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tv   Kulturzeit  Deutsche Welle  October 30, 2020 11:30pm-12:01am CET

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5 adventurers. one goal being the preservation of our planet. it's not just an issue of martin trees uncertain kratos and more. sauce that's better surat. true ours others are radically different where it's from brother. or child starts november 6th on to w. . things are getting hot in russia's neighborhood with the latest uprising in kyrgyzstan adding fuel to the fire that began weeks ago in western neighbor bellicose where thousands have been demanding removal of authoritarian leader alexander lukashenko tensions between armenia and azerbaijan are smoldering once again over the separatist enclave nagorno-karabakh and russia's been delivering
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weapons but otherwise showing uncharacteristic restraint proteins top priority along seem to be restoring russia's place as a global player as he lost his touch our title russia's explosive frontiers what is courtiers goldring and. cut. up the. hello and welcome to to the point it is a question to introduce our guests beginning with about a new you suppose he is a colleague here on t w's russian desk and he says putin wants to keep the power and make russia great again and i'm very glad to have with us alexander our he's a political scientist an analyst actual izing on russia and his view as a whole this is change like the fall of the berlin wall in 1989 how explosive it will be remains to be seen and a pleasure to have with us again i've learned. she is a correspondent
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a german broadcaster. and she says sowing divisions supporting dictators subverting borders russia remains on the wrong side of history. so. it's seems like supporting dictators and support subverting borders used to come a bit easier to vladimir putin after protests over the rigged election in belarus began he waited weeks to affirm his support for the go last time armenia and azerbaijan clashed it took russia just 4 days to quell the conflict now it seems to be reluctant to stop the fighting what's going on i would say. when it comes to. this. at the end no question for putin who she wants to support of course it's
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looking cool and he wouldn't allow a bit of a mass protest can't change regime that's what chief us all of the time and there is no way to not supporting the question of course it's possible that she creates a figure like it so quote opposition leader and install him in belo rose with the help of a bug on court t.v. journalist and so on and fake news and information well that's all possible but it's a 1st step. i wouldn't say that he really thought about not confirming and not supporting the question of no new idea and sort of members you say russia wants to hold on to putin wants to hold on to power is his power actually at risk certainly his approval ratings appear to be quite i don't
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see any risks for witness power and keep the power is the most normal thing for any british from religion or political in their in their work so their political systems are different but the rich to keep power is the same were they were a country of the so i don't think back to the question i don't think and there is for fortunes for river appropriate since then go up and down by the norio erm then sort of for him last time his poll ratings were declining in 2012 he quickly revived his standings with moves like the annexation of the crimea are we seeing a different strategy now in order bird thanks 30112002 throw for her through a huge loss for just on the streets of moscow which were richer there escalate the very professional over by russian authorities and crimea was 2014 for your state or . so i don't think going to connection with the river urgings 2011 from
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preference to crimea up of 3 years later. sort of the question simply is the question of whether we're seeing a different strategy now well it's really how russia is dealing with the conflicts in the neighborhood know the threats they're on the same the focus of a russian government is much more political so what's and also russian publics for some reason some for some parts because the clearest shift from domestic issues for economy for medical problems which we have the conflicts of course on the crisis the russian government is very much busy gilpatrick syria libya belarus with many many issues on the global level and not paying much attention to the domestic issues in the toilets and grosser russian public and russian russians inside the country because i don't think the other russian president would be less interested in deal politics but probably more interested in domestic issues. alexander you know russia well from what i've read you have dined with president
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putin and you've also consulted for major russian firms like gazprom so you say in your opening statement that the current situation could bring about change like the fall of the berlin wall what do you mean exactly where is this change going i mean that the world is facing radical dramatic changes and i compare the changes will witness with the changes which we have saw 30 years ago. i think that of course there is nobody at all to collapse but the world is moving from one world order from the i would say when you pull our world order which was designed as a liberal world order by the west by the united states and the european union after the end of communism where moving now to a new stage in world history where the world will be defined by major powers
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not only by the west but by a very strong china. by a new russia who is no strengths but also a more military mind that russia and also a strong. movement and a force which will witness also from the cells and do you see any change in putin's way of dealing with the tensions in the neighborhood compared to how he might have handled it earlier in the i just came back from the valdai club in moscow as we could ask him with a question. who would he deliver again this speech which he gave to the german exactly 20 years ago when he said the cold war is over. would you do the same speech again i ask him and he said yes but in a softer way and what he confirmed is for him is the nato expansion what's the of the mother of all the problems which. he faces with the west this is
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a russian view of course but the same this is a geopolitical fight which the russians have today with the west and with as the russians or nato expansion over values or many things what i wanted to say about the neighborhood i think that putin is not really afraid that the west will take advantage of the changes in kyrgyzstan in armenia there by john and bill russia way because all those countries are much better and much closer connected with russia than crane was 66 years ago bill russia is comically completely dependent on russia care just as well because kyrgyzstan is also a member of the euro eurasian club and in azerbaijan and armenia both countries also who gets weapons from russia and are comically intertwined with was moscow so you know they're very briefly your opening statement said russia remains on the wrong side of history what would it take to put it on the right side and is that to be a protein capable of delivering not what oleksandr just sit makes me thinking about
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the past. the situation compared to what we have now if you it's like the fall of the war when i think about this former time it was just a period of happiness of hope of joy and i can see this in this moment. the other way around i would see no nothing nothing what do we see in the how is she here is the changes the coronavirus it's taking over the life of the whole life and you know nothing nothing at all but. to come back to the question. protein and russia and the right side of history would mean to stop him to feel riddance in. other
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countries sawing discord and other countries too would too to do something that was positive energy not just everything with such negative and energy of what i see now and that's what i mean thank you very much let us take a closer look at now as we are history is taking the managed to democracy is a term used to describe not only russia's system but also those of key neighbors like the laos but many people there have had enough. mass protests have been held for weeks and bellow groups against alleged election fraud in the presidential election president look at security forces have brutally beaten down the protests and he has thrown off position politicians and demonstrators in jail but the opposition is not giving up hundreds of thousands of bellary sian's continue to take to the streets calling for a general strike and demanding that lucretia you'll step down opposition leaders.
