tv Making Money With Charles Payne FOX Business February 25, 2022 2:00pm-3:00pm EST
the truncated time. best selling author as not, smarter not harder, navy seal maxim to elevate critical thinking, so he covers it all, the brains and the passion for what's going on in this world. right now, what's going on in this world or our corner of it is dow up about 800 points. now, again, it could be in the eye of the beholder some are hoping that the federal reserve can maybe slow down these rate increases, we'll see what charles payne thinks of that in the next hour. charles: hey neil thank you very much my friend and good afternoon, everyone i am charles payne and this is "making money" breaking right now after breathing a sigh of relief u.s. actions against russia wouldn't bite yesterday investors today on on the prow for stuff to by, in fact yesterday's reversal absolutely stunning might have also been a wakeup call to the excessive carnage in this market so did someone say buy the abyss i'm asking my market watchers what they are buying and i'll also have a tutorial with one of my favorite guests where you
should know to buy, sell or hold particularly when your favorite stocks are in freefall, and if you thought what was happening in europe would pause the american oil producers wait until you hear what adam schiff is saying to justify his clean energy push, plus a debate of the ages bitcoin versus gold, crypto bull with us along with peter schiff, and they are going to duke it out all that and so much more on "making money." it has been one of the wildest weeks for investors in years highlighted by yesterday's session one for the record books the s&p 500 opened more than 2%, hit a six-month low and rallied up more than 1% that's only happened two other times in history. meanwhile this morning, a trio of major economic releases beating consensus, personal income spending, durable goods orders and finally the final read from february and consumer sentiment, now here is the rub. beating the street and being
good news, not always the same thing in fact just ask holders of slew and slew of companies that the posted pretty good earnings mostly beating and offering up guidance only to watch those stocks get pummeled. still, i have seen that there are signs that this market wants to turnaround especially the most beaten down names. will this week go down as the turn or just another interesting week in the bear market joining me now to discuss nicole webb, david nelson and keith fitz-gerald. let's first talk about the latest headline risk of course the russian invasion. you know, it was clear yesterday around this time, in fact that president biden was not going to use stronger sanctions on oil against vladimir putin. you saw oil prices come down sharply, we saw bond yields zoom much higher. the russian stock market, the m oex went up 17.5% in the next two hours and of course our market followed so nicole is this already a non-event as far as the smart is concerned? >> i mean, charles in terms of
downside risk, it seems that way i think we extracted clarity on top of a market that had already moved down to forward pe's of what, 19? so yesterday, we got what we needed which is the worst case scenario is off the table. it looks like the fed is going to move forward in march 25 basis points and that story of america said seven rate hikes this year that just doesn't seem possible in a slowing economy with rising prices and all of that bodes really well for mega technology and we saw the nasdaq do the absolute best yesterday. charles: we'll come back to you on these more specific items but i want to get keith and david in here in terms of russia. the russia threat, david, is it over? >> unknown. i think when we look back at this i think history is going to treat just not putin badly but also the united states and europe. a lot of mistakes made going into this geopolitical conflict. this was the most telegraphed
geopolitical event of our lifetime so i think in some ways , to your point, a lot of this was derisked. most of the selling was done in the days and weeks ahead and i think you're right. the trigger for the rally was some of the tougher sanctions just aren't going to take hold because stocks don't have a conscience. they care about economic output. charles: keith? >> yeah, i'm going to be with david on that one. i think the markets ahead of its skiis. i don't think we've seen the worst of it. russians do not give up easily and i'm very very leary here that if you're a golf player the time to keep the ball in the fareway not in the rough. charles: ukrainians don't give up easily, we know they are already putting up a hell of a fight but will that interrupt the stock market at any point from here on out? >> well i tell you what its got the potential to because the first missile or first shot that goes beyond that border is going to be a global event and it could be catastrophic. i don't want to say it's going to happen but the possibility we be remiss to prepare for. charles: so let's talk about today's data, nicole.
