tv Spatfolgen von COVID-19 Deutsche Welle April 7, 2021 9:30pm-10:01pm CEST
guns are growing you and i want to surrender. our experience you. can't sneak. into a show. and show you want to talk good things about your country because that's what you're paid to do every question you let on so far you have gone straight to the negative is bangladesh and i haven't given pardew's to convicted murderers so the certain 50 to 3 strikes. in many ways this affair prizing the for years now the government of bangladesh has been criticised around the world for its human rights record but its reputation received another jolt this month with the release of a new documentary alleging high level bribery and corruption my guest this week
from baca is gallery's me foreign affairs advisor to the country's prime minister the movie authority stop denying the truth about the repression they've inflicted and clean up their act. now have is very welcome to comfort zone thank you your country has become a byword for egregious human rights abuses which your government routinely did noise as an academic who's used to dealing in truth why do you have a government that seems to have so little regard for that commodity alyssa sebastian i think this question needs to be qualified. when you say yes. rights violations might pay. explain
that hoover's human rights is a very large. word but let me remind specific then let me be more specific arbitrary detention torture in force disappearances extrajudicial executions all of which your government is accused of by the un human rights groups around asia human rights watch amnesty international the committee against torture that's what i had and i well. i wish i could accept this allegation in its entirety i will run the did i say that there have not been instances of. disappear some disappearances. when you talk about torture there is no documented evidence of starter for the best of my. knowledge when committee against torture is
certain that it's carried out routinely it's received report after report that it's carried out routinely by your security forces and you would know you would have us believe that they've all got it wrong and where bangladesh i would not i would not deny it and i would not say that they have it wrong but i do also want to say that as far as the government is concerned culture is illegal and we try to make sure that carter doesn't take you know why i was objecting to the way you posed the question mr sebastian is because so many good things have happened in bangladesh. could a bangladesh is one of the spectacular successes of development yes and you're very good at promoting the successes economic successes for in front of your country and the like but that's not what i have come along about i'm not what i'm asking you
about i'm asking you about the things that have gone wrong in your country your government for instance claims 0 tolerance of corruption the boss of transparency international bangladesh himself summed up the extent of corruption when he accused the government going after only what he called the small fish the activities of corrupt leaders at the top are beyond our imagination he said we don't see repast investigation or effective legal action against any of those big players so so much for the the promise of 0 tolerance for corruption. if you if you recall about 6 to 9 months ago there was a big. action against various corrupt individuals and organizations many of them have been arrested police investigation is taking place. the anti corruption commission is an inquiry.
at the end of the day we have to follow additional process and this is a talent and fuming approach that i am not sick of the process is perfect i have got to say that there isn't sometimes a political. consideration also go into it this things are true but where i object and sebastian you are such an experience. is that. the great you read the picture it's all one sided that you think you will really work in the end up getting the wrong impression that well if i'm not i me painting the picture i'm relying on reports for internationally respected our organizations like human rights watch amnesty international committee again active in that we allow me to a balance that picture with the reality as it happened on the ground yes which is
which which you are doing but but over this has paved the way for a high profile documentary which was released this month by the al-jazeera network which alleged shocking levels of corruption among senior officials of your state and your government's immediate reaction was to brand the film false defamatory and the smear you didn't even bother to investigate 1st that's not the sponsor banani government. inquiry is taking place it is being inquired but let me really also. ask you the title of that a documentary was all the prime minister's men and we were told that it would expose corruption around the prime minister lew relievedly that documentary succeeded in doing that was there is a single evidence which intimidated the prime minister in the alleged.
