facebook at real trish regan i'd love to know what you thought of the show and including what you thought of this whole samantha b ee thing because this news just broke just as roseanne broke the other day on the show and it seems to me we ought to apply similar standards for everyone. liz claman over to you. liz: trish this is just breaking if this isn't a trade war then nothing is. guys i need you to watch stocks right now keep one eye on that and one eye on what we're telling you moments ago on the heels of the canadians announcing they will retaliate tonight against president trump 's tariffs on the imported steel which kick in at midnight tonight, the president of the eu commission confirming minutes ago the european union will slap tariffs as well on the united states steel trying to be sold in their european union block. to the canadians, canadian prime minister justin trudeau announcing and believe me the market hit the lows of the session when he announced it. our neighbor to the north, one of our closest allies is going

to slap tariffs on $16.6 billion of the u.s. steel and aluminum because america is doing the same. that's called a trade war. wall street hates this, the dow right now down 225 points, but just so you know hitting that low of 315 the moment justin trudeau came in, and said exactly that, that there will be hell to pay here, the markets cutting some of the losses now as america's biggest trading partner and closest allies react at this hour mexico is already imposed measures on american pork, fruit and cheese. mexico is the first to jump in. what will the reaction to the retaliation look like? former u.s. ambassador to germany john emerson says he knows and it's not pretty and he's here in a fox business exclusive along with the ceo of the american company that provided the scaffolding for lady liberty renovation. this is a small u.s. company in

north carolina. the ceo is getting killed on speaking fuel prices since the announcement of the tariff so what now? while team trump negotiations on trade it's talks with north korea about it's possible summit that seemed to be moving steadily. secretary of state mike pompeo has a letter in his hand from north korean dictator kim jong-un and it is to president trump. what does the letter say? what happened in the news conference just minutes ago? adam shapiro was live on the scene he's still there. will there in deed be a u.s. north korean summit after all? and warren buffett walking away from a multi-billion dollar investment in uber because the terms didn't fit his value rules now, buffet's grandson is following in the oracle's steps and principles, with a new socially conscience version of investment practices. howard buffet is here first and exclusively on fox business. why is tyson, why is kraft heinz

, why are those stock s getting hammered and charlie gasparino about to break a big story less than an hour to the closing bell let's start the countdown. and this breaking news, i just received this statement from the american petroleum institute on the trump trade policy specifically these tariffs that will kick in tonight against canada, mexico and european steel and aluminum imports here is the quote. these tariffs would hurt american energy production, american jobs, and they could raise costs on american consumer s 77% of the steel that we use for pipelines is imported , so why raise costs on consumers? that from the api, but wilbur ross the commerce secretary has said this will not hurt the united states that much. who are we to believe? well we've got to see it play out but right now wall street

believes the fears. trade war fears roaring back with stocks tumbling as much as 315 points at the lows of the session we're still down about 243 for the dow, s&p down 17, the nasdac lower by 18, markets are clearly nervous so looking at the volatility fear index it's up about 5% at this hour. remember on tuesday though it was up way higher on the worries about the italian political crisis, so yeah, slightly higher 5% here for the vix but let's check and see the individual stock groups would be reacting to president trump moving ahead with these tariffs. u.s. steel stocks specifically are mixed at the moment you would have thought these would all be speaking but they are not , however overtime since we have first heard about the steel import tariffs, they have definitely seen a nice move to the upside, u.s. steel moving higher and similar story with aluminum stocks though when it comes to alcoa, it's mixed, it's down about three-quarters of a percent but century aluminum is

higher by 3.5%, and bring in the industrials because they utilize a lot of steel. industrials are lower across-the-board talking about caterpillar, deere, honeywell, boeing and of course united technologies investors worry about the rising operating and material costs for these industrial giants. i mentioned tyson and kraft, why are they falling? significantly packaged food and meat stocks including hormel, maker of spam moving lower on mexico's retaliatory measures on everything from pork legs and cheese, there's the kraft, to apples and grapes so with all of this bringing it together what is it going to mean for u.s. businesses both big and small? well, before today's announcement that the tariffs will kick in tonight, the full weight of steel tariffs was already beginning to squeeze some american businesses left and right including our next guest, steel equipment company. the last time we heard from james howard was i think back in