maybe spending came in better-than-expected but savings also declined. sentiment beat consensus but it was the lowest level in a decade by the way pending home sales an absolute disaster declining more than 9%. what's the overall takeaway, your takeaway on the health and trajectory of this economy? >> yeah, i think the comments, you know, that we just opened with, which is we have a very confused consumer, which direction do we go and faces so many unknowns whether it is inflation, supply chain as the lingering of covid, a missile that crosses another border, you know, until there's more clarity in a roadmap for the consumer, there's going to be this teeter totter between a lot of good strong economic data but i'm also incredibly conscience of the fact that this could go the other direction, and i think that we're going to continue to see this narrative in 2020 where
we just don't know, we have a lot of volatility that follows it. charles: 2022 has been a year to buckle up and to that note, david, s&p 500 we came into the week in correction territory , which obviously underscores the fact that we're vulnerable, but history has shown that overwhelmingly it's also where the market typically makes a stand and more often than not turns higher. which way are you leaning toward right now? >> i think to your point the bottoming process is in place; however, whatever you think about yesterday's trading action and today's follow through, you know, we're not going back to some of the insanity levels, some of the things happening last year. financial conditions will tighten and i think to the point made earlier, we got within 100 points of what i would call fair value about 4,000 s&p points that's about 18 times forward earnings. pretty clear big money wants to get in somewhere around those levels. charles: keith speaking of which , 37% of the s&p below the 200 day moving average
coming into today's session, 24% below the 50 day moving average. at what point has the great reset happened? is it overdone? we know markets are over valued everyone agrees, but has the reset has been overdone? >> i don't think the reset has been overdone. the question is, has the future been priced in accurately and i think the answer is no because history, to your point shows very clearly, that markets like to make a stand if and when the valuations are correct. we are right at that point if you are looking at how big tech especially performs in the future, the irony here, charles, is that big tech led the recovery rally yesterday, it's continuing to support it today. big tech will trump value overtime, every time so the irony in the face of uncertainty is we're right back to where we started six months ago and everybody couldn't sell it back. charles: to that point i want to get back to everything being overdone. punishment for missing earnings consensus has been severe. nicole, there are a lot of names
out there that have been absolutely crushed. is there anything that you're looking at, something on your list you think hey, they beat on the top line, beat on the bottom line, offer great guidance and the stock was hammered, maybe something you're spying to buy? >> yeah, i mean there's a couple of them out there, and one that i talked to you before that we still really like which is adobe. they didn't give this exuberant guidance but they gave good guidance that had been unjustly punished and they have such a large breadth of consumers. we also like qualcom. regardless of the mark rosenstein environment that we're operating in we'll be rolling out 5g for the next couple of years and that's just to name a couple of them that we're looking at. charles: let me stick with you real quick, nicole, you're a wealth investment expert this is what your firm does and i saw a video last weekend. it's like one of the hottest videos on tik tok saying that people are actually wasting their time maxing out their 401
(k) even if their employer is matching that. any thoughts on that because a lot of people are starting to buy into that. >> yeah, i've seen it, charles and i get their angle, i do, but at the same time, i don't know why anyone would leave any part of their compensation package on the table. money is money, and i don't want to get long-winded on this but out of sight, out of mind, the tax deductibility of those contributions, your dollar cost averaging in, it's a great place to have broad suppressed indices if you are of that demographic watching tik tok you've probably got years ahead of you. don't leave any of the money the company you're working for is offering you. charles: all righty. the russel 2000 might be the only index that finishes the week in the green. i'm loving the action there. i know keith this is where you buy a lot of names. anything that you're looking at right now? >> well i tell you what.
