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tv   Making Money With Charles Payne  FOX Business  December 14, 2021 2:00pm-3:00pm EST

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down about 20% year-to-date. there has been just a chill on technology investing. of course it is playing out again today. she is saying right now though that the supply chain juggernaut, the problems around that will continue. that has been a hiccup not only for funds but for the companies behind them. that inflation is not the worry as much as deflation is the worry for the markets. her view. now to charles payne. charles. charles: neil, thank you very much and good afternoon, everyone, i'm charles payne. this is "making money." breaking right now, all that mounting internal damage i've been talking about for weeks you can see it bubbled up to the surface and now it is gobbling some of the biggest names in the market that of course is bad news. many stock, i'm talking about a lot of them, you heard about cathie wood are oversold. that is good news. pain is not easy. so during the show we'll discuss long-term investing success. that is what it is all about. get ready for advice you can use
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especially on a day like today. how americans measure economic pain and how a woke fed officials sounding the alarm. larry kudlow will tell us what it is all about. it is one thing in the market to say i've got diamond hands and another to be about it. they knew there would be moments like this. what are the movements to stay in control? i have within of my favorites matt kohrs coming on. all that and more on "making money." ♪. charles: stocks stumbled out of the gate. it has been straight down ever since after giving up the ghost. ppi report hit came in much hotter than expected. the street was embracing for molten lava to begin with. there has been sporadic buying and major indices bounced off earlier lows. the problem right now the damage has been done and for up until
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this moment a lot of damage had been obscured by strong overmarket performance. these indices have been up but the market has been getting hammered. i will give you an example. before coming into today's session the nasdaq was up, 3.6% rather below its all-time high. not too bad, right? well the average stock in the composite was down 39% from their highes. on the s&p 500, same kind of thing. only half a point off the all-time high coming into today, the average stock down 12% from a new high. investors are getting shellacked. more are getting out all together. internal pain is so severe. i think at this point you hold a lot of positions you're in to hope for a better day. how do you get there and profit from the situation. get the read from larry glazer, david nelson, and jim awad. david, wall street using the s&p 500.
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almost every major player on s&p 500 to grade their work. that is how you get bonuses, market your material. you're dealing with individual investors. they are seeing the s&p off half a point, stocks in the portfolio routinely down 20, 30, 40%. how does the communication go, hang in there even though it looks worse, like we're underperforming? >> you know, really make a good point and this is a year where the major market averages don't tell the story of the pain going on underneath the surface. look, when you have a pandemic, you have inflation surging, you have tax uncertainty of course you will have a flight to safety. that is what you saw. we saw investors fleeing to roughly five big technology names that were responsible for a roughly of a third of the market gains since the beginning much the year, more so since the spring. that is this year's story. there is seasonality going on. the cathie wood story is a good one. she was a rock store. could no do no wrong when oil
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getting hit. this year with oil no one wants to touch her. small growth names have great long term stories. ahead of the fed they are kryptonite in high growth names and inflationary environment. next year will be a totally different story. use tax-loss selling as opportunity to populate your buy list next year. charles: great point, by the way, larry. david, last week you sounded like a man on a ledge. i love your honesty at moments like this. have you talked yourself back off the ledge or should i call the fire department? the. >> i'm estimate here, charles. a good point was made, apples microsoft, megacaps names mask a lot of pain underneath the surface. two inflation trends on friday, cpi on friday, ppi today, that will shape the narrative well into the next year. when was the last time you saw a boring sector like consumer staples, the xlt, lead to the upside here, leading sector
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right now, really for the last couple of days? i don't think it is sustainable. i think it lights the higher prices but higher input costs that is likely a do ma'am nick that will hit a lot of industries. charles: to your point, when covid hit last year, the market was melting, staples were melting, clorox of the world, buy them, hold them forever, almost immediately they left the leadership board and trailed badly ever since. jim, i have a small redbox on my wall in the office, when the you know what hits the fan, break glass. inside the glass it is your phone number. you have to share some words with us today. >> i will pick up the phone tell you this is a traditional panic situation. these are the types of downside momentum that you want to buy into gradually. if you look around the corner the news is the inflation numbers will get better in the second half of the year due to