april. his charlotte-based company, which manufactures among other things, steel equipment for job sites including, that's his scaffolding that he provided for the statue of liberty's massive renovation so right before marcp announced the tariffs on foreign steel, howard was paying $0.38 per pound for his raw material. now the price is jacked up 50% to $0.68 a pound. so we thought let's bring him back and bring back the owner of howard steel, james howard. sir what was your get reaction when you heard today that even after weeks of negotiation with our allies the tariffs will hit canada, mexico and europe between the eyes starting at midnight tonight. >> well i'm sitting here trying to figure out, i don't understand the purpose of the tariff causing the american companies making any money and they were dumping but if you've gained this mass tariffs to everybody it kind of loses its

purpose, if everybody is going to have retaliation in their mind, and the consumer or the end-user gets lost in a battle that makes no sense. i understand if somebody's dumping and you're going to put tariffs on everything on a leveled playing ground but now it's not based off a level playing ground. it's based off i can't use the word but you know what i'm going to say, of contest of whose going to do what, and there's nothing that shows me that it costs any more to manufacture steel today than it did three months ago. liz: exactly. and i bring that, i'm glad you just brought that up. not much has changed except the announcement back on march 1 when president trump in front of a news conference blurted out, i mean i don't think his team was even ready for this, where he suddenly blurted out okay yeah

it's going to be 25% on steel and 10% on aluminum. he was at a completely unrelated event and reporters were asking about that, march 8, and as he began to talk, that's when that came in and you're telling us that since then, steel has moved higher. what now do you think happens, now that we've got retaliation from canada starting tonight at midnight, and the united states is slapping tariffs that go into effect same exact time. what will happen with the price? can you foresee that? >> well, first off that last interview that i did with you, i think it was on a friday, but that monday i had gotten an announcement they went up another $0.02, i mean just after we had talked three days later and i'm stuck. i have no choice i have to buy the steel. you can't sell from a empty wagon so to speak so all i can do is go out to my customers or

my customer base and see if they can forecast what they think they're going to use but you create so much anxiety they don't know because they don't want to forecast and its gone up probably 45-50% right now in discrete play or even sheets, so i'm just kind of stuck and i'm not doing a job of what i want to do. i'm just sitting here trying to keep up with what do i need to stop and one place i'm in a good position, liz, i have enough capital to put the inventory in there but that doesn't mean that everybody does. liz: okay. >> which my end-user and stuff they don't have enough capital to buy stuff to sit on just to beat the price increase, but somewhere, the whole point of the thing is getting lost. the point was supposedly the

american -- liz: stop dumping, exactly and now what you're saying is it's a complete standoff. have you laid off anybody, james have you laid off any employees and will you be forced to at some point? >> no i haven't laid any employees off, but i can tell you this month, specifically this month, it's starting to slow down, but that was because where we're going nuts in march and april because everybody was buying more than what they needed just to stock up but now they've got ample supply, so we're starting to slow back down a little bit. and you create this anxiety through the market and it has a way of grabbing roots. it goes everywhere, and i mean everybody starts getting anxiet ies and i hope it doesn't get that bad again and i hope somebody will cooler minds come to prevail and think this thing

out. if you're not making money fine but you can't tell me that that wasn't making money because nothings changed for the cost to produce it. liz: listen exactly i'm glad you make this point and we bring you on because as a company that's been in business for 30 years that you've worked so hard for, things are very very nerve racking i'm sure right now. james we appreciate you coming on. >> yes, ma'am. liz: good luck. james howard of howard steel and by the way, tonight, so it's eight hours and 49 minutes before we see these tariffs kick in. no shortage of market-moving trade drama on this last trading day of the month. folks overall its been a very volatile month for stocks and we normally don't like to look in the rear view mirror we like to look forward but let me just show you a few of the big headlines that move stocks either up or down over the past 30 days so here is one from may 3. market flight as u.s. china trade talks begin in beijing with trump calling for level playing field then may 24 wall street dips after trump cancels

north korea summit and then just this past tuesday, traders coming back from a long holiday weekend to this headline. dow ends nearly 400 points lower as italy's political turmoil royals global markets yet despite all these scary headlines we're still looking to end the month on a very strong note. in fact, all three major indices on track for the best month since january, okay? so here comes the lesson to the floor show at our traders guys as we head into june what was the biggest investing lesson that we and you have learned from this month of this particular may? >> oh, well i certainly think the technology has been immune from all of this. this is a lot of geopolitically driven but technology has been able to withstand most of it and clearly, that's where the money flow is still going. we haven't received huge and if we have its been in individual stock and the other stocks are hitting all-time highs.

