start smart every weekday on fox business, weekdays 6-9 eastern for "mornings with maria." i hope you'll set the tone with us every morning every week. that'll do it for this weekend. thank you so much for joining me. have a great rest of the weekend, everybody, and i'll see you again next time. ♪ ♪ gerry: welcome to the wall to "l street journal at large". just in case you were thinking that this strange year couldn't possibly hold any more shocks, very early on friday morning we learned that president trump and first lady melania have tested positive for covid-19. the president's enforced quarantine throws yet more uncertainty into an already highly-uncertain election campaign. the candidates' second presidential debate following this week's brawl in cleveland, that's presumably now in doubt as will be several other events.

of course, our primary thoughts are with mr. and mrs. trumps as well as hope hicks who also tested positive, and we wish them all a speedy recovery. as you know, over 200,000 americans have died. but it's also important to note that the vast majority of those who are infected make a full and swift recovery. there's no reason, particular reason to think anybody at the white house now will be any different. now, predictably, there were those who sought to make immediate political capital out of the first couple's suckness. you might want to avoid looking at the comments on the president's twitter feed this weekend. but clearly, this latest unsettling development will have important political ramifications for the rest of the campaign, and i'll take a look at those with a renowned pollster in a few minutes. later in the show, we'll look forward to the confirmation hearings and ask whether amy coney barrett could be the model of a new conservative feminism. but first, a few thoughts on another remarkable and exhausting week and especially on that first strange

presidential debate. now, i'll be the first to say that round one of the trump/biden smackdown was not america's finest hour. there have been more civilized discussions that take place between members of rival drug gangs. but, of course, it wasn't all angry shouting. in between the interruptions and the name-calling, some important messages did get through. now, for most of the media, of course, it was just yet another opportunity to slam president trump and what they call the basic threat that he represents to the american values of liberty, equality and decency. they spent much of the week condemning mr. trump in particular for his supposed refusal to condemn white supremacists. the president is not always crystal clear on this, but it just isn't fair to say he hasn't condemned this bigotry. he did it again this week. the same media who does this gives the democrats a pass on the challenge that they pose to many of the country's institutions and values. it was, after all, mr. biden

with who once again in the debate refused to say whether he supported plans that would upend america's longstanding constitutional order and conventions, packing the supreme court, ending the senate filibuster. and he was the one who actually declined to condemn the hard-left revolutionaries who brought terror to so many american cities this year. >> somebody's got to do something about antifa and the left because this is not a -- >> his own fbi director -- >> this is a left-wing -- >> antifa's an idea, not an organization. >> oh, you've got to be kidding. >> his fbi director -- >> gentlemen? gerry: antifa's just an idea, like those peaceful protests are just peaceful protests. tell that to the people who have watched their buildings burn down, the small business owners who have been looted and, of course, the police who have been under siege. it was all just an idea, nothing to worry about. so the president gets slammed for his lack of zeal in condemning right-wing hate

groups while vice president biden denies left-wing hate groups even exist. nothing to see here. so there are four weeks left in this campaign, what else can we expect in this uniquely depressing election year? with me to discuss this is pollster frank luntz. thank you very much, indeed, for joining us. >> it's a pleasure. thank you for having me. gerry: so, frank, let's start with this, i suppose, shocking news overnight, thursday night, friday night, that the president, the first lady, hope hicks and now others have tested positive for covid. of course, everybody's concerned immediately and primarily with the health and speedy recovery, but give us a sense what you think how the changes, if it does change, the campaign in the course of the next few weeks. >> well, donald trump is at his best in these rallies. he's at his best when he's interacting with the public and now, obviously, he won't be able to do so for 14 days. so that a takes away his best