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the comparisons are easier and the supply chain catching up. the fed will give us pain here. good they're normalizing rates because the low rates created pockets of speculation in the markets. you need a more sane, soundly based market going forward but profits are going to grow, the fed will be done by end of next year i believe, and you know stocks are the, are the best hedge against inflation. charles: to that point the market certainly seems like it is panicking a little bit more the potential that the fed tapering won't just stop there. here's the interesting thing though as we start the debate the rate hikes, they're not always a death knell, certainly not immediately for the market so why the panic, david? >> it's true, stocks can move higher in rising rates and can and often coexist with increased economic activity but the question, charles, is which stocks are going up? if you look at obvious suspects maybe like financials but certainly a challenge for long duration equity, i.e., very
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high, very expensive growth stocks. i think that the challenge right now, why we're moving down the valuation curve, there is a lot of stocks, growth at the right price has suddenly morphed into growth at any price. that is a dynamic changing under our feet right now. charles: larry? >> fed is in a pickle here. the inflation genie is out of bottle it. i don't know which will be worse the cure or the symptoms of the disease because we don't know what the fed will do. they have been wrong on this. they let it happen. let the economy run hot. they clearly made a policy mistake. we don't know how much they overreact in the other direction to deal with it. it's a problem right now. inflation at some level is transitory but the way they addressed it a complete misstatement. they should recognize we'll get through it but at what cost? that is the big concern. charles: everyone seems you buy the dip. hashtag buy the dip and will probably work again. jim, how do you do it? from a technical point of view
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we're bouncing off the trendlines and getting close to one right now. i know people that trade more actively you want to be more nimble but how do you populate your buy list? >> you populate the buy list, certain stocks, companies, you want to own over a long period of time and buy them during periods of panic and emotion. i go with a growth fund, a dividend income fund and a defensive value fund and a couple of specialized fixed income vehicles, all of whom become more attractive on a day like today. again i think you need to think long term. we'll go into a period where growth will remain reasonable, not like this year, inflation will be down from this year, not back to 2% but down from this year and the fed will get its job done during some point at 2022. their credibility is on the line. i this think he will move
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aggressively. look at it like you're in a dentist chair. take the drill and use period of pain to position for long term. charles: unfortunately a lot of people getting out of this chair they're missing teeth. not like shiny veneers, they're like golly, what happened to year. >> don't get too pessimistic. charles: all right. hang in there. give me a lot of novocaine. the gallup investor optimistic index i want to talk about. that thing is plummeting from the highs but here's the thing, it is coming off highs we've seen since the covid-19 right? is this, is this the kind of thing that maybe david, you would use as contrarian indicator? what role now does investor, optimism or pessimism play with your decision making? >> i think it is understandable. the inflation data is probably pretty frightening not just for investors but really americans. they're paying up for everything from the pumps to the grocery store. it is starting to affect
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housing. even if you're trying to rent an apartment, trying to move into a new home right now, move into a new apartment you're probably rethinking that. the good news often this is self-correcting. these commodity prices sky-high right now they can come in very, very quickly. all you need is a hint ever economic contraction. offset the currents moving down the valuation curve here. we need the fed to get aggressive here, double the taper. i think you have to move the dot plot forward, probably as soon as march of next year. charles: one of the better known doves out there wrote a scathing op-ed today on the fed doing exactly that. i'm going to talk to larry kudlow about that later because the doves are getting hawkish right now. that means something has to be done. larry, david, jim, thank you very much, guys, you're absolutely fantastic. appreciate you starting the show. the fed hawkses are circling, the doves are starting to fly with them. larry kudlow will give his take on that, also the woke fed, did
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th fail on their mission and give up on the wokeness? as president xi will meet vladmir putin, maybe his biggest problem is the youth revolt in china. that's right. why is that big news for america ♪. new projects means new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. when you sponsor a job, you immediately get your shortlist of quality candidates, whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria. visit (vo)d get started today. t-mobile for business helps small business owners
