tv MONEY With Melissa Francis FOX Business October 24, 2013 5:00pm-6:01pm EDT
david: the number one thing to watch tomorrow will be the final reading of october consumer sentiment. economists expect the final reading to be 75. liz: "money" with melissa francis is next. we'll go eat our doughnuts. david: we'll see you tomorrow. >> i'm dennis kneale in for melissa francis and here's what is money tonight. the i.t. company behind the whole obamacare exchange fiasco was fired from a tech project in ontario for its incompetence. that epic fail, is now known as the billion dollar boondoggle to our neighbors in the north. after that, same firm was fired from another project, building a health care registration network, yet this is the very outfit our government hired with your tax dollars. we have the details, you won't hear them anywhere else. plus a big boost to crowd funders today. can companies can use websites to raise money for stock offerings. how much will this change the game? we have exclusive interview of film funding sight, indy go-go.
"who made money today", this guy may not be around to spend it but music to the ears of his heirs. find out what we are talking about. even when they say it ain't it is always about money >> speaking about unexpected traffic, miss campbell. there are thousands of websites that carry traffic. that is a lame excuse. amazon and ebay don't crash the week before christmas and pro flowers doesn't crash on valentine's day. dennis: cringe-worthy, awkward moments as lawmakers get to the bottom of the obama rollout. they were met with excuses fingerpointing and maybe a dash of accountability.
scarily in the hot seat, cgi federal. the company was handed $54 million to implement the federal health care exchange before bringing its incompetence stateside, cgi had a track record of burning up taxpayer money in canada. so why on earth did the president choose this company to handle the health care exchange? joining us now to figure it all out, we have adrian of "the toronto star." trusted sec ceo david contend i d thank to both of you for being with us. adrian, let's start with you because you covered this company in your neck of the woods. how bad is it and what was the fallout? >> what is actually incredible in your introduction you mentioned american taxpayers are on the hook for $54 million. i would suggest you guys got off quite lightly as far as money goes. when it came to our federal gun registry here in canada, the former fedliberal federal government hired cgi for the long gun registry in canada. it was complete disaster. it cost taxpayers nearly
$2.7 billion when all was said and done. cgi's contract was eventually canceled by the conservative government that came into power in 2007. we tried to save a little bit of money but it wasn't the only screw-up that cgi had here in the province of ontario. we had a e-health which costs taxpayers again over a billion dollars. implemented by the liberal government in ontario. and another contract canceled by cgi, approximately $46 million to implement the diabetes registry. but they were three years behind and weeks and weeks and weeks behind. dennis: okay. >> so they canceled it. all it would have taken frankly a quick google search by army of staff the obamacare administration has, probably would have found out maybe this is not the best company to go with. dennis: nice opening, adrian. tell us, david, why did we go ahead and hire these guys when it was findable they did so badly? >> that was a major mistake.
they had a track record of bad issues in the past. government procurement process is outdated. they have people trying to purchase these different, you know, endeavors like the website with healthcare.gov. this one specifically was train wreck from the start. if you look at the track record of the company, how they have been able to develop it, this should have been known well ahead of time prior to the selection process, that this wasn't going to be a good idea. you only want to get the best people you possibly can, especially for something as large as big this is. this is going to be one of the largest central areas and repositories for u.s. citizen data. you probably want to get it right the first time around. dennis: i'm thinking you do. because you need more people to sign up to pump money in the system to pay out medical bills that will accrue when you expand coverage to 15 million people who never had it before. >> right. dennis: adrian, does the firm have political ties to canada or the u.s. to allow it to continue to get business when its work record is pretty shabby?
