here in germany but soon 12000 of them will pack up and leave germany nato republicans and democrats in washington they are all against the move so why the downsizing now if you ask the u.s. defense secretary he'll say this is strategic and investment to better deter russia and china but if you ask donald trump he'll say this is about sticking it to america's freeloading friend germany the country trump claims that refuses to pay its own way i'm burnt off in berlin this is the day. let's be clear i think germany is the wealthiest country in europe germany can and should pay more to its defense well i think this is a leave that really challenges the very heart of the defense relationship this is something we want to do we feel very good about and with regard to how quickly

units will move i said i'll just say a matter of weeks that. they are. also coming up tonight announce his latest mission to mars and why it could open a new chapter in space exploration the 1st time in history when nafta has dedicated a mission to what we call astrobiology the search for life maybe now or ancient life on another world. as you our viewers on p.b.s. in the united states and all around the world welcome we begin the day with plans to shrink the u.s. military here in germany today the pentagon confirmed what u.s. president donald trump has been demanding almost from the very start of his presidency a reduction in the number of you. troops stationed in germany it's an expensive

move that will take years and it is not popular here in berlin or in washington or at nato headquarters now there is agreement that any force reduction will only embolden russia in fact it is easy to imagine the russian president and the u.s. president see eye to eye on this one today the u.s. defense secretary offered a different spin saying the cutback in forces in germany is part of a broader strategy to improve deterrence against russia and china but for the u.s. president this comes down to money repeating a familiar and incorrect claim trump told reporters today this is about retribution payback to punish germany for not paying its own way at nato. they. say. that.

they. don't. really care that. the we're. dealing we're moving forces out of central europe germany where they have been since the cold war. since i 1st traveled there in the early 1980 s. and we're now moving we're following in many ways the boundary east where our were our newest allies are so into the black sea region we talked about the dition force into poland and i think there are opportunities to put forces in the baltics there's 2 contradictory stories there let's pull in now retired u.s. general been hodges he's served for 3 years as commander of what's called the united states army europeans currently with the center for european policy analysis which fosters better transatlantic ties general ideas it's good to have you on the

show. you have called a troop move like this and i'm quoting here a gift to the kremlin. is that what you say tonight yeah and thanks for the privilege of being on your program it is a gift to the kremlin equiv the kremlin has done nothing to change its behavior in any positive way they still occupy crimea they still are killing ukrainian soldiers every week in the donbass they still occupy 20 percent of georgia they still support the assad regime which has sent millions of refugees into turkey and then to europe and now they are supporting john hof star and libya which is going to have a negative outcome for europe so they've continued their aggression and here we are but surely reduce our capability in germany by a 3rd i call that a gift and you say arbitrarily is there a need at all for any type of downsizing of forces in

germany. no in fact the opposite when i was there as the commander we laid out our top capability requirements what we still needed and it included air and missile defense it included more engineers more logistics all the things that are necessary to carry out our national security strategy for all of europe and the middle east and africa. so we needed more and instead what's happening this is a i believe a self-inflicted wound by the white house. that's based on an arbitrary cap of troops in one specific country it's not the result of strategic analysis or interagency process or consultation with alums in fact at what i saw today it was it was disheartening because i saw our secretary secular and ice chairman doing their best to carry out what i am sure in their heart of hearts knows was a

a wrong headed a political decision but of course you know that's their duty is to try and make it work and i think they probably minimize some of the damage it could have been worse but this is a disappointment when general i mean help us understand this because we you know we can't find really anyone to even talk about this plan and too supportive there is agreement across the board both sides of the atlantic that this is a big mistake so what's going on inside the pentagon why has the pentagon not been able to convince the president to change his mind or to pull back on this i mean it looks like the pentagon is going along with this bad idea. well 1st of all i am very i'm 100 percent confident that everybody will have done their best to explain to the national security advisor and to the president why