uncharacteristically there's a lot of stuff i'm looking at but there's very little i'm buying outside of the big names like apple and microsoft because again, to my point i don't think the markets done with this and i want to prepare by being safe. i want to invest with one eye on the exits if that makes sense. charles: keith fitz-gerald, i hope you have a good weekend my man. this is like the most pessimistic i've ever heard you. you're making me a little bit sad but i get where you're coming from. you all have been fantastic nicole, david, keith have a wonderful weekend thank you very much, and i want to alert the audience that a historic moment at the white house. judge ketanji brown jackson will be the first black woman to serve in the courts 232 year history if she's confirmed senate democrats are planning to move quickly, in the confirmation process to replace retiring justice stephen breyer. congratulations, an amazing
feet. here is the thing with a big debate coming up. i own bitcoin and gold and i'm struggling because i don't own a lot but i want to add to them. i have one of the top bulls on bitcoin and one of the top bulls when it comes to gold and they are duking it out at 2:45 plus can the fed get a handle on runaway inflation and is now the time to finally ditch global ism once and for all? the great peter maurici is going to weigh in, he's next.
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charles: so we've got mixed data on inflation this morning with the pce and personal income spending report actually higher on headline and core, both going back to really, 1980s, early, where consumer inflation expectations actually eased, which is good news. meanwhile voting members of the fomc also appear to be mixed on whether to go 50 basis points or not when they get together next month, at least three of them right now though are leaning in that direction. with me now university of maryland economist peter morici and peter, you know, i know you think the fed has already behind the curve, so how critical is that with that in mind, is it for them to go 50 basis points?
>> oh, i think it be very helpful for hem to go 50 basis points, but even with that, let's remember what paul volcker did in the same situation. over eight months he didn't go a point and a half or two. he went 7 percentage points. now, the economy did slow, he's back and then he pumped it again and went up around 17 or 18. it takes dramatic action to crack the back of an inflation like this , when you've got these kind of supply chain problems. simply there's too much money chasing too few goods. charles: so depending on where oil goes from here, there are signs that the cpi, consumer price index, maybe topping out. how would that inform where the fed goes afterwards? >> well oil topping out be helpful, however let's remember there's a ripple effect , a downstream effect from oil that's yet to be seen, for example, with farm products, fertilizer, fuel for farming and so fourth, herbicides and what not. they are shipping, the rates have gone up. do you think if the price of diesel comes down by 20% the shipping rates are coming
down, with the omicron ripping through ship crews? i don't think so. that's not going to be a magic formula here. charles: so you know, another thing, peter i wanted to talk to you about because the focus really has mostly been on gasoline, but food prices have gone through the roof, in fact the grocery index at an all-time high so what the heck is going on there? what turns that lower? >> well the thing is the fuel prices go through the food chain with a lag, because the farmers have to buy fertilizer and herbicide and fuel their tractors and so forth, so it's silly to think we just look at gas prices which react very quickly to see that we see the full impact of oil. also we didn't realize how rigid going into this our supply chain for food is. for example, there's one group of farmers that does regs for restaurants and another group of farmers that does eggs for home use and if people start eating their eggs at home they don't have the egg flats and so forth, we went to the store the other day and couldn't get
hactaid milk. charles: you bring up something really interesting and maybe i could blame michael dell but this whole notion of just in time manufacturing that's one of the ways he stayed ahead, kept low overhead, everyone adopted that approach and we see it across-the-board. have the last two years sort of been at least some kind of signal to corporate america, maybe have some things in stock? >> absolutely they need to have more flexibility in their supply chains and some buffer. just in time works in a static or gradually-changing world one where the stuff bought this year is not that different than the stuff that's bought last year, because let's face it. the people that run logistics departments are not rocket scientists when it comes to looking out the window and see ing how the world is going to change. they basically look at last year and think about how this year is going to go in terms of how much more do i make. not how much different is the consumer going to be? so just in time doesn't work in
this kind of very dynamic and fluid world. charles: all right peter morici, thank you so much, my friend. still to come, we're going to give you important lessons in investing, when to buy, sell, and hold so get out your pad and paper also coming up democrats have tunnel vision when it comes to climate change, but when does the toll on middle class america matter because it should right now. we'll be right back.