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had to leave the country for her own safety the fight for our rights in belarus now for our dignity and i'm sure that the we'll succeed so no later russian president putin supports the bellary sian government but is continuing to hold back as long as looking power is not truly endangered. amid a difficult situation in belarus the relations with russia have a solid foundation. how far will putin go to maintain stability on russia's external borders. let me know what's your thinking in terms about could we see. generational change there or do you think go in the end will prevail perhaps not least thanks to help from put it i would divide between what we hope to see. her for if we hope to see it doesn't change our main
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aim the 1st man in germany or hope there for a change. but i'm a friend of her and it isn't because there's like. a couple of months ago last year that mr ward or what was the earth for the rest to be a president for france earlier and does appear to from the public view. very wary of her i'm afraid of so i think center of our what if anything might prompt putting to actively intervene how close are his relations with the question go goals close relations but still shouldn't forget that. it's not put in puppets he's doing his own policy whenever russia is too strong for him to press to do is press a button in the end here so what the west in my opinion. will not survive the next presidency he will go but not today in a couple of years but before that he will change the constitution and through will see you i think some some of the power structure. power momentums in this country
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so he now there is putting continues to exercise restraint could that incentivize opposition in other places kyrgyzstan for example where we're already seeing tensions or kazakhstan even do you think we could see further unrest in other parts of the neighborhood i would i would say that this depends on the situation of these countries and of course there is no protein in the root who can stop people going on streets as we saw this or see this in a ruse and in other countries not everything turns around putin and that's that's very important to know and not to fear just because putin doesn't lie such mass demonstrations such call are over lucian's
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that they shouldn't start it and i wouldn't agree that this is the scenery a lie in this way i think the time of looking over yes she fears protein thats right she is afraid of nothing annexation in his country and this time and. this is not over but you can't stop. the people thinking they want to change. and change isn't done and that's why i'm not so pessimistic about the lows that i'm as you told us that to the grid degree that there is negative public opinion in russia about putin it has to do with the perception that he's not doing enough about domestic challenges so does it matter to russians how we handle these tensions and conflicts in the area yes and no yes it's mother's because food
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preparing or close attention to a brothel or origin in their arsenal remember is concerned about this approach or that on the run and on the other hand there's no such things like free and democratic elections in russia sort of the populations in the pivot the government there's no chance to remove or sort of this government with other branch of government so even if it opposition or if it now and he she can do what they were here like some you tube but there's no chance for him to be a part of establishment of the become a bunch of what it tickle extinguishment and to change the sinks in the country so the british and you can be angry in your government as much as you want but you have no chance to change to change things on the legal way. let me take us to another place in the neighborhood namely the enclave of nagorno karabakh xander a nato member turkey is now intervening in support of about john while russia at least in the past has actually delivered weapons to both sides so what's putin
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really want there are simple he doesn't want to loose as a by john knows that armenia is. a part of the of russia because it is part of the eurasian union that's part of the military union with russia and it's dependent on russia but for putin it's more beneficial if turkey has its influence on in the caucasus than to have nato bases on the american supervision in the caucasus and therefore he doesn't want to lose a budge on to they took sabina i was not in there is turkey actually looking to challenge russia's head to moni in the region and do you think it could succeed i think. yes yes it is possible but i think the the. in my opinions in more important thing is that up. took a president is so he was for 4 full protein and to can't risk to loose at all on
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and on it's very important to saw discord and to divide nato that's the most important thing and they they both know what they do and they both won't risk they are i wouldn't say kind of cooperation but but they depend on each other and yeah that's why i think that is the sort of restrained off putting and maybe the reason is that looking at the e.u. has been accused of doing too little to push back against both turkey and. interesting lee enough russia joined forces with france and the u.s. to call for a cease fire is there perhaps even an opening here in regard to nagorno-karabakh and the tensions between a minion azerbaijan for closer cooperation between europe and russia research would
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be this very irish it's a march i'm not sure how the think will be developed it's. absurd if they agree with you putin and they're gong to bring the game or not though it's true in my opinion so i have. not the prognosis in any future developments on this topic how how close can i go to europe and you know. i'm going to go out of a. thank you very much elsewhere cooperation between russia and the west looks further away than ever following the short lived pledge by both sides to reset russian american relations an array of developments have driven the 2 further apart. ever since the successful revolution in ukraine the nation has been a thorn in the side of russia's president putin in february 24th teen he annexed the ukrainian peninsula of crimea supported by moscow separatists in eastern
