again people being told to leave the immediate area but where do they go in this covid-19 era? many are very leery of going to shelters of any sort. we'll see. charles payne on that. much more. hey, charles. charles: neil, thank you very much. good afternoon, everyone. i'm charles payne. this is "making money." breaking right now the major incan sees are hovering around all-time highs the shakeup in the dow jones industrial average ironically hurting it today but it speaks to the new economy versus the old. coming up what other names should be add towed the index and perhaps to your portfolio. psychological hurdle derailing rally attempt in value stocks. i will share with you how i think the powell epiphany came about, what it means for the society at large. today's rnc is set to focus on the cancel culture featuring famous faces. i will be joined by one of

yesterday's speakers, maryland congressional candidate, kim klacik she is an internet superstar. all that on "making money." charles: i think something profound happened to jer role powell during the two weeks when the federal reserve hiked rates, december 20th, 2019. it was the ninth interest rate hike of 2015 after essentially the fed went for seven years to zero percent. powell was driven to some event days before christmas and hit a big pothole. as the driver looked to work out the flat tire, he saw a homeless woman panhandling money from complete strangers. he thought about his policies about runaway inflation that had yet to materialize.

it was the old federal reserve playbook to slowdown the economy, something that hadn't reached the economy. january 4th, powell made comments not mention the plight of the women, he admitted to a epiphany. he changed course in history. i think he changed the course of the federal reserve, saying a strong jobs market, rising inflation does not rise concerns or raise concerns to high inflation. the fed did about-face cut rates three times in 2019. this year the covid-19 economy shut down the economy, with two massive rate cuts back in march, taking a round-trip to the lower number back in december of 2015. the federal reserve must present sort of venture, this veneer, at least the chairman this veneer of calm, whenever he or she is anxious or scared to death. not other mem benches the fed. most notably fed president john williams pounding the table about the deflationary crisis, although the fed prefers to call

it a lack of inflation. late in the day news broke that jerome powell, is set to deliver a profoundly consequential speech at jackson hole on thursday this is the virtual version of it, with the aim to allow inflation to rise above the target for a long period of time. it is being compared to the dramatic efforts from paul volcker to arrest inflation in the early 1980s. this time it is set to spark inflation or better yet stave off deflation. it takes several dots to see how homeless woman with children will benefit from lower rates. but they have a better chance in an economy driven by investment and confidence in the stock market. certainly better than the alternative. i want to get to the perspective from two brilliant, two of the most thoughtful market pros come on the show from time to time. bny mellon chief investment strategist, alicia levine and divine capital dani hughes.

this powell fed gets a lot of grief from a lost folks because they're pumping up assets. there is concern from the fed there is deflation out there. this is what roiled the global economy during the great depression, but once it starts it is hard to stop. is it justified. >> we'll while would-be hearing about starting on thursday that inflation has been real slow to get to the 2% fed target. in part what you spoke about, charles. the fed was always raising rates because inflation would get there but never got it. if they let inflation rise above 2%. better for the economy. cheaper credit means businesses can borrow. and that will also ultimately help the person on the street that you just spoke about. better business, better economy, good for everybody. charles: right. you know, dani, you listen to

jerome powell, some other members of the fed, we know they have a dual mandate with employment and inflation but it feels like they have this new-found mission to perhaps help a homeless woman and her children. i'm not sure fed policy can do it, it sounds like powell will do something very dramatic on thursday? >> well, that is what we're hearing, charles. his profoundly consequential speech will likely aim to juice inflation as alicia said and keep rates anchored at or near zero to throw inflation number out the door to spur growth. but there is a lot of worry that we'll be like japan which fought a 30 year battle with inflation and slow growth. they haven't seen a new high since 1989. they have a low return environment. what i am concerned this creates a debt trap. the ones who need it least like corporations, issuing debt and

liquidity. by no means encourages banks and financial institutions to lend to the middle class, to the small businesses that have been whacked so hard by this pandemic. charles: you know, danny, i want to extend my thesis on the social ills and what the fed may think they can do with this. i think if president biden would have a mary daily lead the fed, if she wasn't in charge of the fed, they may even buy student loan debt, i could see a progressive fed. could that be possible? >> i think anything is possible. we learned this fed was going to possibly buy etfs and stocks but the unintend consequences of the fed mandate to create those settled financial markets which is what we want, may make the economy seem better than it is. so for example, vehicles and office space, we're starting to consider as a society they're not really a premium anymore.

