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tv   Lou Dobbs Tonight  FOX Business  March 6, 2013 7:00pm-8:00pm EST

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gerri: starting next month the airline passengers will be able to carry small lives and some sports equipment onto planes. do you believe that should happen? we ask the question on 31 percent said yes. 68 percent said no. a knife on a plane. i don't know. finally, this guy is out of control. new york city mayor, we talk about him all the time. the process of banning soda, fat, sarah vaughn, even a formula. now he is going after earphones. reporting his launched to get young people to stop listening to music too badly on earphones because they might go death. really? is there anything that he actually likes to iraq mayor of the residents of new york, not big daddy. when his term ends at the end of the year. that's my "2 cents more" and that's it for tonight on "the willis report" to be taken for joining us. see right back here tomorrow.
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♪ lou: good evening, everybody, and thank you for joining us tonight. another big day on wall street. a modest gain on the dow, which rose more than 42 points, but the second record high close in as many days. and that this very moment, president obama is having dinner with a number of republican senators at the jefferson hotel, which is some four blocks from the white house. there are at least nine republican senators who have joined the president for dinner, and, well, at least, one would think, bipartisan discussions of budgets and tax reform commemoration and get control. another group of republican senators, however, and one democratic senator have been busy throughout the afternoon and early evening on capitol hill. joining senator rand paul and filibustering that complement -- confirmation vote on the president's choice to lead the
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cia. and that filibuster is under way at this hour. senator paul seeking to slow, if not stop the confirmation of john brennan as director of the cia. the senator wants president obama's assurance that is the administration will not support the targeted use of drones to kill american citizens on american soil. senator paul accusing the president of shredding the constitution. >> i rise today to begin to filibuster john brennan's nomination for the cia. i will speak until i can no longer speak. i will speak as long as it takes until the alarm is sounded from coast to coast. the constitution is important. your rights to trial by jury are precious. no american should be killed by at drone on american soil without first being charged with a crime, without first being found to be guilty by a court.
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lou: the senator took up four at 11:47 a.m., three minutes but -- 13 mets before noon in response to a letter from attorney-general eric holder. in that letter to holders and the administration will not rule out the possibility of those strikes against american citizens on u.s. soil. holders letter read, it is possible, i suppose, to imagine an extraordinary circumstance in which it would be necessary and appropriate under the constitution and the applicable laws of the united states for the presidents of the rise the military to use lethal force within the territory of the united states. his filibuster is, as i said, still going. now into its eighth hour. while saying repeatedly that he is only looking for the attorney-general of the president himself to clarify whether not american citizens who have not been classified as in the combatants could legally and constitutionally be targeted
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in the view of the administration. fellow republican senator among others along with democrat ron wyden all have participated in the filibuster to this point. here is senator mike lee of utah questioning the attorney general's response to senator paul's questions. >> no one can reasonably look into this and decide who the government may kill with a draw renter the government may not care what the drone. lou: senator ted crews the tax is accusing the white house of threatening an outright power grab. >> and i would suggest that any time power is irrigated in one place in the executive that liberty is threatened. lou: senator of oregon, a democrat, took the floor to show support for the effort to get the white house to answer these
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very important questions. >> i have great respect for this effort so really ask these kinds of questions, forced them to be debated on the floor. lou: and while the nomination is the focus of the filibuster, it was attorney-general eric : who was left to answer questions of the senate judiciary committee from the idea of killing american citizens with drones flying above american soil. fox news chief intelligence correspondent has our report. >> i thought i was saying no. >> reporter: that simple answer had to be forced out of attorney-general eric holder. >> as the constitution allow a u.s. citizen on u.s. soil here does not pose an imminent threat to be killed by the u.s. government? >> this is a hypothetical. i would not think that in that situation the use of a drone or lethal force would be appropriate because it --
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>> i have to tell you, i find it remarkable that in that hypothetical, which is deliberately very simple you are unable to give a simple 1-word, 1-syllable answer, no. >> reporter: not clear his response to the senate judiciary committee is a reversal of the march 4th letter to republican senate seat of senator rand paul where he writes, it is possible to imagine an extraordinary circumstance in which it would be necessary and appropriate under the constitution and applicable laws of the united states for the presidents authorize the military to use lethal force within the territory of the united states. >> in your letter to senator paul this week you have open the possibility of using lethal force against american citizens as extraordinary circumstances and u.s. soil. can you agree, there is the scenario that we will be appropriate use of armed drug u.s. oral? striking an american citizen? >> what i said a letter was that the government has no intention to carry out any drone strikes
