that's d w dot com. ah, ah, his name is on war ross lot today a german cord sentence, the former syrian colonel to life in prison for crimes against humanity. prosecutors accused him of running a detention center for the assad regime and of overseeing the torture of $4000.00 people, including 60 deaths. ruslan became a refugee and arrived here in germany. in 2014, he thought that he had left the civil war and his dark secret behind him. and he did for a while. but today his past and the forces of justice, they finally caught up with him. i break off in berlin. this is the day. ah,

i am so happy because the victory victory for justice. this verdict is extremely important. it is indeed a watershed moment. it set, i think, at mission of the cons, konica being here yet. and my brother was killed directly by security policies. while on a demonstration, i hope the better lease sent with me for the future. it's, we can do the full celia and future of c. also coming up the u. s. nato. and now the o. s. c e. it has been a week of high level high stakes talks to stop russia from invading ukraine. did all the talking make a difference. tonight, an exclusive interview with native chief,

jens stoughton. back. we need to continue the dual truck opposed to russia. we are ready to darla with them, said that yesterday, but also prepared and for russia once against thoughts to submit to force against the navy. ah, would you, our viewers watching on p b. s in the united states into all of you around the world? welcome. we begin the day with the lesson and how one mans past finally called up with him. today, a court here in germany sentenced a former syrian colonel to life in prison for crimes against humanity, prosecutors, so that 58 year old on war rosslyn oversold torture at a syrian detention center. more than a decade ago, roslin becomes the 1st ranking syrian official to be convicted of war crimes. prosecutor say this landmark case is just the beginning of a process of gathering evidence in the hopes of one day bringing to justice higher ranking syrian officials, including syrian liter marshall allison today sentencing represents the

nexus of 2 chapters of german history. in the aftermath of the 2nd world war, the nuremberg trials of nazi criminals established the principle of universal jurisdiction. it allows cases of crimes against humanity and genocide to be tried almost anywhere regardless of where the crimes were committed. now when syrians began fling their country civil war 10 years ago, some like and war roslyn came here to germany, hoping to escape their criminal past. as fate would have it. other syrians arrived who had no intention of forgetting. they helped the prosecution and they played a key role in overcoming time and geography. forcing on war ruslan to face justice release unhappiness at the trials, verdict, relatives and friends of victims of the assad regime had gathered outside the court building and cobblins waiting for the outcome. among them the syrian journalist,

luna, what fun. she attended every day of and while rosalind trials since had begun in 2020 for her, the guilty verdict is groundbreaking. after all, at the multi, i had yeoman makin the verdict doesn't mark a conclusion cutaway. but these are, it's just the beginning. i describe it to jazz or more trials, must follow this when i was thought about that in the in halo he, every day. what fo, works under cover name to protect herself. she was the only syrian journalist continuously reporting from co blends. the trial of n y ross lun seen here and obscured footage from before. the verdict had great personal meaning for watha. zaplishny riley is this is very important to me. any ability because i was also a political prisoner. i learned about that. and when the witnesses give their testimonies and tell their stories, i also hear my story. he isolated than villa ish. in fact, my,

i'm also writing my story behind the scenes that union. i'll my negotiation. prosecutors alleged rosslyn had let the secret service unit responsible for torture and killings at alkahottie prison and damascus. they charged him with crimes against humanity, including $4000.00 counts of torture and dozens of murders. they sought and were given a life sentence for his crimes. during the trial, what for re lived her own experience in alcott iep in 2013 agents arrested her for research in the chemical weapons attack on eastern gouter. by then ross la no longer worked at alca t. what was spent more than a year in prison, suffering serious abuse. most of all, she was scared for her children. when she got out, she fled from syria with her family and moved to cobblins, were unwell? roslyn was tried with the trial concluded, what was thought of returned to syria,

and i sigh for an ha fear they will fall, many victims who were tortured in the same city. and the same prison as me. ah, as that is, numbers out of hell knows what this verdict represents, at least some reparation and justice for them. i didn't kill, she didn't know many of them on to see the same type of child happening in syria along with many look on how to ship sweetie alo, a trial such as this and syria remains a distant prospect with thanks to the principle of universal jurisdiction under which wrestlin was tried, there is no safe haven for perpetrators of crimes against humanity and germany no matter where those crimes were committed. and for reaction to today's sentencing of joy, now by kenneth rother, the executive director for human rights watch. kenneth, it's good to have you back on the day you and i have spoke numerous times about