corruption i mean this this is where i think as sensible academics and journalists we should stand back and ask ourselves what was the evidence. given to incriminate the prime minister's involvement and yet this whole document this was big. as to show how corrupt the regime dr reef we had some serious looking looking at the film which was produced by al jazeera he was a television team that was able to locate 2 high level fugitives from justice convict. whose elder brother just happens to be your serving chief of the army general this ahmed apparently your annoying forstmann couldn't find his brothers who were on the run but they did that's pretty embarrassing for you isn't it certainly but on the other hand again i'm not going to be defending everything but
the way you are putting the question to me i flew. a person be judged guilty because of the guilt of his brother i think this is a question we need to us now if the brother has. if. the brother in. law has helped his brothers to evade justice to avoid. further his criminal activity this accusation would be extremely extremely. valid what happened was long long before this gentleman. became the army chief all right well and let's just look at some of the details which came out in the film about the general general aftermath brothers. 2 of them and this and harris were found guilty of
involvement in the 1996 murder of a member of a rival party and both absconded from justice and went on the run now 3rd brother joseph was also convicted and spent more than 10 years on death row magically just before his brother as this was promoted to head of the army joseph gets a presidential pardon how did that happen is bangladesh in the habit of giving pardons to convicted murderers who gunned down their opponents on the street in cold blood is that what you did you give him a president. sebastian the certainty with which you are thinking in many ways is a surprisingly and you have linked the appointment of. which he and his brothers released. into one school let me remind you it is one of our a dr no no no no no mr sebastian let my point if you have to be pretty well connected to get a power for cold blood let me let me give you the facts then you draw your
conclusion please let me give you the fact that the brother in question has served about 20 years in prison that is if. law in the country that after serving a certain amount of years you may be given for were ot clemency by the president all this happened long before months and months before even the vacancy brother was appointed or arose it happened completely separately this man has 35 years left in the armed forces worked his way up. with a fairly clean record so why should be maligned. and link
link these 2 stories together i would like you to look at this time i would like to look at the timeline of the 2 events these are 6 months apart all right ok talk to me 3 the point is also which the film brought out is that your army chief knew perfectly well where his 2 other brothers were the ones that were on the run and apparently didn't tell the relevant authorities is not worth investigating it would be what investigated but please also you know as much as i do would this gentleman outside the jurisdiction of bangladesh and yet if this information had been available we would have tried to have extracted extradited them and provided we had an extradition treaty with this book and in fact in many cases we have done and there is no reason to believe that we would not
have done and you are quite right. that if this had provision had been available to the government the government would have taken action well perhaps this is all just too close to the higher echelons of power are too dangerous to delve into in the fact that nobody in your country wants to delve too deeply into suspicions of high level corruption do that too many people disappear and end up dead if they say the wrong thing and ask the wrong questions don't say fact of life in your country no dodo this is a bastion of. we we are proud. of it we are proud of our liberal democratic system we are proud that we have a prime minister. who has. a. very low intolerance of corruption our armed forces a family under civil control and therefore who says that.
corruption is connected at the high level but how do you how is it how is it then that in a state which is supposed to have a functioning justice system that these 2 fugitive brothers rerum each even an innocent harris convicted murderers actually are reported to have to return to tackle in broad daylight in 2019 to celebrate a family wedding there are many fugitive killers who can shop in a big society wedding mingle with the president dignity a master have protection right at the top you know that as well however. we are both you are absolutely right if it was known to anyone that this gentleman have returned to bangladesh. immediately they would have been apprehended there is no. question about that they were pictured at the wedding talk
to reveal a picture let let let let us know i mean literally club to convey murderous uncles of the bridegroom happily celebrating with everyone else we at telescoping something that happened over 25 years. into a single incident the the brothers had committed a crime in 1906. long before gen and this had even joined the army as a cadet we now. go forward 25 years later and we are think that these 2 men came back to bangladesh. and if they did and as the photographs this was absolutely a great failure of our. justice ministry
and the. immigration police in the air force that is the question about that but you will also have to understand that these people had acquired different pass. which unless it was known to the government unless that was on the watch this it is quite easy for them to have slipped in along with thousands of other people who come in and wow i am not running for one moment suggesting that this has not been a failing of the government it was done at the only really. that's arisen. in a democracy with the kind of free press that you've claimed exists in bangladesh all these allegations from al-jazeera would be plastered all over the newspapers in the broadcast media but hands of
a something that the dhaka tribune sought to explain when they wrote to its readers the reason for our silence it said is simple the current state of media and defamation law makes it unwise for any bangladeshi media house to venture into any kind of meaningful comment on the controversy that's it isn't that you have cowed the media into submission and muzzled it said become afraid of a 1000 shadow you proud of that. if if it were. true as you say i would be ashamed of it but let me tell you what the truth is yes are you saying the paper is lying or are you saying the newspaper blowing. let me not. yet and won't let me give you the explanations indeed there is a thing called digital security act it is to prevent. violent
rumors and inciting of people through the. digital platform this law unfortunately which our government inherited was the i think the act was passed in 1906. our government devised it and it is now called the digital security act but sadly we have now are learned that some of the words a very loose and rick. which leaves it open to abuse but would jump from there to say that the press has been muscle to say that there is no freedom of press in bangladesh let me just tell you there are probably 3 you have over 5060 daily newspapers been published from the low
