80 to the hospital. police have arrested two men in connection to the attacks, which authorities are calling terror. david: we'll see you tomorrow. that does it for us. risk and reward starts right now. [sirens] liz: europe and the world on edge. a massive terror attack in barcelona. isis has claimed responsibility. a terrorist in a van plowed through a crowd of tourists in spain's second largest city. now we have an update for you. breaking news. 13 killed. more than 100 wounded. that's according to local authorities. the fear is that those numbers may rise. and now this. local police in barcelona have shot and killed a man who was in a car that hit two police officers. welcome to risk and reward. i'm elizabeth macdonald. it is the scene of carnage on the streets of barcelona.

suffering its worst attack in 13 years. the attack took place in a popular tourist shopping area in the heart of barcelona. two suspects now arrested. ashley webster has the latest. ashley. ashley: yeah, liz, it has been a little chaotic as the information has come out of barcelona. as you say, the latest number 13 dead, 100 injured, at least. we are told that 15 of those are very seriously injured, so the death toll could go higher. we have two suspects, we are told, in custody. it's unclear how many suspects may be involved and whether the search goes on for others. one of those suspects who was widely reported by spanish media and around the world when his picture appeared on television in spain, the individual said "wait a minute. that's not me. i live outside barcelona. he turned himself in and said, yes, that's my picture. that is my name. but i wasn't even in barcelona. and then told police that he

believes his identity and all of his documents were stolen, he believes by his younger brother. so a little bit of a twist there. that individual who has not been identified is believed to have rented that white van and as you say, liz, drove it down a very busy and popular pedestrians boulevard in the very heart of barcelona. witnesses say it was traveling at up to 50 miles an hour and at one point even zigzagging trying to hit as many people as possible. the other incident that's been reported is a car that blew through a police checkpoint in another part of barcelona earlier today. that led to a shoot-out with police and one suspect was killed. it is still unclear and spanish authorities won't say whether that incident is actually related to the van attack. but, again, the center of barcelona tonight it's late now in barcelona is shut down. plenty of police presence. still searching going on as

they try to get to the heart of who may have taken part in this attack. we do know that isis through its media arm has claimed responsibility for the attack. but, again, liz, still more information coming out. are there more people involved? we don't know. but what we do know is that one of the most popular tourist destinations in europe have become a tragic scene tonight as we, again, report 13 dead, 100 wounded, and that number could become worse. liz: thank you, ashley. you will be staying on the story for us throughout the hour. >> yes. liz: thank you, ashley. and now staggering statistic. worldwide 19,800 people have been killed and more than 51,000 have been injured in islamist global terror attacks since 1990. that includes the world trade center bombing in 1993 and 9/11. with more reaction on barcelona is the founder and president of america islamic forum for democracy. he is dr. zuhdi jasser. good to see you, doctor. >> thank you. good to be with you, liz.

liz: isis has claimed responsibility for barcelona. it's another terror attack involving a van. you've been on this story for us. more than 100 killed over the last year or so in this way nice, berlin, stockholm. do you think this could be part of a larger cell? >> well, we're hearing that there may be more element to this than simply the van and as typical, there's always coordination with a number of members involved once they go operational. and isis has been at the top of their drive to drive jihadist attacks, as you and i have spoken just in the last week, we know about the attack broken out of australia, which was the attack on airlines and phosphorous bombs, et cetera. and then we know about the one that was going to be launched on trains on inspire magazine simply a few days ago was found to be inspiring. so this is not a surprise. and now they found a city, barcelona which was not attacked. spain hasn't been attacked in

over ten years since the madrid bombings. so this is a whack-a-mole program. there are thousands -- a report out of france yesterday, liz, said that there were 18,000 jihaddists that were being tracked in france alone. the uk has 28,000. i'm sure spain has in the thousands. i don't know the numbers out of spain. but realize that there are just too many to follow. why? we're not following the ideology. and as we learn more, i'm pretty confident we're going to see that these folks were connected to islamist ideology. liz: your point is well taken, and you're saying the number in the double digits. counties like france, i think the intelligence and other forces there. numbers in the thousands. to your point, again, the world. look at the number killed. 19,800 since 1990. we should point out that in 2015, 28,000 people were killed in all sorts of terror attack.

