tv Fit und gesund Deutsche Welle April 8, 2021 5:30am-6:01am CEST
they share private students with us and see the. back. story of people 20 on the w. . and show you want to talk good things about your country because that's what you're paid to do everything that's going to level off you have gone straight to the legacy is bangladesh and the habit of giving partners to convicted murderers so the certain 50 of the rich who are. in many ways it's a surprisingly for years now the government of bangladesh has been criticized around the world for its human rights record but its reputation received another jolt this month with the release of a new documentary alleging high level bribery and corruption and my guest this week
from baca is galahad rizvi foreign affairs advisor to the country's prime minister the movie authority stop denying the truth about the repression they've inflicted and clean up their act. now here is very welcome to comfort zone thank you your country has become a byword for egregious human rights abuses which your government routinely did noise as an academic who's used to dealing in truth why do you so have a government that seems to have so little regard for that commodity a missile sebastian i think this question needs to be qualified. when you say yes but rights violations might pay. explain that hoover's human rights is
a very large. word well let me remind specific then let me be more specific arbitrary detention torture in force disappearances extrajudicial executions all of which your government is accused of by the un human rights groups around asia human rights watch amnesty international the committee against torture that's what i had and i well. i wish i could accept the allegation in its entirety i will run the did i say that there have not been instances of. some disappearances. when you talk about culture there is no documented evidence of torture to the best of my. knowledge un committee against torture is
certain that it's carried out routinely it's received report after report that it's carried out routinely by your security forces and you would really would have us believe that they've all got it wrong and went bang no i would not i would not deny it and i would not say that they have it wrong but i do also want to say that as far as the government is concerned torture is illegal and we try to make sure that carter doesn't take you know why i was objecting to the way you posed the question mr sebastian is because so many good things have happened in bangladesh. could a bangladesh is one of the spectacular successes of development yes and you're very good at promoting the successes economic successes for in front of your country and the like but that's not what i have come along about i'm not what i'm asking you
about i'm asking you about the things that have gone wrong in your country your government for instance claims 0 tolerance of corruption where the boss of transparency international bangladesh himself summed up the extent of corruption when he accused the government of coming after only what he called the small fish the activities of corrupt leaders at the top are beyond our imagination he said we don't see repast investigation or effective legal action against any of those big players so so much for the the promise of 0 tolerance for corruption. if you if you recall about 6 to 9 months ago there was a big. action against various corrupt individuals and organizations many of them have been arrested police investigation is taking place. the anti-corruption commission is an inquiry. at the end of the
day we have to follow additional process and this is a time consuming process i am not saying our process is perfect i have got to say that there isn't sometimes a political. situation also go into it this things are true but where i object and sebastian you are such an experienced. journalist. is that the grade you were in the picture it's all one side that you think you will really work the end up getting the wrong impression that well if i'm not i mean painting the picture i'm relying on reports from internationally respected our organizations like human rights watch amnesty international committee again active in that is allowing me to a balance that picture with the reality as it happened on the ground yes which is
which which you are doing but but all of this has paved the way for a high profile documentary which was released this month by the al-jazeera network which alleged shocking levels of corruption among senior officials of your state and your government's immediate reaction was to brand the film false defamatory and the smear you didn't even bother to investigate 1st that's not the sponsor banani government is that. inquiry is taking place it is being inquired but let me really also. ask you the title of that a documentary was all the prime minister's men and we were told that it would expose corruption around the prime minister lew relievedly that documentary succeeded in doing that was there is single evidence which intimidated the prime
minister in the alleged. corruption i mean this list is where i think as sensible academics and journalists we should stand back and ask ourselves what was the evidence. given to incriminate the prime minister's involvement and yet this whole document this was big. as to show how corrupt the regime is going to reach we had some serious looking looking at the film which was produced by al jazeera he was a television team that was able to locate 2 high level fugitives from justice convict. whose elder brother just happens to be your serving chief of the army general as this ultimate apparently your annoyance forstmann couldn't find his brothers who were on the run but they did that's pretty embarrassing for you isn't it sensitively but on the other hand again i'm not going to be defending everything
but the way you are putting the question to me i flew it is. a person be judged guilty because of the guilt of his brother i think this is a question we need to us now if the brother has. if. the brother in. law has helped his brothers to evade justice to avoid. further his criminal activity this accusation would be extremely extremely. valid what happened was long long before this gentleman. became the army chief all right well and let's just look at some of the details which came out in the film about the general general aftermath brothers. 2 of them and this and harris were found guilty of