countries where anarchy in criminal bribery and some police i understand amnesty international said that in the 1st 9 months of last year more than 800 cases were filed under this act with police language that you talk about with many of the most prominent editors and senior journalists increasingly targeted 800 cases in this with using this law which your government apparently inherited your government doesn't seem to have any reservations about using this law does it time to admit you have is nothing but a weapon the silence critics and suppress dissent that's the truth of it if i know i would accept your criticism and i would have accepted your allegations had you asked the human rights watch of the 800 or so. and i'm taking your freedom as you as you gave it to me who were arrested how many of them very
german you know you who have used abroad figure of 800 how we faced a serious a terrorist attacks in this country we had to fight to fight hard against terrorism how many of those 800 were actually terrorists how many of those 800. criminals who incited violence. activity without differentiating you have given me the film figure of. please i challenge you to look at that. and tell me how many were actually journalists and what i can i can't break i can break down some of those figures for you because human rights groups are pretty much united in their condemnation of your government's crackdown on free speech especially during the current trend that make human rights watch said you've arrested journalists artists students doctors
political opposition members and activists who spoke out against the government's response to the pandemic or otherwise criticize the ruling party last june you even arrested a 15 year old boy for allegedly defaming the prime minister on facebook the child was sentenced to time in a juvenile detention all right thanks let me now. and sadness question as as as clearly as i possibly can you have been telling you are telling your viewers that during this period of pandemic the government did all sorts of horrible things. have you told your r.d.s. that bangladesh is one of the few in the world compared to your own tent in the u.k. the united states or anywhere else in the world where we have actual spendable really
well with our limited resources we have one of the lowest death rates in the world we have the highest rate of recovery we have expanded our hospitals to provide treatment one of these facts mentioned you have picked up 15 example or so i'm sure you want to change the subject doctor is wrong and i'm sure you want to talk good things about your country because that's what you're paid to do that's why you know government that's why you come to realize. why it is like a way i was why i'm asking do you turn a blind eye to what the un committee against torture has been calling the widespread and retain commission of torture and ill treatment you passed an act in 2013 supposedly outlawing torture but 6 years later only 17 cases had been filed against security personnel and not
a single one had been completed by 6 years later not one in 6 years had been greeted is that a proud achievement for government is that allegedly is cracking down on torture didn't visit it's a great. well let me again think you're right in the sense when you say that it is in several. number of. cases of dark that have been filed and none of them yes. i take your statement to be 3 and i will agree that this is not a very. good. record but the truth of the matter is we did pass a law. the truth of the matter is we are trying to build a bill with it and where i am constantly objecting not because you think i'm doing this because i and i'll use it i am paid.
to do this i might done the same thing to you and say is this not right that you are you are being paid simply to make this attacks that are putting it into broad wide context every question you have asked so. you have gone straight into the negative mention even and then when you said very clearly that all this horrible thing that happened please tell me another country in the whole wide world with just the pandemic as effectively as our government has been done for is a very good tactic to change the subject but i don't want to leave it because you said your government is taking action against human rights abuses are is it time to take action against members of the so called rapid action but alyan that you
have because they the un says its members have been credibly alleged to have committed torture arbitrary arrests and acknowledged detention disappearances and extrajudicial killings of people in their custody you tell me about the good things your country has done but i am not embarrassed with the actions that this rapid action battalion has been carrying out in the name of your government your government is killing the feeling against killing it. let me say with all orders and humility and embarrassment that the sum of that is that you have just. stated are true there have been instances of that which nobody in the government is our right my friend but and lou what you are john who's in charge or so of course there wasn't a memorandum on anything about that. with mr sebastian let me finish you have asked
me a question let me finish answering what you did not see in your. question is how many of those. rapid battalion police force have been removed from services how many of them are under investigation and how many of them have been charged this was not mentioned by you this is the role of the government that when it finds out that something had some degree just while ation of human rights or law has taken place there must get to the bottom i don't think you're always at that but i do resent not being given the credit or the efforts that you have. all right talked to gary's me being good to have you in conflict thank you very much indeed. thank you miss most about the job in fact. i don't think
we ask why. because of education makes the world more just. to make up your own mind. w. me for minds and literature invites us to see people in particular. to see how so as the kids find the strength grownup girl. might serve as the sheriff. to do for you books on you to. the. little guys this is the 77 percent stuff out fall off of his suits to speech issues right. you know for this. caption. africa's population is growing.
and young people clearly have the solution. 77 percent knock. on d.w.m. . as death times are good or the. warming doesn't. include the most well known yet. the industry is controlling your thoughts on the great books of the 20th century. the present day hoax is. raising the money. to go against george may 3rd.
thanks. this is. from berlin tonight 2 announcements one message the u.k. and the european union say there may be a link between the. vaccine and. the head of the euro. medicine's agency and its british counterpart today both said clothing is a potential side effects though they continue to say the benefits of the vaccine still outweigh the risks also coming up tonight brazil records its highest ever daily death toll from 19 more than $4000.00 deaths within the last 24 hours.
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