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♪. charles: so for years we've been bracing for increased confrontation, perhaps america even being displaced by china but what if the real threat to our preeminence isn't from a sovereign nation at all but from the digital world we helped create? double line portfolio manager bill campbell joins us now. bill, i want to begin with china which seems to be in trouble. president xi has gone after the most powerful and profitable businesses. he sent the chinese etf internet down 45%. he is cracking down on teens, young adults, how often they can play videogames. he declared they won't be quote, lying flat. i'm reading where they're pushing back. what is going on there? >> well, charles, first, thanks for having me. i think when we look, when i
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look at china, i look at it through the lens of one year forward. the most important date when we're analyzing china is october 2022 when president xi is up for his unprecedented third term which he is likely to be reappointed too and i think a lot of the regulatory actions that we're seeing today are in the lead-up to that. the one that you're specifically pointing to i think is the idea of common prosperity or wealth redistribution where the chinese authorities are trying to regain control of the economy and regain their power via the economy and try the next -- we know another round of stimulus is coming in china in 2022 leading up to the appoint men of xi. in the past we had these stimulus, wealth is concentrated among a few. the idea is to concentrate wealth among the whole population and in doing so, sorry, go ahead. charles: but it sounds like it
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is a delicate dance, isn't it though, to sort of tamp down on these companies or how much of their profits they can keep and think they would maximize their profitability? >> well i don't think they're trying to maximize profitability at all. i think we're going through a capital to labor shift right now. i think the idea that you had very wealthy ceos, you know a year or two ago such as jack ma, speaking out against, you know, the chinese government, presented a real threat going into this 2022 appointment of xi xinping. so i think what we're seeing again is, these regulations are designed for china to gain more control of data. so when you look at the technology what have they done? they have trying to put -- in where the government has more control of the data. they're trying to make sure no one individual becomes extremely wealthy or more powerful than what the government would want. they're also trying to redistribute wealth more broadly
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so when they have the next round of stimulus everyone gets cash in their pocket and there is less after risk of social unrest when xi goes into his reappointment which he as we all know wants to go smoothly. charles: bill, i want to ask you about, i want to switch gears i read a piece you wrote about the blockchain. for a while we were taking china, at some point the yuan soup sear seeding the u.s. dollar you wrote a paper how blockchain may pose a threat to the dollar's reign as reserve world currency. tell us more about that? >> well, first of all the idea that china is you know basically just it waiting to become the world's next reserve currency i have big questions about due to many of the institutional problems or strengths that china doesn't have. one the rule of law, if we can't really be sure you're going to get a fair shake if you're an institutional investor or for
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ininvestor. we're not sure how defaults work out and three, capital account is closed. money coming in and money going out is highly regulated especially for domestic. this is where blockchain comes in and digital currency and what i think is likely to happen going forward as digital currency and block chains allow settlement of international payment we'll start to see countries favoring bilateral set meant instead of settlement in the u.s. dollar. what i mean by that, why does australia and singapore need to settle trade in the u.s. dollar? why can't they settle it between bilaterally between their two currencies? that purities further pressure on the dollar in the foreign exchange buck account locally which is currently stands at 60%. it has been coming down. as more bilateral settlement happens the need to hold large stock of u.s. dollars also
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starts to fade. charles: okay. >> i think instead of being replaced by one currency it could abbey lateral system. charles: you have to wonder what the role of petrodollars will be in a world where there is no petrol. we'll see. bill, i could talk to you about this much longer but we're out of time. i would like for to you come back. there are more questions i have. thank you very much. >> thank you, charles. charles: so did the fed know it was risking -- we know the fed knew it was risking an inflationary crisis yet they went ahead with this new policy approach. i will talk to larry kudlow about it. they went for woke and some say we're going broke. next, where is everyone? foot traffic at department stores has fallen sharply. the big question is the consumer actually tapped out? as the the last stimmie check gs out tomorrow. i have a power panel to discuss that. ♪
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charles: no bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings. i'm reminded of this line as i hear many market watchers, politicians, members of the media gush over the amazing state of our economy. some are actually saying it is the greatest of their lifetime but it is not the most organic economy of their lifetime. that is where william blake's famous line from his book, the marriage of heaven and hello comes into play. this economy got a lot of health from trillions of dollars of free money that provided the wind beneath its wings but that wind is fading and the blessing is becoming a curse. you see all of that money is morphing into all the parked ships off the coast of california. all that money allowed workers to take time on, become nor introspective and emerge demanding more money to go at work or stay home. all of that money, it helped