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in the united states. it is hard for me to imagine a situation in which that would occur. >> reporter: also said lawmakers could not -- >> the constitutional authority to pass a law preventing the president's ability to use lethal force against american citizens on u.s. soil. >> and not sure that such a bill would be constitutional. >> the demonstration provided a handful of the 11 government memos that justify the expenditure on campaign staff. the only on a restricted basis to 15 senators and the intelligence committee. republicans and democrats won all the drop -- drug policy memos and less secrecy from the obama administration. >> i will be bringing back to the attention of the appropriate people within the administration >> i would strongly urge you to make that is quickly. >> asked whether he indeed reversed himself inside the u.s. and to clarify his claims that
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the president also saw the need for more transparency. there was no immediate response. the provided more documents on benghazi in georgia tech's overseas, is seen as confirmation to run this day was a foregone conclusion, but the testimony today effectively threw gasoline on the drumfire. lou: thank you very much. fox news chief intelligence correspondent. the house of representatives today passed a resolution that would fund the government through the end of this fiscal year. the legislation leaving obamacare fully intact despite a challenge from some conservatives who saw it as a perfect opportunity to defund the president's health care law. our next guest has become a conservative hero after he took issue with president obama's policies and i think it is fair to say, is politics with last month's national prayer breakfast. givebacks, his is now the hottest name in national politics. well, after, perhaps, president obama and on a given day,
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perhaps, a vice president biden. that beaches speaker at the political action conference. delighted to have him join us now. he's the director of pediatric neurosurgery at johns hopkins. great to have you here. >> to be back. lou: let's start with this 55 what is happening right now in washington d.c. first on the drones, you know, senator paul's filibuster, the participation of the number of leading republican senators and another said it. >> very troubling that we cannot get a simple answer that no, we are not putting these things in the air to spy on our citizens or to kill them. why is that a hard thing to say? lou: this is that it is difficult for this attorney-general to speak with direct language the politics of the hall. as we are watching what was transpiring, the 300, more than 300 now as of the last report in
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news over the united states of america. this is not an academic or as senator paul said. >> quite significantly. lou: 10,000 of the course of the next ten years. these issues have direct impact on who we are and how we live and who we become. >> you know, what is really dramatic here is, we are already come as a people, afraid to express ourselves. in a political correctness has made us sheep to look around and say, can i say this? now, if you hit on these drones with missiles of their code is going to happen to us? lou: that would be more. that would be more than a chilling effect in some instances. as a matter of fact we have had a number of our viewers say he had best be careful. and i don't know to what degree that is fully in earnest concern, but it is expressed. let's turn also to obamacare. this was to be a moment in which
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conservatives gloriously defunded obamacare. the continuing resolution has moved now from the house without some much as a mention of obamacare. what is your reaction? >> well, my reaction is we are all going to see what is coming up here in the next year. and the protests are going to be louder, from the people, which is where it has to come from, as they begin to understand what is going on. right now they don't understand. and people purposefully are not explaining things to them. the people who try to explain to them are thought of as alarmists and people who are racist or some other ridiculous thing. but it is all going to come out and a wash. it is going to become very clear very soon. lou: the iraqi people right now vote in november. clearly the president won. even as a result, now the focus is turned almost instantly to
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2014 and the president's strategy, it is said, it is reported, to take on the republican party and crush it in the midterm election. >> to try to make them look bad. you know, with a sequester, you know, no white house. if anybody looks bad, it makes him look bad. think about all these kids that have had their plans to go to the white house for two years now. all of a sudden they cannot go. the people here give the tours are volunteers. they're not even paid. it is all political. lou: political. mean-spirited as well. the idea that $250 million, secretary of state would deliver unto the egyptians rather than keep the white house tour opened for thousands upon thousands of americans who want the opportunity to see the people's house. this is done at the very least, unfortunate. >> i think most people would not
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even got 20 years ago, have been able to imagine this scenario. but we have gradually moved into a, sort of like the frog and the saucepan. you graduate and turn up the heat and they understand what is going on. all of a sudden they're cut. lou: one of the places where the heat is being turned up, as you say, his approval rating. the latest writers polled, 43%. right now as you entire talking here. the president is speaking with nine senators, nine republican senators, talking about immigration, gun control, budgets, taxes, tax reform. the grand bargain. can you imagine anything that would make it more nervous when it comes to political process than nine senators who have not been elected to the in any way sitting down with the president after republican leaders, not all, has said they're going to go to regular order. everything will be in the open and the clear for the american people to watch. >> the one thing that has been clear for the last few years is