we're focused on islamic jihadis right now because isis is claiming responsibility for barcelona. go ahead, doctor. >> and this is the tip of the iceberg. these are the ones that happen to be in the eu that are operationalled through their radical ideology. the underlying element of this iceberg are the militant organization and infrastructure from syria, from iraq and iran, saudi arabia, the militants groups, if you will. the ideology continues to flow, and we're going to continue this very dizzying whack-a-mole program until we get a coordinated response to counter the ideology. the jihadists want to build states, they want to weaken the west, they want to draw influence from the middle east so that they can start put into place theocratic states and counter the dictatorships that exist there. and we've been completely missing in action on engaging a third pass, if you will, of

more moderate ideological options for muslims and reform. liz: the trump administration is saying this will never be the norm. this will never be the new normal what's going on here. in the west, there is universal revulsion. they murder muslims and nonmuslims alike. doctor, here's the thing. are people finally around the world going to use the term islamic terror? are we no longer exceeding to blackmail to avoid defending when the majority of muslims reject this radical ideology, and they are victimized too. >> the reason they have to use this term is we can't treat a disease that we can't diagnose. and once you diagnose, you enable the treatments that we need to have. and these symptoms, this virus that keeps coming back and back, you can't employ the right treatment against the cancer or the virus unless you know what you're treating. and it is a threeocratic version, a supremacist version of islam that wants the west

to withdrawal its ideas of secular freedom, religious freedom, treating everyone equal under the law. all those ideas are threats. they want to invoke laws, and they do that by weakening our resolve. and the moment, liz, that we call this a new normal is the moment we surrender to isis and surrender to the radicals because they want us to consider this normal so that we simply go away from the business of trying to win the hearts and minds of muslims who currently -- this is why you often see multiple attacks is because remember, the paris attacks in november 2015 were followed by the same cell acting in march of 2016. they hid out within communities that were completed separated from the rest of european society. and the security apparatus couldn't even get them because of that. and still now two years later, we're still talking about increasing in the tens of thousands of threats because we're just not treating the disease. liz: to your point, there's something in the mind-set of the terrorists that we've talked to law enforcement and

intelligence officials around the world. they dehumanize people as the other. and they don't treat them with the humanity and respect that they deserve. it's striking in a age of nuclear weapons, proliferation there and genetically bioengineered toxins, something as simple as a van can kill so many. >> exactly. i mean, they will continue to morph the weapons they use from vehicular jihad to trains to whatever it takes to invoke whether it's machetes. it's not about the weapons. it's about invoking fear in random events that appear to be random but allow innocent tourists and others to feel that they can't be normal. they can't live a normal life. and we can't change who we are, and we shouldn't. but if we're going to counter that, we need to look at the precursors before they get militarized. we need to look at the precursors of the groups that say that muslims are victims, that muslims are victims of bigotry. that they don't fit into society.

all of these memes, if you will, that tell muslims that they can't live happily as free thinking muslims in the west, that radicalizes them and begins them on the course of radicalization and creates the separatist idea that makes them for operationalling in a van into killing innocents and dehumanizing them in that last step where nonmuslims become simply dehumanized individuals that they become targets. liz: to your point, oxford university looked at the background of terrorists and most of them are university trained. they become engineers or doctors. but, sir, these are decentralized and lethal. very dangerous terror network. they have franchises all over the world, and they're using the benefits of capitalism to do their plots. you talked about it. laptops and smartphone devices. checking luggage with plastic bomb components on commercial airplanes. using ebay and paypal to stream cash to lone wolfs. they're capitalizing on

