i start thinking that you don't anything about it she hasn't been convicted of anything as she she's been charged but she has no charge convicted well let's. stop it we're going to stop this interview and this. if you continue like these are you stop it and you are not going to have a thing me going to be worrying me. so you were in me trying
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to police know my mother i'm not a subject of any kind of inquiry or from your side i understand that the right questions and let me talk if not you stop it absolutely ok i just don't. look. you came to power to modernize and. last year the e.u. scorecard which measured public trust in the independence of national courts and judges put spain in 23rd place on the list of member countries below portugal hungry and romania how do you feel about that spain is the ranking among the 20 best democracies and. according with all the you know unit of. the economist. was i think in this thing being classified an older ranking being.
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but the truth is when it comes to the charges of rebellion against the catalan defendants there has been a substantial outcry both here and abroad present that last november more than $100.00 legal experts in spain signed an open letter condemning the charge of rebellion in the council didn't move you why don't you lead the judges made their work i'm asking your opinion. in spain. how do you think that the decision of the german court which refused to extradite the former catalan leader. on the charge of rebellion how how do you think that has affected the credibility of the case against him because the german court said the amount of
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violence required for the charge of high treason which is the closest they have to rebellion was not seen. in breach of the public peace they said does not apply because the mark was only involved in carrying out the independents. the german judge. it's a blow to your case. and actually what you define. the course was the court was basically saying that your central charge against the catalan defendants doesn't hold up. this is the. case i don't know how. the situation is spain but who has to judge it as pain scored. early suggestions here in spain that they're not going to get a fair trial the professor of constitutional law and civilian of. parents royo said i would like to be wrong but the way in which the october 1st case has
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proceeded so far inevitably points to a guilty verdict the trial will be a farce even though they will abide by all the legal procedures while it's being held at the verdict has already been written it's a chilling. just that. just that when you don't agree with the association of judges for democracy about the appointment of some of the leading figures in this case is very much biased the whole of lot of the people who criticises the judges i can't they're here other people who has another. there may well be other views but i mean there's been a damaging criticism. it's a 3rd time how your man serving you this same hands in spain judiciary is independent power let them do their work. for
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months accused you of contributing to the increase in hate he said when you were appointed foreign minister is this the gesture they have in mind in order to send us a message of fraternal deescalation the fact that you have been you a catalan have been dead set against catalonia independence was he right was this a message of fraternal deescalation. can you tell me why mr bush is saying these things i can't i don't read his mind i am asking with the asking whether you agree with it for sure not why should i try to defend myself of their consideration when mr put them on if you are unable to say which in beijing is there said. if you have to have the light this thing of the year while you are talking about do you want to deescalate the situation have been discussed hating the situation this government
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has been making would be careful to know that the skull made this situation implementing and the old kind of measures in order to make things go into normal again but we cannot give to the people good way to put it in the nation as they are asking for because it is against this practice costly to show that this has nothing to do with international law why not have a debate about the constitution and constitutional amendments that could have touched on those provisions which outlaw independence for spanish regions could have that it could happen on for the spanish barlow and present a proposal to reform because to do sure but the basque bit they haven't done it why didn't you do it do you are you not interested in reforming the constitution who is asking for it 70 percent those manuals one long haul reform according according to the center for sociological research so much you're so.
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demurely lying. the center for sociological research has said word 70 percent of spaniards want constitutional reform of some colleagues are some kind of some guy on the public record why finish what ronald finish i don't want to do that anymore . minister in november the human rights commissioner of the council of europe wrote to the senate and the congress of deputies pressing for serious amendments to the so-called law on citizens safety i know that your government promised meaningful changes to this law but you haven't delivered them of the i've been visiting this.