look at apple, microsoft, google , amazon these things are still seeing money flow and it's continued to be a decent investment. liz: phil everybody says invest in the long term so that is a lesson we should already know but what did you learn from this may? because again, tuesday we saw that 400 point drop. yesterday, we came back roaring to the upside. is there some type of message or lesson from this last 30 days? >> well you know the old saying was sell in may and go away. are you kidding me? i mean this is incredible. what are you talking about? this was some of the most exciting markets you had in a long time and it shows you there's different types of investing. sometimes for most investors the best thing to do is get in long term, and sit there and monitor conditions, but you know, for traders that liked the action this has been beautiful and you've had headlines driving new listen the type of moves that

you could have made in days back in 2008 or 2009 might have taken two years to make those kind of returns so if you have a high risk tolerance you're good with technical these are some of the best markets you'll ever get. you can trade lick a rock star, not for everybody but definitely a lot of opportunity in the month of may. maria: matt where do data points rank on the important ladder here tomorrow we get that may jobs report number and i'm just confused as to whether you put a lot of effort in that or do you, you just jump in and out depending on what the headlines are. >> well its definitely been headline-driven and social media driven so we have fundamental analysis and technical analysis and now social media analysis so these data points are something we'll keep focusing on because the fed should be focusing on that so that's what you need to look at is what is the fed going to do in june. we're expecting rate hikes. we don't get it that's more of a

concern. liz: i see watch it all and then quote nickelback, you want to trade like a rock star. apologizes to nickelback. visa and microsoft the only names in the green on the dow 30 but pfizer apparently is jumping in there and merck too, last second movers to the upside, the closing bell ringing in 45 minutes. microsoft, right there, you see it bucking the trend one day after passing google as the third biggest company as far as market cap is concerned today microsoft announcing it's extending its alliance for it's cloud-based digital transformation solution. meanwhile microsoft billionaire co-founder bill gates, for years , has famously used his money to try to solve the world 's biggest problems. now he's throwing his endorsements behind a new book that uses his socially conscience principles to make a profit and help investors, next

the name of that book and its co -author, oh, and by the way, his co-author right there, warren buffett's grandson first on fox business. don't go away. i got scar tissue there.

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liz: quick check of the dow we're down 209 points. all right if warren buffett is anything he's unbelievably disciplined when it comes to investing even if it means a short term ding to his stock. berkshire hathaway down three- quarters of a percent after it was revealed late yesterday that the famed value investor reportedly walked away from a deal to invest about $3 billion in uber ahead of the ride-sharing app's eventual ipo. the wall street reports that the king of value investing pulled the plug because he didn't like the terms and size of the deal, but that actually perfectly demonstrates how warren buffett has remained the most successful investor of our time. be disciplined and never overpay well the apple apparently doesn't fall far from the tree. buffet's grandson howard just co -authored social value invest ing but how to invest in value stocks while at the same time help to solve some of the world's biggest challenges. first on fox business, we welcome grandson of warren

buffett, howard buffett. great to see you. >> liz thanks so much foresee ing me. liz: before we get to the book this uber investment does it surprise that he thought about it and the terms weren't right so he walked away. what's his thinking on this? >> yeah, that's an interesting question i actually haven't had the opportunity to speak to him about it specifically so i don't want to put words in his mouth but generally what uber really shows us is people's kind of yearning for interconnect ever it and building something on a technology platform that enables folks to link up with each other and provide important services i think shows us how powerful that system is something we talk about in our work as well. liz: and it was probably attractive to your dad because he's told me that automated vehicles and we know uber is going that way, will eventually hurt his big insurance company, geiko, but so you would think that solar or wind might have hurt some of his berkshire energy investments but he hedges his bets he goes all into many different areas. >> yeah, he does and you know,

