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tv   Making Money With Charles Payne  FOX Business  November 29, 2021 2:00pm-3:00pm EST

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network; to find out if you could save on your prescriptions, and to get our free decision guide. humana, a more human way to healthcare. david: the dow partially rebounding after seeing its worst trading day the of year on friday. thanks for watching, everybody. neil is back tomorrow. here is my buddy can charles payne. hey, charles. charles: hey, david, hope you had a great thanksgiving, my friend. good afternoon, everyone, i'm charles payne, and this is "making money." still concerns over the omicron variant and more about government overreach now. the key is whether we shut this economy down or not, and it does seem like the administration has finally gotten the message. grab a pen and paper and settle in. plus, some say cryptocurrency didn't shine. i've got a special guest that says there's so many signals for
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bitcoin and ether, both are screaming buys right now. in fact, maybe so attractive, that's why jack dorsey. and how the tragic passion of virgil ablow. all that and so much more on "making money." ♪ ♪ charles: lingering for a few days, but on friday b11529 was given a name, and omicron was on as the stock market, bond market, everything just about took it on chin. short trading session, of course, didn't help as many would-be buyers had taken off for a long weekend. meanwhile, experts around the world, the weekend saw ominous comments from dr. fauci thatnd be more transmissable and might
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evade monoclonal antibodies. joining me now, fox news medical contributor dr. janette nesheiwat. doctor, is it too early to make the worse assumptions? right now the market is thinking maybe it won't be as bad as some were talking over the weekend. >> yes, charles, absolutely. st too early to jump to conclusions. we have tools this year that we didn't have is last year to help fight this omicron variant and all the others. it's just a matter of time, it could be days to maybe another week or two until we know exactly how variant will behave. but we have vaccine, we have monoclonal antibodies, we have therapeutics, we have medications. we know how to treat this disease. the best thing we can do is not panic but just be prepared. make sure you're vaccinated, get your booster if you're eligible
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and just use common sense precautions, hand washing, making sure you get tested if you're exposed, good ventilation if you're in public, those sorts of measures. charles: the biden administration issued a travel ban for flights out of south africa, but i watched a fight in madison square garden this weekend, and i'm wonder, is it too late for those kind of travel bans? >> that's a great question. the key is early implementation. you're going to institute a travel ban, it has to be done early. you know, first case of this omicron variant was actually identified november 9th. that was weeks ago a. and we're just now putting on travel ban today? so i think it might be a little bit too late. i think we need to focus our energy and our efforts onesting, for example, getting a pcr test before you lee the country, getting a test when you arrive. that's one of best ways to pick up variant especially because we know a lot of people could be
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asymptomatic. so i thinkesting, quarantining, contact tracing, that's what we immediate to focus on along with vaccinating those in countries that have such a low level of vaccination. charles: president biden brags how much we've given versus the rest of the world, but i think we've got the most, and honestly i don't think the administration if's living up to what they promised rest of world. i was reading where 85% of the population with immunity is considered herd immunity. what role does natural immunity play within that time frame, that number? >> that's a very good question. natural immunity definitely can give you protection. of all the patients i've taken care of the past year and a half, past two years, i haven't seen a lot of patients who have had a previous infection and come back in and test the positive. maybe a handful. i have more patients half breakthrough infections, so it definitely plays a role. but the question is durability, how strong and how long will it
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last. we have preliminary data that tells us if you get toledoses of an mrna vaccine, your protection skyrockets. the person that has most protection is someone, for example, that has a covid is, they recovered and later they get vaccinated. they have that natural immunity and vaccine immunity. so we all can be protected, it's just a matter of getting the toledoses especially if you're eligible -- three doses. charles: i've got less than a minute, i want to squeeze this in because the delta variant has been surging around the world. why is that not a story mihm? >> -- anymore? >> it should be. what happens in other countries affects us in the united states. it's a little bit disappointing that we haven't ramped up, we immediate to up prove our genome ific surveillance and sequencing. we can do that with pcr testing,