weapon. second, it's now questionable whether he can participate in the town hall debate because that would be day number 14, maybe day number 13. and so it's going to be a tremendous challenge. and we don't even know what his health is going to be like. it makes it very hard for him to say that we're over covid when he himself is now aproduct inned by it. but by the same token, it'd be a mistake by joe biden to try to take advantage of the situation. number one, people have sympathy for the president. number two, nobody, nobody wishes this kind of ill health on anyone. and number three, the polls are still too close to say that joe biden is definitely the next president. so it's just another element of uncertainty. gerry: you are already hearing some democrats say, you know, as well as expressing sympathy for the president, yes,, or this is a president who's downplayed covid, said it was going to go away, didn't take it seriously, particularly reluctant to wear a

mask although he said he does wear a mask and that in some way, you know, this is going to reflect badly on the president now that he's got covid because it shows how careless and how uncaring he's been about it. do you think that will play? >> i think it reflects badly on democrats who are trying to score political points off of someone's infirmity. and this is a very dangerous thing. they already have seen a lot of meanness on both sides, but the idea that they would seek to take political gain from the hardship that's facing the first family right now is a big mistake on the part of the democrats. gerry: the other issue, i suppose, is that we will now be -- again, we don't know exactly, as you said, how much the president will be able to campaign, but we're going to be talking about covid at least for a time rather than economic recovery or law and order or some of the issues that i think the president would rather be talking about. that probably doesn't help the president, rah right? the more the president is focused on covid, all the polling suggests the worse for him. >> you're correct. the president has a 3-point lead

on the economy, a 1-point lead on china. if they're talking about covid, joe biden has a 10-point lead over donald trump on handling covid. if the election is about the handling of this virus, then joe biden wins. if it's about the economic recovery, then donald trump still has a very strong chance. you can't define the election if you are quarantined for 14 days. gerry: how do you see this race, frank? you've been following presidential campaigns for many, many years. this is an unusual one. the president is an unusual one. the polling seemed to be pretty steady for a long time, the national polling at least giving joe biden a 6, 7-point lead. state polls, a little closer. where do we stand? we're a month away. where do we stand in this campaign? >> so i want to give you three key statistics. number one is only 11 states could swing from one candidate to another. the other 39 states are already decided. second, only 2.4% of americans -- sorry, only 6% of

americans are truly undecided. the other 94% have made up their minds. so when you combine those two together, it's 2.4 of americans that are going to decide who the next president is. we did a focus group with them on tuesday night, and they were turned off by both candidates, both efforts, both debate performances because they thought they were issueless and too heavy on attacking the other candidate. gerry: frank, we've got to take a quick break, but when we come back, i want to talk more about the implications of that very raucous first debate and the other issues that are going to determine the election in four weeks' time. stay with us. ♪ ♪ ♪ limu emu & doug you know limu, after all these years it's the ones that got away that haunt me the most. [ squawks ] 'cause you're not like everybody else. that's why liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. what? oh, i said...

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♪ ♪ gerry: i'm back with pollster frank luntz. frank, very briefly on the debate earlier this week, the media, of course, perhaps rightly said the president's

performance didn't help him. do we have any polling evidence yet? >> i've seen some of the post-debate polls, all of them, other than telemundo, gave joe biden the lead. but joe biden didn't perform well and donald trump, honestly, did not perform well. the public thought it was a hit show with an s, and they expect more if these candidates. i'm not going to get you fined, gerry, i promise you that. [laughter] they want to know, if you're an undecided voter, you want details, you want substance, and they got one of it. all they got was two candidates yelling at each other, and if that's what happens in the next two debates, it's actually going to depress turnout as these people decide to hell with all of them. gerry: the president may be off the scene for a couple weeks now. assuming he comes after that, what has he got to do in these final few weeks when he can

campaign to turn this around? >> he's got to make joe biden tell the truth. he's got to make joe biden explain exactly what he's going to do on the first day, first 100 days, first year. he's going to show biden may be talking as a moderate but that many of the policies that his team advocates is out of the far left. the key for donald trump is to make joe biden extreme rather than mainstream. gerry: what's the risk that you think the election becoming bogged down in this discussion about mail-in ballots and the unreliability of the results? what effect does that, do you think, have on voters as they are going to the polls already? >> well, what's happening is actually depressing republicans and challenging democrats to come out. i think it's having the opposite effect of what the president wants because it's the republicans who are saying don't allow voter fraud, don't allow people to vote twice, don't allow people who aren't qualified to vote to