i do it's interesting i serve on one of the boards for toyota and automated vehicles i think are going to be an incredibly important thing in the future ment if nothing else when we tack about it from a safety perspective which is something i hold near to my heart. liz: would that count towards social investing all this move toward autonomous vehicles? >> that's a great question any time you can be improving outcomes for society we look at the vehicle deaths as incredibly high in the country i think it's definitely an important investment for advancing social good and social interest so what we talk about in terms of social value investing is really more about how different partners come together to collaborate so it's just as much about a mind set as it is how organizations work together to make the world a better place. liz: there is the perception that social investing may sound and feel really good, but where's the yield? where's the return? how do you balance picking certain companies to invest in that are socially responsible but also nobody wants to lose money. i don't care how much good these companies are doing, do they get

that return, so how do you go about picking a stock that fits into both sides of that? >> yeah, well, in a lot of cases it does take a type of discipline that you were talking about and knowing what your goal are so at first you have to have an idea for a baseline of what you want to do to make the world a better place and then look and see what attractive investments fit within that. for example, think about the work that berkshire does in energy its been incredibly lucrative for the business but in terms of wind and solar is doing a lot to make the world a better place so a combination of things. liz: so when we put up stocks that are good social investments there are also etf's that are green, for example, that work with climate change and trying to help in that situation. where do you stand on those, those baskets of names that people look at and say oh, well they must have done the research >> i think we're going to see an increasing per of opportunities goldman sachs is coming out with a new etf that focuses directly and some of the ones we've seen in the past have actually shown really impressive returns so far again making

investments in opportunities that serve society's interest at the same time as providing returns for investors. liz: bill gates has endorsed this book. he read it we were calling it gate's new book because i know bill gates to know well enough to know he doesn't endorse anything and when he does it's because he absolutely believes in it. what did you learn from him he was sort of the original guy who went out and said i'm going to put my money behind good to do good and to make good? >> yeah, i spent almost a year do, wog with the bill and melinda gates foundation back in 2007 and in part of what we did was to really focus on how do we think about high-quality impact, right? so what performance measures do we put behind the evaluation that we do for grants or financial allocations and that turned into an entire methodology that we have outlin ed in the book so i had the opportunity not only to learn directly from amazing people that work there but then to apply that work to what we've outlined in social value investing investing. liz: the book is called social value investing and do you know what? you don't want to put your money

behind something that isn't good quality and does right for the planet and for the people so read this and you'll learn how thank you so much. he teaches at columbia university too, i bet it's a popular class. howard buffett, thank you. dow is down 222 points we are coming right back. brighthouse financial allow you to take advantage of growth opportunities... with a level of protection in down markets. so you can be less concerned about your retirement savings. talk with your advisor about shield annuities from brighthouse financial- established by metlife. where we're changing withs? contemporary make-overs. then, use the ultimate power handshake, the upper hander with a double palm grab. who has the upper hand now? start winning today. book now at lq.com.

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>> there is no daylight between the south koreans the japanese and the united states with respect to our approach to how we resolve this issue with respect to north korea. i've spoken to my counterparts there, i've spoken to president moon. we understand their concerns. we understand the risks that could be posed to them, and an agreement that we reach will provide an outcome that each of those countries can sign on to as well. liz: secretary of state mike pompeo speaking to the press in

the last hour after meeting today with north korea's general will they or won't they? will we have a singapore meeting between the u.s. and north korea , a denuclearization summit state department officials will only say progress is being made, but will president trump and kim jong-un be sitting at a table? are they even deciding the size or the shape of the table? that's always a big thing at these summits what should the shape of the table be. adam shapiro was right there joining us live and what about this letter that mike pompeo has in his hand to bring from kim jong-un to the president? adam: well that letter is going to be delivered to president trump tomorrow in person. secretary of state mike pompeo will accompany kim with the letter and the vice chairman of north korea whose been negotiat ing with mr. pompeo about potential summit june 12. let me repeat some of the stuff

you just said liz because it bears repeating that everyone understands that the administration hopes the summit takes place on june 12 and the white house has said that the president if the summit does take place would still go to the g7 and would then go to singapore for the summit but there's still a lot to do and that was one of the things that came out of the meetings today which ended about two hours early the secretary of state said they went well and made progress. now the sound bite you played going into our discussion was the secretary responding to a question i'd asked him about the negotiation and whether the united states was consulting with south korea and japan, our asian allies, and whether or not the united states was concerned if this deal to eventually perhaps denuclearize the korean peninsula would lead to some kind of vacuum into which the chinese could politically economically maybe military move because if the united states is part of a deal leave south korea that's a concern to our allies so i followed up in my questions