>> well, that is a good question, actually. i'm certainly aware north of the border in my neck of the wood in toronto and canada they had given donations to the liberal government, liberal party at the time and to, you know, various organizations. specifically the canadian association of chiefs of police who were very much supportive of the long gun registry for basically, the long and short of it. long gun registry in canada turned out to be disaster and fortunately has been canceled, ostensibly making farmers and rap customers, people who don't break the law if they don't register. last time i check, criminals don't register. in another province in canada, new brunswick they were hired to do additional costs for implementation of another e-health program, electronic health records. there were some concerns by the auditor there there was some conflict of interest with some contracts. one contract ballooned from $4 million up to nearly
$45 million. long and short of it is this, the american taxpayers want accountability for what has happened here. clearly they didn't get that today in the hearings. i found them to be quite belligerent and disrespectful, and not saying sorry. dennis: okay. >> there i will will be more to come. a lot of questions should have been answered prior to this company being hired. dennis: focus the camera forward. you're more of a tech guy who gets this. we heard the president say, by golly they're doing a tech surge to fix it. i followed tech for over 20 years, and customer disasters like this you don't fix it by throwing more people at the problem, do you? >> no. i mean if you look at how websites are designed, they need to be foundation alley built from solid architecture and programing perspective from the very early stages because what happens is, when you actually put something out there on the internet, it is physically out there, everybody has to reach it, to start to make significant coding changes and rehauling the entire application is really significant endeavor. just throwing money, people, at it is a big deal. dennis: looks good, but doesn't
really work. we'll have to rap. david, one last question, the government decided they will extend the filing deadline by six weeks, that ought to be enough. this will not be solved in six weeks, is it? >> no way. when you saw the site it had major amount of issues and will continue to prop gate end user experience and what they have to do to fix the website. there is no way in heck it will be six weeks. six months to a year to address the issues with this it is overly complex and it's a train wreck. dennis: maybe the democrats should have let republicans get their one year delay. thanks for being with us, adrian and david. nice job, guys. >> appreciate it so much. dennis: next on "money," we'll talk about story stocks, high-flyers where the story is far better than the actual earnings outlook. are they really worth it? my next guest says tesla is worth hundreds of dollars a share. i think he is high on story euphoria. plus you think the big banks are being pummeled right now? well, senator elizabeth warren
>> dennis: tesla hiting a bump in the road amid reports that the automaker might have troubleurod bank of america analysts say the stock is overvalued and seting a price target of $45 a share. it was 173 today. in the past year tesla's stock soared from $27 almost up to 200 bucks a share but is it just living on love? which have coal wilcox of long board asset management. thanks for being with us, coal. do you like tesla? rose another 5% today. at $173. yahoo! finance can't even find a pe multiple, it is so out of whack. >> we put our report out april 15th when the stock was 35. saying it was going to 200. i think we got to 198 something. we're completely out of the stock as of today and
reallocated our capital to ideas we think have better upside going forward. dennis: why did you reallocate today, i'm sorry, coal? why did you sell out today? don't you think it will go higher? what about all the love? >> it definitely has become a story stock. if you look at our report, it is exactly a stock that becomes a story stock. you want to be in the way up but that is not where we belong now. elon didn't feel the fundamentals of business warranted where the stock is at today. it's a dangerous trade to be in where you're at. dennis: the problem with that, you, is that, if we, netflix is another example, right? back in july, netflix risen from 70 bucks up to 250. they're so far overvalued, where they promptly went to almost 400. are you leaving money on the table, coal, getting out too early? >> i mean it is possible, right? i think there are a lot of other ideas in the world. we put out a report last week about microsoft i think there's a lot more upside in other ideas and story stocks can be very
dangerous. hey, we're in a bull market. not saying things can't go higher. i'm saying for us i look for better trades in other places. >> we'll jump to microsoft in a moment. one more question on tesla. i was looking at their earnings. they sell, 10,000, 20,000 cars a year and in america where we do 16 million cars a year. they do earn 30 or $40 million. but they earned $120 million so far this year. just selling california state energy credits to let other carmakers pollute more. that is three times as much money they made selling cars. does that bother you at all? >> no. i think the way you have to look at tesla going forward, as they come out and have next generation vehicles they definitely will become a dominant major consumer global brand and it will take multiple years and it will take a while for the physical reality of them producing the cars to catch up to what the valuation is. the stock is definitely way ahead where they're going in the future.
