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tv   Making Money With Charles Payne  FOX Business  August 11, 2022 2:00pm-3:00pm EDT

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kardia mobile card is available for just $99. get yours at or amazon. david: the markets kind of split right now. nasdaq down just a tick. but dow jones and the s&p have a nice gain for the day. just kind of market charles payne likes to deal with. anything could happen for the next hour. charles, take it away. charles: thank you so much, david, you're right. i love these markets. good afternoon, everyone, i'm charles payne this is "making money." breaking right now the remarkable bear market bounce keeps going but don't you dare call it a new bull market. if you want to sit with the cool kids of wall street you better only watch the thing play out or you're a rotten egg. i will explain. the plus the stock of the day is disney. mouse house is maybe done with all of it is issues. if it is is it time for you to get back in? oil bounce everyone is waiting for. doves are not crying screeching
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hysterically but no one seems to believe them. is it a mistake to ignore their hawkish stance? esg movement bankrupted she loong can but coming come to a town near you. i take to you the school of stocks before you dress like a hipster or dressing like them. all that and so much more on "making money." charles: so when i was growing up there was asaying last one in was a rotten egg. i have to be honest i took that seriously. athlete wall street, they turned that around, now they say the first one in is a rotten egg. the mavens love the knowing of buying a dip even double-digit tradeable bounces seem pretty obvious at the time. don't do it. for them it is simply a crime to be too early even if it means very late.
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now if you're going to get paid no matter what you know what? it doesn't matter, right? little consequences to a whole lot of these folks. some of them are even talking their own book. so you know, wing wink, right? especially the shorts, hedge funds who have been short but you as the individual investor i don't think you can afford to miss major market rallies. that is where your huge percentage gains are established off the lowest entry points. if you're waiting for the smart money to give you the all-clear signal, it could mean a lot smaller returns. there are a whole lot of well-meaning folks that want to help but look at some of the headlines over the years. they stop ad lot of individual investors from buying the exact moment they wanted to be in the market. remember the oldest axiom in investing you want to buy low. my first guest has been guiding investors a long time and considered one of the best on the street for a long time, yardeni research ed yardeni. ed, you reposted your may ft
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article. it was entitled investors are too bearish about the u.s. stock market. are you taking a victory lap here or kind of reminding us? >> no, i'm just pointing out that investors had been way too pessimistic about the economy, about earnings, they thought we're falling into recession. now it is obviously not that obvious. and in addition they thought that analysts were way too optimistic about earnings. the irony analysts are cutting their earnings expectations. so what is the market doing? it is going up. so it's, you always have to realize the market sort of has its own logic and you don't want to get too carried a way with the short-term volatility. i think we did make a low in the bear market back on june 16th at 3666. that doesn't mean we go straight up. charles: sure. >> we just did go straight up. i think what weigh we do here go
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sideways. charles: we consolidate those gains and maybe go higher. i think that is mart. ed, a whole lot of experts however you decide what an expert is, they rarely change their minds. that is one of the reasons i appreciate you. you do the work, when it is time to pivot you pivot. morgan stanley, they put out a piece the title of it, did the fed already win? they end with this line. the inflation is likely to fall from here, it will not be good for profits, i.e., be careful what you wish for. so they're still saying is stay out of this market. >> most companies are fairly successful in passing on their costs into prices. so some moderation of inflation here should be welcome and indeed why is the market up? i think ever since june 16th
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the market has been discounting, anticipating that the july inflation numbers would be better. it was in mid-june that commodity prices peaked, bond yields peaked and stock market got wind of all of that. as we got more confirmation that in fact energy prices had come down, the market started to anticipate that falling gasoline prices, energy prices would give us a good july cpi, ppi but that's a history now. we have to think where we go from here. the bottom line inflation is still too high and the fed will raise the fed funds rate by 75 basis points at the end of september. charles: unit labor costs report out this week sort of overshad owed by cpi and ppi. but to me it looms larger with respect to corporate profits. at some point corporations have to find a way to offset that. will they start to let people go even in this environment where people are hoarding workers? where do they find a way to keep
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profits up? >> it's a lot of moving parts in this economy, and what some companies are doing, they stopped hiring. some are laying off workers. we saw initial unemployment claims again quite high compared to where they had been the past several weeks. in the data that came out today and i think companies are going to continue to do what they do best which is figure out how to maintain their profit margins. it's a very controversial issue because the bears have been saying that the profit margins are going to take a dive but i think companies are going to continue to spend on technology to increase the productivity of workers. that will benefit workers in terms of their ability to get higher inflation adjusted wages. charles: sounds like a win-win. ed, always appreciate checking off the show with you, thank you very much. >> thank you. my pleasure. charles: so i want to bring in slatestone wealth chief market strategist kenny polcari and
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barry knapp. barry, i want to begin with you, jared dillon, aka dirt nap, gave you nice shoutedout on twitter. you said 3666 would be a low and this is a garden-variety bear market. i'm not sure why you felt that way. congratulations. is that still the case? >> yes. listen i wrote a report a couple weeks ago i think captured this best, titled, pivot is the wrong word. we have this constant discussion about the fed looking for them whether they go 50, or 75, or otherwise but the real key when we reach maximum tightening expectations that happened at the june fmoc meeting meeting wy sprung a 75 on us the last minute. i will give you a precedent for that. in 19994 when we were going through the very aggressive rate hike cycle the peak of tightening expectations came after that november surprise 75
