>> i bet you thought the fireworks were over. this day after, a scandal that is not taking the fifth. still crackling. more like exploding. welcome, everybody. i hope you had a good for sevejuly party because i don't think our american ambassador in paris did he is using the occasion to rip the good ambassador in our country a new one to spite to say it not been a sister that in the name of our friendship, we ow each other on the steve. and the fren are not the only ones.
and berlin protestors market -- marching in defense but it might explain why european regulators finding google a big problem over the plans to go over data for a new tube into e-mail for a one-stop shop for advertisers. you think we have problems just imagine all the gadgets that nurngngng king in right now is not good because they're only getting more fiery at us over there now to former ambassador bolton why a this is now a global political and idc get a spreading ambassador? >> i think we are all shocked to learn that there
is hypocrisy. but united states shares an incredible amount of intelligence with all the european governments. they share some with us, but by and large they are the net beneficiaries. so when they take a cheap shot like that they should knetter. he is jerk. i think that we need to take these protests in europe with the big grain of salt. this is all for the home crowd. it is not really sincere. neil: well, there is a french political official lecturing anyone on honesty is one thing. the bigger point about the fallout on our financial credibility. what to you think of that? whether this registers an impact in that sense. >> i don't think that it will, and i don't think it will greatly affect. they're mad about how they collect data and how long
they're keeping data, but he put not your own free will. we used to mak notes of how people got purchases together. they're dng the exact same thing. they are the best inbreed. i don't think it will affect them. neil: here is where i would respectfully differ. i can do that because you are on remote. here is where i disagree. it has been a slowdown. and they have a lot of problems just making inroads, european officials. they're all dumping. this does not help matters. whether it is just a fire not. >> that is a fair point. a very valid point. does slow them down. this is about what the ambassador said, smoke and mirrors. surprise surprise. america just happens to get caught. has been going on since the revolutionary war. a lot of problems.
they're looking to blame someone , and you better than the evil empire and take the attention off of their own problems at home. neil: how do we deal with them no really very nicely dealing with us? gamine, this deal, each side is going to respective crowds. >> you know, the europeans are excellent at taking a big political principle and using it to hide its sheer crass commercialism. so it would not surprise me if they had some economic motivation. i think it will fade away. i don't think there will be any political ramifications. if there are, our answer is to stop cooperating and intelligence sharing were certainly cut back with any country there really tries to go after arrest or to go after a company that has participated in a legitimate u.s. espionage activity. neil: when you say that, does it mean that we cannot afford any more surprised? it is sort of like to 50, thers gambling going on.
what if we get more detail or they give more detail at this was going on and far more widespread, not just the european union offes in washington at the united nations, but maybe in all of these, you know, country capitals. >> this depends obviously on what he sll has. people and the intelligence community are concerned that he did get away with a lot of vy sensitive affirmation. as it comes out, it could still be damaging, but in terms of fundamental damage, political relationships with the europeans, i don't think so. they don't have a clue what their intelligence services are doing. neil: what do you think as far as the hot technology stocks. you mentioned google, but i am wondering about those that do have a lot of americans, the folks across the globe using the , whether there is any skittishness, even if it is short-lived and does impact the bottom line or does affect how much they can sell their
advertisers because there are fewer people -- let's say, using the services as sort of a silent protest. >> i don't think it will be a big enough affects a move the bottom line. $50 billion in cash. they are a monster company. remember, it is a matter of free will. that is the only way you will have to be able to work on the internet. the internet has become so much of our lives that people will notorgoes completely and they will still -- when you press a funny internet is stays there and exists forever. it is not like somebody is coming into your house and stealing information from you. neil: here is where i draw another distinction. we will leave it here with you. this idea that in europe these devices are even more sacred than they are year, particularly amon young people who treasure them. almost like a part of their bodies. so they take very, very versely to this spirit i am wondering if it boomerangs on their own government.