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drive corporate profits an drove the stock market but now we're learning the harsh realities of when a bird soars too high not on its own wings. inflation expectations are soaring, economic confidence waning and tomorrow marks the last day of those stimmie checks going out. the latest installment of the child tax credit. those checks hit the banks tomorrow. that leaves me wondering how much cash is actually left over. now if the consumer is tapped out will they dip into savings? will they use credit, the greatest inorganic economy of our lifetime can quickly become a conundrum because persistently high prices we're dealing with right now, increasingly higher interest rates coming upon us. potentially a slow economy. that is an interesting mix next year. perhaps we're in a marriage of heaven and hell. the first step to this divorce starts tomorrow when we climb over the stimmie cliff. i have heath that herzog,
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kristin bense. i have to give you props, you've been saying for weeks, what we're seeing in the retail stocks, they're under immense amount of pressure. what happens now? where do we go from here? >> i think you're going to have a big issue coming in january with all of this supply shock or the inventory that has been stuck as you said offshore. how are retailers going to handle that? with an 18% increase in apparel i don't know how many consumers will be rushing out to buy that when that hits. so it will be a bit of a supply shock to both the retailer to the consumer. >> so we'll go from no supply to too much supply? >> exactly like chris rock said, married and miserable, single and lonely, you decide. charles: all right. i will give you props, you introduced me and the world to the word omni channel at least a decade ago. we've seen things expand like curbside pickup. we're seeing absolute collapse
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in foot traffic and subside model is failing. what works now? >> we talked about 10 years ago, e-commerce. we've seen a steady incline of the statistics on e-commerce. i will give you an example. data catalyst institute came out with a study of 68% of small businesses have a web presence, they have a web store. so it is not just about small businesses having a web store. even these larger big box retailers, having these web stores. it is really becoming bifurcated in terms of these stand alone, brick-and-mortar stores and e-commerce stores because it is all about data, charles. it is all about the customer, the customer numbers there. so it is becoming, like two different types of, what is most important, you want sales but you also want the data and customer information as well. charles: so in march americans had $5.76 trillion in savings.
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the savings rate was 26.6%. in october it was down to $1 trillion and 7% savings rate. so i will go back to you real quick, hitha, i want to get you both in. is the consumer tapped out? >> i don't think the consumer tapped out just yet. you have to remember we spent two years basically in a state of frugal fa tech. despite the fact we had a lot of stimulus coming at us i think we're a society likes to spend. come one way or another the consumer is going to spend it. charles: kristin? >> i think it's a tale of two economies. she brought up bifurcated, right? we have a bifurcated market. the high-end consumer saved their money, they're flush and fine. the low end consumer when the stimmies run out we'll see the reaction hit the market. charles: is that what we're already seeing, kristin? we saw department stores get hit
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pretty good. macy's kohl's, some of the stores erupted over the last year are coming down pretty hard. is that anticipation of the stimmies running out and the consumer running out of money. >> definitely. they can see over the horizon. so these folks will have to go back to work to take those jobs even though they see the mass resignation, when the stimmie's run out, the rent is still due first of the month regardless of christmas or santa, whatever. definitely we're seeing the reaction along with supply chain issues as well. charles: hitha, tell me what is the winner, retailer doing well this holiday season, we can do well next year no matter what the macro circumstances are? >> in this instance, charles, i will go back to the e-commerce play and i think it is shopify. the stock is up 24% year-to-date. these are because all of these small businesses, specifically on retail, are going to shopify
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in order to come up and establish their means of selling. so we've seen an increase in that. also etsy. you've seen the numbers increase. you've seen a lot of sellers go on the platform of etsy and also a lot of buyers on it. it also has local long-term play. charles: you know what, i agree with you on both of those, 1000%. i don't know how you read my mind. they're at the top of my buy list. shopify had the best thanksgiving. etsy, i made a mistake selling it once around 200. i won't make the mistake again. you're two of the best. thank you both very much. it seems the only thing both sides agree on these days that consumer prices are causing americans excruciating pain. i will talk to larry kudlow about that. amc, gamestop are smacked down pretty good but should wall street play taps for the investing apes? they did it once before and it was a mistake. we'll be right back.
