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tv   Conflict Zone - Guest Regina Ip  Deutsche Welle  January 27, 2022 4:30am-5:01am CET

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oh, magic. discover the world around you. subscribe to the w documentary on youtube. the streets of hong kong a quiet these days, the huge demonstrations of recent times long gone. the pro democracy movements have been tamed. beijing, patriots of fully in power. as one pro china politician put it, the traitors have been excluded. this week we talk for a 2nd time to regina if longtime law maker in hong kong legislative council, and head of the pro beijing new people party, hong kong re unified with china, under the kind of repressive rule,
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but tolerate no descent. you happy now with that, there's no rollback of freedom. i'll feed them so well, we'll take that under our basic level. the biggest symbols of resistance in hong kong have been the june, the 4th vigils recalling the gentleman square massacre in $1089.00. but last year, beijing, it had enough hong kong police shut down, the organizers, froze the assets and the rested. their leaders. the past is once again being buried and rewritten. what kind of future for hong kong mouth with regina it welcome to come pick zone. welcome back to conflict up. thank you for having be again tim. when we last spoke to you in june 2020, you were full of comforting assurances about the one country to systems arrangements and how it would allow hong kong to preserve it's $997.00 lifestyle.
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do you think that disqualifying opposition politicians arresting, independent journalists, closing down critical media outlets. fucking teachers, censoring school books? do you think that's preserving the pre 997 lifestyle and hong kong? actually in the 1980s when the songs hoping, talk about conserving the lifestyle he referred to continuing the racist and the dancing and racing and dancing are still going on in hong kong. and that's about it, isn't there is going on? no, no, no, no, we continue to a very lively media, very vigorous scrutiny of government performance by legislators under the new electoral arrangements. new members are falling over each other to question the government on its performance. show the same vibrant hong kong spirit as to their human rights organizations. western governments un expert,
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so see it rather differently done by the beijing and hong kong or sorry, cheese have moved aggressively to ro back right to hong kong. that's the view of human rights watch, certainly the view of all those other organizations. and that's exactly what you wanted, isn't it? hong kong re, unified hong kong, re unified with china under the kind of repressive rule, but tolerates no descent. do you happy now, with that that's extremely unfair and biased view. you know, there's no rollback or freedoms. all freedoms are well under basic law, which has incorporated the international covenant on civil and political rights on electro rights. we even allow foreign nation knows to vote. you know, and you know, vo, electro rights are subject to lose restrictions all over the world. so, our civil and political rights are alive and well, you know,
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there has been no delegation whatsoever really doesn't look like it. the, the big clamp down on political opposition began in november 2020 didn't it paging imposed a new law allowing the disqualification of so called and patrick, artic opposition. members from the legislative council you approved of that, didn't you for sitting members were kicked out with immediate effect, you know, right. to respond. it's totally unfair to describe that as a claim. don't work. so i'm central authority. that is to make a decision, requiring old people taking up public offers, including electric offers to abide by the oath to uphold the basic law and to bear a legion to the hong kong special administrative region. that's not too unreasonable to ask. that's not too much to ask. all parliament, all cost was off their legislators, public servers who taken over loyalty. i think jerry adams was not able to take up
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his sheet in westminster because he refused to take an oath of loyalty to the queen . but we're not talking about jerry adams or the british problem when talking about the legislative council in hong kong for sitting members kicked out with immediate effect. and of the hong kong bar association. put it at the time. a violation of the principles of fairness in the rule of law. let's be honest. this was a shoddy under hand move taken simply to please your bosses in beijing, wasn't it? the, the 4 members there who are disqualified in november to 20, they were already disqualified by the returning officers. when the rental let the co office because they fail to abide by their legislative oath, we are talking about form members who consistently resisted china sovereignty and did everything to oppose our integration with the nation or complying with
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positions of the basic law. the saw essentially, and to china activists, you know, they have no place in the legislature, china, china, there's a difference, isn't that you put a different spin on it. being critical of china is one thing and why, why shouldn't they object? that's what they're there to do. they can object to anything while they have not, they have objected to everything to do with china, national security, national education, high speed rail, connecting hong kong to try not they even object to, to n t a p t. then like, fun, fun thing to help people affected by the pandemic. they objected to everything. the saw just rejection. this, you know, was who has come home, call with them mindless opposition. my, you say home tang kong beijing couldn't wait to celebrate. hong kong liaison office even declared a new rule that the political rule that hong kong must be governed by patriots