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for example. but what happens in other countries that a direct impact on us here in the united states. we're only as strong as our weakest country, so it's important we insure global vaccinations for everyone. charles: always fantastic to see you, particularly when we're kind of nervous about something. you always make us feel better. thank you so much. hope to see you soon. >> thank you, charles. charles: jim, just your thoughts on this latest challenge for the world and the markets. >> yeah, i, you know, i think all and all, charles, from a pure investment standpoint, it's not all bad to shock market every now and again, shock players, keep a fear level elevated, if you will. i feel comforted9 that the vix is back above 20. i think that's kind of a good sign that wall of worry stays in place. i don't know what's going to happen in terms of this newest variant or delta, but i do think, you know, with we vetted for a long are time across the
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world and in this country. we know a whole lot more about thing than we did when it first came on scene -- charles: right. >> and i think there's very high probability that this current peer eventually dissipates here as we go into next year. charles: jim, spike that wall street had been concerned about is the inflation spike in october. has that changed your outlook on the market? >> i still think it is the biggest risk facing the market and the economy. i also still think that it's fairly remote that this thing, inflation's going to get out of control and result in runaway inflation. i think it's going to more likely end up with slightly elevated inflation that persists, more like 3% than 2, but i think it is going to calm down, i'm actually becoming more confident that it will. and if it does, i think wall street attitudes will improve and their fears of inflation will dissipate. charles: you've been looking for
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just some sort of a test, a dip, if you will. obviously, you like idea of us being shaken up, get rid of some of that complacency. are you surprised even though we were down a lot on friday, i think a lot of that were algorithms and machines, not a lot of human beings, are you surprised at the resolve market shows over and over again? [laughter] >> yeah, i am. i mean, you know, for a while i wouldn't have been surprised here in the last few months if we had a correction at any time. we've talked about that, charles, and i still kind of feel that way, but i just don't know if i see it. i don't see the pressure on interest rates, i don't see the persistent inflation fears. there's no policy officials that are tightening anything, earnings are just phenomenal, and i think they're going to stay that way when i look out over the next few quarters. so it's hard to see where it's going to come from. you know, we're going to grow, the atlanta fed gdp if estimate
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for quarter is 8.5% right now, and with inflation we might have a nominal gkp quarter that's 12 14% which ties correctly to what earn concern directly to what earnings can do. st hard to knock it down whenst got this much fundamental support. charles: dr. nesheiwat has us feeling better on medical side, and you have us feeling better with our portfolios. jim, great way to start a monday, thank you very much. joining me now, gary kaltbaum. ed yardeni posted a great list over the weekend with omicron as the discovery, the 71st panic attack since 2007. for me there was 70 times you could have bailed out on this market. obviously, if you did, it would have been a mistake. so now we've got 71. your thoughts. >> i think i'm on 69 or 70 myself. [laughter] look, charles, i have always said that if you believe in the
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advancements that we are seeing, you gotta bet on markets for the longer term. and i say that when i believe we're going to have a bear market next year just because we've had such a good run are. that doesn't mean the end of the world is at hand. and i always explain, i explain to my kids when i was young, we had encyclopedia britannica. that was my learning. now we have google. we had slinky as a game, now they have these video games that are so real. so the advancement that we have seen throughout years with the amgens, i can go on and on for hours about the advancements and the productivity that if you just get through all the panicking and the bear markets and bull markets and recessions and depressions and expansions, as long as you believe in the advancement of technology and medicine and people themselves and capitalism, markets will go ahead as we move forward.
