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tv   Bulls and Bears  FOX Business  July 21, 2013 1:00am-1:31am EDT

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that is our show, thank you for coming. we will see you next week. [applause] [cheers] they bring you food, the greatest thing ver. thanks for joining us. we'll be back tomorrow. sound the alarm on jobs. the unemployment rate rising in 28 states last month. now, new signs it's about to get worse. 74% of small businesses say they are planning to either slash hours, reduce hiring or actually fire workers because of the health care law. more proof the law delivers a negative prognosis for a jobs recovery. hi, everyone. i'm brenda buttner, this is "bulls and bears." gary b. smith, trac burns, tracy and welcome to everybody. okay, john, is the health care law making the job market sick? >> yes, absolutely. what the job market wants is
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certainty. we've got no certainty with this law. they are talking about trying to fix the law. you're talkingbout fixing something that hasn't even been implemented. why did you pass something broke to bin with? that's the problem we have. 34 of 50 states have opted out of the state exchanges, 24 of 50 states have said they don't want the medicaid expansion because they simply can't afford it, and small businesses around the country are saying if we get stuck with an extra $5,000 per employee, this eats into our profit margins bad enough we can't afford it, and that is the problem that you have in small businesses right now, america, which creates most of the jobs. >> that's right, that's the point. they are the job creators, the engine of job creation. what doest say that small businesses are not optimistic about their hiring plan or they are firing workers? >> well, first of all, small businesses in the u.s. chamber of commerce crowing about more regulations and more cops, that's kind of like -- that's kind of like the rooster crowing about the sunrise. i mean, that's sort of a default
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setting, but if you look at the study closely, what's fascinating to me is 50% of the businesses are saying, look, we're actually not going to make any changes due to obama care, and if you look particularly at small businesses that are right near that 50-employee mark where you actually have to -- you're mandated to offer the care, the health insurance, 76% of them said we're not actually changing our hiring plans at all. we're just going to go and ride right through that 50-employee mark and live wh obama care, but the fact it's an uncomfortable fact and they are going to live with it. >> tracy, i don't think that's true at all. i talk to them every day. they are not changing their plans because they are not going to do anything. they are in like stagnant mode. you make the cost of something more expensive, corporations don't use it, so what we're doing here is making the cost of employment moreexpensive. corporations are not going to do it. small businesses are not hiring, and what they are hiring we saw in the last jobs report part-timers, a ton of part-time employees out there, and they are not turning themselves into
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full-time employees because that's not what businesses want. they don't want to deal with obama care. >> gary b., do you need a survey to tell you that hiring will go down with obama care? what tracy was basically talking about is a tax, isn't it? >> exactly. tracy makes a great point. the loc of which that obama care tax, if you will, will not affect hiring is baffling to me. look, when the gernment wants you to drink less alcohol, what do they do? they put a tax on it. when they want you to drive the highways slower, what do they do, put a tax on it via speeding tickets. when they want you to use less gasoline, what do they do? they put a tax on it, and all that works, and that's fine. so now they are putting a taxes on businesses and saying, oh, wait a second, it's not going to affect behavior, it's baffling to me the logic there. it has to affect behavior. in that sim survey 70% of those small busisses via the chamber of commerce says it was going to negatively impact their hiring. i think it's going to be 100%.