>> it is possible, but scott mcnealy, when he was ceo of sun microsystems 15 years ago said, and quote, there is no privacy and the internet. get usedo it. the europeans are going to have to grow up. neil: are you just making friends left and right. ambassador, good to see. >> happy fourth. neil: and here is how clever some of these spies are. some of them dressed up as postal workers. it's true. >> your mailman, bond, james bond. why his driver's seat is not o the left side of the vehicle but the right like in england so that he can spy on us. all this time but that it was just to make easr for him to get access to my mailbox. little did i know, it's part of the clever plan to read everything in my mailbox. ♪ friday night, buddy.
you are gonna need a wingman. and my cash back eps the party going. but my airline miles take it wodwide. [ male announcer ] it shouldn't be this hard. with creditcards.com, it's easy to srch ndreds of cards and apply online. creditcards.co neil: you know, i don't think dole ever elected my mailman the same way again examine every piece of it. me and millions of others.
more than 160 billion on blubs and packages were photographed from the u.s. postal service. nothing illegal because this tracking progr only collected images of those letters and packages. nine are actually open which apparently would be illegal. even though it is still pretty weird. why is it collecting this stuff and all? e postal service says that it is -- has been going on for years and is only meant to alert authorities to the images of unusual or suspicious mailings. in so doing apparently it is also passing along the names and addresses of the folks in the mailings, not mention the return addresses of the folks in sending the mai no wonder our buddy charles is paint. >> first of all, 160 billion. neil: that came out.
they might do more if there was so busy photograph thing. >> that is the good news. the bad news, if you are on the internet, facebook, twitter, you put all yourself out there, you're the one doing it. you expect privacy. you might get me on that. when i start to search things, that information is also being acquired and catalogued. that bothers me. okay. i'll do it the old-fashion way, mail your letter. that is being photograpd. if i am getting this right, law enforcement can request, making a request of the post office. cors 30 days.
phe. in other words, once you get this stuff the next logical leap -- >> to use it. first of all, what could be suspicious 1 billion times. you talk about loose parameters. it was on this rectangular thing that was white ended having done it. that means that -- so if those are your parameters for beginning this, starting it, what will be your parameters for dubbing distillate further? just a little bit deeper. it will be pretty loose. you combine this with the idea of 100 million telephone -- phone calls. neil: what else are we going to hear? don't you worry about that? what other little delopments will be wind of? >> i hope we get them all and i hope we do sometng about it. if you werehe kind of person that says i don't care, i have nothing to hide, you are nuts. you're giving away your freedoms this is absolutely nut i hope people taken seriously.
the aspect of it that we can have fun with, but the bottom line is this is scary stuff. we see what direction this country is going in. it feels like east gerny. neil: that is the risk. doing anything high-tech. you are going stale male. >> they start snatching letters in bottles of the ocean and we know we're sunk. neil: i am wondering if there would go after my victory farms package. there are suspicious, i grant you, but is just food. anyway, thank you. great job, as always. the good news is bought -- jobs are booming. why are small business as may be because they don't see it or maybe because they don't count. let them record in you decide. a comeback in the works?
♪ neil: nearly 30,000 more jobs than we expected. close to 200,000 in all, and it is the economy last month. continuing to train steady. that is been going on for many months. but if things are so good, why are some small business guys convinced it is not at all good? david macarthur and caterer extraordinaire say that if this is the recovery firing up then they might as well just pack up. you are fed up. what is going on? >> well, what is scary to me, those numbers, i was just saying here in studio, the unemployment numbers are dropping. it is june. a lot of people going back to work for summer jobs. the one that ishe kicker for me is the manufacturing number dropping. those are the long-term jobs. i am cautious because i don't see people coming in the door doing a dance or telling me that
things are really good. i think will go by car. it is is not happening. neil: and there was a big surge, as we will get into later. but having seen a of that, improving business is better than no business. >> it is, of people just don't have the money to spend. neil: what do you see? when they have the big spread what to do? >> they're looking to cut corners. they want to get people together, but they are getting the midway package. the dj, food, more to it. a very basic party which is good, still doing busins, but not ne what it was years ago. neil: so what you are hearing, when you see all of this news, things are kicking. people are freely spending their money or more aggressively.