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nothing is open and public and apparent as it was supposed to beat. anytime you have these closed-door issues going on, i'd already situation where it turned up dead. if it was going to be get the total use seat. lou: and it is intriguing to me that the republican adopting some of the strategies open and transparent. the response i get from people, i go into the airport, the train station. >> people are coming up to me. thank you. thank you. thank you for speaking up, sending gobs of money. flying around. it's ridiculous. but it is because people want to
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hear truth. they want to hear common sense. we don't seem to be getting any of that. people are not as simple as some people think there. lou: uni have agreed with everything you have said since the day and might use some time ago until you said the idea of you running for office is ridiculous. thank you for being here. >> always a pleasure. lou: president obama is, as i said, having dinner at this hour with nine republican senators. washington is jefferson hotel. among those present are the senators. johnson, mccain, gramm, quarter. they say they will be cut talking about the budget, taxes tomentum of the reform, immigration reform command-and-control. meeting the president will have next week with both the democratic and republican caucuses in both the senate and the house. education in america, college tuition skyrocketing.
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student aid plunging. is there a college tuition bubble about to burst? that is tonight's "chalk talk." another day, another record. the dow jones industrials does it again. wall street veteran tells us whether the bulls will still run next. ♪ with t spark miles card from capital one, bjorn earns unlimited rewas for his small business take theseags to room 12 please. [ garth ] bjors small busiss earns double miles on every purchase every day. produce delivery. [ bjorn ] just put it on my spark card. [ garth why settle for less? ahh, oh! [ garth ] great businesses deserve limited reward here's your wake up call. [ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. choose double miles or 2% cash back on every purchase every day. what's in your wallet? [ crows ] now where's the snooze button?
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lou: well, home prices are rising. hiring in the construction industry. it looks like we may have a foundation for of fall lawn recovery in our housing market. wall street veteran is here. some insight for us in just a moment. on wall street, more good news. the dowwjones industrials hitting another record high.
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up 42 points. a new high to tell you about tonight. 14,296. standard and poor's slightly higher on the day. highest close since helena 2007. the nasdaq, however, losing a couple of points. thank you, apple. volume on the big board almost three and a half billion, picking a bit, advancing issues, doubling those decliners. the commodities and futures markets showing no reaction whatsoever, despite some of the pandavas, gurus, and savant's you might have listened to talking about the death of hugo chavez and what might happen to the oil market. deloitte -- gold unchanged. have bigger than expected increases in crude oil inventories. the bond market today. prices fell. the treasury's 10-year yield of one. my next guest says their is a disconnect between wall street and main street is betting courage and economic reports. joining us with his outlook for the markets.
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he is chief investment strategist. good to have you here. >> thanks. lou: to record zero. is an impressive. as we can all just take a deep breath. relax now. watch the good times roll. >> not sure about relaxing. of complacency in the market. we can keep the vicks index we should not at the same time the words is because we're heading headlines a new all-time highs and necessary meet the rally in stocks is over. lou: where you think this market is taking as premier? we are -- these lofty heights? are we going to see the bill over the course of the next year? >> i think you can see that. we will probably overdue for a correction in the equity market. might be something in the order of 3-5%. i don't think that would necessarily be life threatening. lou: let me calculate this carefully. just about 9% gain in two months. we have to give back 3-5%
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dividend and we can move on. i would say that is a great trait. >> i think it would be, especially if you look at over the course of the remainder of the year, one in which we think economic growth improves in the second half of 2013, and i think that is a for our climate for corporate profits to continue to grow and as a consequence will it for equity prices that finish higher, yet even from today's levels and better from what could be a corrective phase which i think would be opportunistic for investors were sidelined to come into. lou: and you think everyone should -- well, not everyone, but most investors should take any sell-off as an opportunity to get into this palm market that is not -- now when its fourth year it. >> i think for investors are waiting for the all is clear sign to come on, they will be waiting a long time. i don't think that there is anything out there necessarily at the moment that it seems obvious relative to why we would see some type of decay in the equity markets has said it would be warranted for sitting in 0% yield in cash for the next above years. lou: fourth year.