dennis: okay, if they keep going up you will not be going along for that ride. let's talk about microsoft of. it is kind of a reverse of a story stock. it gets no love at all as it produces billions upon billions of dollars in profit for the past 10 years, what do you say? >> absolutely. microsoft is very underloved story and perception from the marketplace relative to what is going on at the business is completely differ. i mean it is apple an consumer devices are very sexy and enterprise, plumbing, microsoft is a company that runs the plumbing of global business, 750 million office users around the world. this is a very core part what goes on in the enterprise world. enterprise is not a sexy story relative to ipads and gadgets for consumer. >> let's go to one more story stock. amazon, you can't hold these nice down. they want to consume everything in the universe yet they're skimpy on profits. that stock seems to keep going up. >> i mean another play where bezos invested in innovation.
they have innovate ad lot of things. it is a huge, capital expenditures they have in investing those things have always been since beginning of time have been very large. today they're the number one cloud computing platform definitely priced into the stock going forward. there may be things with respect to where microsoft is going and dominating them and leapfrogging them from number one or two position going forward. amazon is weak on retained earnings and heavy on reinvesting that stuff into innovation an capital expenditures. dennis: if you bought the stock and ride it up and sold it, bought it again, rode it up you're just fine. thanks for being with us tonight, coal. >> thank you. dennis: from the u.s. to every corner of the globe, if the globe could have a corner, money is flying around the world today. first to russia. rosneft, the world's largest oil producer has struck a deal to supply 100 million tons of crude oil to china 10 years. when you start weighing it
instead of barrels, what does that mean? russia's prime minister says the agreement is testimony that the two countries, quote, reach ad higher and brand new level of cooperation. i'm very happy for them. the deal said to be worth up to $85 billion over all those years and up to 30% of the shipments will be prepaid. over to china where the world's biggest retailer, walmart, making a big move. the company will open 110 stores in china from 2014 to just 2016. 110 in two years, part of an effort to expand business there and raise profitability in a slowing retail sector. in this in addition to 30 facilities walmart already opened in china this year. landing in germany, automaker daimler said net profit jumped in the third quarter helped by lower taxes and rising sales at the mercedes-benz unit. daimler trying to hard to narrow the gap between it and rivals in the luxury car market as bmw and
volkswagen audi brand have surpassed mercedes-benz sales and profits in recent years. coming up on "money," what is elizabeth warren's big beef with the banks? forget jpmorgan's billion dollar fine. she wants even more! former sec chairman harvey pitt is here with reaction. and big news on icahn the icon. he has his sights set on apple and has a whole flue website to make sure you know about it. what is his next move to help you make money? don't go away. we'll be right back. it's not the "juggle a bunch of rotating categories" card. it's not the "sign up for rewards each quarter" card. it's the no-games, no-messing-'round, no-earning-limit-having, do-i-look-like-i'm-joking, turbo-boosting, heavyweight-champion- of-the-world cash back card. this is the quicksilver cash back card from capital one. unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere, every damn day. now, tell me, what's in your wallet?
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scheme -- bernie madoff. jpmorgan was madoff's private bank for 20 years but is the government grasping at straws with this? we have former sec chairman harvey pitt and wallace. thanks for being with us. harvey, start with you, appreciate you being here tonight. gosh, i'm wondering why the feds would have to go after jpmorgan when the sec hat clear wanings about bernie madoff around they failed to catch bernie madoff and it is their job to do it. is there a way to come up with a fine for the sec? >> i don't think you will come up with a fine for the sec. i do think what we're seeing with jpmorgan is starting to take on a lot of the attributes of what in professional football they call piling on. i think, i think there's way too much bashing of jpmorgan at this point in time.
dennis: right. wallace, i think you will disagree. we talked about this before. come on, wallace, at some point, like a bunch of piranha gnawing away at a big dead carcass. we'll kill the bank. >> i don't think we'll kill the bank. the bank is a very healthy institution. i think ceo jamie dimon would underscore that and the stock market actually underscores that but i do think that there's another interpretation here which is that there was a corporate culture of non-compliance and ignoring the rules. and i think what another way to interpret all this is that in fact there are just a number of different things that have gone on. the $13 billion figure from last week of course was actually had many components and many different behaviors. no, they weren't punished $13 billion then for one thing. it was several things the real issue is, is how many different things have gone on and what that infers about the actual culture of jpmorgan chase. dennis: yeah, okay.