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>> okay. jos, i'll get to you in minute but i want to let stefan respond. >> gary b., love you this. think bigger. decades ago when the government said we want workplaces to guarantee the safety of their workers i'm su bses and business people like us sat around tables like this and complained. they want us to guarantee the safety of our workers, what a pain in the butt. this is just reality. >> but that -- but that affects the company. >> it did affect companies. lots of factories complained when we said, look, you need to -- >> and it costhem jobs! >> and that's just the cost moving on and creating a society that's fair for everybody. >> okay. >> jump n. >> gary b. just broht up an interesting point. the government tax cigarettes, use less of it and reverse tax health care. the company can give you a $20,000 health care plan and it's a tax-free bonus and we
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consume more health care. that's one of the problems we had in health care before obama care. unrtunately, it's not totally goingway so it's not like it's a great system. we overconsume your health care, by the same logic with the negative tation of the plan. as far as hiring, there could be a benefit here where we go to part-time workers. what's so wrong about a flexible workforce withveryone without a full-time job with hours and benefits? >> what? >> if we had more part-time workers won't we have a lower unemployment rate if they kick people off full-time so they can avoid obama care, they will have to make up for those hours by hiring more temps. >> a battle between tracy and gary b. i'm going to let tracy take this one. >> oh, my god. clearly you don't have kids at home. if i didn't have a full-time job with benefits i don't tnk i can sleep at night. this is not what we want. we want people with full-time work. want people to have job security and go out and spend money in the economy. what if i'm going to do if a
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part-timer? i don't know what's next. you might lay me off. >> are you a union boss? >> look, if obama care was working, they wouldn't have pushed off the employer mandate. they wouldn't be talking about pushing off the individual mandate. they en realize that it's a mess. >> jonas, you asked her if she were a union boss. basically the argument is they can't have thatany benefits. >> what you want in a workforce is not having to burden an employer with healthare pensions, 401(k)s, job security and amount of hours a ek. you want a flexible workforce that can you fire at will, the opposite of europe and that's how you get your unemployment down. >> john, jump inhere. >> look, i've heard a couple of things that are baffling. comparing this to henry frick and the carnegie steel mills and working guys to 12 hours a day, comparing that to offering free pizza from this administration that's completely apples and oranges and saying it's good you cut people from 40 hour back to 28ecause it gives a flexible workforce, no, it increases poverty in the united states is
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what it does. this thing is broken. was passed broken and the only way ty are selling it right now is saying we'll force these companies, because they make too much money apparently, to give rebates to indidual americans. look, it's more free pizza. i guess we're going after apple andgoogle next and forcing them give back their profits, too. this is insane. >> gary b., what's this going to do to the economy? >> i think it has to hurt the economy, just like every other -- you know, stefan talked about environmental regulations and osha and that was aax. look, it might have made our world better. i'm not going to argue that, but did it hurt the economy? yes, it hurt the economy. the are costs absorbed by compies, by industries, by individuals that they otherwise would not have to occur. we're not talking jonas' pnt where health care was better or worse. we're talking about the marginal cost to the employers. the marginal cost to the employers in most cases goes up. that is a tax, plain and
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and that has to affect the company's hiring. >> what if the company pays the fine which is less than they were payinfor the health insurance in the first placend kick them on to a state exchange? couldn't that lower the cost. >> that's why i said in most cases, yes. >> if there were state exchanges which is part of the problem, isn't it, john? >> ye, 34 of 50 states have opted out of the state exchanges. aetna, united health are getting out of places like california because they simply can't make any money and this lie about the fact that you'll keep your insurance, not going to happen. >> brenda. >> go ahead. >> i think we have to pnt out we just had news this week that new york and a lot of other states are discovering health care premiums will go down thanks to these exchanges. >> new york is a complete anomaly in that. new york is a complete anomaly in that. look at california, it's up 150%. >> that's got to be the last word, guys. thank you. coming up, first it was phone records and e-mails. now worries the government is watching every financial transaction you make. that's at the bottom ofhe
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hour, but up here first, remember this? >> we refuse t to throw in the towel and do nothing. we refused toet detroit go bankrupt. >> the white house refused to let detroit go bankrupt then.
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oh! blue! i touched the ball before it went out, coach. come on, alex, the ref did not call that! it's the championship game! i touched, it's their ball. don't foul them when they inbound. team! alex! good call. keep it right here on the fox channel for all your news, fair and balanced. detroit is busted. motown now the largest u.s. city er to file for bankruptcy, and already some are calling for a
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federal ilout instead. gary. says no way, no how, huh? >> exactly, brenda. i'm not anti-detroit. i used to live right outside detroit. i think it's a great city which still has great potential, but you have to remember, brenda, this is a city that in the '60s had the highest per capita income in the country. it was living high on the hog, and it deserved it. it was powering the country's industry for the better part of our -- the last 100 years or so, but ey lived high on the og, and they -- and they are paying the price now. they increased the pensions. they hired this, you know, public workforce that they found incapable of firing, so now they are ying their due. it's like the child that eats just too much candy. you don't reward it. that's what the government would be doing. saying, okay, you know, your bad behavior, it's okay, we'll give you money, which by the way the united states does not have. >> we've bailed out lots of people, right? bailedut private companies that didn't turn out so bad.