capitalism. >> they really are, and it's all hands on deck to see something, say something. we don't know where the next threat's going to be. they try to distract us with inspire magazine that talks about trains while then they use the vehicular jihad to attack innocent people shopping. so at the end of the day, we need a cultural shift at every level of society, it in malls, restaurants, in our military, in our police, in our media to begin to counter the hate speech. i mean, we had just a month ago doing an hour screed of anti-semitic jew hatred in southern california, and we couldn't get media to pay. liz: that is unacceptable. that is completely unacceptable that that is happening in the united states. it's unacceptable. sir, that tells me they're not assimilating to our bill of rights and constitutional values that we have here of freedom and democracy. go ahead. >> and when he was confronted, two weeks later with an interface background, he does an apology saying, well, you

know, i'm sorry. i didn't mean it. this is what it was. well, listen, that wasn't good enough. that entire mosque needs -- not only the hate speech but the books and the literature that teach muslims that western society is not theirs, it's not islamic, that somehow we need -- the only way to fight jihad is to disimagine the states that teach jihadism obligation of the islamic state. not only isis but any islamic state nationalism needs to be defeated, and we muslims are the only ones that can solve this, and it needs all hands on deck at every level of culture from music to business to military and police. liz: you know, a strong leader sets the tone for an entire bureaucracy. the trump administration is standing up and saying you know what? enough is enough. there's no greater violation of civil rights than being bombed at work or being, you know, struck by a van and killed by terrorists in a tourist area. why didn't the media cover that story that you just brought to us about what's going on with that mosque in southern california?

>> well, some of us tried to scream about it and talk about it and some media did. but you're right. the mainstream media is so obsessed with the derangement syndrome of russia and other things, they are completely ignoring their role in covering topics that are important to be covered for us to be safe and treat the other pathologies that exist that continue to threat us. because, listen, liz. there is the constituency that these radicals could be pointing to is a quarter of the population. and we're going to the point of historic where we either reject theocracy or overtaken by it. and the media, it facebook, google, or others need to start playing the role in helping empower the voices with the platforms that we have. and even after manchester, there were huge missed opportunities with millions paying attention and everybody sort of ignoring the ideology in the middle of the room. liz: dr. zuhdi jasser, good to see you, sir.

thank you for being on. >> thank you, liz. liz: let's take a look at your money in the wake of the barcelona attack. stocks ending in session lows after the news there. the dow plunging 274 points. that's the biggest one-day drop in three months. the dow movers were apple, cisco, goldman sachs weighing on a jittery, nervous market on edge. also on fears that gary cohn, the president's quarterback on his economic growth agenda could quit. the white house saying he is not quitting. he's staying put. s&p sectors hit hardest include the tech sector, financials, and industrials. let's get to this: president trump tweeting earlier the united states terror attack in barcelona, spain and will do whatever is necessary to help. be tough and strong. we love you. we're going to have more on this terror attack in barcelona. we're going to be right back. don't touch that dial

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liz: local officials talking now about the barcelona terror attack in spain. we're going to take you right to spain. let's get to it. okay. we're going to come back out. when we get that sound, we'll bring you right back to that. vice president mike pence reacting to the terror attack in barcelona. we'll give you an update on this. 13 dead, more than 100 injured. a van plowed into a crowd of pedestrians in a popular tourist area. it took place in barcelona. it is the famous tourist and pedestrians walkway in the heart of the city. isis claiming responsibility for the attack. two arrests of suspects have been made. joining me now former cia officer buck sexton and

officer darren. great to see you. buck, first to you. how quickly will authorities discern if this is a larger terror cell? >> they're going to be looking immediately at the electronic and digital footprint left behind by these individuals. they're going to be pulling cell phones, any computer activity, and that will give them a pretty good sense as to who is involved in the operational cell or people around them. the people that can provide support. and also looking if there's any external direct operation from the islamic state or some of its operatives. so that can happen in a matter of hours. liz: a matter of hours. there's reports out of spanish passport of a person of m origin. what does that tell them behind the scenes? >> traditionally one of the quickest ways to authentic someone's identification is through print technology. coupled with facial recognition. that should give us a recognition as to who this individual is. upon completion of the assessment, then you could move further into trying to determine who this individual