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code today, moved from a dove to a hawk. he entered princeton at age 15. has a reputation for listening and earning. today he made major news speaking out the exclusively, excessively dovish policies he in fact embraced a long time ago advocated a long time. in an op-ed in bloomberg, the federal reserve faces a troubling 1965 parallel, the former minneapolis said the fed failed to stop runaway inflation of the 1970s and risks doing so now. joining me the host of "kudlow," larry kudlow. the policy prescription being espoused, he says a steep path, go forward, go big now and it will get out of their control? >> he is 100% right. he is a very smart guy. i hate to quote john maynard keynes in your presence, but
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keynes said when the facts change i change. charles: right. >> so 2010, 11, 12, was a very, very long time ago. so i give kocherlakota a lot of credit. i know the guy a little bit. the fed must act quickly and aggressively, specifically it should be prepared to initiate a a sequence of meeting by meeting rate increases in the first half of next year and to keep going until inflation comes back downr near2%. charles: right. >> he is right. this meeting announced tomorrow should end qe, end it, cold turkey, no more bond buying, start raising rates, maybe 50 basis points in january. if they don't, charles, then this will get away from them completely t will take years. it will be embedded the way it was in the 1970's. that is what kocherlakota is saying. if they don't move now, it will be too late. i will add one other little
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thing politically. jay powell has been reappointed. he will be easily confirmed by the senate. now they will start pouring left-wing progressive woke people to the federal reserve board, okay? but it will take a long time for them to get confirmed. in fact, in fact, the vice chairman lael brainard may have trouble getting appointed. she won't even admit she is a capitalist. here is my point, powell has three months or so before the new crowd comes in to get this done using the reserve bank presidents as his base. he has got to do it now. if he waits and waits it will be a disaster, just saying. charles: so in this article though they admit that there will be pain to the markets and it feels, you and i talked a lot about how this fed has become beholden not just the powell fed but the yellen fed and the bernanke fed and the greenspan fed to a degree, they have become beholden to the stock market. is there the kind of will out there to see the market getting
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slammed as they try to do this course correction? >> you know, that's a hard question is there the will? i think jay powell can go back to being independent. so we'll see about that. his job is to fight inflation right now. charles: right. >> inflation is the number one issue. his job is not climate change. it is not woke employment policies or diversity or equity. it is to fight inflation. the market you know, if the market comes to believe that the fed will take decisive, aggressive action right now, then you will have a correction and things will get better. markets look ahead as you well know. so i think the problem here is, drip, drip, slow death. that would be a killer. charles: there are some though who worry that once the fed starts to hike, whatever it is, no matter how aggressive it is initially, they always go too far. >> perhaps, i don't disagree with that. kocherlakota says in the piece it will have to go above 2 1/2%
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which is what all these presidents are saying. go to 3% a little higher. get it done. start with 50, ring the bell. say we're serious. the other side of the coin there is a very good chance with these terrible inflation numbers, pp i-10% today, cpi 7% friday, cp cp -- cbo, really a 5 trillion-dollar a bill. charles: 3 trillion in debt. >> there is a good chance we'll save america, kill the bill on one side and the federal reserve can do its job. the fed has been the enabler. kevin warsh was on my show yesterday. charles: i saw that. >> he wrote a great piece in the journal. they have been the enabler for all the government spending with m-2 growing whatever, 15%. they bout 60% of the bonds. this has to stop, stop. the other point kocherlakota makes you're getting a wage price spiral, a wage price spiral. if that is built in embedded in
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expectations that is a killer. very hard to get out of that. charles: you have one dove who saw the light. maybe others will as well. >> when the facts change i change. charles: look at you, you're influencing the legislative side, the federal reserve. >> i'm having the most fun in my life. keynes also said inflation is the cruelest tax of all. he had some very good wisdom before he became a concerns seian, he was quite good. charles: there is a poll out how people measure pain, larry. 54% measure it through the cost of prices of goods and services. >> yeah. charles: only 10% measure it by their own personal finance. that is amazing. this inflation to your point is crushing all americans across every line you can think of. so. >> very widespread. diffusion, if there was a diffusion index for the cpi it would be 75 or 80% and this idea from janet yellen, who used to be a pretty good fed chairperson, but now show sold
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her soul in the biden treasury department. she is saying only goods, not services. take a look at ism services report. holy cow. get with it. charles: love these conversations thanks a lot. folks get a whole lot more of this later on today on "kudlow" 4:00 p.m. eastern every day on fox business. we'll be right back. >> thank you. charles: thank you. ♪. issor - to put the financial well-being of you and your family first. i promise to serve, not sell. i promise our relationship will be one of partnership and trust. i am a fiduciary, not just some of the time, but all of the time. charles schwab is proud to support the independent financial advisors who are passionately dedicated to helping people achieve their financial goals. visit
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♪. charles: all right, folks, the so-called neil stocks have been hammered of rate -- meme stocks. there are fewer diamond hands. the investor revolution has been focused on these names in part. listen, face it, there is a major successes, a lot of money made at the beginning of the year. we're now something akin to a moment of truth. so i want to bring in investing youtuber, investing ape matt kohrs. there is an old saying on wall street selling begets selling. it is on full display with amc, gamestop and others. what do you think is going on here? >> i think recently there are two major things going on. first of all with amc, the past two or three weeks the short interest is rising, which is more supply. obviously with more supply the price is going to go down.