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concert. he was in not complaining at all and he said that this pain is usually of us consider attending the event in one performing a calling with human approachable. so there was no criticism at all you didn't read the letter that was sent to you but i had an interview with that me and went with them and for sure i don't think there is a criticism about the functioning of the spending but you didn't you didn't change the law or do you promised meaningful changes to it and you haven't i don't know exactly what you were talking about the general terms consideration that you might read to consider major about the space system are very good what the commissioner wrote was in his letter i find it disturbing that according to the minister of interior 27000 alone more than 21000 sanctions have been imposed on the grounds of lack of respect or consideration for police officers and the articles that can
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easily be interpreted he said in an arbitrary manner and thus have a chilling effect on freedom of expression well you have a bias approach to this you 2 way should display what they can tell you is the just give my gretsch court has had much less cases with respect to spain to many other countries. the court of appeal and court of human rights decided that a number of basque separatists didn't get a fair trial. you can follow and that doesn't help the argument does it no doesn't help my argument that problem your point of view but i can't repeat the once and again that the statistics show that spain has much less much less cases in front of the court of human rights than many
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other european countries like france belgium germany and others but you don't answer for them you want. are you not concerned about this public safety or you wanted to change it. do you find it satisfactory that so many people were sanctioned for disrespecting the police i am not aware of but. you can't refer to this to these things or in general and the position that this pain has on respecting human right let's talk about arm sales in september last year you announced you had a sale of laser guided bombs to saudi arabia with concerns over the use of such weapons in the war in here and just days later you changed your mind and said the contract had to be on. this contradiction more contract was higher it seems that it hadn't been any more sell arms. to saudi arabia but you continue to sell arms not since this government this you know thieves they have been selling more arms
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you said you had changed your mind and said this particular contract had to be on this particular conference had to be already was signed with the previews government and is there a spanish socialist government believe that these at the right yes and we heard that yeah but these. munitions of this kind have been used against hospitals hotels the water whirls residential buildings factories and last year in a school bus attack so the question of collateral damage when they've been aimed at civilian targets doesn't really apply does it what they say everybody who has a meaning mean diligence you can understand is that their precision. created less collateral damage is that they would just run from it if it's any civilian targets anyway that's just the academic argument while you're there you have your
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proof that they have been used for that well if you read words human rights watch has said last year as of november last year 6872 civilians had been killed and more than 10000 wounded by saudi arabia led coalition strikes since 2015. they have documented about 19 apparently coalition air strikes which have hit homes markets hospitals schools and mosques and these are the people you decided to honor the contract with there is not at all approve of us saying that there are schools by discovery of arms. where they were bombed coalition coalition airstrikes but the bombs and bombs to blame you are the only thing you have say and this is something that you have a little bit honest approach to the problem and you will and this. that a precision bottle creates less call had to hold them that they're random up as
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a former president of the european parliament i'm sure you noted the criticism such an ounce of attracted in that forum last november i mean please heavily criticize the way member states have greenlighted most films exports to saudi arabia despite the fact that those exports violated 6 out of 8 criteria and thus undermine the european arms control that the spores vollmer that the space had been going. doesn't. fulfill completely all legal required and amnesty international so your own export more prohibits arms transfers when there is reasonable suspicion it could be used in human rights violations and we have a committee that control the support of arms and to make sure that when we support arms and we don't buy your lady any role. and you are confident despite
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criticism from human rights groups despite what the e.u. parliament has been saying about the need to stop these arms exports to saudi arabia that you haven't violated the criteria he told you for that television 2 or 3 times but you continue asking the same question that it seems this government is doing nothing that they haven't seen supported arms so no more no more laser guided bombs to saudi arabia at least it was a contract that had to be heard or it was signed by the reviews government and since then he has been another one because of the time i am asking the same question minister and the time we have left i'd like to look at developments concerning gibraltar. your government has made it clear that you intend to use the brics that process to reopen the question of shared sovereignty over gibraltar