charles: so the biden administration war on fossil fuel sending gas prices soaring in the u.s. dependent even now on russian oil, but not stopping democrats from renewing their green energy push, hillary vaughn on capitol hill with more hillary? reporter: hi charles well president biden is not second guessing his decision to put restrictions on u.s. oil &
gas to pursue his climate goals even though it's clear that putin is willing to use and exploit russia's energy dominance to take control and invade ukraine. even some democrats in congress are on board with staying the course on this strategy. >> is it time for us to abandon climate-focused energy policies like a drill ban, like killing pipelines and instead increase u.s. oil & gas productions in full force? >> i don't think the response to putin making war on ukraine ought to be the dismantling of our protections against climate change. i do think what it ought to prompt is a wholesale effort to ween europe off of russian oil & gas, so that russia can no longer use that as leverage against europe. reporter: but republicans are calling out the hypocrisy, senator tom cotton tweeting this president biden is protecting
russian energy, but he sanctions american energy and cotton is right. in the newest round of sanctions biden gave russian energy immunity from them carving out exemptions for crude oil, natural gas, coal, petroleum and even wood is considered an energy source in these exemptions that biden presented for his sanctions that he announced, charles. charles: hillary, thank you very much. now i want to bring in the founder of michael lee strategies michael lee, and you know, just your thoughts on that here is the thing. yesterday, around 2:15 the market turned around and it really went up big time right? because president biden even though he was laying out sanctions, listen, he remained adimate that it wasn't going to be tough and not even going after oil and yet, there's this persistent battle against american producers, even challenging them yesterday, not
to raise their prices. >> well charles, when your politics run up against reality and hit a wall is what we're sei said it the other day. our agenda is going to come at a cost or something along those lines. it's absolutely coming at a cost , and this former president trump said it best. energy is power, right? and the reason why you can't move stronger against russia right now to prevent them is because all of europe is dependent on their natural gas for heat, so what are you really going to do to them to stop them from taking over ukraine. charles: yeah, that part listen i'm just saying i don't understand why the war on american fossil fuels in the name of climate change when we know it can put us in a predicament to need more russian oil and its put germany in a bind and now they can't take actions to stop the movement if
everyone agrees is a threat to the entire globe. let's switch to the markets for a moment, because obviously, they look a lot better but still , under the surface, pretty awful shape. i want the audience to know yesterday at the close, only 50 stocks on the new york stock exchange and the nasdaq were at new highs. 2,132 were at new lows, but when i see this , michael, i get a little excited. do you think opportunity or pending doom? >> so look, i think we're in a bit of no mans land right now and i think inflation in the fed is a key driver and other things like russia and ukraine are more in our face, but you definitely are seeing multiple compression all over the place. there's a lot of economic uncertain and there's more uncertain as to what the capital markets from a liquidity standpoint are going to look like and that makes it really hard to make convincing bets on where the markets going to go whether it be lower or higher. charles: with that in mind then
are you buying anything or just sitting on cash right now? >> no, absolutely buying. i'm overweight staples, overweight energy, still own some tech but i think energy is the safest play right here for what we just talked about. you have like kind of irrational liberalism forcing this unnecessary pain on america to push oil prices higher, and as a result, you have a massive supply-demand imbalance. you just had it up on the screen goldman saying just on supply oil could go to $125 a barrel and you also have contango in the futures curve and people are willing to pay for the physical you'll front more than the futures contract which is like clear in your face indication of supply constraints , so there's a lot of reasons why oil can go up and why contango can happen and if you're seeing it right in front of you have the xle paying you almost a 4% dividend, chevron