>> i don't see that. people are spending money. i see job growth. it is fictitious numbers, summertime numbers. come september there will drop right back down. i don't see what the president promised. ad nauseam creating jobs. if we have more jobs it would have morepending in adults see thatappening. the local stuff is great. that doesn't help us. that is enough to dollars to pay for college. neil: you think about it, to you are not raising demanded spending. you are certainly not frivolous, but you are not a top priority expense. the first to go with the first to be downsized or the first to be reined in if times are tough. does that still -- is that still the case? >> yes. i am the guy after the gas station and after the supermarket. when you wake up bus saturday
morning and go, a doughnut would taste good, maybe you will go to the bakery. how much money? oh, no. gas is still $3.60 to my credit card is maxed out. we will have waffles. that is still the economy. i need to move you closer to me. neil: anythin like that? >> certainly. we are tryin it all to stay alive. online, wholesale, you name it. >> after the bakery maybe there3 will be a party. neil: when you hear a pickup in discretionary spending, that is what a recovery usually is all about. that discretionary spending comes back. you are not seeing that? >> and they're watching every penny to make sure they're not overspending, overstaffing. but as far as people spending extra money, theyre getting by the minimum.
neill gas prices are dropping. you could argue that because of that it is taking some of the competitive spending pressure off. that money eventually finds its way to you. a couple of weeks of day-by-day. at keeps up, maybe your ship comes in. >> i hope so, but we are a long way off a $3.60 per gallon, down to about $3.20 depending upon where you are. that is a long way from when the economy was good. >> a big difference. neil: a very good point. i know you guys are here. that is a big, big problem. gasoline is to be high. >> and destination place. that is just another expense. one more expensive for them, one less thing that we can get. neil: a lot of people say white is a baker and interest in seeing whether the keystone
pipeline is finished. neil: and stand. you get those energy pris down there is more money freed up. >> that is 100 percent right. and that is money that stays local. not only local, stays in this country. goes back into the community. when my business increases i need more equipment, more pants, i need to upgrade the floors because people with a mouth. that is all of the reciprocal stuff that gets the money that builds the economy from being that and a half, 2%, will we have seen growth rate. there is no growth. that is sucked up and expense to being able to expand and put people back to work. it has been years since we have been able to do anything. neil: i wonder. you guys are vulnerable. they then try to take advantage of your problems. in your case, they expand their own business.
>> they could easily cross you. they have the buying power we would never have. the ability of the better locations, a lot more capitol, the ability to borrow money better. neil: and an environment like this. >> imakes it tougher. they can do more than we can. we can never keep up. home depot, all the hardware and paint stores. neil: you make a better wter fear -- abettor grinder. >> but everyone has a budget. it does not matter. i have a lot of people say, the difference between you and the local box door, when i go there, oh, it was dead. when i get to you, it was fantastic. dollars will regulate between good and fantastic. neil: a good job. if you are perilously putting your mortgage ahead of what you read. shame on you. i cannot lead you to the
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he smells a rat, not only because of the timing after the midterm electio but yet another financial underpinning of the health care law that has been taken away only leaving more questns as to how they pay for this going forward because they have to find a way. the congressman joins me on the phone right now. always a pleesure. your fears are well placed. they have to roll this thing out and they are. >> i smell a big fat rats. not just a little rant. you know, in 2010 the democrats in congress pushed the enforcement of the employee mandate back to 2014 conveniently until after the president's election. now under the cover of independence day holidays they're pushing it back again. this time out of fear that the disastrous consequences and the impact on the midterm elections.
this decision was not made in the best interest of the american people, i can assure you. neil: let me just say this. just to protect incumbents like mary landreau, marc prior and taken. neil: that is the fear. i am going to give them the benefit of the doubt. but here is what i don't give up pass on because i am discovering that would be a crucial means by which you would get coverage and pay for it. now i am hearing a lot of young people from is was intended, they are not signing up. low-wage workers cannot afford it. the ultimate, the uninsured for whom we aended this entire health care system of ours, they dot want in on it. so now i'm thinking, how the heck do we pay for this? >> well, that kid easily be the
next leg. juneau's. further and further confusion. this employer mandate to me is much more simple to enforce and enact. pretty straightforward if you don't provide health insurance, -- minimal coverage health insurance. you pay the fine. but much more complicated and arcane is setting up the exchange. a spending in all of this stuff. and the fines of your people who ter a 26, kicked out of their parents' basement, how in the world of they going to afford to pay these premiums? this is so disingenuous to say that it was the employers begging them to the lead. they had three years to put this into effect. now there will delayed another year conveniently to get past these midterm elections. i think it reeks of hypocrisy.