harvey pitt, i don't get the feeling all the big fat fines are making us any safer from a bank melt down to tell you the truth but let's talk about senator elizabeth warren. she made her name bashing banks. sheave wrote bank-bashing books on way up. and ran the whole bank-bashing committee during the meltdown and demanding a list of all the criminal prosecutions from three agencies. you had an interesting point to make about that in the notes i read. please make it. >> well, it is interesting that she has asked the federal reserve, the sec and the comptroller of the currency to speak about their criminal prosecutions and jury verdicts. unfortunately each of those three agencies is completely devoid of criminal authority. dennis: right. >> it is a strange question to put to civil prosecutors. dennis: yes. wallace, come on here, babe. wouldn't you have to admit senator warren, mainly, is trying to stoke her own hopeful run for the presidency or something, rather than honestly coming out trying to heal and
rehab the banks? >> well, i don't know what is going on in her mind. obviously senators often have aspirations but i do know this. i do know that these agencies need to be pushed from time to time. many of them have conflicting responsibilities and sometimes these agencies really conflate the whole idea of how much money a bank is making with how, whether the money is coming from risk. so i think pushing the agencies on a consistent basis is a good thing. dennis: right. >> i think that is sort of less important than whatever detailed data comes out about how many prosecutions, how many fines, how many everything else. i think it is a question of pushing agencies and that is probably a good thing. dennis: of course to ask a question like that, how many prosecutions we have, merely encourages prosecutors to file more cases. never mind whether they really win. but, harvey pitt, isn't a fact
four years after the meltdown, five years after the meltdown we have had no big criminal prosecutions? doesn't it give a hint that prosecutors are not doing their job, doesn't it hint that the banks were not criminal, they were reckless and stupid? >> i think recklessness and stupidity was rampant but i'm not persuaded there was not criminal conduct as well. dennis: you're not? >> in the lehman bankruptcy, for example, you had a very knowledgeable and experienced former federal prosecutor, tony bilukas, who gave prosecutors a roadmap of all of the criminal and unlawful actions that led to the lehman meltdown and yet there has not been a single prosecution of any of those individuals. dennis: and you think that the guys dropped the ball, versus they looked into it and didn't find anything criminal? >> i don't think they dropped the ball. and i think people looked and looked hard and i think they got the wrong answers. >> wallace, one last question,
got to wrap then. wouldn't you agree though that all these fines, $13 billion on jpmorgan, even more for missing madoff, it is shareholders and hurting pension funds holding the stock? how is it really teaching the bank a lesson? >> let's look at this way, if the bank, if my sort of concern about the corporate culture of jpmorgan is true, i think perhaps even in the long run, in the long run, if that, if the bank can be more focused on compliance and doing the right thing, i think in the long run it could very well be the case that the bank is run better and doesn't have to continue to go through all of these problems and all of these fines. so i think that, like with many fines and incarceration, even, sometimes rehabilitation is a good part of the outcome. dennis: okay. if that doesn't work, guys, always just, tape a scarlet letter to jpmorgan and make them carry that around. thanks for being here, both of
you. appreciate it. >> my pleasure. dennis: okay, guys. up next on "money," looking for a job on the go. a new company has figured out a way to let you look for work while you're texting. we got the ceo here to explain all the ins and outs. plus, "who made money today?" he is an icon missed by millions but that ain't stopping people from playing his songs and paying for them. stay tuned to see who it is. "piles of money" coming up. e aue your financial advisor should focus on your long-term goals, not their short-term agenda. [ woman ] if you have the nerve to believe that cookie cutters should be for cookies, not your investment strategy. if you believe in the sheer brilliance of a simple explanation. [ male announcer ] join the nearly 7 million investors who think like you do: face time and think time make a difference. join us. [ male announcer ] at edward jones, it's how we make sense of investing.