was. one of the first things that i will look into if a person is arrested, what was the timeline in when this person was arrested in terms of who did they reach out to? who were the contacts? who did they make phone calls to, et cetera? so that will be information in trying to gain information timeline on who they're in connection with. liz: you know, why spain? spain hasn't had a major terror attack. >> since 2004. liz: 13 years. why spain now? >> spain actually plays a very large role in much of the jihad i can rhetoric that happened against europe because they vowed. they refer back centuries to when this was actually islamic territory, and they have names for it. they refer to it as part of the caliphate, and that's why there's always been this sense going back to bin laden that they like to attack in spain because of the historic connections and the long-standing and centuries of fighting between christians and muslims and the peninsula. liz: wow so, you know, it's a new era, doctor.

the safety according to the trump administration. that's what they're saying. that is the principle operation of government. so have we left behind the idea that we should stop referring to it as islamic terror? i mean, the 9/11 report refers to it as islamist terror seven times. >> a lot of this terrorism that has been happening in europe has been islamic terrorism. so we need the focus of sources and where this is coming from. liz: when you name it, you can make connections faster. >> absolutely. let's call a spade a spade. the isis has come out in since taken recognition for this. we don't know if this is inspired or directed by isis. but they have left the hook in this state that we did have some level of connection what would happen here. so going back to how we label it and how we target it, we have to focus on many of the senses of where these people are coming from and what is the ideology that they're moving forward. liz: we had dr. judy jasser on, and he's saying there's a cultural shift now. previously, this thinking was

under the prior administration that if we close gitmo or we stop making offensive cartoons that the terrorist threat would recede. >> there's a level of clarity that's added by the trump administration here that fighting against terror is not the cause of it. that terrorism is not a response to u.s. foreign policy. this isn't the result of the legacy of colonialism. this isn't because of u.s. support of israel. when they attack places like spain and in the jihadist chat rooms and jihadist literature, they will refer back to what's happening in the 15th century. i think we have a sense that this is a deep-seated idea logical battle. you have to name it, you have to understand what the ideology wants. and know that they're not going way away, and you have to take the fight to them. liz: the u.s. military will stay in syria for a indefinite time to battle these forces. that's breaking news just moments ago. so what we're talking about too periodical and frequently on the show is how terrorists are using the benefits of capitalism. they're using commercial airlines to transport plastic components and check luggage.

ebay and paypal to send cash to lone wolfs. is this a new era of terrorism that we're seeing and the way they're spreading their franchises of fear and terror around the world? >> i think it's just a revolution in terrorism. terrorism is just moving with the innovation in society. so we have a group of people that hate us. they hate the aspect of capitalism in the united states. therefore, they will use whatever means possible. liz: why do they hate it? i mean, they've been getting oil government subsidies to live on. that's the business model for their governments to have extensive entitlement statements off of the fruits of oil. and they don't -- they've been subsidized for most of their lives. so why do they hate capitalism? >> this is a small population of the islamic community. they feel a sense of being disenfranchised, and they're looking to grab hold of anything that -- that pathway to success for them, and it just goes back to we have the -- we have a very free society here. we have multiple religions that we practice here in the united states.

whereas it's more of a monolithic culture when it comes to islam. therefore, they have targeted us because we're free society. liz: buck and darren, you've been great. thank you, doctor. thank you, buck. isis has claimed responsibility for the attack in barcelona. 13 dead. over 100 injured. two people have been arrested. we will bring you the very latest as soon as we get it. we will be right back. don't go away flat tire in the middle of the night. hold on dad... liberty did what? yeah, liberty mutual 24-hour roadside assistance helped him to fix his flat so he could get home safely. my dad says our insurance doesn't have that. don't worry - i know what a lug wrench is, dad. is this a lug wrench? maybe? you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance.