this is a bad idea what the impacts will be the impact on our leadership role within nato how much the alliance means to us so i would i would not say they're just going along with it at the end of the day and so it's a legal order they have and they have to make it work so they are great and of course they had to go to the congress now after the fact to try to get support out i've been encouraged to see so much strong resistance to this in the congress you know like so i think it boils down to who is the president listening to he listens to former ambassador grinnell unfortunately in his own national security advisor mr o'brian does not understand what's in your or why or why we have forces in europe and i don't know unfortunately the president. has a philosophy about nato and its and a lack of understanding of why we have forces in europe and germany in particular and why it's to our advantage in the united states to have this i mean think about

it the number is so small it's less than half of what could show elliot's arena near munich were by place with the you know there's a small number of people you know as if it is a very good point and it is planned as we understand it tonight cannot be carried out completely by the time the presidential election comes in november and if that's the case what am i assuming correctly when i say that probably at the pentagon they're going to wait and see what happens in november and a lot of them are probably hoping that there will be a different president come january well. there's no doubt that this thing is going to take a very long time i mean you know there's a reason that half of the airborne brigade is headquartered in italy half of it's in germany because there's not enough room and be a chance of for the whole brigade so the idea of the plan is to move the rest of the brigade down into italy so it's going to cost billions of dollars to expand the

very excrete new training areas new by the way italy spends less on defense than there's germany so a country that is spending even less is getting rewarded with a huge investment by the administration same for belgium belgium is not even a one percent one percent country and then we're going to move our most important headquarters into belgium so so none of that is making sense fortunately most of those moves will in fact take a long time and look. our men and women in uniform are very very serious about our oath to the constitution civilian leadership and so once we've done our best to explain the risks of the costs the pluses and minuses of any political guidance once that guidance is given you're going to do your best to carry it out make it successful that's your base your duty as long as it's legal and not immoral. so don't add would be reluctant to say that people at pentagon are

holding their breath and hoping with that ministration the fact is it's going to take a very long time and after her certainly hope that whoever the next administration is whether it's a 2nd trump administration or by the ministration that they will relook this and that's why i want to ask you judge and we've got about 30 seconds left what happens to this plan if joe biden becomes the next u.s. president did you hear general can you hear me. looks like we lost our signal there. to us general bin hodges joining us tonight from charlotte north carolina general thank you very much we apologize for losing the signal there all right let's take the story full little bit further now we're joined by the u.s. political consultant and public policy adviser andrew adair andrew specializes in u.s. german relations he is here in berlin tonight into it's good to see you again 1st

thing's 1st style ask you what i just asked the general you know we've only got 97 days until the u.s. presidential election what happens to this plan of troop withdrawal and reduction if joe biden when it's well you know. as we all know the president on the american system is the commander in chief of the armed forces in the u.s. military so the president can reverse the order. joe biden is a very different type of leader than donald trump i think he has a very big amount of respect for the transatlantic relationship the importance of america's position in europe for nato you know its relationship with i mean america and so forth so i would anticipate that i am would slow this down and probably even reverse it is you talk to policy makers on both sides of the atlantic here in

berlin and in washington this plan is not popular at all on either side of the atlantic right. that's correct i mean one of the things that i think is that tracking very closely and i think it is something to watch is what congress is doing about this you know under the u.s. constitution that congress plays an important role you really equal to that of the president when it comes to the u.s. military the congress funds the military the congress you know sets of all 'd the legal authorities for all the branches the different weapons systems and strategic . avenues and the president is one who's executes you know the mission itself but congress can block this and you know if it were just up or down vote on whether this was needed to happen i believe congress would walk in. what's what happened

last week is i think worth taking a look at there's something called the national defense authorization act the indy a new happens every year it's a very unique bill it's a bipartisan bill and it's an annual process under which the congress. sets forth all the parameters from the u.s. military so there are a lot of members in congress who are trying to use this vehicle what we call a moving train in washington to block this move the house passed their version last week with blocking language the senate however passed their version last week as well without blocking language so now those 2 versions have to sort of be. reconciled through a big grand goshi action over the next few months and that will happen behind closed doors i think is a good chance that the blocking language you know is retained in the final bill that the president has to sign but it's still an open and an open issue i mean the

