k.t. mcfarland will look at what's happening in the middle east, russia and eastern europe. thanks for being with us. the trump candidates i. -- candidacy. >> thank you, new hampshire. john: a socialist won in new hampshire. how can this be? to knee socialism means less choice, less freedom, poverty, misery. the good news is some young people who lived under socialism warn others what it's like. >> with bernie sanders if you select that guy it will be tough. john: but somehow socialism is not a threat to many americans. capitalism is the dirty word. >> you don't consider yourself a capitalist? >> no, i don't.
john: capitalism versus socialism, that's our show tonight. bernie sanders killed it in new hampshire, overwhelmingly democratic voters chose a man who calls himself a democratic socialist. voters want that? i guess they don't know what socialism means. bernie says it mines all kinds of good things like fairness, equality, kindness. his supporters say democratic socialism is what countries like denmark have. people there have comfortable lives. i'm starting to talk myself into this. but thinking this way is dumb. i liked what regina posted on my
facebook page. she says people don't understand it means for the good of the group over the individual. still lots of americans say that would be good. let's take care of the group, not just selfish rich individuals. that's what democracy for america, million-member progressive group for howard dean believes. they endorsed bernie sanders. neil soroka speaks for the group. you must be happy. >> when someone is aggressive think speak up to the fact that we all do better when we all do better to win in such a big way is good for democrats and good for the country. john: socialism generally means the government owns the means of production. do you want that? >> i think there are antiquated views of what socialism is. i don't think people are calling for state ownership of the gas station down the street.
but we are saying the current system isn't working. when over 40 million americans are still living in poverty that a millionaire and billionaire class is trying the essentially own all political discourse in this country, that's problematic and that's what we have to work together to dismantle. john: let's take them one at a time. own political discourse. you are referring to citizens united. rich people spends a lot of the money on political campaigns? >> it's the way wealthy and powerful interests control congress. the real challenge this country is how do we make sure corporations aren't the ones writing the laws. real people that elect representatives get a say in their government. john: i didn't see the corporations winning when they backed romney or hillary in the
last election or jeb bush this election. all this money and spending on ads doesn't seem to buy the country. >> there will be times they win and they lose. but at end of the day, when you are helping write the laws, when you are helping determine what goes on in washington -- john: the unions and big government, that's not influential, they aren't writing the laws and manipulating the rules to suit them? >> here is the big difference. unions are a collection of working people coming together to themselves enact change. john: so are corporations. >> but there is a distinct profit motive that unions don't have. if we want to have reform of compensation across corporations and unions, let's do it.
let's make sure nobody is make an unfair, undue profit off everyone else's work. john: you want to fix the big wealth disparity and there is one. socialism professes to do that. but how did that work in the soviet union store cuba and venezuela. how come it never works and it leaves everybody poor? >> there are a lot of nordic countries that have the democratic socialist world view that works today and it's working quite well for working people. john: when you say nordic countries, what do you seen in. >> sweden, norway? it would be a great place to be a middle class working person. john: in europe youth unemployment is 20%. double than it is in america. what have they invented in
norway or denmark. what innovation has come out of europe? this is a stagnant place. it was rich. socialism has made them complacent and poor. >> i don't think we have to have this false choice between innovation and a country that works for working people. we had a system where we can insure that government and business works for working people, it's going to look different than it looks in the rest of the world. but creating this false choice isn't helpful when we know the system we have right now isn't working for most people except those at the very top. john: let's go to social media, i asked my social media followers for their thoughts on socialism. martin dean posted capitalism accomplishes all the goals socialism tries to achieve and does it without theft or use force. own google plus.