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shall be firmly guarded. it said, governed by patriots. what happened to the high degree of autonomy promise to hong kong in the basic glow that you were just waving at me the moment that was what the day got trash, why the hong kong executive it, the principal that home call should be governed by patriots. was put forward from day one, you know, as soon as the one country to systems are put forward by mr. banjo, paying and on, on behalf of the chinese leadership. there is no conflict between one country to systems arrangement. and the principle of hong kong should be governed by patriots . of course, for one country, true system to be sustainable. we must be one by people who truly support the sovereignty security of our country and by the constitution and the basic law. that's a no brainer regina, if the definition of
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a page is what someone like you who just does exactly what beijing tells them to do, no opposition, no division, you just clap. when they tell you to you are being very unfair to me. i have been critical of the government on many funds and i have objected to many government projects. you know, i did not vote on mrs. lamb's favorite project to low, long, tall, you know, and a pitcher is not defined in a law. you know, all that a law requires is to uphold the basic law and to bear allegiance to the hong kong, etc. if legislators, you will work in cahoots with a u. s. and call for sanctions on hong kong, call for removal, about special trading status. how can you regard them as being loyal to a home call or supportive of the basic law ever? you have a public great, contradicted beijing about anything i've you. i think i have voice my opinions very
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candidly and very forcefully on many matter. you haven't answered my question, did you have a raise? an eyebrow about the human rights vacuum that exists on the mainland? have you ever talked about that? i don't think it is white for me to judge of those. the mainland has a different system. anyway, china also says hi, join like your partner, china, you're part of china. i don't think people we should judge without all effects before them. if people have not done for research and do not know what's really going on, they should not get on a high horse and points a finger at others. i don't believe in putting fingers. and so righteousness where you are answered my question, have you ever raised an eyebrow about the human rights vacuum that exists on the mainland? have you that's not my business to point the finger at the situation. in the meantime, you know, my business as
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a hong kong legislator is to look after the human rights situation and the welfare of my people. and one of the most important rights of hong kong people is to write the rights to adequate housing. that's priority number one for me as while community at the moment. if you want to an example regina emp, of rights being road back in hong kong look no further than last month, new style election to your legislative council, which was announced by china's parliament last march. china's parliament, not your hong kong, legislative council. out of a $153.00 candidates that were only about 12 who weren't aligned with the pro establishment or pro beijing factions. no risk of any trouble, some opposition there then is that the, the new arrangements have enable us to make room for more a leads to join the legislative council. we are actually more broadly
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representative than before. and we manage to get with all those who have hom, hong kong, through the extreme, feel buster and opposition to all everything on the government's agenda. but your chief secretary, john lee explained it and even clara terms, he said, those who had been excluded were traitors who had once the vote to fail. so always, well, the patriots are in charge the traitors in jail. the rest cowed into submission, but never mind about rights and freedoms. hong kong was stable again. that's just what you wanted, isn't it? hong kong, stable, that's an over simplification. you know, we have members in council who are, who are racing objections to a lot of government proposals. you know, we have a new council which is for our new brides and fresh ideas about governance and how to improve the livelihood of the people. and i think there is no question or flights of freedoms being robot. by the way, if i could remind you,
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our new structure was a 40 member election committee. that's an electro college and electro college arrangement. it's nothing new. it's was 1st introduced by the british and we had that after 997, you know, the democratic arrangement in the past 24 years. it's an experiment. it has not. so, hong kong people well in the sense that it has not helped to solve our livelihood, economic development problems, housing problems, it ought to be reviewed and revised. and this is what we are doing now. we talk about serving the hong kong people, hong kong public told you what they thought of your new election system by staying at home in huge numbers, despite your desperate campaign to get them out to vote, there was a record low turn out for hong kong, 30.2 percent, a huge drop from the previous legislative election 5 years ago in which 58 percent