and exxon-mobile the two largest holdings both paying 4% dividend s, mid-teens multiples with the wind at their sales, so it's a really easy way and kind of an uncertain time to know that you're probably going to make good money. charles: i should point staples looking pretty good, proctor and gamble up huge, michael always appreciate it. so members of congress continue to push this war on fossil fuels we do have germany as the ultimate cautionary tale, for what happens when a nation pursues a climate change-driven energy policy. check out german electricity rates. i mean, this has only gotten worse and it's going to get worse because just today they closed three of their last six nuclear power plants. joining me now former special assistant to president george w. push pippa malgren, i've been railing against this madness and it's crushing the american middle class. your thoughts on why there can't
be a more sensible approach to this? >> well, this is a great question. look fundamentally, i think most people are on board with the idea that they want to move in the right direction, right? they do want a world that protects the environment while getting everybodies energy needs met, but the problem is how do you get from a to b? the good news is technological innovation is making it easier everyday. the bad news is that we're in a world now where we have such serious supply constraints and lack of alternative easy to use alternative right now, and we have inflation in the background already, so this adds to that inflation picture, so the good news again, is if the oil price goes up, it becomes much more viable to invest in alternative energy, so it really encourages green outcomes at low cost to the society. the bad news is you've got higher energy prices and i think we're going to see that for a
while for a whole bunch of reasons. charles: and the wildcard though is when you artificially make them higher, and you force this pain on people who are living paycheck to paycheck. i just think it's unfair, but it is what it is for now. you know, yesterday the biden administration though did not go after swift. they didn't do any sanctions on russian oil, and some think it's because they fear cyberattacks, that be the response from russia , if we were to halt the swift thing. you actually posted a piece at the beginning of the week, electrons are the new bullets. i've got to be honest it sounds like they might be the new atomic bombs tell us more because it was so fascinating. >> oh, thank you. well and i did say, you know, digital is the new nuclear. this is a world where creating cyberattacks may not only be about you not being able to access a particular website. it maybe about not being able to access the web at all, and i think that this new kind of warfare which we have not really experienced and certainly not
head-to-head between super power s before, is definitely giving all sides caution about how to proceed, and the thing is , president putin is being relentless in his pursuit of his objectives which in my opinion are much wider than ukraine alone, and he is very interested by the way in energy supplies and i'm keeping a close eye on the eastern mediterranean and the gas fields there, for example. charles: so to that point, this morning, vladimir putin offered to send a delegation to minsk and some say he really wants to negotiate a surrender, not peace. you also, this morning, have written something about the post -cold war settlement and now at this stage being unacceptable to russia and china they are really trying to re shape the pecking order, if you will. how will it look if they can impose their will? >> well, this is a super interesting question and they have not specified what the new
world order in their opinion ought to look like. what they have said is they don't like the current system, and again, to be fair to them, the world has changed very dramatically since the end of the cold war and they can see why it should be reconfigured but obviously this is the hottest political topic in geopolitics and what's interesting is china and russia have aligned so closely on this , and so whether the u.s. will be able to persist with the current organizational structure of the post-world economic order is seriously in question, even if putin gives up or is not surrender so much as his objectives and then he stops. even then, this question will remain and i don't think it's going to go away and i think that candidates for the next u.s. presidential election will campaign on this issue. charles: maybe if someone brings up russia no one will say it was an old policy. that won't come back to haunt
any of the presidential candidates. pippa, the world is changing thank you have much we appreciate your expertise. thank you. charles: one of the most popular questions that i get from viewer s all the time is how do i decide when to let a stock go, particularly if it's going to hurt? we'll try and help you with those answers when we come back. also if you didn't catch my special "making money, black history and achieving a dream" it will repair tomorrow at 7:00 p.m. eastern time. i've got amazing feedback i'd really like you to watch it if you get a chance. we'll be right back.