to the secretary of state and here is what he said. >> the chinese are moving all around the world today let's be shear. the risk of that is real, everywhere not just in this particular space. we're keenly aware of it and i am confident the things we're talking about with respect to north korea will not enhance the risk of that to any significant degree. we wouldn't do that to the south koreans or the japanese two of our most important allies in the region. adam: liz, this one last thing the secretary pointed out during his press conference with us, he said that while both leaders hope to enter into a summit on june 12, it would be nothing short of tragic to let this opportunity go to waste. back to you. liz: we're watching it adam thank you very much. i want to know what's in that letter. i guess we'll maybe find out tomorrow. in the meantime u.s. companies bracing for impact. the closing bell we're 28 minutes away still a lot of red on the screen here,

harley-davidson ticker symbol ho g may need to tighten up its helmet straps because its bikes could have targets on their handle bars. so could kentucky bourbon. that's if president trump sticks to his steel tariff threats which are now eight hours and 28 minutes away from kicking in against canada, the european union and mexico. former u.s. ambassador to germany john emerson here exclusively on which other industries should watch out for repercussions in the trade tit for tat that now looks more and more like an out right war. countdown is coming right back. alerts -- wouldn't you like one from the market when it might be time to buy or sell? with fidelity's real-time analytics, you'll get clear, actionable alerts about potential investment opportunities in real time. fidelity. open an account today.

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liz: we are just getting this breaking news in from the u.s. chamber of commerce. they have just released a statement that includes that puts a number on how many jobs

will be threatened when those tariffs go into effect tonight. according to the top official, that's tom donahue, he's the head of the chamber of commerce representing thousands of u.s. businesses, he says these trump trade policies will ham string the u.s.' robust economic growth and will threaten here it is as many as 2.6 million u.s. jobs. let us bring in the former u.s. ambassador to germany john emerson because the european union is already saying do you know what? we will not let the unjust it fridayable and unjustified u.s. measures go unanswered. they've already put a number on there's $7.5 billion worth of tariffs will be slapped on u.s.. canada is also already putting in levies because the united states put in levies on our top allies. what's your first reaction to all of this right now? >> well, i think it's going to be a long and challenging environment for our trade

negotiators. i guess three thoughts. number one, the steel and aluminum tariffs were essentially in posed because of concerns we've had as a result of china's dumping on steel on global markets there by depressing prices making it hard for high-wage economies like ours to compete. this doesn't impact china at all we get less than 2% of our steel and aluminum from china and perhaps working with our allies to push hard against china might be a better way to address that. secondly, the inclusion of mexico and canada who were exempted so long as the nafta negotiations were ongoing is certainly a signal that the administration doesn't think that nafta renegotiation is going to be concluded any time soon and third, you have to also consider not just the european reaction to this, but the fact that the administration is also threatened to impose secondary

sanctions on companies that continue to do business with iran. liz: right. >> so the european union is also dealing with that as well, so it's a very complicated three dimensional chess board right now on trade. liz: would you call it a war? >> no, i would not, and the reason is if you look at the vast amount of trade that goes on between the united states and the eu, that goes on in the nafta zone, and let's not forget about the 25 billion or $50 billion of tariffs that have been itemized for china the fact of the matter is that's still maybe adds up to less than 15% of the overall trading relationship. it could develop into a war but i think at this point, you'd have to say that it's a pretty healthy skirmish maybe slightly worse than that. liz: okay, i don't know, because you've got a lot of people very anxious. the market certainly doesn't

like it the dow is down 207 points. with the chamber of commerce putting this finer point of 2.6 million jobs, it says are now threatened by these tariffs, do you believe that? >> well, i have no idea how you come up with these kinds of numbers but here is the reality. liz: maybe from the george bush tariffs that were kicked in back in the early 2000 where a lot of jobs were lost and they had reverse them rather quickly. >> no question about that and the reality is that we have benefited enormously from the rules-based trading environment that was really has been put in place over the course of the last 70 years since the end of the second world war. we've benefited enormously. now we may have a trade deficit on certain goods and services or mostly on goods. on services and some of these trading relationships we have,