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and that's why i'm so loud and vociferous when i hear, you know, socialists and marxists wanting to take over. there's nothing better than capitalism to be best you can be, and we're seeing it in droves just in the last year with the vaccines. so panics aside, you know, i have never been more optimistic on us. i'm just very pessimistic on them and that place called d.c. charles: you know, it's interesting because those same socialists that you reference, they always have to hijack the spoils of capitalism to fund their utopia, right in they can never generate it on their own because it doesn't generate prosperity at all. hey, you and i talked a lot about these weakening internals for weeks, even before this new variant, so it wasn't necessarily a surprise we had exceptional weakness on friday. the underpinnings were starting to to deteriorate a little bit. right now as it seems to you,
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you know, sifting through the ashes, everything's up right now, financials were last sector to go up before i came to the studio, what are you looking at? any particular buying opportunities right now? >> semiconductors look like hare ready to do -- they're ready to do another little moonshot here. some of the big cap tech which was leading coming into last week look like they want to go higher. adobe, microsoft. and just a long list -- advanced microdevices, nvidia. these all have one constant, and that is strong earnings and revenue growth and great rellive strength. and i can just tell that the big institutional crowd are in there. and a little bit earlier advance declines on the nasdaq were actually down, so the money flows remain, and i think it's going to be that way at least into the end of the year and as we head into the first quarter. and, again, there's a reason, just strong earnings, strong
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sales growth and the ability to deliver. charles: hey, do you remember the commercial for the shrink key? slinky? ♪ a slinky, a slinky, a wonderful, wonderful toy. ♪ing a slinky, a slinky, it's fun for a girl or a boy ♪♪ [laughter] all right, my man, i'm going to go look for a slinky this weekend. >> don't forget operation the game. charles: i'll get that as well. see you soon. coming up, panic attack on wall street, cryptos passed the are test. and will the latest covid push through more social spending programs? brian wesbury, he's next. ♪ never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down -- ♪ never gonna run around and desert you. ♪ never gonna make you cry, never gone no that say
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for runaway inflation as the administration makes that big push for more social spending. i want to bring in chief economist brian wes burr true. brian wesbury. we know powell and company have always said covid-19 was the diseasing factor. meanwhile, you know, the yield curve has been flattening. 0-year is -- 10-year is an ascending triangle, so i need your help. what's going on here? what are the markets saying right now? >> you know, charles, if you go back to the very beginning, the root of the build back better agenda -- and it's around the world, boris johnson in the u.k. has said it, obviously, the president has said it, they've talked about it many germany -- it's really about the great reset. and covid-19 is part of that. and so this is one of the reasons why a lot of people are worried about what the government will do as these variants come out, as the
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vaccines wane many efficacy, all -- in efficacy, all of these things. and part of the process is the fed, and as usual, you nailed it. fed is tapering right now. they've begun. they expect to be done by middle of next year. i think they're going to drag it out. i -- and what aha means is they won't lift rates until they're done tapering -- charles: right. >> and that just pulls whole yield curve down. so when we get the scare on friday plus the fed, it means the 10 is-year rallies and interest rates go down. charles: and, of course, we've seen so many of these, like the fed tracker, those things have adjusted tremendously when the first rate hike will come. here's the thing, brian, here's my theory. you're going to have a lot of folks in the united states and perhaps other countries in the west or that are going to say to the public, hey, you know what? we've a had depack toe universal basic income, de factod modern
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monetary policy for four or five years. we never announced it, but that's exactly what we've had. household balance sheets have gotten fat and healthy, we haven't gone into a recession, how about we make it official. what happens if they make that the 2022-2024 rally criesome. >> -- cry? >> you know, charles, it is a worry when you have all government spending. it's kind of like giving an accident victim morphine. you don't feel the pain. you don't feel pain of the shutdowns. but you would argue that universal basic income, all these checks that we gave out were a total failure because the idea about ubi, universal basic income, is that people were more likely to be entrepreneurial, more likely to work harder because they get this money. and it turns out what people really do is they go party, they don't work. and so i think that's been a failure. and the key thing that's driving
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all of this is the federal reserve. the government, there is no way the government could spend this many trillions of collars with the kind of -- dollars with the kind of impact they've had without the fed monetizing the department. and has inflation, and they believe inflation's transitory, and they're going to find out it's not. and he was to tighten policy. charles: and everyone else, by the way, has found out that it's not and the political favors, that maybe these politicians thought they were gaining all have been erased and wiped away. bruin, thank you so much, my friend. >> absolutely. charles: there's a buy signal looming over bitcoin and ethereum right now. find out what it is and why they're bouncing big item time. one of the hottest sectors of the market until recently, they're starting to sell off a little bit. i've got an expert that says this is your opportunity to get in there and make some money. she's coming right up. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪
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♪ charles: well, crypto haters and doubters waited for it, and it happened friday. they got hammered while everything else got hammered, and some say it's not the safe haven it was thought to be. leah halperin with me now. both held their 100-day moving a averages, both coming back nicely, so what cocan you say to those who say crypto wasn't ready for its moment? when the market was crashing, it crashed as well? >> great to be back, thanks so much for having me on. bitcoin is still definitely that safe haven asset. nothing goes straight up and, in fact, we don't want it to, because often when things do, they're followed by very sharp
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snapbacks. what we want to see is nice, healthy corrections. it's really important to realize that bitcoin is only 12 years old, so this is still a very immature market, is so it's still going affect it. look at march 2020, for example, when covid took over the world and lockdowns started. we saw a mayor crash from 8k down to 4k, but it then wenten on break new all-time highs continuing into 2021, becomes the best performing asset including gold which is down year to date whereas bitcoin is up resourcely 100 -- ruly 100%. bitcoin is that obvious store of value, you really just have to zoom out. i don't understand how people can look at gold as an asset. charles: it had a pretty good day friday but, obviously, i get
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your point. one with of the reasons jack door i's bowing out of twitter is to solely focus on crypto. how bullish of a story would that be in. >> this is incredibly bullish, but one of the most fascinating parts is jack dorsey said earlier in miami that if he was to leave twitter and square, he would go full time into bitcoin. so of course we can expect him to do this. i think it's important to realize who jack dorsey is. he's somebody who spent 16 years dedicated to building what is now, essentially, one of the most important social media platforms in the world. it's totally revolutionized how politics works, how the media works, how we work. you and i met through twitter, for example. so if he can bring that level of expertise, that credibility and energy into building bitcoin, it's going to be very bullish. and another important point is many twitter users are very much dissatisfied with the level of censorship we tend to see on twitter, so there is a lot of
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hope that jack could potentially build some form of decentralized, censorship-resistant version maybe on bitcoin network when we get to that point, and that could actually bring all of those dissatisfied twitter users into bitcoin, opening it up. charles: i've spent some taoism with jack and had lunch and dinner with him, and i think he also sees it as a way to help rest of the world, you know, the underdeveloped countries not have to go through the imf and other ways to get on track. i need a shorter answer, but i need one on the ecb, christine la guard over weekend saying bitcoin is not a currency -- christine lagarde. >> bitcoin is obviously a currency. i get paid 100% many bitcoin. to say that is very ignorant, and i think the saddest point was she didn't really give a reason, he just sort of said is it. and i believe she feels this way
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because she realizes as the president of european central bank that bitcoin has the ability to dismantle the establishment disintermediate government and central banks, and when you don't need the government and central banks, they have less control and less power. charles: we've got to work on getting you out of your shell, to kind of be a little bit more passionate about things and speak directly and not be afraid. in the meantime, thank you so much, and we'll talk to you again real soon. >> thanks, charles. charles: holiday shopping season off to a so-so start, but for investors the big excitement is over how we're spending it. as many of you know, i love this whole buy now, pay later movement, but i'm not alone. i'm going to bring in ava ekos. i grew up with layaway -- [laughter] so i'm intrigued with the rise of buy now, pay later. but the reason some of these key names have been hit pretty good, on top of that the biggest name,
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they're not public yet, but klarner's apparently in the first nine months of the lost $300 million, interesting concept, can these companies make money many. >> i think at some point they'll urn cash flow positive. we expect it to happen in the next but years. it's a numbers game. so we need to remember that companies like affirm, for example, who partner with amazon will be able to extend their user base. so this is a growing market. two-thirds of the millennials do not own a are credit card, they're using other methods of payment. it's only going to grow from now on. charles: ssas software a is a service, a bunch of them report earnings, salesforce, z scaler, those last who even got upgrades. would you be a buyer of my of
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these ahead of earnings reports? >> we wouldn't add to it, that's because they're going through a major acquisition, and it takes some time to integrate it. when with it comes to snowflake, that's a company that growing extraordinarily. we like it. it's the 92% growth. cutting down its g and a costs, exend tending margins, and then zscaleer is in a growing category, cybersecurity hawaii's a category that's only going to grow from now on. with more and more companies automating their processes, using a.i., machine learning, distillation is here to stay and that makes more more vulnerable to cyber attacks. to cybersecurity companies are here to stay, and zscaleer would be among winners. charles: cybersecurity, i waited year after year after year after year, the headlines were there but the stocks never moved.