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ukraine also quickly gained ground. in syria's civil war russian troops are fighting alongside those of the dictator. after the conflict russia wants to establish a permanent military presence in syria this would give russia direct access to the mediterranean and enable it to become a major player in the middle east. putin also wants to exert influence in the west using k.g.b. methods for example russia allegedly tried to influence the us elections in 2016 using cyber attacks and spreading fake news american secret services suspect there is currently a russian descent from ation campaign designed to help trump in the current presidential election. it shows the level of political culture or the absence of such i reiterate we don't interfere. will putin succeed in destabilizing the west. alexander harm in many respects trump with
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his undermining of trust in that the united states and its democratic system with his criticism of multilateralism of nato in particular has really played into proteins hence would you say that is by accident or by design. who is better for russia biden or porch and i think both are bad for russia i mean for pushing for russia or biden at least hopes to continue the talks on rearmament desire moment. with trump he may create a new world order and this may be a dream in russia and he knows that for trump the big enemy is china and not russia he wants to get to make deals with russia whether biden clearly said that russia is the biggest threats for the west let me come back to the question posed at the end of that short report said be that it was about whether putin is successfully
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destabilizing the west right now authorities in both the us and europe report significant evidence of russian descent from ation campaigns put teens neighborhood may be increasingly explosive as we've talked about but is he nonetheless succeeding quite well in exporting instability to the united states for example i would say yes absolutely he is an expert in this and resort a very short period of time this variously yeltsin years when information of war didn't play of all but putin revived this and. he uses this as a tool as a very effective tool to meddle in internal affairs to too small to score in not just in our neighbor countries like
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ukraine like like elect germany despite we are a direct neighbor but. in the u.s. and the overall goal i think is. who slender democracy itself and that's the very very dangerous thing and it's it's more important than everything else i in my opinion and at this point they meet together. trunk. and the 2 dictators in front of her and that's really newt. challenge and to serious challenge a lot of fear in view of all of that and in view of the recent attack on alexei nevada the the russian opposition politician should europe be doing more to sanction putin's abuses of power and his interference and if so what additional measures would work well received in. europe and sanctions in russia since for 6
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years from now for the ukraine and crimea and eastern ukraine. the question is not a free europe should do more but how effective this may honeys mara how much much influence the sanctions have on their behavior over russia is it possible to change their russian behavior by sanctions and the answer is not truly because we don't have any any substantial change in russian behavior on the euro political. stage as a result of dissension so we can. discussing science in europe and europe can impose sanctions some more russian fear or tree more russian citizens but the question is how how effective the sanctions will be. i think that there are some leading german politicians among them former chancellor gerhard schroeder have argued in recent years that it's time for a german russian reset or those voices growing quieter now after the attack on
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avanti not sure they are non-existent anymore i think. of the problems with russia are obvious. with the europe it was the european union with that same time we shouldn't destroy in my view what has been built between germany and russia for europe for european security in the past 30 years and in a dramatic way that. this can disappear and i think probably yes the west wants to punish russia than punish russia but on the other hand there's so many aspects where we should cooperate in future because we are not in the east west conflict anymore but in the last conflict we need a common view on how to talk to fight was a challenge which stands in front of us from the southeast for europe and for russia sabina other ukraine crimea syria there are enormous financial costs to putin's expansive moves could that prove to be a problem for him in the end of us lee not russia is rich enough to do this and.
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of course it would be much smarter to spend the money in the own country but he doesn't do it and i want to say that i can't agree that we juhani and russia to the same level destroyed the relationship as alexander has had it not not germany's destroyed sort of a ship not i kind. of have to say that we are just about out of time but let me come quickly back to our title which asked what is put a. yes go and write american fortunes goal was to restore russia's position in the world as a global player what do you think the history books will write will they say he succeeded might succeed just. as a truck enough that was so short as can be so a clear yes to that answer from that america is pissed off and many thanks to all of you for being with us today and thanks to all of you out there for tuning in and
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see you soon. up. as. much. of a. fight. not
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