tv Conflict Zone Deutsche Welle September 6, 2019 12:30am-1:00am CEST
the troops over. time to overcome our dreams. and connect the world. time for. coming up ahead. minds. we can make china a peaceful country if you ever said no to beijing yes many times i'm telling you the facts why don't you list the politicians in taiwan being out campaigning in presidential primaries ahead of next year's election with the topic of relations with china very much on the agenda but i guess this week outside the capital taipei cho she was who's been seeking the nomination of hughes probating policy the kuomintang as china pushes with increasing urgency for reunification on the
taiwanese continue to reject its one on a party to offer. a way that welcomes comfort zone thank you very much for inviting me. you said the only way to resolve antagonism between china and 2 i one is to talk and to love. to know your lover china that is threatening taiwan both verbal and militarily and holding a sword over your head continually how do you love what world that's your impression actually if you talk to some chinese in mainland china as long as you don't support separation from china they are not treat you like that they are not attack you so then say the wrong thing otherwise right right and you know you are not realize that you think that's a normal way to live but
a power across 180 kilometers of the strait says to you if you see the wrong thing you finished why don't you think i don't think it's that serious you have to be serious you keep saying i think you have to talk to each other if you try to visit china so call the china we call the mainland ok we are taiwan our mainland we together is a china is a one china war if you think the threats from china is so serious as i one why do european people all the people around the world are all the members in the e.u. and try to work with china try to have dialogue with china try to solve problems it's true that you know that as well as i do it's not a human rights record is there working history we can do that too apart from trade what exactly does democratic time i were having common these days with one party communist china you have free elections yes you will change your party in power
they don't you have independent courts they know you have a free press they don't you can speak out against abuses of power and they can't what on earth have you got in common with mainland china and. i think we should emphasize differences. go there work with them be their friends be their brothers and change instead of being their enemies go their walk with them you can change. whether you are doing with them now what you do country about human rights what i'm not doing in china is that you can change them what on earth is the evidence what you see the trade surplus china with nailon rights you see a lot of changes in hong kong recently while china is not using force to press down be demonstration why they compromise why because they seek opportunity to prove they can change they came pruitt will come on to hong kong a little later i want to go into some detail on that but the serious issue is the
military pressure from china is not even 2 years ago your government's national defense report highlighted concerns that chinese military activity near taiwan posed an enormous threat to security in the taiwan states now just a few days ago you had washington saying that china stepped up its pressure seeing the largest increase in military activity around taiwan for 20 years and you think that's meaningless why us say china is going to interfere in the election in tell you why and so us is coming here to interfere are. you happy with these bullying turnouts because that's what they are not happy about bullying thing but i'm not what i was doing i'm happy about you know we can do persons with each other we can ask of china to make changes we are the only people on earth believe that we can make that happen we can make china
a peaceful country where you look back at the history who are the invaders who are the invaders japan right who participated the wars in asia. if you want to live in history you want to live in the now i want you little universe in modern humans i assure people i want you i want to make history clear who are the invaders ok if you want to be someone's enemy then they will be your enemy if you want to be someone's friend always known you even if you have friends if only like ok let me tell you one wild thing why us is selling our 16 to taiwan instead of $35.00 and the us is selling f. $35.00 to korea to japan to singapore to other countries why the united states gave the galley island to japan instead of taiwan it was our territory why the us is doing that to taiwan this show can teach and
vice president of the taiwan foundation for democracy so last month let's move on to more taiwanese feel their nation is now under existential stret and you seem to be out of touch with that feeling totally you don't feel a. lot of the reality i feel the reality i know how to deal with the chinese in mainland. i know what's the facts i know you have to give your do from you long have to deal with them as a politician i tried to deal with them when i was the mayor here the the big city mayor i work with the city in one gene i try to communicate with them i try to work with them try to ameliorate carbon emission environmental issues education issues will work with them about what magic front where they continue to squeeze you where they ramp up the pressure where they try to persuade countries to drop their recognition diplomatic recognition that you did that you not curiosity china
didn't remember this you lost in the lead in 28 teams to the right to chinese russia you've now got intersection using an engine fake you you recognize china you don't recognize the the republic of china you will recognize it because if i'm going to talk about republicans and we were talking about china is taiwan we were the representative of china before 971 and the un i talked. about if you strip and this is going to be artistic you know i'm telling the fact we exist here that the are we seeing this is here and that's what you called the taiwan but you never knew i couldn't now is the hour see here you recognize the p.r.c. rates what in the e.u. when i read an article recently we hear 21 china policy as regards to taiwan and hong kong and i say i think you should be defined like this we are here to one china policy as regards to mainland taiwan hong kong and mark up mr.