ne: something is not right. always a pleasure. >> my pleasure to be with you. thank you. neil: former top congressional budget expert and former u.s. mptroller on this latest. whatou think? >> this is pure politics and t no question about that. the rulemaking has run late. they slowed down so that it did not overlap the presidential election and they're now running behind. turns out this was a complicated rule. not just whether you have insurance are not. for the individual, the individual and his family. it is a mess. but the fallout of polics is something that has bad consequences for insurance, more employers will be temptedo drop it now while there's no penalty. still has bad consequences for the labor market, a big incentive to have part-time workers which only changes for one year. we have seen employers move in that direction already.
neil: we saw evidence of that. over 330,000 more part-time workers i wou imagine that continues. what do you see happening? >> you know i am a political independent and to me this is more a political decision and operational decision. the easiest part is his mandate. much more complicated issue of how you put the exchanges, determine who is eligible for what amount ofubsidy. quite frankly, i think this is the beginning of what is likely to be as series of delays because the government may not be ready said be able to operation allies this. i will say, there is an opportity that is just now emerging. i have been talking about for months. the opportunity for state and local governments to put their pre medicaid eligible for early rerees into these changes as a way to a cost shift and get rid of a lot of their unfunded obligations and cost shift them
on to others. chicago well, detroit well, and i expect you will seethers doing in the future. neil: if that happens it would not be the first time a highly praised government initiative ends up costing a lot more than ople thought. go back to medicare, 1966, a $65 million program, went up to a trillion. president bush prescription drug benefit that has gone into hunnreds of billions over what it was supposed to be. i am just wondering how much over this is to be. i can see over the years. trillions. >> i am deeply worried. we have hrd people talk about a loss of five or 10 llion in fines that we expect to be paid. that is nothing. if they put -- start dumping their employees into these exchanges, everyone up to 400% of the poverty level is eligible for subsidies. the work we did early on this vessel looks to be ballpark
right, you could have as many as 35 million more americans in these exchanges, the single largest source of health insurance coverage in the united states. trillions of dollars over budget, andrew simply cannot afford it. there is only one raceere, being too expensive. it will ner come in under budget. neil: normally you are an expert on these numbers more than nine. this tree that i have seen is that if they cannot get the money going to these present cost savings of the end up doing is raising people's taxes. maybe the top one or two, three, four, 5% of find out that won't cut it and any to go lower on the food chain. that is my fear. >> there is no question in my mind that this will cost more than expected. the chief actuary of medicare estimates that it will cost $10 trillion more. in fairness, most of the time that the government has gotten into the health care business including with regard to
medicare initially and 65 it has cost a lot more than projected. with a prescription drug it actually costs less than projected because of the competition element. on the other hand, it costs more than w can afford. that is one of the things you have to consider as well. il: gun shop. >> he was right about the drug program. that big problem is expanding the programs. there will be a day in the future when they realize they're not getting subsidies. they have the same income and congress will fix that problem. neil: they will fix it by going to a single payer, albeit government system, which might have been the machiavellian intent all along. >> the only reason for the employer mandate was to make in -- make sure employers to collectetheir cost. >> keep in mind, don't tax you. don't tax me. tax the baby underneath. a huge intergenerational front
♪ neil: you know, it is good to be caned. when it comes online retailers, amazon is undisputed. that puts walmart and a whole host of shellshocked book wholesalers. as others staggered trying to build a competitive boy and his son is taking advantage of the fact that none of them come remotely close. quietly hiking prices on books simply because it can. let's go. first on whether amazon is saying those big price rates are
gone. what is going on? >> well, they did a good job of forcing out the competition, just like we saw in the past with railroads and steel and oil and to the victor go the spoils. daddy not blame them. in the good news is monopolies can never last for a bit -- never last foreverr someone will come and dislike someone came in with ibm and verizon and what not. meone will seize this opportunity. neil: i think what a lot of small independent publisherare coming out there are cut out of this. they would be better for customers to initially thought that they were getting a price break. now they're simply not. >> the contrast for consumers between people who own the stock and those that buy the book. he all the stock they raise prices.
good news for the stock price. if you are the consumer, the average person watching, they may have to buy a used book. that can have exactly the opposite effect. the bottom line, they are perceived as visible in a china shop. consumers you that as an ounce versus them. one company who is on their side. if this goes further than they want t make other choices to save money which could hurt them in the long run. neil: our books would get cheaper. i want to move on. when you are selling 200 million phones, and gravel as this sounds apparently analysts expected s so many other cool gadgets to put up even bigger out of this galaxy numbers. imagine that. did an apple have to deal with the same high expectation? history repeating itsel
>> yeah. but i think it is -- we are seeing an overall general theme. i think people are tired. i hate to say it. being connected. that is basical what you use your phone four. one uses it just for receiving and making telephone calls. they use it to connect to twitter and the intert and facebook. facebook usage has declined. people don't stay on as long. i think that the age of the smart phone, people are just fatigued. neil: with the think? is that wh is going on? >> i think he makes a good point. one of the other signs, consumer products are what have you done for me lately. the higtechnology company is only as good as what they have done recently. bottom line -- things. maybe some forecaster -- 200 million of anything. my gosh.