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>> billionaire carl icahn ready should take a bite out of apple demanding a buyback $150 billion worth of stock from shareholders. the activist investor makes an ultimatum that if they don't follow his plan they will try to unseat the company board members now making some money moves we have jaundice max paris the
man with 31st names. carl icahn bought into his state he is already $400 million up and he has the nerve to do a buyback? is the right? >> this is the unforeseen problem that was the other problem but it opens the door to wall street. and it is cheap and evaluations are low. for the stock to take off because of engineering. i don't want to bad mouth him people will benefit but i highly doubt this is more than any of peru. it reality the way they are
being ryan and in this case the way the stock purchase is relative. >> now the stock is finally taking off but it is hard to grow that forever to become $1 trillion stock. there is no solution to solve the problem beyond the watch the of cuff link. >> talk about that. this is the era of the mouse that roared. i have never seen such a tiny stake in big companies that pushes so much change. it went up half a percentage point there is a lot of investors that say the same
thing. others are not quite as nosy -- noisy but who cares. but these portfolios and they should not. if they buy half of that thing you can play in your own people but that is not what they have. they have a small stake. it sounds like $100 billion is just sitting around but. dennis: haven't they already said we will buy back stock and raise dividend? now he is in in great. >>. caller: is to do them more by back in any other in history but it is not like the company is doing stupid stuff buying companies. dennis: like blackberry. >> you don't know when you will need that money especially in that business. what if samsung starts to
roll out internet service then they don't have that and they have to build a nationwide wife i? dennis: if i am a shareholder when i rather they invest in the stuff that will grow other than buying back pieces of paper? you could buy netflix at $17 billion getting into the movie business or by auto. >> but beddy-bye the dividend and the shareholders can decide. and then it does not mean they should have a lot of stupid stuff bddp ratios are low what if they got a patent? just a few years ago then they do the buyback.
>> so let's not get cocky. you are a safer you cautious thing. i can tell. jonas max ferris. thank you for being with us. and with the inefficiencies with jobs costing $350 billion per year. he hopes to change that with his start of companies that lets hourly workers apply for unemployment by sending a text. we have the ceo how do you like me to pronounce your name? >> luis. dennis: what does your application let me do? >> to refine and search for jobs but beyond that allows you to complete the job
application even from a feature phones or like text messaging always looking for a conflict point but the problem is it is almost as if you assume the limiting factor as to why we have so many unemployed people they don't have enough internet access or gadgets but is it a bigger factor? to have new jobs to fill them with these people? >> but with the capacity not only to find jobs but with did application also with the digital divide with the enormous amount of the deficiencies. that is a great problem for both the job seeker a and the employer.
their complete with a job application that cost the $350 billion cost to the economy so i want to talk about ways to increase the number of jobs in the way that can happen is 30% for 20% fed is wasted with inefficiencies but then put back into the economy. dennis: didn't monster take care of this problem 10 years ago applying online? >> but not through text messaging we are allowing people to complete the job application including text messaging. >> if i am the employer it is almost insulting when
some kid sends me a text to apply for a job instead of the pack it with work or examples were to visit or eating it is the lowest form of effort or communication it is the least commitment. >> exactly. it is not a simple text message. the job seeker completes a very complete job application it is the questions that he or she wants to ask for your text messaging you present yourself in the biggest lie possible. with work history a skill sets they could listen to
your voice with the employer wanted to ask. dennis: but it cannot communicate with a good handshake and a determined smile. best of luck to you. coming up d.c. your business is too small to go public? the u.s. stock offerings of big rule could be a game changer and one founder of the crowd funding site is year. at the end of the day it is all about money.
thank you orville and wilbur... ...amelia... neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions... in everything from the best experiences below... to the finest comforts above. we're not simply saluting history... we're making it.
into companies to the on-line exchange it could be a complete game changer now hear someone who knows a lot about this area co-founder and ceo of the largest site indiegogo. we appreciate you being here. what was the current state of affairs? kickstarter.com somebody goes on to the site then if you contribute $100 i will send you a baseball cape they were not allowed to say i will give you one-tenth of a percentage point in my movie now can they do that? >> absolutely. with that act that was voted yesterday to allow equity crowd funding for anybody. of laid-back through 1933 that securities act changed so lot that it will now be open funding and indiegogo came out 2008 we wanted to
do that right away we learned about the regulation then we did the other passion, the perks or to participate we have been raising millions of dollars every month for people around the world in these will change things now for a profit. dennis: that sounds exciting that sec had the qualified investor rule. said they have no way to block out the pork to do anything after all. will this lead a pour person putting $100? >> i would not even say for $100 million net worth soared to do $50,000 salary there is a lot of people so to democratize across the board absolutely everybody has the equal opportunity you don't have to be sophisticated investor just like not to be sophisticated
to have a driver's license. dennis: on the other side now have they put up a big business welcome sign to scampers who will do all kinds of to keep very? >> no question they need to balance with investor protection to stimulate job growth. over five years with indiegogo almost a '05 disturbing million dollars across the globe. dennis: but you were not promising any kind of return on investment doesn't that change? >> we're distributing tens of millions of dollars every month. we use our own processes or the data algorithm. that if you usually use your credit card in 10 places in the last three minutes? we analyze what is going on.