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voted that didn't go well for you did it you, you can compare these. so do you present her no rate with the turn all ready for the previous election because we have a new electro system? yeah, one of the public doesn't like graphical constituencies happen redrawn. and new structure you see when the british push them collectively form in the final days of the governance in hong kong in the 1980. the 1st round of elections under new rules also only had 30 percent. i think 30 percent turned out. it's a very good performance very, that's one way of spinning it. i mean, why don't i look at the look my bama to turn out at the new york look at the new york mayo ro election. recently. the turn way was only 23 percent. we're not looking at new york, we're looking at how long and comparing to the the kind of buy in the public had
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for the election 5 years ago. and in any case, why bother to turn up? because out of the 90 seats in your expanded council, only 20 could be directly elected by the public companies. so the result of dictatorships always prefer was a foregone conclusion. wasn't in. you cannot call a system dictate horatio auto graduate. just because a few a members were elected by direct elections. i think direct popular elections had their problems. the problems are all over the world. people could end up electing populist politicians. ah, who won by just stirring up emotions for slogan ewing who cannot really get things done and who cannot solve governance problems. i think we are better off with our tripod tight structure was those representing the districts, some representing functional constituencies and some like an upper house in the
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parliament, repre, including elites and the diversity of representatives, including one woman representing the new churches indigenous residents. the elections with draconian regulations attached to them just in case anyone recommended returning blank balance to protest that the changes your authorities have thought up a new crime to cover that incitement of others to cost blank balance. maximum sentence 3 is in jail, one more bonfire of political right? you can't even tell me, you know, that's not just kind in jail. right? to call it or call you, you know, you can call the calling in you, in spite people to vote or not to vote to interfere with the outcome that is nothing shot or criminal, or they that sort of conduct should, should not be, you know, should not be allowed, you know, one of the chief targets to the government and beijing zango have been the
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independent journalists and hong kong. june the 17th. last year. your police were in action for the 2nd time against apple daily. the only pro democracy print newspaper in hong kong and you rated it. do you remember how many police your government sent in to the newspaper offices that day? june 17th? you remember at the, at pole daily, it's not an independent newspaper is a political platform for more realization against the government. well, that, that, you mean you remember how many, many, many public declare he is and asian of the u. s. he says that he share the common values of the of the us, and i makes him an a u. s. war on enemy ground. he said that them so. and he said he was at the, for fun of the occupy central movement. you're, you're not, you're not going to answer my question regina 500 police that's been,
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you know, relevant. a lot of evidence to call collect. you need to send a lot of 500 bodies. what did they think they were going to find that piles of sub machine guns, helicopter gunship on the roof? what would i, what would every, all police force they all they remove, computer files and documents. the police have every way to collect the of the evidence. they needed if they have reasonable doubts, that old fences had been committed. this paper has been publishing for 26 years. and finally it was a threat to national security. as your headline. but the code, the said using journalistic work to incite foreign forces to impose sanctions on the, the hong kong hong kong and china was that the best charges could come up with good news. i recently lie at mixer in, so he said that themselves, jimmy lied,
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said it himself publicly. he told c n n otto calling on very senior us officials that he shared common values with us. and he's a comma, who are the ones china? what he is regarding china as you, as, and the me ground, you know, you know, if he's not a u. s. proxy or as u. s. h a, what is he by his own admission. this is public record. he said to c n n. and he also said in tul 14, that he is at the for funds i'll be occupied central by his own admission. why shouldn't he be? why shouldn't he has opinions? if he works for you as interest, if he use has newspaper as a us papa ganga tool or platform for in site one of succession. why should we charge him? why should we charge him? the question is, from the point of view or pull taking our national security,
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why should we charge him? why should we investigate? what's wrong with that? what's wrong with it? is it been widely condemned around the world? the british government put its latest report on hong kong mainland chinese and hong colo thirties, have used the law and related institutions. and i just can, i just say this can i just say this mainland chinese and hong kong authorities have used the law and related institutions against all opposition, free press and civil society in hong kong. and you'll go on doing that until you've taught hong kong a lesson that the mainland instilled in many years ago. do, as paging says, or it will crush you, that's the lesson, isn't it? come, come, can i say not speak now please come of it. the british government has no credibility . they have been using this sort of methods to oppress po china organizations and po china activist all the time until they were prepared to withdraw and change our