jason added capitalism is about choice, socialism is about force. that's true. government is forced. you may hate these big companies. but you don't have to buy their stuff. eye would love to have a single payer healthcare system. if something goes wrong and i don't get access to the care i survive, i can go after the politicians enacting that policy. i can vote them out of office. i don't have that sort of choice when it comes to taking down a health insurance industry that active think clouds with one another. john: what are you talking about. you have one vote in vermont. in vermont your vote won't down in the presidential election. we know they will vote democratic. among private health insurance companies. if you don't like your company
you can go to another company. you can vote with your dollars. >> you can vote with our dollars if they will take your money when you want to buy health insurance. that was the big problem we had prior to obamacare. so many people talk about eliminating obamacare steam forget the real challenge people had was health insurance wouldn't cover them. they were cherry picking the healthy people versus the sick people. john: that's what insurance is, they try to make and profit and the really sick people may need to be taken care of by the government. we are out of time, but thank you for arguing your point. lots of americans, especially young people agree with him. there is real excitement at bernie sanders rallies. people channel feel the berks rn. >> we are going to explain what
democratic socialism is. what democratic socialism is saying is it's immoral and wrong that at top 1/10 of 1% own almost 90%. john: i think a lot of americans feel 1% of americans control so much wealth. that's why democrats say government ought to step in and redistribute. if that's socialism, what's wrong with that. let's ask an economist. what's wrong with that? >> it doesn't work. we have historical evidence it has never worked. lit never work it's a system that is not fitting for human being as we truly are. john: you group under socialism under yugoslavia until you were 14 years old.
>> i learned a lot by the from my far it who was a public auditor in croatia. he sat rot from within. he was checking the books of all of these government controlled businesses. he tried to get us out of yugoslavia in the 1970s and did not succeed until 1984. but i had a chance even though i was young, to observe how socialism does not work in person. john: you are talking about communism. today's democratic socialists say we couldn't want that. we just want denmark. >> there is rhetorical flourishing going on here. denmark is not what bernie and his followers say it is. the prime minister of denmark objected to denmark being referred to as democratic asocialist country just back in november.
he was quite upset about it. he point out denmark as a strong market economy. if you look at what denmark has been doing, that's true. john: they have less regulation, fewer labor rules, it's easier to hire and fire. >> all correct. they are ranked extremely close to the united states in terpt of the index of economic freedom. john: you say income redistribution never works. they say, you know, in denmark and europe, the people are closer together. it's a nicer site, bert for everybody. >> they really are not speaking the truth. the fact is that in denmark we have still a great deal of income inequality. 10% of the people control 80% of the wealth. even in denmark.
there i no way to avoid it. what they do do is even gang in a great deal of income redistribution. if bernie want the u.s. to be more like denmark. what should happen is taxes would go up on most americans, most middle class people, most of them poor people, and go up considerably. but here it's just one -- john: we are out of time. thank you. how soon will america go broke? baits' not just sanders and the democrats who promise impossible spending. republicans want to spend more, too. >> we need to increase our military spending. >> we are not spending enough right now.
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so what do the democratic candidate say about that? >> i would like to see planned parenthood get more funding. >> we should expand funding. john: they all want to spend more on everything. this would be bad and socialist enough if government had the money, but it doesn't, to fund it prop is. we reached $19 trillion of debt this month. you ready to pay your share? despite this crisis, this elect season we have heard nothing from the candidate about the debt. doesn't anybody care about the debt and america going broke? i care and so does this woman. >> i'm the deputy director and the rowe institute.
she is a geeky budget analyst and she spend her days obsessing about our debt and sometimes testifying about it. nobody cares. >> i think people do care but they don't understand the root source of the problem. $19 trillion in debt means it's larger than the size of our entire economy. that drags down growth. we should care about economic opportunity. john: interest rates are low,er said this would and disaster when the debt was much less. >> it's like you are on the titanic. you see the iceberg on the radar screen. it's time to make course directs now and not go toward it. social security, medicare, medicaid, those changes hard to make. but congress need to get us on the path to balancing in the long run.