you're not talking about china that continues to thwart one's participation in the international organizations like the world health organization or the interpol for instance you want to be members of those organised want to sign up and i want you to help us is trying to stop it why you agree. as you know being asked why do you never criticize your maybe i just as i must pay attention everybody i think when you say again why no no mention i too no don't you read the letter i didn't say that we've read a lot of i have a tad of science to express my opinion about china it's not time we started to set up this is wrong this is what oh yes i have here one more thing the un the e.u. even germany you recognize the p.r.c. you don't recognize the scene and i truly hope one day you recognize the our scene
you know how to participate doubly h. o. ok i and you see the chinese on the lock that we have a lot of us they should try to talk we were talking as what we should try to those results i didn t. intend to such great reality that can t. did that can t. try to talk to mainland china time they tried and sounded trite yet they tried to do let us put his a magic show especially today h. o. and i see it or mr churchill beijing is clearly losing patience with taiwan where you dream of some vague love in between taipei and the mainland china is crystal clear what it wants from you and that's reunification and it refuses to rule out the use of force to get it doesn't it and you live with that and you normalize that on a daily basis ok in our consciousness same to the not you can't come dancing you couldn't possibly constitution ok there's only one china policy. and that
includes mainland taiwan hong kong and michael that's in our constitution we should buy and buy our country's constitutional rights you're being told by xi jinping as you were in january unification is an inevitable requirement for the great rejuvenation of the chinese people he said taiwan should accept that it must and will be reunited with china whatever talks you've been having with china hasn't got them out of the vat idea and how many people in taiwan want that the unification of under 3 percent there or about that i'm going to worry about what the rand paul thing about you don't know about what a lot of people up i think but don't worry about their threatening words why don't you stand up to those threatening words what we stand up to you whether we stand up to that but in our district you really remember taiwan must and well ok and i did with john have you got some out to me have you tried to take
a lot of our constitution have you tried to take a look of our norse to show you our last word china saying our laws and in our constitution we want to peaceful relationship we want to unification. the people who talk to the people dogs that's in our law and the constitution people they did it doesn't matter what their country why they want to try to amend the constitution that's your perception our people here want to have a peaceful relationship with the mainland and we want to make money we want to do business together we want to have a democracy in the future in mainland china but not fighting against them not taking down s. and anime trying to be their friends and tried to change them by participation perhaps like what you do and where do you go that's working so well the the reality is mr joe the push on unification puts your party the kuomintang into
a very difficult position doesn't it your veteran china expert suchi actually said that he said she jinping took away all the space for ambiguity and that puts us the kuomintang in a very difficult situation that difficulty being that your party is being told get on with this by china and you don't have a policy of standing up to it so you do have a policy. i declared that i claim that i want to unify china i want to unify under taiwan mean less young chance 23000000 people want taiwan against the courage it is made a 1000000000 that is my partner see i did see one percenters that's fantasy you have to remember the austrian capital. in the world you have to understand the history in the world what's happening now unification separation yes yes that's the process unification separation separation unification. that's a track of the history but there's one thing very important i also learned wrongs
never mind the track of westerly track of history is just words is the talk of you know you just know it's the fact the question is what people want to know human nature is that the vast majority of your population do me a favor wants unification to me of a time or have you ever stood up to china i say and out of your pursuit of them i stand up for the republic of china have you ever said no to beijing yes for many times what on human rights issues through yes really yes you can do when you can not exactly what can and then actually an accident happened that was 30 years ago i would be told down to years whenever i went to china i told don't you need to introduce democracy to your society or they're listening yes will you isn't it so i'll see the 1st of the brightest crackdown in 25 years taking place on human rights activists human rights watch reported last year human rights defenders continue to enjoy arbitrary detention imprisonment and in force disappear yes and
you say nothing about that. have you heard i said anything about that i get just now i even told them i even told them because you don't know my history the only way i have the many dialogues with them i told them you have to improve that's human rights that's international standards of treating your people i told them to ok i have to tell you one thing if you don't participate if you don't join them if you don't treat them like they can improve there nothing good is going to happen and what i'm blind here it's a fine line between that and the peace movement isn't a yes it's a very fulsome fine line it's very ambiguous but you have to do that from your heart. people know that never spoken up for the tiny taiwanese democracy activists leming che it's more than human chains more than 2 years since he was forcibly disappeared you haven't heard of him bleak chair it's more than 2 years since he
was forcibly disappeared by police in china's province and charge was subversion of state power he's a citizen of taiwan you don't talk about you don't even know he's let me know he's in terrible conditions human rights groups around the world have been campaigning for his release you know one of our governor sentenced to 5 years in jail can't get phone calls can't get letters 4 times his wife was prevented from from going to china to visit. and you know his rights are being around 20 years ago i tried to talk to chinese communists to release and as suspects a lady who just got married and who was released recently i talked to our government. went down was the ruling party and they didn't step in they didn't
try to rescue her she was sentenced to death however in jail for 20 years and just a year ago she was released probably just at the in this year she was released and look what the people here have done to help human rights you know we should try to work together and we should try to talk to them and what the government here do let's talk about hong kong again you mentioned earlier the interview and you were you were praising china that they had shown restraint with the demonstration not praising them for that who started this in the 1st place ok that's the law right. for what the demonstrators will tell you that it was a constant erosion of their freedoms under the one country 2 systems for us that forced them onto the streets anywhere the denial of universal suffrage the