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do you have an absolute favorite many that space? >> definitely. crowdstrike. they're the leader in protection platform, very relevant now with the work from home movement, our individual importants are very vulnerable. it's not a company of cay that analytics that allows them to determine good and bad actors and prevent them from harming web site. also upselling with other products such as user experience ones. charles: they report this week, so we'll get a chance to see. ava, been watching you work, and you're fantastic. pleasure to have you on the show. coming up, it looks like the small business administration's been caught flat footed yet again. i'm calling all small business owners, you must see our segment about this before the money runs out. also my next guest combines humor and seriousness, but how do we know when to bow out?
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you still can. ♪ ♪ (blowing dust) when you have a rock you can depend on for life, you'll be unstoppable. that's why over 5,500 companies rely on prudential's retirement and workplace benefits. who's your rock? ♪ ♪ charles: one of biggest winners in the session, stock's up 7%, up more than 50% in the last three the months, and my next guest says it's an example of the market disorganizations being -- distortions being created by federal reserve. its rival, avis, is up 230%, andst been up 400% the last quarter. my next guest is sven hendricks. hertz has erupted to the outside, raiding five times its
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average -- trading five times its average daily are volume. why is that thed bad thing? >> it's a great thing for shareholders and gives hope to people who chase the stock and experience a major drawdown in it. look, the buybacks and sells are fine, i suppose, especially if you're a well-running company like apple. the problem becomes, ultimately, creating an environment of permanent bailouts looking at the airlines between 2010 the-019, 96% of their cash flow went to buybacks and as soon as something goes wrong, they're asking for bailouts. we saw that with fannie mae and freddie mac many 2008 after the whole mortgage-backed -- or, rather, sub prime disaster. so, you know, basically by constantly bailing out everyone, you invite an environment of eclessness. nobody has the reserves ready to deal with a disaster or an emergency like we just had. and that's ultimately ad bad
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thing, and the ped's mandate is full unemployment, yet jay powell in 2012 specifically stated investors are basically counting on us to bail them out. and that's exactly what they're, in essence, doing. charles: where does the buck -- >> that's not efficient management. charles: i agree with you a thousand percent, and i think the airline, to your point, fantastic e example of that. they got even more money last year for the whole covid thing. turns out they were going to retain workers, they didn't retain work e it became more difficult, more onerous to travel, the bag fees were temporary. i think it's a great case study, i'm glad you brought them up, but who's responsible for turning off that spigot9? >> ultimately, it would be the federal reserve itself, but they have really gotten themselves into a position of feeding the monster, the monster being the market. ultimately, since 2009 qe was emergency measures, zero rates were emergency measures and now they're permanent intervention.