filmmaker spike lee raising money for a film isn't that a bastard's asian? are you in danger of having the big players come in to crowd out the little people? >> it is about judgment so we have the crowd make the judgment so let the crowd decided they want to find the largest crowd funding campaign on indiegogo of 30 million or a the local pizza shop is up to them. dennis: it is an exciting area and while one could be encouraged by the of votes to they have to come up with rules to enforce the vote or me too onerous with the rules?
>> the lot can now in 2012 when signed by obama and then they could get the information than finally they got the feedback and a finalized it in september we're just in the first up of title three now and the feedback and comments period. so not to be too hands-on with the implementation. dennis: it is almost appalling people should help people knows so much about title one or title to of the regulation. is there something the send? >> one thing is that that crowd equity funding hit two years ago indiegogo has multiplied the grows by than. it is already happening it is going into businesses but
if there is one thing i would do is take away the audit requirement if you want to raise over $5,000 that is really an arrest. dennis: thank you. up next the perfect attention getting add how about a full page of nothing? it is like seinfeld that is what a movie is doing to promote itself. in "spare change." you can never have too much money. ♪ nice car. sure is. make a deal with me, kid, and you can have the car and everything that goes along with it. ♪ ♪
"spare change". yesterday "the new york times" ran an interesting thing. here is one page blank but turn the page and guess what? a second blank page it turns out down here and there are words it is not for pro-life but the upcoming movie the books these. do you get it? the first thing i thought of was the. >> we tell them we have an idea about a show about nothing. what is it about? nothing. >> there you go. >> you may have something. [laughter] >> the ad about nothing now with full disclosure it is the 20th century fox picture. >> it was a brilliant the most expensive blank page 160 grand but i looked and
said i have to see what this is about. i did go to the lincoln that was a brilliant trailer and it was fantastic. >> i don't think so. everybody is to develop their content on the web unless you are justin p. barry will not get people to engage so this is a way to make intelligent people be curious and go check out. dennis: just for the devil's advocate we don't have time to bother going to the web site and worse than that we're or knee and the fact that they did that to make me go there. >> people to give information, words, something like this caught my eye because i am overstimulated
constantly. >> it was in variety, and a case study for the advertising classis every business school in america so they want people talking about it that it made some noise would be a good thing. dennis: with a jazz solo trumpet player the most important note is the one that he leaves out so maybe you have a point but how about a compelling image? isn't the blank page the cop out? >> they thought about this carefully especially looking at the trailer. that is what the movie is about this young girl was not exposed to broken toe minor 10 years old? >> i appreciate it. nicely done. who made money today?
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jackson's estate to the king of pop takes the top spot of a dead celebrities in 2012. with $160 million of the past year and let it that many with two shows with jackson the state still earning big bucks from his music from the sony catalog especially with beatles anntaylor swift and lady got god. losing money today anybody that owns revlon. it said it will return to profit in has been dealing with declining revenue and lower revenue in the u.s. the ron perelman lost more than 2.$2 million today.
and he can make it out tomorrow. that is all we have no. we hope to make some money today. stick with us we will see you tomorrow with gerri willis in "the willis report." >> i am gerri willis. finger-pointing on capitol hill. lawmakers grilled the people hired to build the obamacare web site. >> that is a weak excuse amazon in the bay don't crash the week before christmas. >> also why the system cost reported $1 billion and not properly tested. >> did not work. >> and also investigating why that canadians fire that computer company that is at the center of the obamacare mass. we are watching out for you. tonight. "the willis report."