>> he can motor because? >> because of higher spending. 85% of the growth and spending is from social security, medicare, medicaid and interest on the debt. john: i'm old, i refuse to die, i keep wanting to collect the some of my government promised me. we are a big group than that will bankrupt me. >> it's the population 55 and older that tend to vote pore disproportionately. john: we have a chart by paul krug who calls it the mostly solved deficit problem. >> the step up plus spending and the tarp bailouts. spending is going up. that's the real problem. the only reason we have seen an improvement in the deficit.
most of it is because of tax increases. john: it hasn't blown up partly because interest rates are low. what happens if interest rates went back up to a normal historical 5%? >> we'll be spending more in interest on the debt than we'll be spending on the military or other federal national priorities and that's troubling. every dollar that goes to interest on the debt is a dollar that's not available for the federal priorities. >> even the republicans want to spend more. >> i will tell you we are not spending enough right now. >> the republicans want to increase military spending. the democrats want to increase spending on everything. >> universal healthcare coverage for every man woman and child. >> public colleges and universities, tuition free.
john: they get this thunderous applause. people are excited by more spending. they are not excited by what you are talking about. >> that's how you got massive unfunded liabilities. seniors and baby boomers, we need to make change now and the next president will have to lead on this issue. if we don't cut spending, we just try to make up for all these unfunded liabilities are tax increases, we would have to raise taxes on everyone by double their taxes. there isn't enough money to get from the rich. so you are raising taxes on low income workers. that's way it's going to take if we don't cut spending. john: next, young people being brainwashed into supporting socialism. >> he introduced himself as the most raging liberal you will ever meet. john: what can a student say
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students about leftist professors. >> he introduced himself as the most ranging liberal you will see. he said if you don't like it, he said you can get out. >> have you ever changed an answer to you will get a good grade? >> oh, yes. john: are you going to stand and say excuse me, professor, you are pushing socialist myths. so first what is the foundation for economic education? >> the foundation is the oldest premarket think tank in the united states, and our focus is on high school and college students giving them the facts and figures and arguments they need to stand up for individual liberty and small government and private property and personal character.
john: lept start with some of the big ones. the great depression was caused bid capitalism. >> just the opposite is the case. the federal reserve began to raise interest rates in 1929 and choked off money growth and the economy slumped. it was the price we paid for the previous bubble. then you had one crazy policy of government after another. we had sky high tariffs. he doubled the income tax and fdr came along later and made it worse. you cannot close the door to i am 40s without closing the door to ex -- you cannot close the door to imports without closing the doors to exports. foreign governments retaliated and raised their tariffs against american goods.
so they knead a recession a depression. john: america had recessions before and we quickly recovered. this time hoover and roosevelt took steps to fix the depression. it got much worse and got much worse. >> two years later we had the revenue act passed which doubled the income tax. it raised the top rate by more than a doubling. when franklin roosevelt came into office the new deal interventions came in. by the end of his first term franklin roosevelt doubled spending. in the midst of it all you had roosevelt constantly attacking people of end prize calling them economic royalists. john: on colleges everybody believes fdr saved us. >> it's so false.
the depression was still with us on the eve of world war ii. we didn't get a recovery until after world war ii. john: the next myth. profit is evil. >> profit is the measure of success accepts. it's the fertilizer that quickens the imagination of men and women in a free marketplace. a depression is an economy without profit. >> a couple more myths. jesus was socialist. >> jesus himself was after he broached and this is recorded in the book of luke by a man who wanted him to redistwri tbiewt wealth. he says master, speak with my brother that he divide the inheritance with me. he replied, month who made me a judge and divider over you. jesus came to uphold the law.
the 10 commandsments are pivotal. the -- the ten commandments say thou shallt not steal. it doesn't go on to say unless you can find a politician to do it for you or unless you can spends it better than the guy who earned it. john: thank you, larry reid. my next guest says you have guys, you are out of touch. you don't realize socialism is not a dirty word anymore. but capitalism is. that's next. welcome to the world 2116, you can fly across town in minutes or across the globe in under an hour. whole communities are living on mars and solar satellites provide earth with unlimited clean power. in less than a century, boeing took the world from seaplanes to space planes, across the universe and beyond.
john: exactly. when carly fiorina said that i cheered finally. a politician saying that big government promising to fix things causes problems. and they propose solutions to problems they created in the first place. but apparently i'm not normal. carly fiorina didn't generate much excitement on the campaign trail. and 43% of likely democratic voters in the iowa caucuses said they would use the word socialist to describe themselves. shoot me. while this surprises me, frank s only because i'm clueless about the way people see socialism today.pread across the entire
country and the fact is no one ever bothered to defend free markets. john: we have the pew poll 18-29, 49% picked socialism. >> if do you not educate, explain and inform, then we have no one to blame but ourselves. john: frank luntz had a focus group watch the first democratic debate. watch what happened when the first socialist candidate was asked this. do you consider yourself a capitalist?