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it's like no one likes socialism, but we already have it in terms of the corporate bailout structures and in terms of market protection, if you will. we've destroyed the process of creative destruction which is ultimately supposed to make for a better, more efficient economy. but we don't have that now and, unfortunately, my criticism has been because they're constantly coming in and notice all the q with e programs we had since 2009 always came in as soon as there was any type of market trouble. we're disconnecting from the actual economy so the market itself becomes the biggest danger to the economy. because if you see a drawdown, just even 20%, consumer confidence plummets, spending plummets, and it becomes ever more interdependent on each other. so they're actually forced to keep sustaining bubble, and they're scared of popping the bubble because that's why we see this long, drawn-out process with tapering and rate hikes and
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all that stuff. charles: i've got less than a minute, but let's squeeze this in because if you don't like the fed now, you're not going to like it probably anymore -- [laughter] obviously, jay powell in this battle to keep his job, he expressed concerns about things like climate change which you've got to believe may become a new de facto mandate. it just keeps expanding its role, his job and all the things he has oversight over, and it's another ball to juggle. sounds to me like more accommodation. >> absolutely. this is the next, basically, kick the can process. now we have to fight climate change, so that gives the excuse on the dovish side and to obviously hold back on any tightening. in the meantime though, now that we have inflation in there, they're really fighting on that hill about transitory, you know, the bottom 50% are really getting hurt by all this, and that's why consumer
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confidence -- by the way, shocking -- is as low as it was at the march 2020 bottom. so there's a big disconnect between what's happening on the market side and on the consumer confidence side which says, you know, we're actually hurting here. charles: feels like we've crossed the rubicon, and i don't know when we come back. always appreciate your conversations. i tell everyone poll you on twitter, you have the the best sense of humor of anyone out there. thank you so much. >> that ises, charles. good to be with you. charles: machines with algorithms, they were the panic on friday. so if you haven't pulled trigger, i've got some guests with big ideas. also small business is still trying to recover from last year's lockdown, but key programs have cast another dark shadow. carol roth is here with what you need to know. and anyone looking for some stocking stuffer, i've got a look at some of the best democratic action figures over the weekend. i want to know what you think
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about these babies as a gift. tweet me @cbpayne. ♪ you can make it right and that a makes you larger than life ♪♪ your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit do you have a life insurance
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charles: when my son was in junior high d high school, with we would go into these small stores, one was called off white. i gotta tell you, we bought these expensive t-shirts. hay had a lot of style and a lot of flair, and then my son told me the story about the pounder. the founder. my son ran into him at doer street market in london in 2017, and for him it was a dream come true. virgil was nice, he encouraged him to follow his dreams. virgil is the kind of small business success story we like to hear because it's so inspirational. i want people to dream big, and i think it helps when at this very moment my son is putting on an art show.
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let me bring in carol roth right now because you and i are always looking out for small business heroes. >> obviously, if you are a fashion knee a that or like i am from chicago, you know this is just a devastating loss. mr. baloh was a -- abloh was a creative visionary, and from a small business standpoint i think real takeaway is he always challenged the norms. he didn't say this is way things were done before, so it has done the same in the future. and he also fashioned himself a maker. he saw business as art and art as business, and he lived that way. so as a huge loss, but i think that he is going to have this legacy and this path that he's carved out that many entrepreneurs and artists are going to be the able to follow. charles: the sba is under a lot
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of pressure, small businesses complaining about difficulties accessing funds. they're only open for another month, and i know this is something you've been warning us about this, so what's going on? [laughter] >> what's going on? that is billion dollar question for so many small business owners across the country. charles, everything that the government and the sba has touched since march of last year in regards to small business has been an epic disaster. from the relief funds that were found to be done on a discriminatory basis and then the women and minority who lost their money to this current eidl situation, you know, technology, the hoops that they have to jump through. small businesses are so frustrated, and they have to be focusing on hair customers -- their customers, they have labor issues, supply chain issues, inflation issues all caused by
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the government. the last thing they need to do is jump through these additional hoops. if you look at these crony businesses that got relief funds, many of them just got a check. so why do small businesses have to go through all of this brain damage, go new all these hoops -- through all these hoops? and, unfortunately, there are some businesses that are too big to fail and for small businesses in this country, they're just considered too small to matter. charles: you know, it's a shame, but i hate to say i do agree with you that collectively there's no voice even though they create most of the new jobs in this country. i was in a toy store for small business saturday. i saw a bunch of action dolls, but they didn't sell any. looked like they all were there, none of them had been sold. so if i can have your permission, i want to ask the story to sell your action figure doll. [laughter] >> well, can ask is somebody who has their own action figure, i'll put it up here.