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>> we offer our condolences to the loss of life and the injuries that have occurred to so many innocent people yet again. we will continue to monitor the situation. we stand ready to assist law enforcement, national security authorities this spain. our consulate -- in spain. our consulates in barcelona and our entire team are currently assisting americans in spain who are affected by these events. we ask u.s. citizens in the area to let your loved ones know you are safe. terrorists around the world should know the united states

and our allies are eau resolved -- are resolved to find you and bring you to justice. elizabeth: secretary of state rex tillerson commenting about the terror attack in barcelona. joining me now, former u.s. ambassador to the u.n., john bolton. good to see you, ambassador. >> glad to be with you. elizabeth: you know, it's striking that in an age of proliferating nuclear weapons and bioengineered toxins, something as simple as a van can kill and hurt so many. >> well, i think this is an example of what happens when you don't approach the threat of terrorism from the correct perspective. you just heard an example of it from secretary of state tillerson. although it dates back to the bush administration and the response to 9/11, to say we're going to bring them to justice. that's the wrong approach. this is not a law enforcement matter. this is a war. and we are not treating it as a war. once again, we're surprised, we're shocked, obviously, we're horrified. why should we be surprised and shocked?

if the enemy is determined to bring the battle to you and you leave it up to them to determine when and where and under what terms they're going to do it, we're going to be surprised and shocked for a long time. i think it's only when we recognize not just that we're fighting an ideology, but that we're fighting a war that the terrorists have begun against us that we're going to have any chance to succeed. and i think that goes directly to the point about weapons of mass destruction. i'm afraid we're on a policy line now even in the trump administration that will leave north korea with a nuclear weapons capability. and a substantial chemical weapons capability. and since north korea will sell anything to anybody for hard currency, it's only a matter of time, i'm afraid, before some terrorist group gets a weapon of mass destruction. we just go along -- we'll be surprised and shocked when that happens too. elizabeth: it's an important point you make. north korea, of course, has chemical weapons and neurotoxins as well.

catalan police saying there has been an explosion in a house in an incident connected to this barcelona van attack. one person has been killed. we will stay on that story for you. to your point, you should the obama administration they called -- under the obama administration, they called it workplace violence, eric holder called it that. are we in a new era, the safety of citizens comes first? have we left behind the belief that if we only stopped using the term islamic terror, say closed gitmo or stopped using to offensive cartoons, that the terror threat would recede? are we in a brand new world of how to deal with terror right now? >> well, i think the threat continues and, indeed, is expanding. it's not just the terrorists who have been trained by isis. the fact is that the ideology, the radical ideology is not diminishing, it continues to grow strong. the biggest source of finance for radical islamic terrorism since 1979 has been iran, and they have been within the past

two years enormously enriched by the united states and others in the nuclear agreement unfreezing, perhaps, up to $150 billion in assets and substantial economic deals signed by europeans in particular for new investment in oil and other productive projects there. the trump administration's not yet been willing to crater that deal and get out of it and return to trying to deal with the iranian nuclear problem. so i must say i take a pretty pessimistic view of this because we're just not serious about it. it's not enough to say terrorism is a terrible thing. you really, you have to defend yourself actively, and that doesn't mean waiting for first responders to respond to the next terrorist attack. elizabeth: i mean, yeah, you're right. the clinton administration subsidized, i think, nuclear reactors for north korea. you pointed out that. it sounds like you're a critical call, a little bit, of the trump

administration. strong leaders set the tone, and do you believe the trump administration has set the right tone in dealing with radical islamic terror? >> well, i think the white house has, but strong leaders also have to get control of the government, and i don't think the national security apparatus yet reflects the kinds of policies that we need. it's not to say that the game is over yet, but we're running out of time. you know, really we didn't elect the hillary clinton administration, but we've got now many similarities and continuities with the obama administration policy that i think we could have expected under clinton. elizabeth: ambassador bolton, always good to see you. thank you so much for coming on the show. getting back to barcelona, 13 now dead. over 100 injured in a terror attack. a van plows through a crowd of pedestrians. we will bring you the breaking news. we've got the very latest, don't go away. what did you have in mind? i don't know. $4.95 per trade? uhhh