great analysis of what's going on in washington and let's pull it back here to berlin which you take a listen to what the german defense minister said last week about this plan for troop reduction take a listen. if they stay in europe then this remains a commitment towards nato but if they were to be restated to the india pacific region that would indicate a change of u.s. strategy which then would spark a debate within nato if so if you she is putting a positive spin on this is best she can isn't she well i guess reading you know what if she thinks about this this truck era if you will is that you know we're seeing the sort of the it's been a stress test of this alliance but i think even under these stresses we still see we are in an alliance the united states and germany and we are and nato obviously and we are you know trying to put

a positive spin on all these different moves and the fact is regardless of the strategic wisdom of what was happening today you know half of those troops are to remain within the nation of. so you know that $12000.00 some of them ostensibly would be repositioned to the pacific but would remain in europe and what about the u.s. president's repeated claim that germany is delinquent that it's not paying what it's supposed to be paying nato we know that that is not true and yet he continues to accuse berlin of being a security free loader i mean. how is that being explained on both sides of the atlantic to the people you talk to. yeah well i mean i would i would just take a little issue of with your characterization i mean i think i disagree don't trump that germany is a free loader and that they. owe money to nato but germany did agree under the

wheels declaration to spend 2 percent of its g.d.p. on military and it has it's not on a swift path to meet that goal so i mean i think you know it reasonable people can perhaps disagree but i think your german is not good and yet you present target when i think you know if you talk to folks and want us to i think you know if many people will agree with that well and so is this something that you worked out it is a valid point you bring up but we hear all the time from well german lawmakers that germany committed to strive to reach that 2 percent of g.d.p. we've been told many times germany never promised that it would spend 2 percent of g.d.p. on defense yeah i mean i

personally think that it's has more to do with domestic political considerations i mean the fact is germany as a nation if you know spending money on the military engaging in military buildup playing a large role in national security is not domestically popular so just as the united states politicians response you use different pressures so to do members of the german parliament it's a very good point as well andrew there is always andrew it's good talking with you good seeing you on the show again we appreciate your time and your analysis tonight thank you thank you ron. well in just a few hours it will be 321 we have liftoff if everything goes according to plan for nasa is next mission to mars the rover perseverance the lander will be investigating the age old question is there evidence of life on the red planet

of the probe will be taking samples in an area where scientists believe water once flowed you saw it right there those samples will be brought back to earth eventually for analysis by a pick up mission the round trip will take at least we understand until the year 2031. this is an exciting day at nasa allen chen is a systems engineer with nasa as mars 2020 project he joins me now for it's a great time to work it nasa denied i guess you would agree with me absolutely this is a very exciting time for us right our mission they struck on top of 850-0000 rocket ready to go to mars to start this grand relay race to have brain samples home well and tell us about the the actual mission that you know that we're going to start the happen hopefully you know successfully within just you know

a matter of hours and what's going to happen and what are we going to be able to see. i would say that all of our past missions have been the office of our orbiter is our landers and our rover i mean leading up to this mission a procedure that those missions helped us find that it in its early days mars was warm and wet like you are saying and have it was just like her so now we get a chance with this mission to ask the question can we find any evidence that past life on mars had to do that we're sending that they get the smartest and most capable rover we've ever built the most challenging landing site we've ever attempted to land that and it all starts tomorrow now i was reading that one of the big differences between earth and your inner ring earth's atmosphere compared to mars is that because the atmosphere is sort of thin on mars you can't use parachutes for example to break the fall when you're trying to land so talk to me about how difficult it is to land something on the surface of mars sure i actually