involvement in the 1996 murder of a member of a rival party and both absconded from justice and went on the run now 3rd brother joseph was also convicted and spent more than 10 years on death row magically just before his brother as he's was promoted to head of the army joseph gets a presidential pardon how did that happen is bangladesh in the habit of giving pardons to convicted murderers to gun down their opponents on the street in cold blood is that what you did you give him a president. mr sebastian the certainty with which you are speaking in many ways is a surprisingly and you have linked the appointment of our which he and his brothers released. into one school let me remind you there is one hour a doctor no no no no no mr sebastian let me watch for you because you have to be pretty well connected to get a powered in for cold blood let me let me give you the facts then you'll draw your
conclusion please let me give you the fact that the brother in question has served about 20 years in prison that is if. law in the country that after serving a certain amount of years you may be given for were ought clemency by the president all this happened long before months and months before even the vacancy brother was appointed or arose it happened completely separately this man has 35 years left in the armed forces what his way up. with a fairly clean record so why should be maligned. and link
link these 2 stories together i would like you to look at the time i would like to look at the timeline of the 2 events these are fixed months apart all right ok talk to me 3 the point is also which the film brought out is that your army chief knew perfectly well where his 2 other brothers were the ones that were on the run and apparently didn't tell the relevant authorities is not worth investigating it would be averted investigated but please also you know as much as i do would this gentleman outside the jurisdiction of bangladesh and yet if this information had been available we would have tried to have extracted extradited them and provided we had an extradition treaty with this book and in fact in many cases we have done and there is no reason to believe that we would not
have done and you are quite right. that if this had provisions had been available to the government the government would have taken action well perhaps this is all just too close to the higher echelons of power are too dangerous to delve into in the fact that nobody in your country wants to delve too deeply into suspicions of high level corruption do that too many people disappear and end up dead if they say the wrong thing and ask the wrong questions don't say fact of life in your country no dodo this is a bastion of. we we are proud. of it we have proud of our liberal democratic system we are proud that we have a prime minister. who has. a very low intolerance of corruption our armed forces a family under civil and troll and therefore who say that.
corruption is connected at the high level well how do you how is it how is it then that in a state which is supposed to have a functioning justice system that these 2 fugitive brothers of your amici vanished and harris convicted murderers actually are reported killed returned to tackle in broad daylight in 2019 to celebrate a family wedding not many fugitive killers who can shop in a big society wedding mingle with the president of dignity i must have protection right at the top you know that as well i do i we are we are both you are absolutely right if it was known to anyone that this gentleman have returned to bangladesh. immediately they would have been apprehended there is no. question about it but they were pictured at the wedding
doctrine let let let let let us ronnie military club to convict murders uncles of the bridegroom happily celebrating with everyone else we are at telescoping something that happened over 25 years. into a single incident the the brothers had committed a crime in 1906. long before gen and this had even joined the army as a cadet we now. go forward 25 years later and we are saying that these 2 men came back to bangladesh. and if they did and as the photographs this was absolutely a great failure of our. justice
administrator and the. immigration police in the air force that is the question about that but you will also have to understand that these people had acquired different pass. which unless it was known to the government unless that was on the watch this it is quite easy for them to have slipped in along with thousands of other people who come in and wow i am not running for one moment suggesting that this has not been a failing of the government it was done of the argument. that's arisen. in a democracy with the kind of free press that you've claimed exists in bangladesh all these allegations from al-jazeera would be plastered all over the newspapers in the broadcast media but hands of a something that the dhaka tribune sought to explain when they wrote to its readers
the reason for our silence it said is simple the current state of media and defamation law makes it unwise for any bangladeshi media house to venture into any kind of meaningful comment on the controversy that's it isn't that you have come out the media into submission and muzzled it said become afraid of it sound shadow are you proud of that. if if it were. true as you say i would be ashamed of it but let me tell you what the truth is yes are you saying the paper is lying or are you saying the newspapers lying. let me not. yes let me give you the explanations in this there is a thing called digital security act it is to prevent. violent
rumors and inciting of people through the. digital platform this law unfortunately. our government inherited was the i think the act was passed in 1906 our government devised it and it is now called the digital security act but sadly we have now are learned that some of the words a very loose and very rich leaves it open to abuse but to jump from there to say that the press has been muscle to say that there is no freedom of press in bangladesh let me just tell you there are probably 3 over 5060 daily newspapers been published from the. top to