we're doing pretty well and we have an investment surplus when it comes to billions of dollars that are invested by european companies and in fact by asian companies, in the united states. bmw, for instance, now makes more cars -- liz: in the u.s.. >> in south carolina than it does in bavaria. liz: and i have been, you having been the ambassador to germany i've been to vance, alabama, where mercedes benz years ago opened the suv plant and has employed a lot of people, so why do you think that we're going so hard and tough against our allies who actually employ united states workers here in this country? >> well i think if you were to ask the president why he got elected he'd tell you two things the wall, which is effectively a metaphor for being tough on immigration and he would tell

you his position on trade which by the way wasn't that different from bernie sanders' position on trade and so i think he feels this is a core issue for him politically and he needs to push and push hard and that's part of what's happening, but i think the danger of course is all these unintended consequences of that and we may well see that as reflected in the chamber of commerce report. liz: well, which is just out and folks we were the first to bring it to you so we're keeping this very close eye on what's going on with all of this and how the markets are reacting and we started to go back down a bit lower than before that headline was hit. john emerson great to see you sir thank you very much. >> thanks so much, my pleasure. liz: we need you to watch all the way through here because at the top of the hour, white house national trade council director peter navarro who has been very hawkish and has pushed the president on this tariff ideal though the president was already there, he will join david and melissa after the bell, they are

going to ask him all the questions you want asked so make sure to stay tuned for that. a recipe for pardon? the closing bell ringing in 17 minutes, donald trump looking to pardon wall street trader turned homemaker and entertainment powerhouse martha stuart, but is there more to his motive behind this eye brow raising move? charlie gasparino has the real driving force behind the martha stuart pardon. charlie breaks it, next. hi, i'm bob harper,

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liz: president trump appears to be going on a pardon spree. he is looking to pardon martha stuart among others, and former illinois governor rod blagojevich. charlie gasparino knows the martha stuart case inside out

let's focus on that one first. charlie: yeah, i don't know much about rod blagojevich other than i think he appeared on celebrity apprentice so maybe trump likes him from that right? liz: yeah, he's trying to sell the seat the political seat. charlie: martha stuart was really interesting because she didn't quite get nailed for insider trading. she got nailed for lying about it and i'm telling you liz you can weigh in on this please do. i don't think she wants this thing out there. i wonder like -- liz: probably like no, i'm fine. i'm good. charlie: she's now doing the cooking channel i notice and she's done other things her company martha stuart omnimedia which she was ceo when this whole insider trading stuff went down is gone, its been sold it imploded didn't do very well i think they sold it for not much money, so but she's making kind of a corporate comeback now on various issues, and what's going to happen now is that -- liz: attention will be paid. charlie: we're looking at it

particularly me because i covered this with a guy named jerry markon. we covered this every step of the way. comey when he was u.s. attorney for the 7th district brought the case. martha stuart traded shares before corporate event. it was shares of inclone, a biotech company that her friend, sam waxal owned and it looked like when the sec looked at all of the trading patterns it was all these friends including sam waxal himself who traded stocks before this big event which imploded the stock so they made a few bucks on it. she was one of the people that traded it. now here is where it got interesting. sec investigates, u.s. attorney investigates, and she comes up with a real weird story about why she traded. she said she had some pre- existing sell order when she didn't obviously. she basically had no pre- existing sell order with the brokerage firm. she had a piece of paper that said sell at, like it was actually a different color ink than all of the other writing.

liz: people. charlie: so it was so obvious she made it up and obvious to me sitting in the courtroom, obvious to the jury she's found guilty of obstruction and lying. now the whole question was did she do insider trading? the sec said she did on a civil basis just so you know. they said she actually settled later with the sec with denying wrongdoing and remember she's a ceo. the u.s. attorney thought just based on the circumstances of how she sold it, sold the stock, it didn't quite make the criminal case for inside trading liz: but charlie she served her time. charlie: she serves like seven months. liz: she went to prison. she didn't pay off anybody there was nothing she could do. charlie: there was nothing to pay off. liz: she went. but you know how wealthy people can sometimes -- charlie: i was on that jury the judge threw some of the counts out. the jury would have convicted her of anything. liz: so she went and served her time. charlie: and she was guilty. liz: and she's probably not wanting that brought up. charlie: here is why because the details are so messy and listen