how do we pivot and work on a world likely to emerge? i think that what daley message is, it is proactive, it is forward thinking. i think there's a place for that going forward. charles: alicia, you know, i certainly not farfetched considering the efforts to bail out big banks and big businesses. we know what is in the political air. i don't think it would be too farfetched to have a joe biden presidency give the green light to the federal reserve to start doing things like buying student debt. would you have opposition to that? >> so i think what dnai said is really true. we were all shocked this year when the fed started buying corporate credit and high yield and thought about buying equities, etfs as well. this was all a red line we never thought was going to cross. will remind everybody that there is a divide between the political and the fed and it is not easily crossed and we

definitely have seen some resistance to some of the desires of the administration this time and i suspect you will see it next time as well. charles: right. >> i don't think it will be a simple straight line but it is clear that the fed is going to places that it has never gone before. charles: well, certainly has and i think it is going to keep lurching in that direction. now for the other big story that broke out after the close today, the shakeup of the dow jones industrial average. three names going in, three names going out. some are shocking but not really surprising per se. a lot of focus on need for more tech after apple split which obviously gives it less influence and the index but kicking exxon out almost after a century you know scores the storyline. i want to bring in on the conversation, capital wealth chief planning strategist jeff saut. jeff, how smart is this move? should it have happened a long time ago. >> charles, they changed the

components of the dow off and on 50 years i've been in the business. i have keep getting the question, you're one of the few people that interprets dow theory, does this impact dow theory. the fact of the matter it hadn't at least thus far. there was a dow signal sell december 23rd in 1999. buy signal in june of. there was a dow theory killer in december of '07. charles: jeff, to that point. i realized it was seven years they made the last changes. as far as this index being quote-unquote the market or a good reflex of the overall market, think about it, the s&p, they made a brilliant move. they created the communication services sector a couple years ago. so you have these megacap names like google, facebook, netflix. should the dow include something like that to be more reflective where society is? >> yeah. i think it should actually. i think google should be included but when you talk with professionals like you and me. we don't really reference the dow. we reference the s&p 500 because

it is much more representative of the overall market. charles: sure. hold on one second, jeff. i want to bring back dani and alicia. get your theory on the and jeff concurs, maybe something from the new communications services sector should be added as well? >> when you take a look at the dow 30, which is 30 stocks, really the only communications name that jumps out at you is verizon. you could look at apple. could you look at microsoft. both are on the communications company. companies that we consider to be communication services like facebook and google are on there. the dow is always quoted. so is the s&p but the s&p is really tracking so much more assets, 11 trillion versus the dow's 31 billion. charles: right. >> so great big divide between these two indexes.

charles: on that note, alicia, i do believe that if the dow gets to new highs, when it goes positive, everybody sitting at home who don't necessarily watch financial tv will see that and as it approaches new highs i think the individual investor will become more bullish. your thoughts? >> i definitely think that there are two things that are really dry powder for today's market if there are new highs. the first is that most flows have gone into the bond market and not equity market by a factor of five to one. there is where people can get the cash from. the second thing, close to five trillion dollars in cash sitting on the sidelines. so that is where you get your dry powder from. i do think that as markets move higher and get through the wall of worry, and as case count in the u.s. isp dr.ing, let's not forget that, we're getting improvement in covid cases over the last four weeks on a moving average. if cyclicals are going to start moving, the real economy stocks are going to start moving and

you will bring people in as they begin to feel better as well. charles: all right. i don't have a lot of time but i want to go around the horn here. go back to you, jeff. some. things you're looking at, the yield curve is one thing of the at least the 10-year-year-old, i love the action there. we're talking about bringing money off the sidelines. what do you think makes that happen and where should people be looking, jeff? >> in the long run the stock market is all about earnings. in the short term, intermediate, fear, hope, greed loosely connected to the business cycle. three or four weeks ago i said on your show i think equity markets are getting ready to go vertical. that is what happened. i think we'll see a short-term trading top next week within the construct of a secular bull market that has another five to seven years left in it. charles: i pulled up a chart yesterday. i saw the spike, it said the jeff vertical. you did call it. dani, what do you like here as the vertical gets more vertical