efforts to bring justice to those who who have and who continued to commit war crimes and crimes against humanity and syria. how important is today's sentencing of anwar roslyn? this is a truly historic moment. it's the 1st judgment of its sort. and to put this in perspective, the assad government in syria has perceived this war really through a war crime strategy that's been the entire way they fought. they have deliberately bombed hospitals and schools and market places. they'd use chemical weapons against their own people. they knew starvation as a method of war. and the issue here in this, this trial was a pervasive use of arbitrate attention, torture entity, thousands of executions. now, the assad government denies all this. the obvious place to have held a trial would have been the international criminal court, but syria never joined the court. and the only route to the court than would have been through the un security council, which russia and china blocked with their veto. so, a number of governments,

germany included, helped to circumvent the veto in the un security council by going to the un general assembly. and getting it to create what's known as the international independent impartial mechanism. triple i am precision, which is on basically a prosecutor with our jurisdiction. so there is today a french prosecutor sitting in geneva, collecting evidence of these atrocities and, and making it possible for a prosecutor ne, a small town like a glance to pursue a case like this. because in fact, there are now reams of records about the atrocities about the chain of command and so on. it is possible to exercise this concept of universal jurisdiction as to say, you know, the ability to pursue things like war crimes, crimes against humanity, torture in any available court. and that becomes more possible now because of this repository of evidence sitting in geneva. that was an important part of the trial pro plans, and this is now an historic step forward, an actual fair trial and

a conviction. and kind of what you're saying is that we would maybe have written a gotten to this verdict earlier, we would be seeing even more trials if it weren't for china and russia standing in their way. or are you saying that they are protecting more criminals inside of syria? well, it's worse than that. i mean, yes, china's protecting war criminals. russia is participating in the war crimes. if you look at the bombing today or into quite recently, of the hospitals in the schools, in the markets, in the apartment buildings more often these days, that's russian jets rather than serial. so in a rush is completely a partner in the crimes of the air. you know, russia isn't as present on the ground for the kind of torture. that was the focus in co glance. but russia has a direct, you know, personal interest in avoiding accountability for these crimes. because it is an active participant in these groups. why are we calling them out there more at the un security council, for example?

well, the u. s. security council can't speak because the russian detail. so it is, it's been in fact very difficult even for the security house to authorize cross borders, monitoring assistance for turkey into the parts of syria. still held by the armed opposition in russia, very reluctantly goes along and has gradually been reducing the entrances to serial number one. um, so, but to go beyond that, to, to spring in the trash can report to condemn the atrocities and syria. russia absolutely precludes that. and that's a real weakness of the structure, the security council, you're the 5 permanent members, the u. s. a. china, russia, france, and britain. each of them has a veto. each can prevent a resolution from going forward. they're not supposed to use us in this kind of narrow something should way they're not supposed to, didn't offend the perpetrators of mass atrocities. but that's exactly what russia and china been doing in the case of syria and elsewhere, i should say. like, you know, more than 2500 miles away from where we are right now in syria. the misery for

millions who are still living under a saw that misery continues and it's faded a lot from the public's radar. we have to admit that. what does today's landmark court case? what does it mean for those syrians? well, you know, one important element of this is, there are certain countries. denmark is a good example which want to pretend that it's safe to send syrian refugees back to syria because in most of syria, the wars of restricting the assad government back to its usual repressive ways. but you know, human rights watches done investigations where we found that, you know, people who on go back to syria relative handful people are treated as suspicious just because they laughed and they are subject to the same detention centers. the same torture, the same risk of atrocity so um, in what we saw today in plants that the focus of this trial is an ongoing reality. and we should remember this in germany. it's been very generous and why when syrian refugees, but other countries just can't wait to send the back. and that is completely wrong

because it would be sending them back to the persecution. there was the heart of this child, kenneth roth, with human rights watch him. it's always good talking with you valuable, valuable context to help us understand what, what continues to go on inside and outside of syria. thank you. i give it theme, read the risk of war in there always c area is now greater than ever before. in the last 30 years, there's a stark warning there from poland, foreign minister, who also chairs the 50 southern member o. s. c e. the organization for security and cooperation in europe. his commons follow a series of talks this week between russia and western diplomats on tensions over ukraine. european union, foreign and defense ministers held their own meeting on russia today the you held no direct talks with the kremlin this week,

but it's foreign policy chief denies that europe is being left out of negotiations, especially with the threat of war in its own bank. your we are in close cooperation and we are assured that nothing will be decided. i know even negotiating with the russians without a close coordination with europe. and with that dissipation of europeans assumed visual. so after a week of high level talks between russia in the west, we are clear on 2 things, non starters and red lines. if the security of europe is facing its greatest threat in 30 years, what can, what will nato be able to do about it? the w's brussels corresponded. terry schultz asked the man at the center of this week's negotiations, nato chief ins. stoughton bare. thank you very much, sir. mister secretary general for making time for us to day. so i want to start off with an assessment by putting spokesman dmitri past gov, just in the last couple of hours. that said the talks here were unsuccessful. now,