participate. and by raising these points, it's not adding to accountability, it's actually adding to chaos. and i'm afraid of how people are going to react on election day. gerry: frank, i know you're a presidential historian, and i see fdr looming there behind you. as you look at american history, presidential elections, elections more generally, you know, what do you learn from that history to give us some uplifting thoughts as we enter the final stretch of this campaign? >> welshes it's very hard -- well, it's very hard, but i want to show this one right here. this is jfk running as a congressman. this is his very first election. i'm in the process of putting together a couple of private collections, and you know that it's not democrat or republican, it's everybody. i want americans to vote. i want americans to participate, i want americans to realize that we have the great est electoral system in the world. don't allow anyone to destroy it in your silence.

gerry: amen to that, frank. thank you very much, indeed, for joining us. great to talk to you. up next, amy coney barrett is on the liberal hot seat for her conservative feminism, but my next guest says barrett is, in fact, a new feminist icon. she'll make her case coming up. ♪ ♪ stock slices. for as little as $5, now anyone can own companies in the s&p 500, even if their shares cost more. at $5 a slice, you could own ten companies for $50 instead of paying thousands. all commission free online. schwab stock slices: an easy way to start investing or to give the gift of stock ownership. schwab.

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♪ ♪ gerry: amy coney barrett, president trump's pick for the latest supreme court vacancy, was on capitol hill this week meeting mostly republican senators. democrats wouldn't actually give her the courtesy ahead of her confirmation hearing later this month. judge barrett has been attacked for her supposedly extreme conservative views on religion and the role to of the family.

one once-respectable news organization actually suggested she subscribes to a kind of handmaid's tale philosophy about the role of women, this despite the fact she's already one of the most accomplished and distinguished professionals in american history. this attempt to smear judge barrett raises interesting questions about feminism. liberals seem to think that women can't really be conservatives just as black americans can't support the republicans, intelligent feminists can only support democrats, they say. but judge barrett is perhaps the most important representative yet of a cache of women who believe there's no inconsistency between the idea that they should have access to the same opportunities men have while also believing they have a unique role as women within their family, community and country. here to discuss all of this is the fellow at the ethics and public policy center and a senior fellow at the abigail adams institute. her latest book, "the rights of women: reclaiming a lost vision," is hitting shelfings in 2021. erica, thank you very much for joining us.

>> thanks for having me. it's a pleasure. gerry: we've got this media picture of judge barrett who apparently wants to put women back in the kitchen while at the same time being one of the most successful professionals in the field. what do we make of that? >> yeah, it's truly extraordinary. from all accounts, she is i say in my piece, generationally brilliant. of i've heard for one that she's the smartest, would be the smartest on the bench right now. really, really brilliant woman and also i think from what i understand incredibly humble. and you don't see those two coexist in many people. and, obviously, very generous. you know, having many children herself and then inviting two adopted children into her home, caring for a special needs child. she's obviously beloved by her husband and children, and so i don't know if there's a bit of jealousy. i'm not sure what it is. but, you know, she clearly, you know, is making many of us who are out there who have, or you

know, been kind of arguing for this kind of new feminism really sort of happy. [laughter] gerry: what is -- i should say i have five daughters myself, so i have to tread extremely carefully whenever i talk about these topics, very sensitive to the issues. tell me what this new feminism is that you're talking about. >> yeah, i think it's equal civil and political right of men and women which really have been won over the last several decades, but also on our common responsibilities especially when it comes to the nurturing and education of our children. much like the first wave of the women's movement in our country, the new feminism is not interested in imitating or aping men's kind of irresponsible capacity to walk away from unexpected pregnancy through abortion, but rather in asking men as those first feminists did, you know, in the 18th sent ily and vindication of the rights of women, to meet women