before we get a short-term top? >> there is a lot of names easy to like in the market still. i would bring up at&t. great dividend payer. i love their cash flows. they're the kind of company in very unsure environment they will continue to drive cash. they might be a great addition to the dow as well. charles: all right. let's leave it there. jeff, alicia, dani, i love these thoughtful conversations. what the fed does, it helps assets, they're trying to do something maybe beyond their reach that will drive policy for a long time. appreciate it. despite new thinking from top economists and health officials joe biden says he is more than willing to shut down the economy to stop the virus if he is elected. peter morici we'll ask him about the ripple effects that would have? she is indeed a rising star in the republican party. next, maryland congressional

candidate kim klacik debut and her bigger internet view. she is a superstar. we'll be right back. >> the democrats controlled this part of baltimore city fore50 years. they have run this beautiful place into the ground. we want a chance to get ahead, not just get by. that is what president trump promised. that is what president trump delivers.

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♪. >> it seems as if the democrats no longer view the government's job as protecting honest citizens from criminals but rather protecting criminals from honest citizens. >> it is almost like this election is shaping up to be church, work, school, versus rioting looting and vandalism. charles: well the first night speakers at rnc painting a picture of disarray and destruction if joe biden were to become president. the message resonating with voters fearing for their safety amid a spike in crime amid big cities. maryland congressional candidate kim klacik joins me. this is one of your essential themes since you decided to run for office and it's a message really driven home with that extraordinary video that debuted a couple weeks ago. let's go back again to what made you want to run in terms of

just, the erosion of great american city, baltimore and now, we're seeing other cities facing the same issues? >> absolutely. thank you for having me, first of all, charles, i appreciate it. in many cities, it is not unique to baltimore like you're saying, we see a lack of law and order, number one, and number two, a lot of crime and violence come from the survival course so many people are on within these communities. you know, baltimore city we have crime, violence. the homicide rate is 10 times the national average. the poverty rate is 20%. we have a bad education system. so you know, with my platform i talk about school choice which a lot of parents in the west baltimore area, which you see in my videos are for. we talk about law and order. that is why it was so important for me to add in that campaign ad that there were a lot of people on the ground just do not support defunding the police. we are down police officers right now in the city. we probably need more funding

because we need to recruit more and train more. i say, it is, the left if they have a problem with the way police officers are trained today, you would have to need more funding to better train them. so to me, these progressive policies that we seem to be taking control of the left's narrative, makes no sense at all, hopefully with my run i can bring some sense of normalcy. charles: right. you know, unfortunately, you know, to your point with the training, particularly when it comes to arresting and detaining i think that is where there is a real serious issue and then of course, the aftermath of these things. it is so interesting because you do point to the democrats. you spoke about this last night and how they have been running these big cities for decades. i want to run a little bit of that with the audience, then come back to you. >> the democrats have controlled this part of baltimore city for over 50 years. they have run this beautiful place right into the ground. abandoned buildings, liquor stores on every corner, drug

addicts, guns on the street, that is the norm in many neighborhoods. sadly the same cycle of decay exists in many democrat run cities. the democrats still assume black people will vote for them. charles: i want to talk about the cycle because we're seeing cities come back from the brink that have been doing very well. they slowly fade. good example, in new york city, one day in july, 50 windows on one line of trains were smashed. then a week later, 60 windows were smashed, right? this is how it begins, the cycle begins. how do you intervene? your platform, talk about school choice and other things. how else can we intervene to make sure cities don't crumble? i believe that is the proverbial snowball boulder and can happen overnight? >> absolutely. people that know anything about baltimore city, you know that the city was once a manufacturing powerhouse, right? so i talk a lot about the fact that we had to rely on other countries for ppe during the coronavirus lockdown.

we can bring so much more, especially that billion dollar medical equipment industry in through the baltimore port, considering we have the second largest port in the country and it is underutilized. we see connecticut they use their very well. they have submarines. they are doing wind energy. things that we could do but unfortunately you know, we have people in office don't do anything. they don't make it any better for people around them. charles: right. >> many federal funds come into the area in 2015 after the riots. president obama and elijah cummings secured millions of dollars for the penn north corridor but you wouldn't know that by looking at my campaign ad. that is where i was. i was in the penn north corridor in 2020. so you know, there is a lot that we can do. just a matter of someone wanting to do it. we've been under one party rule for over 50 years and that has devastated the city. charles: yeah. interest is no doubt about it. kim, you're certainly becoming a superstar. i put a lot of people on, blew up and forgot about me.