and lead a descent manning team to the morris way 20 projects a match to get the right guy here there's a lot of challenges really to landing on mars and the atmosphere as you pointed out is one of the memory hidden atop the atmosphere going 5.4 kilometers per 2nd that we're entering hypersonic leave have to survive heating and the celebration as we go through that and that's just the beginning of the story where then steering our way to the target that cloying a parachute that we can use in those that are there but we have to deploy a really big parachute it $21.00 and a half meter parachute going almost mach 2 at that point to slow down but even then that doesn't slow us down enough the parachute only get us down to about 85 meters per 2nd or so and at that point we have to use rockets and we use rockets to do the last part of the job to get us down to about 20 meters where we dangle the rover from its rocket powered jetpack and put the rover right down on its wheels and you're the you're the engineer you're in charge of a business landing which i understand is what is that i direct and how many minutes

are we talking about is it 7 or 8 minutes. yep it'll take us just about 7 minutes to get from the top of the atmosphere to the bottom half some people caught the 7 minutes it's there certainly terrifying for me i'm sure well you know what you're like you're in the great condition today considering what you know what it's about to happen now let's say you land everything goes well what what kind of area are we going to be looking at where perseverance is scheduled to land the place of perseverance is landing is called just row crater back in the past it's pretty clear from the evidence that we've gathered from orders and declare that the crater what self was an ancient weight with a river that flowed into it there was water on that filled up the crater that flowed in from this from this river and that river deposited it delta that's still there and out even to this day you know the lake is gone. deltas are great places to search for the signs of past life i don't think you can find a record of that year on earth that doesn't have the signs of life trapped in those

deposits i mean so if we're actually looking at. you know computer animation showing that delta can we say then with with certainty then that in the soil in the rocks there we have the best conditions for preserving some type of life if life did indeed at some point exist on mars. i think you could say certainly that this is the best place that we can think of that we can get to on mars to look for those signs deltas are great places to preserve those signs of life or cross the line if they were in fact to add to occurred back in the past but this has presents us with a lot of challenges for land as you might notice there's no landing strip or no airport there at just row so as a guy trying to land this rover safely and know that there's doubt that self is like a 60 to 80 metre cliff right in the middle of where we're trying to land so it's a pretty gnarly place to land as well yeah

a gnarly place to land and with little room there for error it looks like what what does all this mean for. the next big goal and that is sending humans to mars. that's very question there's a lot of things that we're doing i'm in addition to the scientific work they're going to help us with the planning people eventually on mars part of developing our many technologies and manning this big rover are directly but both of adding people but one thing we have as part of our landing system is called train both the navigation that actually gives us the ability to take pictures on the way down and use those to fly the vehicle to save spots nearby so we can avoid put basins and rocks and take slopes and things like that and that's something that will be important for people as well additionally the rover is carrying an instrument called moxie which actually generates oxygen from the carbon dioxide atmosphere mars atmosphere is almost entirely carbon dioxide which isn't great for humans but if we can use it to make oxygen then we can ask something for them to breathe and

print perhaps something that uses our count as well alan about about a minute left here i want to ask you what year i mean if you look in your calendar when do you see humans 1st on stepping foot on mars. we have a lot of work to do before i even get to a humans there so i don't know that ready ready to hazard yes i know that my job is to get the rover down safely in about 204 days ok that's a very diplomatic answer how about but 10 years 1520 years is that am i in the right range. i think you know we were trying to push the boundaries of what's possible every day pushing technology. to allow us to be able to do things like that someday but i don't think i'm ready to hazard a guess there ok well alan chan with nasa as mars 2020 project allan i know you've got some very important work to do we wish you all the best and we will be watching thanks for taking the time to talk with us tonight. thank you very much for time

exciting times there at nasa the day is always done the conversation continues online you'll find us on twitter either you w. news you can follow me at brant goth t.v. have remember whatever happens between now and then tomorrow is another day. the american singer songwriter gregory porter we understand will be perked forming at the perseverance launch we're going to leave you now with a preview of that performance take a look. with a 1000000 stars in the galaxy. but i'm floating with them as hard for me to see i'm holding on to this day are 30000 feet up. where.

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