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technically i am correct. but as of march 10th, a few days from now, we will be in the fifth year of this bull market. and you think it can run for another year. >> well, you look at the fundamentals. you have price-to-earnings ratio valuations. not fair. not to cheat. certainly not exceeding. economic underpinnings of their starting to show some signs of improvement. reality for capital spending revival. now's the recovery to continue and consumption driven by a modest level of job growth coupled with increasing confidence from the consumers that continue to drive spending, which as we all know is 70% of economic activity. if you put those three things together that suggests that corporate profits and companies that are in great shape with over one and a half trillion dollars in cash can continue to show the signs of life. as a result of the share price will reflect that accordingly. lou: so we're not going to get his fiscal policy that will open up the coffers of corporate
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america and have them get involved in business investments what is going to draw unemployment, if anything? very quickly. rerun of time. this contest you quickly about jobs because no one else seems to want to talk about it. >> your not going to get fiscal operation, a full stop giving intervention i think businesses ultimately have to invest. what is going to create jobs is the inevitable, global growth demanding investment and spending and hiring by businesses in order to continue to participate, and that produces profits for the shareholders think. lou: we thank you for being here. i hope you're right. up next, we will be talking about senator rand paul's a historic old-fashioned filibuster, trying to slow the president's cia director confirmation. the senators promised to speak until he can't. he still can because he is still talking at this very moment. and as the cost of public education rises, higher education, the availability of government funding is slowing.
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financial aid for students is dropping. the college tuition bubble that no one talks about, but i will next on the "chalk talk." ♪
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lou: well, this is for tonight. we're going to upset a lot of college and university administrators. a whole bunch of folks who spend a lot of money building one of the biggest one talked-about and in some quarters undiscovered bubbles in this economy. we owe remember the technology and internet bubble burst in 2000, the housing bubble burst in 2007 and date. there is another bubble that is growing unchecked. we have seen college tuition rates rising at more than twice their rate of inflation for the past three decades. student loan defaults paying.
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if you have kids in school and you have hocked yourself to support their educational attainment, you're going to be really upset with what i'm going to tell you here tonight, but we have to come to grips with the reality in this country because we are supporting institutions that are now being led mindlessly in a direction that is, well, amongst other things in addition to creating massive debt for our young people, another source of massive debt and creating debt for their parents, families. we are also destroying the institutions that are buying at this -- we are working and defaults skyrocketing during this economic crisis. prospects for college graduates work jobs that tumble to truly troubling levels. not enough people are talking about the commensurately up paris and the young students.
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the higher education bubble, and it is a bubble, no matter what, anybody tells you, headed for a must -- bust. a record increase in tuition, and it is continuing what has been a decade-long trend. comes as state aids for public universities. it falls by 9%. it is a record decline in in some case state tuition has risen by such a staggering amount that the cost of very similar or more to what public university students are paying to what students are paying a private college. here is one example. in state undergraduate students receiving financial aid that is the university, they pay, are you ready for this, $21,000.
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students of financial aid attended harvard university's. they pay on average $12,000. there are a lot of factors that go into that disparity. but various, an example, what we're talking about, and the problems are only getting worse. 12 percent. you-7 that has almost servile says 2004. it is approaching, are you ready, $1 trillion, more than the total amount of credit card debt in the united states. almost 40 million people, 40 million people have student loans. the average debt cut $25,000.
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what are they supporting? the institutions that are effectively out of control in what they're charging for their services. this is made possible thanks to the federal government supporting with almost without restraint rising prices and public education. half of all americans under 25 with a college degree, are you ready, either unemployed or are working in a job for which there are overqualified. so, if i may, i would like to leave you with this provocative factor to consider. a 2-year community college degree costs about $60,200. a bachelor's degree from of 4-year private university goes for about $158,000.