hope you don't do the same thing [laughter] >> i will never do that. never. charles: good luck with everything. you're doing a great job. we'll see you again real soon. thanks. >> thanks, charles. charles: tune into fox business for complete rnc coverage. it all starts tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. eastern time hosted by yours truly. followed by neil cavuto at 9:00 p.m. you do not want to miss it. meanwhile president trump is using the rnc to warn of the dangers of joe biden's willingness to lock down the entire country if he is elected. the economic effects and other effects of the next lockdown. plus the rnc kicking off a big event to appeal to black and brown voters last night but who knew that the media could be so mean or angry about it. ♪ for what you need? given my unique lifestyle, that'd be perfect! let me grab a pen and some paper. know what? i'm gonna switch now. just need my desk...

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find a stock basedtech. on your interests or what's trending. get real-time insights in your customized view of the market. it's smarter trading technology for smarter trading decisions. fidelity. ♪. >> i would be prepared to do whatever it takes to save lives. >> if the scientists say shut it down? >> i would shut it down. i would listen to the

scientists. charles: democrat presidential nominee joe biden saying he is willing to do anything, including shutting down the entire country to stop coronavirus but president trump says, shutdowns hurt the chance of a full recovery. now according to the imf, global out put is on track to fall 5% this year, far worse than during the financial crisis with more than 13 million jobs lost in the united states alone. so who is right on this lockdown debate? we thought we would ask university of maryland economist, peter morici. peter, more and more articles coming out from academics, economists, so forth, from the medical field, from all different areas, suggesting while it was in the heat of moment probably the right thing to do, if we're ever faced with the same circumstances we were back in february, march, it would be huge mistake to shut down, lockdown the entire economy. your thoughts? >> well that's clear. by locking down the entire economy we stilted the education of many young people. it led to a lot of emotional

problems. a lot of elderly simply died because of it and millions and millions of jobs, probably some 15 million jobs have been permanently destroyed. we haven't seen seen all the layoffs yet. i think it is folly to say i would listen to the scientists and say i would lock down the economy. apparently the computer is not working in the basement or internet is not coming in. this is coming over the transom in "the wall street journal" yesterday. joe, do you read? charles: he does, i think it is called, talking points and they dust them off because most of them are pretty old. but to that point, we've got an election though where it is so interesting because the democrats had their chance last week and they really did not focus on their plan per se, right? all about joe biden being a decent person. the part where he met with the kid with the stuttering problem, touches everyone. those kind of things you feel. when it comes down to the actual

economy, president trump still has a pretty significant lead over joe biden. have you had a chance to look at both their policies including potential tax hikes to determine which might be better for this economy, particularly with the covid-19 still in the background? >> well being a dismal scientist i'm compelled to read both economic platforms which i have done and joe biden's platform is a return to the obama era on steroids and we know that delivered very slow growth, low participation rate, not a lot of jobs. my feeling is if we look at the trump record until the covid hit, democrats would like to blame him for it, but it is not true, he was accomplishing great progress. for example, during the trump recovery, blacks and women and other minorities were actually making real, tangible progress. they were catching up. whereas during the obama years, with all of his regulation and affirmative action and so forth, those policies have been failing for two generations. now he wants to bring them back

and redouble them. you know, the agenda of progress serves is really to dig up old failed policies of the past. i don't know why we don't cut to the chase and say, what is the economic plan in bulgaria in 19680, let's make that america in 2020? charles: maybe we'll do -- >> you look to joe biden, he says which way is the wind blowing? that is the way his policies point but when you spend all your time in the basement listening to aoc and bernie sanders, that is what you get. charles: that's what you get. peter, thank you very much, my friend. another issue taking center stage at the rnc is race. several supporters of color, even a democrat coming out last night to president trump's defense, particularly against claims of racism. take a listen. >> it hurt my soul to hear the terrible names people called donald. the worst one is racist. i take it as a personal insult that people would think i have