kidnapping of booksellers the banning of a political party. the prevention of elected legislative council is taking their seats because they didn't like the politics that constant erosion of freedom under the one country 2 systems that's the system is offering you one country 2 systems i suggest you take a look what's been happening here in taiwan in the arrow see the ruling party p.p.p. who claimed they would protect human rights they can say with no i have to tell was embarrassing thing happening here that's the reason why it's so embarrassing because our ruling party is trying to marshal law here doing something even worse and there is one law related to national security you know that's what they are doing here our ruling party here. of course we created size the hong kong
government especially the council tried to establish a law which hong kong residents disagree and it doesn't trust sold that little you believe is casual back to your chief executive kerry lamb the chief exec she's beijing's appointee of russian history pointy even so-called elected by some hong kong representation. why hasn't she been more people. that's come from people is there democracy is serious system as can compete then we come back to the question and this is the one thing is important they withdraw the last draft right they've suspended it this is it was not they still there said they have said it's day said they would drop because they did something wrong in the meat i think there's something proceeding with it but not now that's that's what's happening before now they say their words. you're satisfied it's over now i'm not
satisfied about that i'm worried about what's happening here in taiwan and the one country 2 systems formula that she jinping has offered to taiwan we don't read the that or that's not going to happen that's not going to happen then you mean hong kong is not going to have different systems from china a system isn't the last thing i think the system what should exist because that's the the window shop for chinese they should to show that improvement of democracy to the world hong kong system is you know is a given don't try to violate that it's going to embarrass them just to show isn't a lesson that you should take away from hong kong is that china doesn't live up to its promises of democracy isn't that the lesson i think and i think talking and one thing i love china i don't live up to the note on this i have to think we should try to change then we should try to improve them you should 1st single
to them well how do you know i didn't say no to them. doing that i've been doing that for so many years every time i visited china i talked to them. i say improve your system especially a democratic system and they step up their interference with well. look at the propaganda war that's being waged against taiwan a study by the university of gothenburg in sweden said you're one of china's major targets for spreading this information happy about direct interference well i think . we are all see so called the taiwan should be more more opened to outside world especially western society are avoiding we question are doing is just information came here while china is trying to do that but other countries also try to do that too i think we should take active actions in solving their problems
well they're open society but not open enough to the outside world or people of how many english speaking channels here so take a look about how many how much international media are existing here in taiwan we're not exposed enough to the outside world however the politicians here try to close the door. try not loz you know we are one we. know should we or you we we emphasize local lies ations so much instead of internationalization that's what you don't want to see more going on here is who do you know when you really mean is ourself 1st you don't want to admit it now we want to improve ourselves too we also want to improve china remember i want to take active active process active approach to china to make china change this idea that you can make sure that chile which frankly is pretty much of
a long shot why should people vote for your. well if you're selling fantasies like that well no we're not selling fantasy. be realistic it's a difficult competition. why don't you try to realize what d.p.p. can do p.v.p. is the one who can answer the really ill action why don't you take a look what we're fighting for while fighting for true democracy here and did b.b.c. ruling democracy while trying to build a peaceful relationship with china with the mainland and we're trying to create a better society here while trying to introduce your systems your values here to taiwan where trying so hard to do that if we want to come dance of people here that can keep this country perfectly well then we have to respect the
democracy we have to open our society to the outside world we have to be honest to our people the bad by our ruling party is cheating our people well the bad news for you is that a plurality of taiwanese 45 percent don't identify with your party or the ruling d.p.p. do take a look take a look at you're right you're right they don't trust the parties here yeah don't trust us then don't trust them they don't trust our party you're not saying anything that they think is relevant what i believe they're what they are saying is relevance we realize the fact already people don't trust the parties here people don't trust the politicians here which is why i would think i trust you i mean you you said in the 2nd probably debate we're going to have some primaries you claim that the number of times when these people below the poverty line was believed to be around 3800000. which is a fact simply not true which is simply not true it's true that if you research you
know essential says taiwan proportionally contains fewer people living in poverty than any other country in asia now now most of your almost no time no i mean some of them on less than 2 years on those under us and to me patients leave you know when i was the me here in tempe county. they are around one quarter of the students can afford their lunch that's one quarter if you times that proportion to the total population here in taiwan i'm telling you the facts and i'm right balanced hello i'm telling you the fact that's not the facts that's the fact i'm telling you the fact why don't you listen almost no time when he is live on less than $1.00 u.s. dollars a day that's noble put out to the dad that is that's really the heart of poverty that's growing all over the nation of poverty is different really my definition as you are doing it is not knowing who wrote yes relative to every minute yet that's
my definition and ubiquitous as my donation you live in so i can tell you if any student cannot afford their lunch then he's and his family is living in poverty that's my definition if it all goes wrong here in taiwan and she jinping loses patience and somebody says something they shouldn't say. and china looks as though it's moving towards an invasion would you fight for taiwan. or not where do your loyalties lie mr cho loyal to our country the republic of china well loyal to our constitution you would you fight your show you know yes yes yes if they violate kids our constitution to preserve and protect our people and defend our people i'll fight against china so she way you're going to have your comfort zone thank you. as the x
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