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should we bail out detroit? >> well, gary's analysis is really srp actually. he's right. the big player here is not -- not the bondholders who should not be bailed out. it's the pensioners, the city of detroit has something like $12 billion unfundedpensions. they shouldn't be bailed out unless the federal government could come in and say, guess what? we're gointo give you a little bit of a bailout, a partial bailout, but in exchange we really want you guys to come to the negotiating table. we can't force you guys to give up your pensions but we can make this easy, partially fund that $12 billion and in exchange shift this over to a 401(k) and take a haircut. it has to happen because it would be unconstitutional to bankrupt them and get the pensioners off the hook. that will not rk in michigan. it's against the constitution. >> tracy, what do you think of that idea? >> i think, you know what, we blame 10, 20 years of unions controlling labor, liticians
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making just rotten decisions basically ever since the '60s and '70s. it's unfair to even think we should give them a dime. there should be no backstop here. they did this, and we knew this was coming. i mean, this is just honestly as long as i have been eporting, i've been hearing that detroit was going down. it was tim >> jos, should taxpayers foot the bill here? >> yes, but not in the way that you're thinking. first of all, iused to live on the outskirts of detroit. that's the problem. everybody lives on the outskirts and no tax base in it, and that's where the bailout is called for, not the bondholders, i wouldn't say the pensions or all the creditors. they will have to take a haircup. however, the federal government let this city collapse and does not provide security. people don't live there because it's dangerous. they have the highest murder rate for like 20 years in america. we provide money to the mexican border to make it safefrom the drug world violence, to many countries abroad. this is our own city, and the federal government needs to make it safe so you can le in the cheap houses that are there now and start a business there. you can't do that if it's -- if
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it's a borderline militarized zone, d that's the bailout that they have alwayneeded for a long time, not make the bondholders better. that's notgoing to fix this problem where gary b. and myself won't live there. >> john layfield, he makes a goodpoint. we bail out lots of countries, lots of foreign aid. what about our own city? >> yeah, we do. look, we're giving up $1.5 billion to egypt after they had a military overthrow a democratical elected leader. our president was down in africa promising $7 billion for some type of cmunication infrastructure. these are our fellow americans. we spend tens of billions of dollars building cntries in the middle east that hate us. look, i'm not for federal bailouts, but thin thing stephane makes that's right is these guys went to work every day and was promised something and won't get it. the auto bailout was a pension of unions and pensions and i'm not for a bailout on that. why arewe spending so much
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money bailing out our own ken try and not considering bailing out detroit? it's hypocrisy. >> gary b., last word. >> jonas makes a very good point but the question is, a, do we have the number and, b, what prevents another city from raising its hand? cleveland has parts of city that's unlivable, so does pittsburgh and every metropolitan arerea. boy, we'd be better off and safer if we could develop that part of our city if we had, y know, the national guard in there patrolng, because we don't have the money. i think that's the proverbial slippery slope. >> okay. all right. that's the last word. thanks, guys. so, from matrimony to watch your money. more people are whipping out that checkbook without checking in with their spouse first. is that right or wrong?