>> it's a big deal. one of the things we have seen his people and not just buying a consumer item but the passion of the company, especially our young your demographic. they're wantg to see what the company stands for. no wonder brand loyal. the company stands for what they want to buy into their likely to spend their dollars there and not just what the company has done lately. neil: well put. this could explain. a lot of android funds are vulnerable to getting hacked. the securities signature. apparently it can be easily broken. that is not good. that is really not kid. >> it is not good at all. keep in mind, i go to buy a phone and there are a couple of things that i expect. they will have my back and do all that they can to protect me from these people.
we all know that there are people who want to hack into our things, steal our identity. willingly not protect you, that is where the trust is broken. a fragile economy, by a phone are due something elsewhere. this company loses mon. >> makes some great points. i want to come in from a different angle. what is it nowadays that we have? people cannot hack into it. neil: that is exactly right. >> right. exactly. hearing headlines now almost, the iphone, the android. i think going back to what we talked about, it creates a great opportunity. i think we will see a big growth area in companies -- the whole cyber security area is really going to take off as everyone is now connected to everything.
♪ neil: you know, it is all downhill after you turn 50, not that i would know. anyway, finding out the hard way. tantillo is in trouble. end to read early ticket sales from the lone ranger, i think we're looking at this year's version. moviegoers are clearly not going gangbusters for the movie remake has everything going for it on paper, just not in theater seats.
pirates of the caribbean palace. disney behind it. what to make of it and whether he is out of his death. >> it is kind of extraordinary. real looking at the most monumental flop of the summer. filled with 100 million, $200 million bckbusters. said to have cost upwards of a quarter of a billion to make. 300 million when you add in all the marketing. neil: why some mh? >> special a factor not to be vastly more expensive than blowing stuff up for real. i've done it will be a way to save money. they come in the opening month. a time when it a sequel did $34 million on the same evening, roughly the same number of theaters, and it is not an a decade old franchise. neil: a lot of people, like my kids, they have no idea who the
lawn ranger was. isn't it sad? especially how much money they threw into marketing because you have seen ads for a long time. i guess you just can't count on it. this was a decision green lighted by over age 50 movie studio executives who remember the lawn ranger from their childhood. i remember watching the black-and-white reruns. today you have all politically @%rrect native american indian thing. you have to worry about that. they made him the basic start. the more knowing that i'd rather than the polite male oppressor cowboy. neil: too much going on. but high expectations or where the stars or the up-front price just don't cut it. >> here is the thing. this could be a flop along the lines of john carter. a $200 million charge. it could end up with that here,
but you don't in a summer like this, all of the brand new product and what turns out to be a brand new character and go up against sequels. that bill tin fan base. and cell waiting for the sequel. kind of stole the thunder of a family movie. i wonder who is going to vacuum know, there is speculation that maybe they can manage to pull up. got off to a really bad start. ran fourth. now it has done so well that it is looking more. neil: a lot of theseunds depend on how well they are received a broad. doing very well abroad. >> the love the idea of blowing up the white house. neil: that's what makes it it. did you think that that is what this movie is? >> unfortunately when you go overseas they don't have all of that heritage of the lawn ranger. turns out that the film has to be good. percent positive rating, very low. this film runs two hours and 28
minutes. so withrailers and transports, you talk about the three and half hour time shelf the you will never get back. neil: thank you very much. good seeing you. well, the high level pow wow. finally the president is on top of this fine mess. well, not quite. another message thousands of miles from year. i am lying and spying. if i'm not spying, when it comes , the president is not wo
friday night, buddy. you are gonna need a wingman. and my cash back keeps the party going. but my airline miles take it worldwide. [ male announcer ] it shouldn't be this hard. with creditcards.com, it's easy to search hundreds of cards and apply online. creditcards.com. ♪ neil: well, this stinks. cairo. the president clearly more worried about the lead of the pharaoh's than the land. he was quick to meet with top advisers but has yet to call a solar power with the same be down all of these. sasha burns.