that's not necessarily a bad thing for needle given what the russians hopes to accomplish. dividing allies, getting promise is not to expand, things like that, but what would be your assessment of how the council went yesterday? i think it was an important meeting, a because just the fact that 13 their dollars were able to sit down with russia after 2 years, you know, meeting in meetings in that or should council was important. the discussions there were very difficult. we were there for 4 hours, but if i thought we had difficulties who discussions i should from you just proves the importance of the meeting. and because we are faced with a very critical, oh, time for you to pin security and i believe that is bored to sit down and address those issues. we listened to the russian concern. we presented our position, sir, we are ready to engage in dialogue. rashandra will never compromise on core principles for europeans are good. have you heard anything back from them yet? i am. i am in. it's only been 24 hours. but did you, when you said that, you,

you offered them a series of talks about things other than ukraine, issues of, of mutual concern for the alliance. and for russia, would you be willing to go into those talks without discussing ukraine on would those be completely irrelevant of whether there is any progress or even any discussion on the d escalation over crowns in crown will be part of those discussions. we list the long arranged different top piece we could discuss which are important for you to pin security or but for instance, also arms control or limitation song or the number of miss ours earned. but this has to be reciprocal balance than verifiable and measures to increase transparency on military activities are, are risk reduction. many other issues are and we believe that it's scope to actually find new since in some of these areas. but to do so, we need preparations. we need to meet our needs or a good faith or in addressing the substance. and russia was not in the position.

and i in the way, i didn't expect that either. but they were not the position to yesterday in the meeting to say we are ready to engage. but we are offered up a possibility and then they have to go back to moscow consult and then we will get an answer for them later on. and, but again, would they have to discuss ukraine as well in connection with this? i mean, we know that ukraine has to be on the agenda of every nato, russia council, since 2014, if they were not willing to deescalate, were not willing to take those steps. would you also be willing to enter discussions on other subjects but, but this is very much intertwined as like as soon as we discussed you to pin security. and as soon as we discussed the risk reduction, transparency, of course ukraine will be part of those, those discussions. but i think the best way now is not to conduct diplomacy in a, in media, in the public. it is to express their willingness as we did in the meeting, us there to address a wide range of issues. are we it? we stay the covert. ready to put, put my proposals on the table computer forces on the table or in to listen to their concerns and not ready to go compromise on core principles. but there are many of

the issues to discuss. and then if there was it done, let's sit down and then in the meetings, not in the media or start to negotiations on the talks. did the russians ask for this to be in writing? is that one of the things that may be holding up a response, or we are the also to provide her proposals or in writing. and we are made that clear. and then there are different formats. of course, some of this issues can be discussed or in the nato, russia, council, or the issues may be at negotiate bilateral, united states, or russia, or the strategic talks on nuclear issues. and then we have the all c as in other fora. and then you have normandy format with germany and frances wearing gauge. and i would like to command france and germany. what to do in norman, the former, for that many different platforms that we can address different issues. but i think the nato russia council is important, or in a way to coordinate their to allies, to convey, says united message from that while as to, to russia and also toward the identify different issues where we can work an address and sit down and, and see if we can find a bullet way forward, do you think allies were satisfied with the u. s. russian bilateral talks on,

we're hearing the u. s. may have brought up some repositioning of forces in europe during those talks in not everybody's comfortable with that. well, they're not just as a med video but declared that those meetings were not negotiations or actions. and on the same as we did here in brussels or in the literature council we, we floated ideas. we're looking for ways and i, and topics and i, and, and, and, and, and ways to organize the process or can ensure a political way forward. or what we welcome is the very close consultation between and united states and european r as they consulted before the meeting in geneva, russia. they consulted afterwards. and the, and that is some people also know whether europe is at the table while europe is at the table. or yesterday, in the meeting with the network in an address or council, we had 30 after 28 hours, sir. ah, you'd be an hours at the table. so europe is at the table. that's what makes it neat, thought unique. it brings europe north america together. also,

and engage with russia, if it, as many times as you say that russia should not have a veto over certainly expansion, but other things, doesn't it feel like we are all at this moment sitting, waiting for president putin just to decide if he wants to go ahead with talk, he still does to some extent have a say over what everyone else is doing with the alliance is dealing with rational decides what they do. and they have a choice either to engage in dialogue. her with nato or, and her western allies or, or a confrontation. therefore, we need to be clear eyed about the prospects over there that we will not have dialogue. but actually that russell, a once again will use military force against ukraine. but then we have state clearly that there will be severe consequences for ukraine heavy economic sanctions . we will provide support to ukraine with also enabled a distinct there being to defend himself on a dollars will of course do what is necessary to make sure that we have the necessary forces in easton bottom lines to put urn to, to defend, but also deter,