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tell you people are just afraid at this point. now, it's against his back drop, that investors are grappling on what to do, the portfolios are certainly deemed up, and they want to know whether they should stick with these names or even stick in the market at all. joining me to discuss this , sure invest ceo rob luna. rob first let's start with the 54% of individual investors are bearish right now in this market over the next six months. what do you say to someone who tells you that? >> well i mean it makes sense charles. we really haven't seen this type of volatility in a long time. if you look at the last bear market during the pandemic, it only lasted about 31 days, so investors are getting nervous, we see a lot of new money come into the market during the pandemic, and they haven't experienced this before and if you look at this , this is usually a contrarian indicator meaning, when everybody is negative, that means incremental ly you have a lot more people on the sideline, a lot more people selling, that's actually the time you want to start buying, conversely when everyone is bullish and dancing in the streets you want to take
some chips off the table. charles: hold on, you're empathetic and you understand why they feel the way they do and you give a watered down version of patent speech get out there though, get back in the game. >> [laughter] yeah, you know what? i've just been doing this for 25 years a long time like you charles and when i first started as a young trader, i used to get scared at these moments too i'd panic and sell at the bottom and look everywhere year at my p&l and see myself doing the same thing time and time again and what i realized over a long period of time like warren buffett says this is when you want to be an aggressive buyer when you're looking at companies and the narrative hasn't changed and everyone is throwing them out when you have to step in. charles: rob, one of your first appearances on this show you were pounding the table on a company called farfetched limit ed and it rallied from april 2 of 2020 to february of last year. i think a rally 970%, then it went into an absolute free-fall and of course it's not the only
name i'm sitting on a bunch of disasters like that as well. walk us through a couple things here. first, when you hold the stock that's lurching in the free-fall , when do you decide to cut bait or i'm going to ride it out. what epidemic hads you make that decision? >> it's a great question, and we could actually use farfetched as an example. obviously it takes a little bit of time to teach people how to buy, sell, or hold but let me tell you that stock for example. it first started as a long term growth theme if you look at the luxury market 380 billion, these guys are really the long term platform play for that, so i like the overall thesis long term. i looked where the stock is valued and when i brought it on to the show, i thought there could at least be 100% upside which wound up playing out. so when i entered it was first of all based off of thesis, secondarily valuations, having at least a 20% upside which is my criteria. then once it hit that, charles and started to go way over that, for me at that point it was well beyond what i thought fair valuations were, i then used the
technical indicator to then stop me out of the stock. charles: okay and that's when you used to control your greed and i think it's important to bring up, because people cannot naturally do that so let the stock do it for you. i've got about a minute and a half to go maybe a minute. farfetched now is up 40% today and i know you recently went back in was it a hunch or was there a signal? >> yeah, so i've been watching the stock i think it's tremendously overvalued. i don't love buying stocks up 40 % but i honestly think in the next 12 months there's at least another 50% upside. i bought the stock on wednesday, around 15, prior to earnings. now, i went into that charles not knowing what earnings was going to look like, but i knew the stock was tremendously under valued. i believe in the long term theme and when you know around earnings that's when you get your big pot. i stepped up and took some risk and that's what you have to do is take risk on things like this charles: before i let you go are you looking at more ideas, feeling like maybe now is the time for people watching to increase their bottom fishing
here? >> yeah, you have to, charles. i'm cutting names like chevron and names like proctor and gamble that have done really well but all that's priced in there right now. i'm picking up names like roblox , names i bought this week like palo alto networks, what's interesting about that you look at what's going on with russia, you have lockheed martin is rallying but the cybersecurity plays are doing even better. that's where you want to be putting your money right now for long term growth. charles: rob i love we can do these segments for the viewers. thanks so much have a great weekend. >> you too charles. charles: for a shortened market week and obviously very crazy, coming up, my takeaway on i don't know, let's say the heart of the market, if there is such a thing. plus, if you're a bitcoin bull, or a gold bug, tweet me at cb payne, a hell of a show down coming up, laya helpurn and peter s dr. schiff. buckle up and get popcorn we'll