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and life's beautiful moments.ns get between you flonase outperforms the #1 non-drowsy allergy pill. it helps block 6 key inflammatory substances that cause symptoms. pills block one and 6 is greater than 1. flonase changes everything. elizabeth: continuing our coverage of the terror attack in the heart of barcelona, leaving 13 people dead, injuring more than 100. isis taking responsibility, celebrating in social media accounts right now. ashley webster does have the new developments. ashley. >> reporter: and they're coming thick and fast, liz. i guess the headline now out of barcelona is the van driver, the person responsible for mowing down innocent people in that main pedestrian boulevard in the center of barcelona, is still at large are. spanish police talking to media late tonight say the two suspects in custody are not,

they believe, the van driver. they say those suspects -- one, a spanish national, the other is a moroccan -- but they did not say where they believe the driver is and, clearly, the manhunt dose on for that individual. the -- goes on for that individual. the other piece of news, a couple of things. the shooting dead of a suspect who went through a police checkpoint in his vehicle, police at this point say they don't believe that is attached to the van attack earlier today. now more developments of a house explosion about two hours south of barcelona in a small spanish town. an explosion that at first was thought to be a gas explosion. police and firefighters responded, and then a second explosion. we understand two people have now been reported dead from that explosion that happened p late last night. sixteen people injured including some police officers and firefighters. bottles of butane and propane were found at that scene.

now spanish police say that late night explosion, they believe, is linked to the van attack today. so there's a lot of moving parts. bottom line is two people are now in custody for this attack that left 13 dead, 100 or more people injured, but they do not believe at this point, the spanish police, that they actually have the person who was behind the wheel of that van. liz? elizabeth elizabeth ashley, thank you so much. you're going to be staying with us. thanks for that, really appreciate it. with more expert analysis, let's bring in retired lieutenant general thomas mcinerney. we're hearing isis claimed responsibility. what is your initial reaction to all of this. >> >> well, we've seen this movie before, liz. the fact is, we don't like it. we saw it in new york city on 9/11, washington, d.c., chattanooga, fort hood, orlando, san bernardino, i could go on and on, paris, nice, the whole world, and we're at it again. so we are not solving the basic

problem of defeating and deterring and dissuading this evil ideology. we need to do that. elizabeth: cnn host wolf blitzer said there will be questions raised if this barcelona terror attack involving a van crashing into a crowd of people was a copycat of what happened in charlottesville, virginia. sir, you just pointed out and we've been reporting paris saw vehicle attacks, nice, london, berlin, stockholm. why are they comparing it to charlottesville? i mean, the use of vehicles has predated that. cnn itself has reported the use of vehicles in terror attacks before what happened last weekend. why are they trying to compare it? >> it's insane. it's purely the left-wing media. they're trying to keep that built up. it was, look, it was a republican -- excuse me, it was a democratic mayor, a democratic councilman or city manager and a democratic governor. it should never have happened, liz. that was contrived.