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you're supposed to do the an action figure of a hero, not a zero. [laughter] maybe that's why they weren't selling. one of the things people don't know, i'm partnered with integrity toys. i do a lot of work with them. of they make collectible dolls, and they made my action figure for a book that i put out more than ten years ago. unfortunately, i can't get them mihm, but i could probably find one for you, charles. charles: just in time for christmas. carol, thank you so much. [laughter] always appreciate it. and by way, i did ask the audience about their thoughts on potential stocking stuffers, and i got an earful. made in china? anna says bernie doll is free, everyone gets one, not sure who pays for it. do you have to be vaccinated to buy one? and my personal favorite, is this therny collection? [laughter] we'll be right back. ♪♪
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charles: all right so buying the dip has been the investing mantra for 2021 and obviously, has been great but its actually been a smart approach since 200e did you buy the dip this morning want to bring in luke lloyd and ryan payne, who i'm not affiliated with these guys but both are buying in dippers so let me start with you, luke. you tend to go growth names did you buy the dip and if so what
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did you buy? >> yeah, actually i tweeted on friday that i didn't see any good black friday deals, but i found a lot of good stock deals so i firstly bought chegg and fubo, regards to teledoc, virtual health isn't going away, and heck i personal ly just started doing virtual office visits this year, and it's so much easier and save s me money through my insurance, we own it as a firm, for our clients from $60 up into the 2 hundreds so we over- tripled our money and now that's trading much more reasonable valuation near $100 i started accumulating for myself this morning regards to c. hegg, their stock got hammers and they are accelerating their stock repurchase program, education is always needed. charles: every college kid i know uses chegg. ryan, -- >> i used it back when i went to college its been great. charles: it's really amazing. you've obviously buy in the dip as well more value overgrowth.
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now, values been under performing are you going to stay the course there? >> well it depends where you look at it from charles you go back last october which i would argue is when we saw the great rotation when the vaccine news came out, value is actually slightly outperformed growth for the record but i do think the bottom line is look at some point here valuations going to matter you've got value right now trading at half the multiple of growth, so much cheaper and if you look at growth rates next year they are pretty much pairity when you look at growth and value and if you look at the more cyclical sectors like financials, energy, they are dramatically outperforming the market this year and that trend continues because the economy is going to keep getting better keep running hotter and you've got to own that cyclical trade. charles: normally we'd be talking about consumer spending for the rest of the year, you know, christmastime and hanukkah time and new years. here is the thing, ryan. i'm not really seeing a lot of interest there but i am seeing signs that maybe, maybe the consumers running out of money like the excess savings are gone. are you seeing that? >> no. if you look at it statistically
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right now consumers have $2.3 trillion more today than they did pre-pandemic not to mention wages are going up if you look at savings accounts they're double what they were pre-pandemic. people shocking but americans become more fiscally disciplined and i argue with more savings that the could go for a lot longer the economy will run hot for a lot longer as well. charles: real quick with a minute to go both of you guys the biggest risk to the market, luke i'll start with you. >> yeah, it's not covid or the omicron variant it's the politics behind it, so politics are driving things like shutdowns, mandates and restrictions, covid wasn't as political and the stock market wouldn't care but the one thing that concerns me this time around is if we did end up shutting down, again, the supply chain can't handle this much stopping and starting again, so stagflation be the result which is a really bad scenario if that happens, biden could go down as a stagflation administration if he plays this. charles: i'll give biden credit he said earlier today no
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lockdowns he must know what you're saying ryan you got five seconds to tell us the biggest risk. >> yeah hope it's not the 70s but interest rates gotta go higher inflation is at 6%, 10 year is at 1.6% that's the problem if rates go higher you have to be very careful with those growth assets with high multiples and bond funds get crushed. charles: sounds good guys let me , luke, ryan, thank you both very very much now liz claman, over to you. liz: charles i want you to look at the vix. i know you keep an eye on this but take a look at the fear index, it has gone hog wild. okay, friday it jumped 54% as mid-term anxiety gripped the markets but look at it right now dropping 22% to black friday 's bears getting chased off by the bulls as the new covid variant omicron may not be as worrisome as some feared. markets cutting into friday's losses and oils partial rebound leading the energy sector higher the emergence of that omicron variant, a hot topic at russia callin


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