first psoriasis, then psoriatic arthritis. it was really holding me back. standing up... ...even walking was tough. my joints hurt. i was afraid things were going to get worse. i was always hiding, and that's just not me. not being there for my family, that hurt. woooo! i had to do something. i started cosentyx®. i'm feeling good. watch me. cosentyx helps people with psoriatic arthritis move, look, and feel better. it targets more than just joint pain and treats the multiple symptoms like joint swelling and tenderness, back pain, helps clear skin and helps stop further joint damage. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections—some serious
—and the lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms or if you've had a vaccine or plan to. tell your doctor if your crohn's disease symptoms develop or worsen. serious allergic reactions may occur. it's good to be moving on. watch me. move, look, and feel better. ask your rheumatologist about cosentyx. charles: all right, so lately, gold has been shining and bitcoin has been struggling, and now the old guard is taking a victory lap saying there's only one true hedge against inflation
, and store value, and its been around for millions of years. but my crypto guest says that the next 1 million years is all about bitcoin and crypto joining me now, bitcoin expert laya. la helpurn, among with chief economist peter morici. i'm glad to have you both, let me start with you laya. bitcoin taking it on the chin a little bit, and some of the arguments, uncorrelated hedge against inflation, a flight to safety, those haven't worked lately. what do you say to people who are saying maybe it was over- hiked? >> well actually i think it's exactly working. put the price away just for a second if you look at a fundamental value of bitcoin it's working perfectly. let's go to canada for example, the government behaves and decided to freeze the bank account of freedom protesters as a result people with start trading peer-to-peer in bitcoin. you can't trade peer-to-peer in gold. bitcoin is a monetary system and a medium exchange. nobody is trading when, you know , for goods and services in
gold, also really important point to make as well, when it comes to donating and actually helping these people, people have donated nearly half a million, it's probably more, in bitcoin to the canadian truckers and also if you go to ukraine, it's also very important to realize that the same kind of capital controls are happening. charles: right, peter? >> the same capital controls are happening so people are donating it's around $4.4 million. charles: wow, peter, i mean, to be honest, gold hasn't done much in the last decade. it's looking better these days, but the same arguments that laya h just laid out you used to use for buying gold. has it just shifted? is the rationale for wanting to have an alternative to the dollar still there but maybe is no longer gold? >> no, we definitely need alternatives to the dollar, and there are many ways to hedge against inflation, but bitcoin is not one of them. bitcoin is not going to hedge against anything. it's just a highly-speculative token basically a digital pyramid ponzi scheme, it went up
for a while, but people are using it primarily to gamble with, people are betting that the price is going to go up except now the price is falling, in fact year-over-year the price of bitcoin is down, and it maybe going a lot lower. it doesn't have any fundamental intrinsic value like gold. it's not a business. it doesn't pay a dividend like a stock. it's not real estate. you can't rent it out. it's not a bond. it's like digital beanie baby except you can't snuggle up with it and it doesn't look cute on your bed. charles: what's the argument for buying gold? you laid out the reasons you don't like bitcoin but what's the argument now at this stage for buying gold, you know, that has been underperformer for a long time? >> well not a long time, because remember, from 2001, to 2011, the price of gold went up from under 300 to almost 2,000 so when you have that kind of move over a decade -- charles: from 2011 to 2021 it didn't do much. >> correct, it's consolidated
and now it's getting ready for another big run-up as a result of all of the inflation that has been created over the past decade and the inflation that's going to be created during the coming decade i think gold is very cheap, relative to the amount of dollars in circulation. i think the technical picture looks very bright for gold, as does the fundamental picture. i think we've now had a big blow up in inflation for a while people thought there was no inflation, then they thought it was transitory, and now they think the fed is going to fight it. they are wrong again, the fed can't fight inflation because we have too much debt. inflation is going to get worse and people look for hedges, and gold is going to be one of the hedges they choose, not bitcoin. charles: layha? >> well i think you said bitcoin isn't doing anything right now bitcoin is actually saving peoples lives people are fleeing war torn ukraine and actually leaving to go to poland and taking gold absolutely not, and even if they did get to the border, people are absolutely corrupt if they get to the border authorities say sorry can i have one of those gold bars