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laws so that we can not use the laws against people who are end to china. and how may china's national security, the british government have no credibility whatsoever. they have done a lot of harm to hong call in the last 10 years of the rule. in hong kong, you called one country to systems, china's unification project. and it is unification, isn't it? but it's by threat, it's by detention, it's by imprisonment and laws that stifle all political and civil opposition just as it's done on the mainland. are you proud of that regina? while hong kong was brought back under the bought back to the motherland, finest ocean. with the agreement, britain. well, the sign opened, his jaw negotiation, john declarations. china said, i want to take resume exercise of sovereignty over hong kong in 1997 and britain said, i will restore hong kong to china. it was by lecture agreement for peaceful negotiation
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. and it worked well until some people exploited hong kong openness and freedom that to do things that undermine china's sovereignty. security and national interests. 100 years of the chinese communist party last year marked by bay jane all that power regina all that time. and they still can't stand any criticism why other leaders of the chinese communist party so insecure that has totally unfair. they have a lift, work, severe your extremely unfair criticisms of the chinese communist party for 24 years all the time. you know, my colleagues, my former colleagues have freedom of expression in the legislative council. some be, are free to criticize the chinese communist party. they are free to to that. what
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you said is just simply not true. not show anyone who criticize them is smeared and insulted look at paul harris, former chairman of the hong kong bar association. he said the new national security law was not consistent with the rule of law. chinese state media turned round and called him a running rat. and said he should resign you any human rights office was told to my business day after objecting to your new security law. my drug was wrong with that . that's. that's all part of a healthy page on the state of freedoms in hong kong. if you have a position on the national security law cor harris as poor harris. i mean, he should be prepared to face rebuttals. you know, it was more than rebuff. lloyd, well, it's forceful rebuttal. you know, we need to make our position clear to the bar association. you know, in fact the bar sensation should stick to the law,
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not to politics and not to spear on national security law. regina it, with all its birthday celebrations, china's trying harder than ever to cover up its brutal past. isn't it? at least 3 monuments to the 1989 gentlemen square massacre have now been removed from hong kong campuses. and police have tried to stop the june 4th candlelight vigils in victoria park mocking the killings allegedly because of covert risks in 2020 you told me you didn't think there be any difference to these commemorations after the security law came into force. when you were dead wrong, once you fed wrong, well, the statutes were removed by the decisions of the university authorities. that's what they said, that's just an it guy. nobody believed that nobody believed that. i don't think you believe it. well, i do. i think it's a, it's an autonomous decision made by the governance bodies of the universities point
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number one, as for june, 4th victuals last year. definitely. they could not be help because of covert. now this year, you know, we are in the quip of some ways, you know, and mosque gatherings must not be allowed. you know, i cannot predict what happens in, in june. but if the covert situation continues, there are legitimate health concerns on no view on june 4th, on the day of the vigil last year, the police arrested the vice chair of the organizing group for those vigils, hong kong alliance and coding off the park in september. they froze the lines, his assets, they closed its june, the 4th museum deleted its social media account and the rested, its for leaders, for inciting subversion. was all that due to covey as well that has nothing to dorothy june for victuals. that's because that organization has at
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its agenda over so when one party rule that is also in china system, of course, that's could amongst 2 subversion that would go against the national security law. now that we have national security law enforce, we have to ensure that these activities do not violate the national security laws. a symbol is that they're not coming back again. these visuals are they, they're never going to be allowed back. and just the motherland you said, but to do want whitewash embarrassing history. they're good at that on the, these rituals, if they become a tool, a political tool for ins, fighting hatred or antipathy against the motherland that will do more much more harm to hong kong than we should allow, you know, it's as simple as virginia. it's been good to have you back on complex own. thank you very much indeed. thank you for having me. okay.
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