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and according to a georgetown study, nearly 30 percent of americans with associate's degrees earned community colleges, two-year schools, making more than those who have earned a bachelor's degree. this is a bubble worth worrying about. we are all known for our friends. no better friends than those in hollywood. a georgia community with a novel way to help families protect themselves. it is an idea whose time has come. senator rand paul stands up to filibuster the nomination and confirmation of john brennan to head the cia. here next. ♪
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lifelock protection risk free for a full 60 days. use promo code: gethelp. plus get this document shredder free-- but only if you act right now. call the number on your screen now! lou: i want to update you on the filibuster. the picture you're looking at of senator rand paul is a live
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picture as he filibuster's the nomination and confirmation process of john brennan to lead the cia. concerned about the president's authority to kill american citizens with drones on american soil. >> i voted for the first three nominees by the president. this is not about partisanship. i have allowed the president to pick his political appointees to, but i will not sit quietly and let him shred the constitution. i cannot sit at my desk quietly and let the president's say that he will kill americans on american soil who are not actively attacking a country. lou: joining us now, steven hayes, senior writer for the legal standard, fox is contributor. is he right? is the president's been in effect, shredding the constitution? >> it is probably strong language, but rand paul has made these arguments consistently and effectively over the course of the day and really of the course of the past several weeks as he
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has pressed the demonstration on this question of drones and particularly the ability of the president to kill somebody coming to kill an american citizen on u.s. soil. lou: attorney-general eric holder has had so many opportunities to simply answer the man, other senators, directly, unequivocally, convincingly, and is, obviously, deliberately choosing not to. why you suppose that is? >> it is very odd. i mean, you know, he could, as he sort of did in fits and starts in the exchange's this morning with takers and patrick leahy and others say, well, this is such a hypothetical. you know, but no, we're not going to do that. he has not chosen to do that. he did it this morning and sort of a roundabout way after five or six attempts to not answer the question, he basically said, no, or not going to do this. but it is a serious question. i think the fact that they want to now give the president a
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preserve for the president to stand of executive authority given everything that this president nd eric holder have said in the past is a truly stunning turnabout for barack obama. lou: i am struck by the insistence on the part of the various republicans. they're going to have an accounting. they're going to have answers. senator ipo g, mccain, senator paul. starting another one answers on benghazi. those answers have not been forthcoming. and when this filibuster in this, as it surely will, the burning confirmation will move ahead images like that of senator kerry, and there will be confirmation because the republican party will, at some point, find debris to step aside in the process. why even bother with the theatrics? >> yes. i think they have held that they could pull some of these documents out of the administration to get some answers, particularly on this
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question of talking points on the kinds of warnings that were provided to the white house and the others in the days before the benghazi attacks. and they, as you say, they have met with very limited success. the first-round of documents were so heavily redacted that they did not answer any questions paris seriously. we now have an idea of where the ad is to these talking points as susan rice used or made, we don't know who made them or why they were made. lou: trying to blame press secretaries for curring allowed. that is a little too convenient and does not sound much like, forgive me, al gore. it is not sound like even an inconvenient truth but an outright fabrication. western to that dinner that is going on right now with the president of these nine republican senators. this concerns me as much as anything that is happening in washington d.c. not one of them is elected to represent the republicans in the united states senate. they are sitting there as a
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bipartisan effort, apparently to with this president on most issues. what in the world is going on after the republican leaders have said they will be in regular order, hearings. the president wants to move for there will be legislation. there will be an examination and the full view of the public. then we get this going on. does that trouble you? >> look. i mean, i think republicans are much wiser to conduct their business out in the open and have these debates out in the open. and then the president cannot say, as he has when he talked about budgets and talked about the entitlement reforms that he could embrace. the white house and the president's plan backed proposals that he made supposedly in private in july of 200011 on reforming medicare, and these other big issues. the american public did not see it. the president wants to have those debates, have been in public. republicans are much smarter to do that in public and to force
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the debate. think the american public, there was another poll out today, abc news in "washington post" suggesting the american public is with the republicans on these questions of spending. get to do it out in the open. lou: sequestered to a remarkably. as always to good to have you with this. if you want to join the discussion go to to get the links are facebook page, e-mail me. tweet me. coming up here tonight, next, hollywood liberal elites. a lot of words to say the same thing. there are liberal and elite. they came out in droves to mourn their favorite dictators. well, former president joined in with them. it will have that story for you next. ♪ ll and melissa. like many, they built their financial house on stocks, bonds, and insurance... and then saw it blow away with the first winds of economic change. when mary lost her husband, she invested in real estate.