had a 37-year friendship with a racist. >> president trump built the most inclusive economy ever. >> on issue after issue, in just a single term he destroyed these negative forces that have victimized the black community. >> in much of the democratic party it is now fashionable to say that america is racist. that is a lie. charles: joining me now on this black voices for trump co-chair stacy washington. now, stacy, one thing we do know, no matter who the republican has been in my lifetime they were always branded a racist, no matter who it was. romney, mccain, whoever it was, ronald reagan, so you're going to get that label no matter what, but they have really laid it on thick to the past 3 1/2 years, where the point many people accept, oh, yeah, donald trump is a racist. so watching last night there were a few times when i was really touched.

herschel walker thing, that herschel walker would be taking president trump's children to an amusement park what kind of relationship, friend ship is that, black or white? there is only four or five people i would let take my kids to a movie, let alone a amusement park, you know what i mean, stacy? >> charles, you make an excellent point there, when we talk about friendship, transcending race and color where you share things in common with everyone, there are very few people you would entrust with your precious children to go to a amusement park, people getting lost, interact with strangers yet that is the relationship herschel was speaking about having with president trump. 27 years i think he said. this is a real friendship. president trump is like that with many, many people regardless of their ethnic background. he has longstanding friendships and relationships with many peep, including people of color. i spent time with the president at the white house. i have actually had interactions, emails, personal

interactions with people who call themselves white supremacist. i can tell you charles, there is a huge difference between a white sue very much sift and anything approaching the relationship president trump has had with people, not just people he reacted with on minimal basis like myself. if he were truly a white supremacist, is awful white sue very much sift. he doesn't know how it is done. would a white supremacist have black speakers you showcased. kimberly klacik. or senator tim scott. would tim scott work with racist? would a racist open 17 community centers across the country in battleground states? would he ask for the black vote? it is not the truth and they know it. that is all they have got, charles. charles: any 70 some odd-year-old white person can any kind of thing where they were incentive to race, claims of racism. joe biden has his share of

baggage. i think how people evolve in life that matters more than any of that stuff. the reason i'm bringing that up, is last night, cnn's chris cuomo said senator tim scott was carrying president trump's water. for me those are fighting words. i wonder why it is okay for the racist dog whistles when the person being attacked a black or brown conservative? why is it okay to be racist toward them, particularly when it is the mainstream media? >> so you know, charles, i experienced this on twitter today where i was told that you know, i am an uncle tom. i should own it because i'm supporting president trump, how can i openly support a white supremacist and a racist? this goes to the mainstream media giving this get-out-of-jail-free card to liberals. they feel like they're not taking one for the team. they have ownership over blacks. joe biden as much as said that when he said you ain't black if you're not voting for me. charles: right. >> he said there was no diversity of thought among black people. so the thoughts that they have

about blacks are inherently racist and limiting yet they toss that accusation against us. charles, when you hear these things, whatever they're accusing the republicans of usually what they're guilty of. they're accused of locking black people up in cities with poor schools and high tax base, not republicans. they're responsible for the carnage we're seeing. blacks dying, not having socioeconomic opportunities as white. they're, the answer to give president trump a chance. he already proven he can bring every group out into the job market. charles: very to leave it there. >> and he will do it again. charles: i always appreciate pure passion on these topics. i'm glad you came to share the time with us. but we ran out of time. stacy, we'll see you again real soon. thank you very much, my friend. the pandemic is not slowing down the ipo fever, folks. we have names that are about to flood this market. the question is which ones should you get in on? we'll be right back

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♪. charles: april fever, folks. ipos are flooding the market. cheryl casone joins me. they're rockin', cheryl. reporter: companies like asana a work management platform. they have a direct listing on the nyse. 102.6 million in revenue in physical 2020. 80% jump year-over-year. snowflake, that is crowd data platform, on the nyse with ticker symbol snowy i love the price determined later. tortoise acquisition filed their preliminary prospectus, 250 million-dollar ipo. 25 million units, 10 bucks per share. palantir might be filing today actually. that listing would be september 24th. a lot of mixed reports about it.