against integration against, than it was deputy foreign minister, crisco said in his press conference after the meeting that russia has no troops in the dumbass is that your assessment as well. russia controls are the separatist and dawn was on the, on the, on the and through them they have presence in the eastern part of, of the ukraine. there's no doubt about that at this very moment. ra, military chiefs are meeting, and one of their priorities is to discuss what can and should be done in case of an incursion, in case russia goes further. and perhaps, even in case russia discontinued to keep the tension level as it is right now, which is also, you know, untenable for, for many countries. um, so when do you feel like after this meeting, the likelihood that russia would step over that line is, is less because of these talks. and what do you think of suggestions that some allies, me preposition, more equipment in ukraine as a, as a sort of trip wire. in case that happens so that you would be more prepared even

though everyone knows ukraine is not an ally of neighborhoods plans in both for many different term contingencies. or, of course the natal can always protect on the front, allow us, and also deter and aggression against dollars. ukraine is a partner. it's not too cold by our collective defense, a closed article 5. but alice provide support or song that support is provided through nato. a capacitor building trust funds and so on. but also a lot of that support is private, bilateral, from different dollars united states, and that the kingdom, canada, and others. and i welcome that, ah, but then, although this is of course help being ukraine to defend himself. and that's important because at central superman situation and is that invasion less likely today than it was yesterday? i think it's too early to, to, to assess the, the outcome of this meeting because they're not seeing the response from russia yet . but i think the most important thing is that we need to continue the dual truck approach. russia, we are ready to darla. we demonstrate that yesterday,

but also prepared and for russia once against thoughts or two's military force against the neighbor. all right, that's all my time. thank you very much. thank you. that was d w. terry schultz, talking to nato secretary general. you in stoughton beg? you can track the latest developments from our team in brussels on twitter at d, w underscore. europe. ah, in less than 4 weeks, beijing will present a winter olympics without real snow. instead, most of what athletes will compete on will be artificial. hundreds of snow machines have been at work creating slopes over the past few months. it's a process that requires huge amounts of water and energy, which is environmentally damaging. it's prompted one sides is to call beijing the least sustainable games of all time. can leaders of snow per 2nd? that's how much the machines blast out on to the slopes. and they've been running

around the clock since mid november. they have to, because this winter wonderland is a far cry from the barren reality of the typical landscape. it rarely snows in the mountains surrounding beijing. even the water has to be pumped from far away lakes to the olympic sites. austrian manuel ship and his team tend to the snow working in high winds and temperatures of around minus 25 degrees celsius. citing the same what he explained. it gets extremely cold from december on and then there's the wind as well. it's just really, really dry storage so much so that the ground hardly ever freezes, as there's no moisture in the ground. the olympic slopes will need over 2000000 cubic meters of water in a region that's air it. scientists say it's an environmental sin, especially considering this was

a nature reserve. after beijing was awarded the games, the reserves borders were amended. the mountains earmarked for downhill events were simply excluded from the zone despite protests, from environmentalists. this is that he said, oh, of course, this is hugely problematic as the ski slopes and not just in a nature reserve there right in the center of it. so the subject, the highest level of protection, the olympic village is on the fringes of the reserve, but both locations are not acceptable for trade by the organizers defend their decision describing the games as sustainable. on the side she, we've taken special measures to protect the environment. we've transferred trees and other plants from the ski slopes to other areas. we were denied access to the relocation projects, but geographer, carmen de young fears,

they could have long term consequences, like erosion and landslides. we think it is wendy. i think these will be the least sustainable games of all time. the snow, the water consumption, c o 2 emissions, lack of respect for nature, reserves, erosion. there are so many aspects that are not sustainable feel, feel aspect of the niche. now, how decent beijing will become the 1st ever city to host both summer and winter games. evidently at any cost. ah. and before we go damage control in the british royal family. queen elizabeth has stripped her son, prince andrew, of his tried or his royal highness, along with his military rolls and royal patronage, is the princess facing of civil caves in the u. s over allegations that he sexually assaulted a woman when she was 70 virginia jeffrey's is suing the prince, claiming that he abused her in 2001. prince andrew's legal team has not any will

come. it won't come on the days almost during the conversation, he continues aligned to find us on twitter, either a dw news, you can follow me on twitter at brent gov tv. and remember, whatever happens between now and then, tomorrow is another day we'll see you then everybody ah, with ah, economic crisis in turkey is hitting them especially hard and raw,

one of his temples, garbage collectors. every day he hunts for recyclables to receive a mere pittance in return. and now the recycling operation has been outsourced to large corporations at the worst possible time with disastrous consequences for emma focus on europe. next on dw, the battle against cove it the only clue variant is putting healthcare systems around the world to the test. vaccination campaigns are accelerating, while restrictions are intensifying once again. but are these measures enough to stop the spread of omicron, fax, data, and reports? coven 19 special. in 60 minutes on d. w. o!

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