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we replaced people with a machine.r, what? customers didn't like it. so why do banks do it? hello? hello?! if your bank doesn't let you talk to a real person 24/7, you need an ally. hello? ally bank. your money needs an ally. ♪ lou: stunning hypocrisy in of all places california. earlier this month the california teachers' pension
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system that would let it be known there were going to ivest from gun manufacturers. well, according to the website they did pull their money of the private equity firm that owns bushmaster firearms, but they still own nearly $2 million worth of smith and wesson stock, an interesting choice. maybe because the investment is paying off so handsomely. smith and wesson reported this week that its earnings more than tripled in the most recent quarter and also raised its outlook for gun sales. sorry mr. president. they don't seem to be too concerned about you. over the past five years, stock has almost doubled. and the teachers decided they would stick with that particular gun manufacturer for a while. hollywood liberals joining in morning venezuelan desperate hugo chavez death, issuing a statement say he hopes venezuelans to recall his positive legacies.
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sean penn filling a hollywood reporter he was broken up. i lost a friend that i was blessed have. i mourn the great hero. and a documentary filmmaker doug to twitter. what better format to reminisce about his meeting in 2009. he said, we spoke for over an hour. he was happy to finally meet someone that bush hated more than him. it's okay. you can laugh. none of them apparently remember him for the dictator that he was . and rice, chairman of the foreign relations committee did. he had a rather interesting final obituary comment. he said the, good riddance. up next, president obama receiving -- he will be very upset.
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for pinocchio's from the washington post. again. pinocchio's flying. they discovered their conscience. my god, i'm proud of those liberals. the "a-team" takes it up. they're with us next. stay with us. ♪
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♪ lou: the "a-team" tonight. author, columnist, fox news contributor, radio talk-show host, fox news contributor, also the author of a book. in paperback now. again is entirely appropriate. democratic consultant. good to have you all year. town never should everyone be that the president is meeting with nine republican senators over some sort of bipartisan neil talking about the big
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issues of our days. the president still insistent upon the grand bargain. are these people, first of all, are the worthy of a grand bargain? ready is really the people of one would turn to for a grand bargain? >> this is nothing more than a public-relations check by the president. angry that anyone may have to blame him for the present set of circumstances and making him look bipartisan with people who won't make decisions about anything so will they undermined debate. >> there is nothing in this man's background, a pattern of behavior for history to suggest any bipartisanship whatsoever faugh. he has done photo op after photo op, and he wants a bipartisan failure. this is the phrase that has been a "wall street journal" and is right on. he knows the economy is going south. it was to be able to blame on republicans. by bringing in an what he is trying to do is take a look among trying to work with the other side. all this goes out he has the punching bag. lou: it has already gone south. now we have had two straight days of records in the dow jones
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industrials as a result of a sequester. the president has just been slapped in the face by the american people lose support sequester. they don't despise sequester, nor did they feared. absolute abject failure on the part of this president. perhaps the first of his now two terms as president. >> i think he was really expect here representative -- expecting republicans to take the blame for this. and these issues are pulled it is their public is that a blind alleys public opinion. this issue it did not happen. he is stuck on trying to figure out where his team and his marketing when wrong and now he needs to up 1/4 this gestured as a really do care about partisanship. it is a pr stunt, but it is a way for him to say if this does not work out it is still their fault. lou: he will do that no matter what. we will be back with "a-team" to explain the further audacity that occurs in spurts here in washington d.c. we'll be right back. stay with us. ♪
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lou: we are back with the "a-team." just in deep mourning for hugo chavez. all kinds of characters saying it will be terrible for the energy market and they completely don't understand our own domestic energy market. hollywood and these creeps hailing hugo chavez. >> the irony is hugo chavez hails media censorship. they would not be able to speak out if they lived under hugo chavez. it is something widespread. >> the culture as well. we are not talking about worldwide, we're talking about leftists. sean penn, roseanne barr.
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when ronald reagan died, jimmy carter initially didn't want to put out a statement on his death. neil: the "wall street journal" " lou: the "wall street journal" put out the remarks. >> and puts out a gushing statement. >> he didn't want to censor newspapers..3 if he did all these things he did attack religious institutions for people he didn't agree with, he closed down boundaries, didn't allow discussion, and these guys living in this extraordinary country where freedom reigns. a great man, what are they nuts? lou: think of sean penn, michael moore, just such despicable.


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