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despite the fact that both britain and gibraltar have signalled that that issue is not open for debate why do you bother. to open the question of shared sovereignty who says that your prime minister did in november he said that the issue shared sovereignty would be back on the table all the prime minister sunsets for sure it's on the table all the time you move for you but it's not for them not for gibraltar not for britain for sure and what. so what so what why do you think this time you can put it back on the tape do you think it's you can use the leverage the leverage of negotiations to put pressure on. how badly you form you why really you don't know anything of what you are talking about my god what do what don't don't know do you do not and you don't help anything i won't be what you were talking we had been saying very clearly that we were not
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going to use the dogs of the blacks in the 4th of the table the question most of the rain thing how do you allow your or i just not well informed and you didn't hear your prime minister say in november that the issue of sovereignty would be back on the table back on the table but not during the breaks of negotiations how ignorant you are incredible what about through the trade negotiations if there is to be a free trade agreement between britain and spain what then will the again put pressure on gibraltar either you say to scale things i am going to surprise that you come from. this is like this do you deal what you are talking of. you so interested in eligible you say that and you say that the shoe is on the table 1st of all you said the government had hadn't said anything about putting that on the table then you admit the prime minister. can i explain he was alone
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please please give an answer to europe continues quest please can you give me the opportunity. we have said very clearly that we had not going to get questions of rain on the table on the framework of breaks in negotiations and we haven't done it which doesn't mean that we forget about the question was to you for that will we reach 5 agreement with the british government of what you brought up with all treaty and in the future we also agreed with you to be your commission that any of . you need to give them a little perspective if you are old who have to be on the control of the spaniel government that's all nothing more than that for sure we hear the questions of rain but it hasn't been on that they'd wanted to say that's a negotiation you should know about it and not both questions on the 4th wave. on
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this on february 18th minister one of your warships to water and tried to order out commercial vehicles that were tied up. what was the point of that action because it is forbidden for the cheats to stop they can pass but they can not stop now these were gibraltar waters british gibraltar waters which you don't recognise we. do growth. because according to review it makes me think. we lead a man of their waters we are acting accordingly within the nation and with. the ships can pass by not stop one of your most experienced diplomats who headed your mission of the sea matters and. has said publicly that there is no legal basis for claiming that gibraltar has no territorial waters they said not to have
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you with the spanish government. if you have a disagreement and you do have this disagreement over gibraltar waters why not settle it through the disputes procedure of the law on the sea conflicts one of. them talks as far back as 960 not that night but to put a question it will be much better led the interviewer to answer there. priest announcer continually cutting my yard so please a true sense of the question i thought all you will for this pain is not over. the ships can pass by but they can not to stop in the water that we can see that they don't belong but this job role for us for it but one will settle this issue in my dialogue in a way that will not settle national wear that. why not settle it. i understand how he means it you don't answer my question that is
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a crime as the question that many parent has of one piece my answer what are you afraid of the dialogue taking it to international arbitration to the international court of justice they could decide this matter of justice is not competent for this kind of question and the un law of the sea they are competent but you won't take it to them either you want to put me in the bank of guilty people or i'm just asking why not you're very funny. you're really funny. you've just reached a tax agreement with britain over gibraltar so dialogue can get some results can't . unload with gibraltar who i said with i said with written about europe yes. women got something wrong with it you were concerned about tax fraud into broader stuff right why not do more to prevent things like fraud and bribery and money laundering anyway how can spain do more and we want.
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to more. transparency international says that key european countries are failing to enforce the oh you see these and see bribery convention which is one of the main instruments for fighting global corruption which is the question. and spain is one of those we did it with and spain is one of them so currently showing according to transparency international little or no in force why is that we do as much as we can. what you could do more sure. minister good to have you on conflict so thank you thank you for your but next time . the questions and all those values who weigh. i'm not here just to give you the questions you want me.
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this is deja vu news a line from berlin australia's governing conservative coalition scores a shocking victory in the country's election prime minister scott morrison calls the win a miracle after polls ahead of the vote suggested a victory for the opposition labor party that group's leader bill shorten says he will no longer had the party after 6 years at the house also coming up. sally since gather outside the austrian chancellor's office in vienna to protest against the country's feisty.


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