no matter what you say, they should never have let those two groups together. and to conflate to it to the same as what happened in barcelona is idiotic. elizabeth: sir, how much has surveillance improved to get actionable information on terror plans? there's these terror franchises around the world right now. james comey, i'll be quick, former fbi director said officials worry about a diaspora of terrorists coming out of the middle east via the collapse of syria. >> that's a very valid concern and something we've got to work very closely at and get the patterns of behavior. but it goes back to the mosques and to the islamic faith ideology itself. they must be held accountable, and leaders around the world, we must call it what it is. it isn't violent extremism, it is radical islam. and our leadership in the white house, the president calls it that but not the whole team, but we as a nation must call et what it is -- call it what it is and the rest of the world must and

hold the islamic society and ideology leaders accountable. elizabeth: you know, hillary clinton used the term islamist terror in a speech in 2005. the 9/11 report uses the term islamist terror, i think seven times, a whole chapter entitled islamist terror in that report. do you think that there is a new world order on terror in the trump era, that the safety of citizens comes first? large bureaucracies are strongly influenced by the signals given by their leaders. trump has repeatedly called it islamic terror. it makes it faster to investigate and see the connection, right? >> yes, it does. and what is the ideology we're facing, it's the quran, the sayings of the prophet and sharia law. those are the things that make this an evil ideology. and the fact is, is president trump gets it, but his team -- as john bolton, ambassador john bolton just said, he doesn't have his full team as hooked up in the same direction yet. elizabeth: you know, let's show

the general the stats again. more than 19,800 people have been killed by radical islamic terror attacks since 1990. we've looked at it, more than 51,000 have been injured in islamist terror attacks. when you fold in all sorts of terrorist attacks, those numbers go up. again, the numbers that we first showed you are from 1990. the media really not reporting the totality of these numbers, sir, over the past few decades. >> exactly. and the media has been in denial, in all honesty. if it wasn't for fox news that would at least articulate the issue and have balanced points of view, no one else would be talking about it, liz. and that's one of our major problems. elizabeth: general, we love to see you, come back soon. isis is taking responsibility for the terror attack in barcelona, reportedly celebrating on social media. isis posting a statement adding that they had carried out the attack, they are celebrating right now online. we're staying on that story for

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>> the united states condemns this terror attack, and we will do whatever is necessary to help. whatever inspired today's terror attack, the united states stands ready to assist the people of spain and find and punish those responsible. on this dark day, our prayers and the prayers of all the american people are with the victims, their families and the good people of spain. elizabeth: we're continuing to follow the latest on the deadly terror attack in barcelona, spain. thirteen killed, more than 100 injured. the u.s. department of homeland security issuing a statement. quote: we will not let terrorism become the new normal. instead, such acts of violence only harden our resolve to fight

back against violent extremists, bring them to justice and dismantle their networks. joining me now, former consultant to homeland security, he is an expert on countering violent extremism. good to see you, sir. >> good to see you. elizabeth: why spain? i mean, it's been 13 years since spain has had a major terror attack. why spain? why now? >> well, spain has been a hotbed because of northern africa. we've seen a lot more traffic come close a number of times, there's been a lot of activity recently. you've seen a lot of people coming back from syria, so there's been a growth. but one thing i just want to point out, that house that exploded last night, the propane tanks that were found and that ended up exploding, you know, more than likely those propane tanks would have ended up on this truck. and if they did end occupy up on the truck, that attack that happened today would have been far more volatile. you can imagine a truck full of propane franks coming into

collision would have injured and killed so many more people. elizabeth: have you seen that as an idea for terrorists to use propane tanks in terror attacks this vehicles? >> well, look, i think they are looking to create mass carnage wherever they can, so we've seen, you know, truck bombs and car bombs used all the time. and idea of using -- and this idea of using cars and trucks and crashing into civilians is something that's been, we were seeing that across the world now. that is an easy way of creating carnage. and attaching bombs to them is really not that far from it. elizabeth: that's -- you're just bringing up the next level. i mean, you're right. they have been doing that in the middle east. let's get to the vehicle terror attack that is we know of right now, with berlin, jerusalem, nice, ohio state university, that was a vehicular attack, paris, stockholm, so it goes on and on. quebec was in there too. how do authorities stop these