with the high standard of reciprocity and care. i think it's an exciting new look for feminism, and i think it's interesting to see a woman of such prominence in her profession really reaching the pinnacle of her profession kind of embodies that. so it's an exciting time. gerry: and you talk about how abortion and roe v. wade, you know, which was seen by many people as, you know, the kind of signature achievement, if you like, of feminism, actually just as you just said, hasn't necessarily resulted in the kind proponproponentsbo,rtio,ioioio c votes h arg explain th fth f f >> y y yow, k i don't t t tutionaltutionalizinhe right rit abortionabortion has reallyealld that's rea reayt the claimhe cl. ink isthis isp eiallyy tru foroor pooroo women,omually. i thinknkt' i distortedis theed thathatesponsibilititit that lationshlatilatis.e male/femalel thinkss promotedmote

ildbearings onemer choice achoiceng and it's contributed too tohisief 992, i pla pnnlaedenthoodd v. ii case the cas ceas tha tt re affd roe while tightening it a bit, there's language about how we as a country have relied on abortion for women's equality. and i think this reliance on abortion has really distorted or, you know, changed kind of institutional and individual behavior. i list some of the ways in which it's done that in my piece, but we still rampant pregnancy discrimination in many companies, with we see women feeling like they need to hide their pregnancies, fathers feel -- fathers and mothers both feeling like they need to hide being parents at work. people being penalized when they come back to, you know, wanting to come back into the workplace after caring for children as though they'd never been doing anything, as though they'd been, like, playing video games, not doing the really important work of caring for children. and so i think, you know, we

shouldn't sort of expect anything different when we belittle the moral status of the unborn child for nearly 50 years of supreme court case law or you know, referring it, referring to human life as nearly potential life when we know scientifically it isn't true. and a popular argument or -- gerry: right, right. >> not surprised when our workplaces and other cultural institutions kind of across our country treat human beings this way too. i mean -- yeah. i just, the thing that i would like to say is this view is more coherent. gerry: right. >> being, or you know, all kinds of labor as equal and potentially the labor care-giving parents do as even more important than other work. gerry: the last article i think you were referring to was in politico. good luck with the book. my thanks to erika. coming up, covid strikes

again. germany's world famous of octobr fest had to be canceled. but those fun-loving germans aren't letting that get in the way of a good party. that's next. ♪ [ thunder rumbles ] [ engine rumbling ] [ beeping ] [ engine revs ] uh, you know there's a 30-minute limit, right? tell that to the rain. [ beeping ] for those who were born to ride, there's progressive.

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♪ muck if. ♪ gerry: well, after a week of a what's been some pretty dispiriting news, it's good to know some people still know how to have fun. while we're all still struggling

with restrictions on life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, spare a thought for the germans. the traditional octoberfest orgy has been yet another casualty of covid this year, canceled for the first time in memory. the germans got this bit of very helpful advice from the health minister of the country's large arest state. >> translator: i think a certain merriment at parties is absolutely necessary, but a bit of discipline is also wise. i wouldn't object so much to beer, but maybe you could take it easy on the hard stuff. gerry: well, who better than the entire mans to remind us how to -- germans to remind us how to party responsibly? as we con policemen tate a world of lockdowns, early closings in restaurants and bars, maybe it's not so much discipline with our merriment but a little more merriment with all that discipline. that's it for us.

be sure to follow me on twitter, facebook and instagram, and i'll be back next week with more in-depth interviews right here on "the wall street journal at large." thanks very much for joining us. ♪ ♪ ♪ jack welcome to "barron's roundtable" where we get behind the headlines and prepare you for the week ahead. i'm jack otter. the merger with amazon is helping whole foods cut costs. whole foods' ceo john mackey will join us. but what we think are the three most important things investors ought to be thinking about right now. the markets dipped on news of president trump testing positive for covid-19 but leveled off and ended the week with gains. why wasn't it a bigger deal? oil stock