they could lock up 80% of their shares. unity development under the nyse under ticker u. 80% of mobile games they say use their platform that is big. door dash is planning to go public in november and december. that is according to bloomberg. they have a 400 million-dollar funding round in june. their competitors a little tight though, grubhub, uber eats, instacart, amazon fresh. it's a crowded market. other names making waves in the ipo game, luminar and xpang motors. charles: a lot there, cheryl, thank you. joining me bellpointe chief strategist david nelson. it has been a remarkable year for ipos. ipos last year that blew up this year like zoom. monster names that cheryl mentioned on the docket. any you're watching you should

pay close attention to? >> the two catch my eye, snowflake. cloud valuations are very high. when you're seller you're looking for liquidity event this is time to sell when market are at all-time high. nobody cares the company are making money. half the names in cloud don't make money on gaap earnings basis. the other one was door dash. certainly right place, right time, post-covid world. food deliveries are hot. this company will be hot like cheryl said. this will be 16 billion-dollar valuation. nobody wants to be the airbnb leave it on the table. it will be very tough for them. their valuation was less than half of what it was couple years ago. charles: snowflake, my inner "beavis and butt-head" comes out. snowflake, heh, heh. existing home sales last week, housing boom obviously in full force. you happen to like a name i think associated with construction and home building, united rentals. is this one name we could buy

and own with some exposure to this booming housing market? >> it certainly helps. it is not just the housing market. you go down any expressway, any major construction area you will see united rental. their equipment on the site. this is the way of big companies use their equipment today, the lease it, rent it from a company like you or i. charles: yeah. i got toll tu something. every time i see a crain anywhere, i take a look it is united rentals. david, thank you very much. appreciate it. >> thank you, charles. see you soon. charles: all right, folks, still to come we still have more stocks to consider, our last trade of the day plus there was a glimmer of hope lawmakers and white house were making some strides on the stimulus package but now it is radio silence. tennessee congressman mark green, he will give us is take next.

♪. charles: all right. so early this morning the market was seesawing back and forth until we got a hit from a real big miss on consumer confidence. came in at a reading of 84.8. the range is 88 to 93 depending what organization it was. i'm actually putting this on congress and i think if they keep playing games consumers are going to clam up. time for congress to wake up and wake up now. joining me republican

congressman from tennessee mark green. thanks for joining us on the show. >> thanks, charles. charles: i'm a little worried this remarkable rebound we've enjoyed is going to run out of steam as congress kind of dithers away thinking about what should and should not be in this next stimulus package. where are we with this thing? >> that is a great question. i used to run a health care company. when i left the company we were doing a little over 200 million in annual revenue and i can tell you consumer confidence is based on tomorrow what people's belief, the economy will look like tomorrow. so today they spend their money based on what they think it will look like tomorrow. this hit today is concerning but it is, and you're right, it is because nancy pelosi couldn't agree, they couldn't come up with an agreement. they wanted to spend 3 trillion. we wanted to spend a little more on that unemployment money that unemployment money has been infusion into the economy. that is causing people to consume, to give them confidence

for tomorrow. that inability to come to an agreement is what has caused this dip. now you look at the state has are wide open, like tennessee, there are some analysis from last month's data to show our consumer confidence is significantly higher than the nation. the solution one, open the economy as much as possible with the precautions necessary. then two, we got to come to an agreement on this unemployment issue. charles: in the meantime the executive order from president trump is gaining a lot of traction now. >> it is. charles: well over half the states said we want to be a part of that. in fact south dakota, because of economically situated pretty strongly and never shut down, they don't want the money but essentially, looks like many every state is going to take it. even these democratic governors who were whining chipping in 100 bucks themselves. that is great indication the money is still needed, even if we got the all-clear tomorrow and covid was completely gone,

we've lost 30% of small businesses in this country. it will take some time to rebuild. >> it is going to take some time to rebuild. but one thing to remember, we can't just throw money to it. that is not necessarily the right perspective because at some point the debt bill comes due. we got 1.6 billion, i'm sorry, $1.6 trillion in money that we've allocated that hasn't been spent yet. it is sitting out there waiting to be used. let's get that into the economy. then let's reassess what else needs to be spent. charles: congressman, i have got 30 seconds. how are you feeling so far today day one and the rnc? >> i think they're killing it. donald trump has really, if you go back to look what he did for our economy and for our country and for our standing in the world, he is the right choice. he is the giantkind of guy takes the covid-19 stuff on, head on. the other guy hides in his basement. it's a clear difference in leadership. we need donald trump. i think rnc is hitting it out of