>> do i consider myself part of the casino capitalists by which so many have so little and so few have so much where wall street and its greed wrecked this economy? no, i do not. let me just be clear. is there anybody else on this stage who is not a capitalist? john: i was relieved the other candidates didn't rush to raise their hand. but they weren't eager to call themselves socialists. what bothered me about frank's focus group is they liked bernie sanders trashing capitalism. >> how many of you walked in supporting hillary clinton. how many are still supporting hillary clinton? who won tonight's debate? those of you who switched to support a socialist? >> he's for social democracy. >> equal opportunity.
if you are a young person and you tell someone of the opposite sex that you are a socialist you are much more likely to get action at the end of the evening? why? because being a socialist in 2016 among college kids is cool. if it's cool today it's going to change american politics tomorrow. john: some political commentators still think socialism has a stigma but they want to fix that. here is larry o'donnell. >> we need to take the political sting out of the word socialist. we john mccain began calling barack obama a socialist, everyone not just me, should have said so are you. john: we are socialists because we get social security and we
use parks and libraries. that's the argument and it's working. >> i know you are hostile to this and we have had conversations off camera where the work i do concerns you. if you are not attempting to define the word, then lawrence we are done as a people. and 100 years from now they will look back and say they would say it's because we gave in to socialism that america in the even lost its way. john: last week on my show my guest said he has a measuring system that measures physiological responses while you mostly ask questions and some people lie or say thing to
seem impressive. maybe your methods are olenge. the technology is moving quickly. but we have done well predicting which candidates are emerging. we are able to measure what people actually think and how they actually feel on a second by second basis. i'm always looking to improve as i'm sure you are. we always want higher better systems and higher ratings. that's our mission and hopefully we'll deliver. john: thank you, frank luntz. next some good news in places that already tried socialism. some young people like this woman who has seen the bad things socialism has done are things socialism has done are drawing big crowds talking about
apparently it appeals to young people. haven't they noticed south of our border socialist policies have been tried and they led to more poverty? after experiencing socialist misery, some young people in latin america have figured out social itch is not a good thing. i don't know exactly what this young woman is saying, i don't speak spanish. but i know she has a following. this speech was watched more than 7 million times. the speaker is gloria alvarez. and she joins us now. you are talking to people in latin america about markets. >> individual right, life, liberty and private property which are the most violated rights in all of our continent. john: and people want to hear this? >> yes, they are getting sick of what they have seen.
especially venezuela, bolivia, weak doer, countries who have -- ecuador. john: just about all of them have tried it at some point in latin america. and the most recent socialist failure is venezuela. this guy and his predecessor says socialism will lift up the poor. instead socialists took venezuela from relative poverty to extreme poverty and riots. >> more street protests which left 42 people dead in venezuela, despite having the largest oil reserves. they are having trouble finding milk, chicken and toilet paper in stores. >> i went undercover in a supermarket. the lines are infinite. when you get in, there is nothing to buy, even if you have a card.
john: the president of venezuela says the cause of the short ands in the stores is greedy capitalists. he says he will force all stores to install high-tech fingerprint scanners and limit the amount people can buy. >> there is military force outside the supermarket checking you don't take more than what you are allowed to take. john: the government create a problem, short ages, then they will fix it by spending money on fingerprint scanners. >> in latin america we don't understand how economics work. it should be enough to see cuba failing. but in cuba they say you don't have freedom but kids go to school for free so it's a good system. even though you have prostitutes that go to bed with someone for toothpaste.