this all comes down to this, i believe this is all james comey brought the case, president trump hates james comey. martha stuart may have a revived reputation, but what's going to happen here is we're going to go through this crazy case of hers why she sold the stock when she did. she obviously got a tip from her broker right? liz: what does she get out of it if he pardons her. what can she now do if he pardon s her she couldn't before. charlie: if you're a convicted, i believe it was a felony, my guess is you probably can't be a ceo of a public company. remember she was -- liz: what about voting? charlie: that's a good question. maybe she can vote now, but i think the problem with him pardoning her is that we should be holding ceo's of companies to certain standards and public companies they should not be telling fibs or exaggerating or lying. she was caught as a ceo of a company not like some little old lady someone walked up to with a

microphone. she was caught in a big time lie liz: right. i mean the pardon of the african american boxer who was so unfairly treated and that was a pardon, but i'm all for that. charlie: right by the way they created a law called the "man act" because of jack johnson if you take a prostitute across state lines they considered it white slavery it was like just so you know it was like a big thing back in the day and i could see that but which then jack johnson faced immense racism. i'm telling you that martha stuart went before federal investigators and blew so much smoke. now maybe that earns her credits in donald trump land, a guy that makes up half the stuff he tells us every day but i'm telling you -- liz: and she was an opponent of james comey. charlie: maybe earns her points because she doesn't like because james comey went after her but when you justify ceo's acting

the way she acted you're setting a really bad standard in this country and someone who covered this case from top to bottom i'm telling you, it was, this was not martha stuart's finest hour. i don't want to see an older woman go to jail. that's horrible but she did what she did. i think she went for seven months you'll have to check and went to a place known as camp cupcake i believe. >> [laughter] liz: but prison is prison. charlie: but they called it camp cupcake. it's a minimum security. liz: but all is better she's got her show with snoop dog. closing bell ringing in about six minutes, the major averages not looking so hot right now. they got a bit of a fever, in the red down 240 points for the dow, but there is one index where your money may be immune to these trade troubles. when it comes to burning up steel and relationships with allies and when it comes to foreign steel, small caps bringing big returns to your

politician. we've got some ideas from the top watcher, next. . .

liz, about eight hours away. tariffs on for win steel and aluminum kick on on allies. who is doing well? russell 2000. small and mid-cap index having best month since month of 2016. it is up about 20% this year. it has been the best performing index since president trump first announced tariffs would be coming. is this trade war proof, tariff agnostic, so to speak? you have had a great year performance, have you not? what are you up? >> one-year return is up something like 29%, for the last 12 months. liz: oh, my goodness. >> a lot of our viewers are

thinking i could have had a v8. could have been in the hodges small cap fun. what is in it? >> small-cap fund, eclectic approach. looking at individual companies. we like to think of ourselves as private equity investors in the public market. we've been focusing on the areas of the market where we see greatest earnings improvement. when you look at russell a lot of people think as russell being very much overvalued, look on p-multiple versus s&p 500. when you take out all companies that doesn't make money, all high flying biotech stocks and utilities traded over 20 times earnings, a lot of industrials, consumer cyclicals, those areas really represent values in these markets. liz: coming up on the closing bell, eric. we're coming up eight hours away tariffs kick in. why will not the russell be affected? >> i think the russell will be affected in some areas.

probably less so than the broader market. there will be winners and losers from the actions. [closing bell rings] small cap steel stocks will be beneficiaries? liz: thank you very much. a rick hodges, small-cap fund. we have big trade talk on "after the bell." david: another day, another swing in stocks. back in the red now, dow closing down 251 points. all major averages ending lower for the day but higher for the second month in a row. hi, everybody i'm david asman. melissa: i'm melissa francis. this is "after the bell." we have more on big market movers. here is what else we're covering in this very busy hour. time's up. u.s. exemptions on steel and aluminum tariffs for europe and mexico and canada have now expired. reaction pouring in from across the globe. here at home with some of our closest trade partners threatening retaliation. the u.s. chamber of commerce now warning these tariffs will threaten millions of