the park. charles: congressman green, i think they had a great first night as well. thank you very much, sir. >> thank you, charles. charles: some breaking news for you now. the governor of wisconsin saying that there will be an increased presence of the state national guard tonight. this in part to, part of a plan to insure the safety of protesters and protect buildings and other infrastructure in wake of ongoing riots. these riots erupted after shooting in the back of a black man jacob blake. that is being investigated as well. the s&p 500 on pace for the third record close. at the highs of the session. some people call it the cp effect. what names should you scoop up in the final hour of trading? making money will be right back instead of buying by the share.

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charles: all right. for the most part, the market gyrating a little today. investors are grappling with the classic problem, rising winners, keep riding them out, cash in and wait or buy the losers because you know, the law of averages states that chances go around. here is mahoneyy asset management president ken mahoney. ken, you say stick with the winners. you like the semiconductor etf, the triple qs and you also have exposure to names like tesla. stick with those winners for right now?

>> right now i think it's a value trap. [ inaudible ] on news over the weekend about the plasma therapeutic but every time we go there, you start seeing airlines, you start seeing cruises catch a bit. to me, i would rather be in leadership. the opportunity costs of missing this, you know, it's like a good basketball team. every day someone steps up. one day it's tesla, one day apple, today it's facebook, today it's also alibaba. i think we saw microsoft move up a little today. but you really got to stay with technology, stay with the leaders. if you're uncomfortable, look at say the 100 day moving average or 20-day moving average and put a stop loss below it but the trend has been really really strong. i really think you are wasting a lot of time and money sitting waiting for the value names to turn around. charles: you know what's ironic, too, this is the conundrum that every time value starts to move, if it comes at the expense of growth stocks, which of course is so heavily powerful in these indexes and the indexes come down, then the money goes back

into growth because they're not just seen as growth these days, they are also seen as new safe havens, aren't they? >> look, these moves you have seen from value to growth, relative value, it lasts about two days, and then we are back to basics. you might as well just stay with the leaders. it's not working. look, take a look at banks, as an example their multiples are contracting. you want to be in an industry that's expanding. apple for many years traded at 12 and 13 multiple. now here it is. everyone makes the argument look how cheap it is. it's one area where it's contracting. look at warren buffett, the ultimate value investor, checking out of banks. again, i don't want to be in value particularly in banks for that matter. charles: i'm glad you brought all those things up because people are taught to invest by the numbers and you go for the low pes, stocks that are out of favor but they are that way for a reason. got a minute and a half to go. i want to talk about two ideas you like a lot.

bmez i think is an etf along with, qvel, both in the medical field. what do you like about them? >> if you want exposure outside technology, bmez is an etf that trades 80% below discount, pays a 5% yield and get this, 20% of portfolios are private. it's hard for individual retail investors that are not accredited krefto oinvestors to that. qvel, the rapid test, they let you know right away, they get fda approval. now they are doing covid-19. about two million tests a day, $20 a test. stock has come way way down because therapeutics are coming out but we will still need testing. i see $15 a share on the stock roughly. give it a 20 multiple, it goes back to $300 a share. unfortunately, the influenza season is coming up again. that's where they really, you know, have a stronghold on. charles: you know, these testing stocks have done extraordinarily well. you gave us two winners. we will be watching them and

bring you back to talk about it some more. buddy, appreciate it. thank you very much. we are still grinding it away here as i hand it over to my colleague liz claman. nasdaq and s&p looking pretty good. the dow ironically held back by the names getting kicked out. they are already down. the ones getting in, they are not in yet. the stocks are up. go figure. liz: charles, exxonmobil. that was a little bit of a thing last night when i saw that. i said i'm going to get on my -- [ speaking simultaneously ] liz: just crazy, right? you know what, it's not just looking good for the s&p and nasdaq, though. don't undersell it here. we are at session highs but we begin with a fox business alert to start the hour. in a very unusual move, oil stocks are actually sliding even as the gulf coast braces for impact. valero, phillips 66 and exxonmobil just hours ago started shutting down all their refineries that are in the