and they let you in so you don't want to be smuggling up with bitcoin, nobody knows you own bitcoin that's the fundamental value, right now you can flee lockdowns, you can flee vaccine mandates whatever it is your government is throwing at you, you can flee that with the keys in your hand. nobody needs to know what you own and i certainly will not be fleeing any kind of dangerous government with gold billion bars. charles: peter? >> the vast majority of people who are buying bitcoin are not buying it for that reason. they are buying bitcoin because they think the price is going to go up and when they stop thinking the price is going to go up they are going to sell, and when enough people want to sell, and there's nobody to buy, the price will collapse, and, you know, this whole argument that it's a store value is going to evaporate because you can't store something you don't have. bitcoin has no underlying value, like gold, which is a metal, a valuable metal used for all sorts of things. bitcoin isn't used for anything other than speculation, and it's only being used for speculation
because people think it's going to go up. well if they stop thinking that because it's going down, then there is no reason to own it. yes you come up with these small examples but that's a tiny fraction of the demand for bitcoin, and once the price crashes, that demand will go away too. charles: layha? >> you've been saying the price cashes for years now i follow you on twitter i see what you've been saying if you look at the last five years gold is actually up only around 39% whereas bitcoin is up 3200 perhaps we live in a highly new era and a new time where my generation, millennials, actually do see value in something which is digital, rather than something which is tangible. charles: peter? >> all the young generations make mistakes. bitcoin has crashed many times over the last five years. charles: and to its credit it comes back. we got to leave it there. >> one-time it's going to crash and never come back. charles: let's leave it there, two passionate folks, peter layh
a, thank you both very much another wild week on wall street and i'll give you my takeaway on what some might consider the heartless nature of the stock market. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ wow, we're crunching tons of polygons here! what's going on? where's regina? hi, i'm ladonna. i invest in invesco qqq, a fund that gives me access to the nasdaq-100 innovations, like real time cgi. okay... yeah... oh. don't worry i got it! become an agent of innovation with invesco qqq (vo) for me, one of the best things about life is that we keep moving forward. don't worry i got it! we discover exciting new technologies.
i saw there were about 61 million results. to the reason i bring this up is because we have been reminded again that the stock market doesn't care about your feeling, your life or your freedoms. yesterday president biden when he spoke to the press and essentially said we aren't going to do anything to stop russia from overrunning ukraine, the market took off. sure, i mean, he talked about the oligarchs and hitting a few banks, but the fact of the matter is that the buildup was such that we would go to war with our friends in ukraine, you know, that we were going to go to battle for them. the only thing we would limit was a shooting war, but everything else was on the table because we wanted to stand up for freedom and democracy. with that bag the case, the way wars are won is by cutting off supply chains and communications. that's what made that swift system on the table so enticing, because it's a level average dub lev rabbling -- leveraging network. you cut that off, you cut off
communication and the frau of goods being bought and sold. russian energy, that was also given a free pass. to be honest, it seems heartless that the stock market would erupt higher on such news. but it's not only the stock market. you know, today's consumer sentiment report there was a part that really stood out to me. it says consumers may double down on precautionary if behavior if the greatester type of risks are now borne by domestic households. don't poke the bear to the point that it starts to mess with my if spotfy settings or i gotta change my passwords. a guy named terry wrote me this morning and said markets across the globe were expecting more. i'm not commenting further other than god help the people of the ukraine. well, he's right. god help the people of the ukraine, because as long as getting involved in turning portfolios, we're only going to be able to send well wishes and lip service. but if you think that means you have to be heartless and trade
and invest in the stock market, the market is really only keeping it real. it's a mirror of our souls, not our smiles. and with that in mind, we're coming on pretty nice as we end the week. as we know, the most challenging part of every session has been that last hour of trading, and there's nobody better to hold your hand through that than liz claman. liz, over to you. liz: thank you very much, charles. and already the headlines are hitting. they seem to start to pile on at around 2:59. we are, however, looking at the s&p and the nasdaq now positive for the week. lots of green on the screen. stocks are rallying the dow is spike as well, up 728 points not even at the highs of the session now. we are watching stocks extraordinarily closely because we're getting reports that ukraine's land forces say after heavy losses, russian troops have been stopped near the northeast city. but we do have explosions heard in parts of kyiv as an increasingly isolated vlami