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if you don't like them, take them back. >> okay. i don't like them. >> don't get use it. >> do you ask your spouse before making a purchase? if t, you're not alone. a recent survey showing more thanalf of all married couples do not ask their spouse before buying something and stephane, you say tat's a bad financial decision. that doesn't happen in your house. >> it's a terrible financial decision. one of the best ways to get your finances under controls clear these purchases with your spouse. for example, this weekend i was supposed to go to leavenworth, washington for a really cool rock climbing class, it was going to cost $300. called my wife and told me about
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the plan. guess who is spding the day with his buddies on fox news and going to the movies with his doubter? >> jbl, i bet you would have been at the rock climbing. do you ask meredith for specific purchases? >> absolutely none of her business if i want to buy a supercharger for my huge 4 byck 4 in texas and i don't know why women need 400 pairs of shoes or boots but she doesn't need to tell me when she's buying a new pair of shoes. ignorant is bliss, and i am dumb and very happy. >> jonas, it's no guarantee if you do talk that you're going to make a good decision, the two of you. >> what's the presumption that one of the sides of the relationship is like the real thrifty smart person. people marry the same type - they are going to make the same dumb decision. it's not like that's going to solve your financial problems because your spouse think it's a good idea to buy a snow beal with financing. the bottom line is you have a budget, however you do that,
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doesn't really matter what you're buying as long as you stayithin a financially feasible budget. you don't need permission to stay within your budget. stay within your budget so this is a false sense, my wife said it's okay so it's got to be okay. >> gary b., do you ask your wife when you want to buy that tennis racket or -- >> i think it depends on a couple of things. i think it depends on not to go all dr. phil and everything, but i think it depends on the dynamics. i think it depends on the dynamics of the relationship, you know. there is some trust there. look, my wife and i have been together for over 25 years. she's earned the right to go and buy whatever she wants whenever she wants because i trust her, but i also trust her, if it was a big purchase, say a car or something or a very, very expensive piece of jewelry, she would come and ask me, so i think for the major things, you have to get to the point it's relationship first, you get to the period of ust and then you trust that the other person would say something.
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>> and for a pickup truck would she have to askyou? okay. tracy, what do you think? >> so i sit here in a different spot because i don't have to answer to anyone, that is one of the perks of having to pay a divorce attorney lots of money but that being said there should be a conversation when you're going into it i think because, you know, maybe one side doesn't realize that's a dance recital bill is due and you're out spending money on new tires f the car, so there has to be some sort of communication, but if you both work and you're out there making money, i think you can do what you want. >> like congress, up spending to meet what your wife spends. >> if you ask your spouse and they want to add somhi to e mix so they can let you buy and you buy, i gets worse. stay within your budget. >> i'm with you, tracy. kind of nice not having to ask anybody, tt'one of the perks of divorce. all right. thanks, guys.
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talk about a back-to-school bummer. more families planning on cutting back, and that may be a big bummer for you, even if you don't have kids in school.
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e average text takes your eyes off the road for nearly five seconds. [tires screeching] stop the texts. stop the wrecks. visit us at predictions, and gary b., you're up. >> brenda, you know, we talked earlier, detroit is struggling but gm is not. they are doing great. i think the stock is up 40% over the next 12 months. >> jonas, bull or bear? >> bear. >> all right.
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stephane, your prediction. >> i mentioned despicable me. i want to see a movie in 3-d on imax. i think that stock is extraordinary. the technology is very good. it's expensive stock but i see it up 45% in a year. >> john, bull or bear? >> love imax, i think the stock is tms pensive. bear. >>kay. and what do you like? >> the migration to mobile away from pcs hurt google and facebook, buy mobile. verizon up 20% in a year. >> stephane, bull or bear? >> it's a good premise. i don'tike this stock very much. >> a bear. jonas, your prediction? >> operation prism is a go again. the government is re-tapping my phone for a few more weeks and months. therefore, smale nail is the safe way to go, especially if you use invisible ink,, an oxymoron. >> gary, bull orbear? >> my jonas impression, bear. >> okay. >> tracy, your prediction. >> survey recently taken says that people plan to spend less on back-to-school shopping this
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year. that's not a good sign for the economy. that is basically the bulk of retail sales. >> oh, my god, i just spent $400 for my kids' freshman yearbooks. >> no. >> "cavuto on business" xt. forget about the nation's capital going after walmart, this fight could be going national. hello, everyone. i'm charles payne in for neal cavuto and all eyes on the d.c. mayor who can kill the massive minimum wage hike onig box retailers, six others joining them to fight it as activists look to take this fight nationwide, but will that just have jobs taking a dive? to our guests, gary .? >> let's hope this d.c. mayor gets it right and vetoes this stupidity. look, walmart, one of the great business models


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