because we don't know history. because latin americans are oblivious to what happened in the soviet union and china. john: so are north americans. if you select bernie sanders it will be chaos for you. john: how did you learn this? >> in my family i have cuban history. my grandparent and my dad told me about communism. i studied at a libertarian university. john: there is one in latin america. u.f.m. it is very unusual. the first thing they teach you is marx and socialism. one of the first books i read was george orwell animal farm. one thing is what your parents tell you. but you contrast that with reality. i worked on radio. i worked on journalism.
in your bike found like inspiration to continue with this idea. john: do you get a lot of hostile pushback? >> every country i go too all the control the government has they start insulting you on the internet, facebook and twitter. before this video came out, i was not known in latin america. the proposal was let the populism using technology, facebook, twitter to say the reality about what's going on. let's film how the supermarkets are and people are dying. john: you equate populism with socialism. >> yes. it's a way of psychological manipulations specially for people who don't have a good education and have immediate needs. you satisfy those needs by giving food or medicines as long as there is money. but when you start nationalizing and expropriating you finish
with the sources of productivity in our country, then the money is running out. john: thank you gloria alvarez. i wish you luck convincing them. since they are socialists and capitalists, which one is he. >> when they call i give. when i need something from them two years later, three years later, i call them and they are there for me. in new york state, we believe tomorrow starts today. all across the state the economy is growing, with creative new business incentives, the lowest taxes in decades, and university partnerships, attracting the talent and companies of tomorrow. like in utica, where a new kind of workforce is being trained. and in albany, the nanotechnology capital of the world. let us help grow your company's tomorrow, today at business.ny.gov
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>> thank you, new hampshire now it's on to nevada, south carolina and beyond. [cheers and applause] john: a socialist won new hampshire apparently some americans are eager for socialism. i don't think they know what it is. two presidents gave your tax money to rich bankers. entrepreneurs took risks, and when they failed government loaned them money or gave them money or protected them with anti-competitive laws. but the socialists failed to make a distinction between economic entrepreneurs versus political entrepreneurs.
people who get rich by funding political cronies. here is one rich guy brag being doing that. >> i give to everybody. when they call i give. when i need something from from them two years later, three years later, i call them and they are there for me. john: i bet they are. but that's not right. that's not a level playing field. we need to stop those crony capitalists. but the unfairness isn't capitalism's fault, it's big government's fault. cal capitalists will always look for special deals. government shouldn't give to it them. the democratic socialism's biggest complaint is income inequality. the richest of the rich are vastly richer than the poor. why is that a national problem? some people are more clever than others, some work harder. under capitalism some people
work better. and when they get poor they do better, too. the claim that the rich got rich at the expense of the poor, so lately the poor got poorer. that's a lie. the poor and middle class got richer, too. socialism would make us more equal. it worked in russia, china, cuba. under socialism everyone is poor. well, everyone except the political leaders. attacking rich people turns out to be a popular way for nasty dictators to grab power. larry reid lists examples in his book, excuse me, professor. stalin persecuted neerms had a
little mere money than the other farmers. prime minister and lennon called them blood-sucking parasites. hitler said similar things about jews. mao said the landlord class was guilty of economic exploitation. today when the castro brothers are criticized for killing political opponents or beating and starving people in labor camps, they say you have no right to criticize us because you live in country where there are millionaires and beggars. it's infuriating that today's democratic socialists industrialify capitalism at a time when there is less of this in the world because of capitalism. in the past 25 years says the world bank, the number of people living in extreme poverty dropped by half.
a billion people who once lived lining that no longer do. this is the biggest success stormy. a billion people are no longer poor thanks to the capitalism socialists vilify. and the media are so gullible and clueless. mainstream supporters say we don't take time. listen to this oily question this cbs reporter puts to bernie sanders. >> how did we get to the point where socialism was painted with such a dirty brush? john: it got to that point because socialism led to starvation, poverty, death, all around the world. wise up cbs reporters and socialism lovers. do we want to put more power in the hands of government? no.
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