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amc has just under 20% short interest. gme has 16% short interest. on the other side of it, i think big entities, whales, big institutions, hedge funds are kind of reacting to what we're seeing in the overall market. i was listening to your previous segment and inflation is extreme right now. i think everyone is waiting for the fed result tomorrow. i wouldn't be that surprised, i don't think it is implausible if some big players are pivoting out of high-risk equity classes or amc, gme, would be considered a high-risk equity class. charles: i've done a number of stories on this show using my own experience of really buying and holding and i always make the point, a lot of names that i made big money on were against me, sometimes for years. so the point for me it is a lot harder than simply posting tweets. so how confident are you that the ape community is going to stay the course? by the way i've been kicked off twitter for weeks.
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i apologize not reaching out to all of you guys but i have faith they will but how confident are you? >> my confidence level is unwavering at 100%, beyond the hopeful future success of amc and gm e, i think a core pillar of the ape movement is fighting against a market that is riddled with off-exchange trading. the opaqueness of ftd reports, the high concentration of power in market makers doing nothing more than increasing fragilitity of the system you and i love. i am fighting against all the issues that need to be fixed. >> it is a damn shame i can't get gary gensler on the show. amc ceo, adam aron, are you surprised, you know him, let down how much stock he sold? i told you for the record, i am. he intimated he would sell shares but not as much as he sold so far. >> i get that because on the
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higher level, of course media who doesn't like what is going on are going to use that as some ammo. on a personal level though i guess i was raised to not watch another man's pockets. we known this since 2/2, he is 67. there is estate planning. future investing involves 3 million shares for him. at a personal level i don't care much but the way a lot of media will distort it i find it pretty frustrating. >> matt, i wish we had more time. i appreciate you coming on and we're going to talk again real soon. hopefully i will be on twitter, we can tweet at each other as well. good talk, my friend. i appreciate it. >> thank you. charles: folks, skipping the crowds, shopping online we already talked about that, here is the thing, the scammers are waiting for you. though want to steal your money. they have been doing it really well. we'll tell you how to protect yourself. cybersecurity stocks, i have the ones you should look foreand all
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my picks are when we come back. ♪ ♪ i see trees of green ♪ ♪ red roses too ♪ ♪ i see them bloom ♪ ♪ for me and you ♪ ♪ and i think to myself ♪ ... that's why at vanguard, you're more than just an investor, you're an owner so you can build a future for those you love. vanguard. become an owner. your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit ♪♪ ma it starts with a mother'sn. determination to treat her baby's eczema. and grows into a family business that helps thousands more.
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charles: so how many online shopping projected to rise 10% this year with top $200 billion for the first time, of course the rush to spend online also gives scammers an opportunity to steal your money lydia hu is with us on how you can protect yourself from this cyber crime spree, during this holiday season.
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lidia? reporter: hi there, charles. if the grinch isn't going to steal christmas this year, these cyber criminals are sure going to try. the better business bureau has identified what it calls the 12 scams of christmas, here is the most common fraudulent schemes found online designed to steal your money or personal information. here are three to watch out for. misleading social media ads, created by scammers advertising products that are counterfeit or much different than advertise, you buy from them and you may never get anything at all. another variation that's similar is a fake look-alike website, you maybe invited to visit it that looks like main brand but it's not at all. the website will take your information and money and offer no real product. now, finally, never believe those promises of a free gift card, scammers impersonate legitimate companies ask for your information and send you a card but they are just taking your information to very likely, later hack you.