vehicle attacks? there are so many innocent lives being destroyed right now. >> yeah. look, we've seen, you know, the fundamental change that we're starting to see in terms of security is as we try to harden these targets, we've seen, for example, at airports, we keep hardening the airport security. in turkey what we saw and even in the arianna grande concert we saw is rather than hitting past a security checkpoint, terrorists are hitting before the security checkpoints or where people gather at the security checkpoint because they know there are a lot of people. this particular boulevard's one of the most, you know, revered places. a lot of treuer -- tourists there, so hitting something like that which is a soft target is an easy mace to attack, and those types of targets are across and world, and there's no way to the protect them. elizabeth: thank you so much for your time, sir. good to see you. >> thank you. elizabeth: we are going to bring in the political power panel up

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elizabeth: with me now, the political panel. democrat strategist, fox news corrupter jessica tarlov and siriusxm radio host, david webb. first to you, david. here is what cnn's wolf blitzer said earlier, equating what happened in barcelona with charlottesville. watch. >> there will be questions about copycats, there will be questions about what happened in barcelona, was at all, at all a copycat version of what happened in charlottesville, virginia, even though there may be different characters, different political ambitions. they used the same killing device, a vehicle going at high speed into a group, a large

group of pedestrians. elizabeth: okay. let's break this down. cnn also has reported terrorists using vehicles to kill people. it happened in nice, berlin, quebec, jerusalem, happened in columbus, ohio, london, barcelona. why try to equate it now with charlottesvillesome. >> because they need to draw some kind of line, or at least wolf blitzer certainly does. this is shameful. it's an anchor at a major network, the same one who complains about donald trump and moral equivalency now does evil equivalency between charlottesville, the the car attack by the murder, james alex fields, to muslim terrorism that is now claimed by isis, although still developing as a story. it's evil equivalency, it's ridiculous, it's actually shameful in our business. elizabeth: what do you think, jess? >> i think it's flat out inaccurate. we've had two terrible terrorist attacks this week, one in charlottesville, one in barcelona and, obviously, the

story is still -- elizabeth: can you equate the two? >> absolutely not. you just read off a list of all the places cars have been used in -- i think it hurts cnn's credibility. you've just fed donald trump another line, another cycle that he can buy by saying look what wolfing blitzer said. it's completely different ideologies -- elizabeth: but the president would be right to point that out. >> wolf writser is hurting his -- blitzer is hurting his cause and his network's cause. just follow the story. this is an incredibly important story, and we will no doubt get back to discussing the events of this weekend and the president's response. >> what's also shameful is the gentleman that was speaking before that was drawing that very same line. so it's not just wolf blitzer. it's the people who go on and feed this at the network. but then again, the network is failing. the numbers are there for anyone to see, and that's a result of bad journalism. elizabeth: are you worried that people are being misinformed?

>> by what wolf blitzer said that? elizabeth: reporting like that. >> no, i'm not worried about that. if you look at the reporting throughout the day, i've been watching shep who's been doing an amazing job for us. i'm not worried overall. i think there are certainly a number of stories and reporters and journalists at cnn, certainly like jake tapper, who are quite objective and fair, and i think people on the right certainly feel that way about him as well. i think that was a mistake, but it doesn't detract overall -- elizabeth: i hear you. go ahead, final word. >> it's a mistake if you don't conquer the prior person. this is why i encourage people to do full context. someone was saying this, wolf followed it. as a journalist, you challenge someone if they make a statement like that. he chose to -- >> or at least -- elizabeth: hear you. jessica, david, you guys have been terrific. thanks so much. we're going to stay on this story. we will have more after the break, don't go away. pleasure businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink.

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continuing coverage of the terror attack in barcelona. we'll have a special two-hour long lou dobbs show. gerri: good evening. i'm gerri willis and you are watching making money. 13 people dead after a van plowed into a street crowded with tourists in barcelona. police say they are treating this as a terrorist attack. the driver remaining on the loose. reports isis has claimed responsibility and celebrating online. that's right. in the u.s. the attacks sent stocks plummeting. president trump condemning the