we are told that the president is on top of these vious matters. we don't have to call these big meetings. what do you make? >> i think this is a classic case of political misdirection. as we know, the president has been under immense. he is taken this opportunity to appear presidential. as soons the situation remand pontificates about what should be done abroad. this is on holiday. the president appears hard-working. he calls forhe direct and transparent democratic government. the problem is this appears very disingenuous. the lack of transparency is something that many would rather the president address. neil: democratic strategist. >> absolutely. 100 percent.
the nsa surveillance program is not a scandal. it is an important discussion. it is a policy controversy or dispute, but there is no misconduct. this is a law that was passed by republicans, enacted by president bush. neil: you don't think it is a lawhat is now on steroids? >> no different. it has just been carried out. neil: way beyond what i was supposed to be? republicans and democrats, this was not the original inception. >> when it was past and realized, this was part of it. there is judicial oversight. there is no misconduct. it is an important discussion. i think we all want privacy. neil: here is the issue. we have now gotten word that the post office itself is takg images of carmel, not opening them as yet. right. i did not know i got that much from a tree rms but apparently
i do. my point is they are examining that. i am wondering for the next surprise at weather that does not warrant at least a meeting has to howar w take it. >> you know, from a small-business owner perspective it seems like we have taken it too far. accompanies that have been strong arm and into supposedly supply information which we thought was private to the government. we would have given the government the powers, but i don't believe the american public knew how much we actually have given away. i think that is what we will find ourselves innd it will continue to get wwrse. let's get the picture, that beautiful picture of a obama with all of his top advisers. the fourth of july. i would have liked to have seen a picture of him meeting with those same people for the nsa scandal, irs, jobs and american. neil: the battle, but they did not issue a picture. so what are your concerns? >> my concern is, why is the
president addressing what is happening on the international front and not what is happening here in the domestic enemy? neil: this is a pretty big deal. upending of the democratically elected government. he should be. >> he should be able to balance and be able to meet on more than one issue. it should not be picking and choosing and saying this is more important. neil: you don't think i roll is more important? we pay billions of dollars to this government, this democratically elected government and allies might down the drain. >> they are both very important and certainly should be meeting, but they need to be meeting about more thann one issue. very different issues. the president needs to be able to be on more than one issue. we should not have been waiting for weeks and months. he should have gotten out in front of ts immediately.
>> i'm widening in out. neil: a lot of people. this administration cannot be trusted. beginning to stick. >> you spend all of yourime being political. your presidential and deal with the l * july 3rd egyptian cuda talk. neil: you don't think that there is anything awkward. >> i think we have had a conversation about privacy. there is no misconduct. >> i think we can give the benefit of a doubt that he was they're dealing with this international issue which does matter to america, not just the islamic americans, but americans in general. take a look at the irs scandal. what is she still have her job? a paid vacation basically because it is impossible. neil: so worrisome nartive.
>> impossible to fire a federal employe you. neil: i don't know. this doesn't look right. >> it really does not pass the smell test in the sense that the president has been quiet about issues that the public has been clamoring for, someort of conversation. of a sudden we have this international calamity in the president is quick to jump in front of that and san the president of the united states, acting presidential, your meeting with my security members it really does not bode well that he would just negate all of these domestic issues and then get out in front of this. neil: does it? >> it cld if he sat around and had meetings about it like you walk intt, lori could be presidential. the brilliance of the creation a narrative. neil: being presidential on wars that you were not a fan of, what is the difference? >> i did not say that i think that the nsa surveillance program is right. i said that is a discussion
about the law,ot the president >> i will take this up with my special guest on monday. i will not be my famous henry kissinger impression. she has we celebrate our nation's birthday i want to share with you my favorite interviews so far this year, right here, right now. >> from fox business headquarters in new york city it is the tom sullivan show. here is your host, tom sullivan. thanks for joining us. the top of this that, government service started as a naval aviator than as a congressman, he ran the office of economic opportunity, he was ambassador to nato, white house chief of staff, served twice as defense secretary. if there isomeone more experienced in holdinoffice in washington i'm not sure who that would be. here's my interview with the