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now the fbi has pointers on how to protect yourself from these seasonal shopping scams. they include avoiding cryptocurrency and wire transfer s, they suggest that paying with a credit card is always the best way, to your due dilly diligence especially if you're buying from a new business new to you and check your banking statements regularly so you can catch anything as fast as possible and of course, as always, charles, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is. charles: it's a great rule of thumb, lidia, thank you very much. so, let's talk about the invest ing side i want to bring in constellation research founder ray wong, along with market strategist shana sissel. ray, cybersecurity, today, the number two loser is ft &t, but these stocks have been on fire. i've been waiting for them to pullback. is this still a great spot to be for investors? >> yeah, definitely is a great spot. there's a little bit overhang, we're waiting for the fed to come back but these stocks are
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going well from 20-40% we saw z- scaler get added to the nasdaq 100, cloud strike has been doing well and pal o palo alto networks is a winner, they are going to be important and that's where the cyber criminals are hacking creating ransomware attacks. charles: shana? >> yeah, i agree with ray. z-scaler is one of our favorite names a couple months ago we sold it out of our portfolio because we just made so much money on it, it's down 25% from its recent highs but it is trading at a pretty elevated inflated multiple and in a high inflation environment, we're cautious on these high growth names which tend to under perform and when inflation is elevated so, it's attractive absolutely, but i'm not sure i'm a buyer just yet. charles: so we put it on our watch list by the way i did see it got a downgrade this morning so i forgot which firm did it but i'm with you guys let's put it on the watch list and at some point leap all over it. let's talk about the nasdaq itself though. it's breaking down now even
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those big four horsemen or five kind of names, they are starting to succumb including apple, its been upgraded three times in two days two firms says the stock of the year next year, they are $3 trillion, so is this the big flush, is this the last part of the big flush that, you know, the tech is already here, shana. is this the last element of it that we've gotta go through to maybe start to see the dust settle and maybe move backup. >> well i think as i alluded to previously, in a high-inflation environment, growth stocks do not performance well as some of the more cyclical counterparts, so you have to keep that in mind , as long as inflation remains elevated and we continue to have disruptions in supply chain, i be cautious on these high multiple high fliers but the long term story is positive, so if you're in it for the long term, looking for weakness as an opportunity to buy is always a good idea, you know, buy the dip, but at the moment, i'd be very focused on this
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inflation number, and i want to see what the fed says before i make any decisions on whether i'm ready to jump in. charles: real quick before i go to ray, shana what would you be buying and there's no chance you can make the kind of money peoples made on these growth stocks so are you saying we be selling for perhaps less gains but more safety and comfort? >> um, well, lking at some of the cyclicals some of the names that benefit from higher rates, we just added to a position in d eere, amazon right now, so there's names that we do like. we're just staying away from the ones that have really elevated multiples, you know, z- scaler's multiple is like 532 on a forward basis. charles: [laughter] at least i do have a p and e. >> it does have earnings. charles: i've got 20 seconds i've gotta hit my man ray on the metaverse. nike is down with the metaverse, they bought a virtual shoe company, you know, do you have any non-tech names that could be metaverse names, you only got 15
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seconds to tell me. the move studios are going to be part of the multi-verse so think of disney, franchises that are out there, think about anything on the entertainment side, sony pictures is another area if you look where that comes across and then think about anyone that's able to do streaming, be able to create those new types of areas like roblox. charles: the good news with nike being on the metaverse is they always had my size, always run into trouble with that, ray, shana, thank you both very much. liz claman, in the metaverse i get the house i want, the sneakers i want, i get everything i want, now just got to figure out how to get in there and get back out. liz: i just want the chocolate i want, lots of it. charles: they could figure that out, i'm sold. liz: i'm there. i'll see you in the verse, thank, charles. sizzling hot wholesale inflation numbers sending wall street traders to the sell button as the fed kicks off its two day meeting, the nasdaq is really taking the biggest hit right now as far as percentages are concerned it's down about one and a third percent or


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