retail anarchy encouraging private companies i understand amnesty international said that in the 1st 9 months of last year more than $800.00 cases were filed under this act with the loose language that you talk about with many of the most prominent editors and senior journalists increasingly targeted 800 cases in this with using this law which your government apparently inherited your government doesn't seem to have any reservations about using this law does it mean to admit you have is nothing but a weapon the silence critics and suppress dissent that's the truth of the divide. no i would accept your criticism and i would have accepted your allegations had you asked the human rights watch of the 800 or so. and i'm taking your freedom as you as you gave me who were arrested how many of them are very
german you know you who have used a broad figure of 800 how we faced a serious a terrorist attacks in this country we had to fight to fight hard against terrorism how many of those 800 were actually terrorists how many of those 800. criminals who incited violence. activity without differentiating you have given me the phil figure of. police i challenge you to look at that figure and tell me how many were actually journalists and what i can i can break i can break down some of those figures for you because human rights groups are pretty much united in their condemnation of your government's crackdown on free speech especially during the current trend that make human rights watch said you arrested journalists artists students doctors political
opposition members and activists who spoke out against the government's response to the pandemic or otherwise criticize the ruling party last june you even arrested a 15 year old boy for allegedly defaming the prime minister on facebook the child was sentenced to time in a juvenile detention all right thanks let me now. unsub this question as as as clearly as i possibly can you have been telling you are telling your viewers that during this period of pandemic the government did all sorts of horrible things. have you told your r.d.s. that unless this is one of the few in the world compared to your own in the u.k. the united states or anywhere else in the world where we have acted spendable
really well with our limited resources we have one of the lowest death rates in the world we have the highest rate of recovered we have assessed and that our hospitals to provide treatment none of these facts are mentioned you have picked up 15 example or so i'm sure you want to change the subject to resign or not show you want to talk good things about your country because that's what you're paid to do that's why you're no government that's why i'm from the hard. line i will why i'm asking do you turn a blind eye to what the un committee against torture has been calling the widespread and routine commission of torture and ill treatment you passed an act in 2013 supposedly outlawing torture but 6 years later only 17 cases had been filed against security personnel and not
a single one had been completed by 6 years later not one in 6 years had been greeted is that a proud achievement for government it is that allegedly is cracking down on torture given this it it's a great. well let me again say you're right in the sense when you say that he is in 70. x. number of. target have been filed and none of them yes. i take your statement to be 3 and i will agree that this is not a very. good. raffle but the truth of the matter is we did pass a law. the truth of the matter is we are trying to build a bill with it and where i am constantly objecting not because you think i'm doing this because i and i'll use it i am paid.
to do this i might done the same thing to you and say is it not right that you are you are being paid simply to make this attacks that are putting it into broad wide on every question you have out so far you have gone straight into the negative mentions even on them when you said very clearly that all this horrible thing that happened please tell me another country in the whole wide world with just the pandemic as effectively as our government. the answer is a very good tactic to change the subject but i don't want to leave it because you said your government is taking action against human rights abuses are is it time to take action against members of the so called rapid action the tally in that you have because they the un says its members have been credibly alleged to have
committed torture arbitrary arrests and acknowledged detention disappearances and extrajudicial killings of people in their custody you tell me about the good things your country has done but i am not embarrassed with the actions that this rapid action but alan has been carrying out in the name of your government your government is killing the level against killing it. let me say with all orders and humility and embarrassment that the some of that is that you have just. stated are true that have been instances of that which nobody in the government in his or her right mind defend but and lou what you do john who's in charge or so of course there wasn't a memorandum on anything about that. with mr sebastian let me finish you have asked
me a question let me finish answering what you did not see in your. question is how many of those. rapid battalion police force have been removed from services how many of them are under investigation and how many of them have been charged this was not mentioned by you this is the role of the government that when it finds out that something has the biggest while ation of human rights or law has taken place there must get to the bottom i don't think we are all of us. but i do resent not being given the credit for the efforts that we have. all right talked to gary's me been good to have you in conflict thank you very much indeed. thank you myth about you know been fucked up and you
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