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basis-point hike. markets took off from there. the fed didn't pivot per se, didn't communicate quite like they do today, but didn't pivot until june of '95. that was the key inflection point. inflation was already peaking but the market wasn't going to respond to it until it saw we reached this maximum point of tightening concern and expectations and that was it and so for me that was the real inflection point that was important. charles: you called the number, my man. so congratulations there. kenny, you've been cautious and it served your clients very well but you see the inflation data this week. are you changing your mind a little bit where this market may go? >> listen, i'm not changing my mine yet about inflation. i'm not convinced one data point or two data points sets the trend. i do like barry, called the exact low 3600. i say that's fine. will we test it again? i think we will test it as we move into the fall. maybe not that low but lower
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from here. i think we get data points over in september and october, if they start to really reflect what we saw these last two days i will be more convinced i'm a little bit more comfortable but remember back in 1981 when the fed pivoted here we go with that word again, when inflation they thought it was rolling over in 1981, the fed pivoted and inflation came roaring back and the fed had to pivot again, raise rates, jam them up to 21%. that's why i'm not jumping on that bandwagon right now. i would like to see inflation decline absolutely, but i'm not completely convinced yet. charles: it is pretty clear. everyone talked about that stop and go approach and if they're not going to do that, the fed said they are not going to do that but, barry, you made been interesting observation on monday, what jumped off the screen absence of speeches from the fed leadership. chair hadn't said much, vice-chair, new york fed president.
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the primary conclusion last week you were talking about the fed that they were out of the forward guidance business and i found that to be really interesting as i read it. we're hearing from all the doves but not hearing from the key decisionmakers. >> right and they are out of the forward guidance business. they have had, you know egg all over their face. so what basically we heard from daley and kashkari and the whole crew was their forecast. they may have regained credibility with respect to fighting inflation but they didn't regain forecast credibility. the whole transitory forecast is going to live with them in infamy. the key is where you think the data is going. charles: right. >> kenny and i might have a little different view of this in as much as i think cpi is headed to four in 2023. then i think four, it will stall at four. i also don't think 2 1/2% is the policy rate that will start to slow growth.
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you talked about labor costs before. if you measure productivity using gross domestic income, instead of gross domestic product, corporate income is still expanding. that is why corporate earnings are holding up. i have a positive view on growth but also a view inflation will stall. for me the back half of the year is good but 2023 we'll have another inflation problem. charles: people are shifting to the 2023 camp with respect to the inflation/recession debate. kenny, technology is in a bull market at least we were coming into the session. we got a big spike in the 10-year yield. nasdaq giving up gains for the day. should people take the bait though? these names, when they get hot, they go for the big runs, you look back, gosh, i wish i got that? >> well, you know when they go for the big run, when they finally jump in at the top of that big run. they say what did i do? if they have been consistent and kind of getting in all along i think it is okay. also you have to be careful
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painting technology with a broad brush, right? i think it is very selective. there is a lot of areas in tech that i still won't touch but the big megacap names i like. i liked them all along. you and i talked about this i like artificial intelligence and cyber security now more than i did. i'm getting comfortable where it is. but those are the kind of big solid names that i like. i'm not going out on the curve on a lot of tech names just because i think they're still at risk. charles: i gotcha. kenny, barry, both brilliant. thank you very much. appreciate it so much. all right, folks, the market trying to break out right here. really looking very intriguing. i can't wait to take to you chart school, the special guest next. we heard about the great resignation. where they are finding work? on wall street. you should be very afraid. vivek ramaswamy will sound off on that at 2:45.
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charles: so i'm sure most of you know the verse, so the last shall be first, the first last for many be called but few chosen, matthew 20:16. when it comes to the stock market trying to climb out of this bear market, don't look now about but it is the small caps that bottomed out. this is way back in may, folks. not only did they bottom out against the s&p 500 but they're getting a big head of steam. pretty soon one more hurdle they could truly be off to the races picking up some steam here. head of technical analysis at oppenheimer, ari walden. s&p 500, some of these stocks are extraordinarily cheap, can they keep it going, sort of lead this rebound? >> looks like they are for sure. i think what it exemplifies here the broadening of internal participation. i think a more risk-on move
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we're seeing in the market. it also is, a great example of the market rotating into the prior bear cycles biggest laggards which characterizes what we found the start of a new bull market. if you look at that turn in small caps it has been small-cap growth specifically being a big leader on the upside after really a devastating drop into the recent lows. so it all corroborates our thinking here that this is a recovery underway. the risk-on areas are leading it higher. large caps, small caps are doing it too. for all these reasons why we're recommending our clients to stay the course. that this recovery should continue and lead to additional upside through the balance of the year. charles: to your point the s&p 500 has been no slouch either, right? we've been talking on this show a lot about this sort of resistance area between 4150 and, i mean 4150 and 47200.
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obviously we have broken through there. i'm looking where the 200-day moving average, 4,000, call it 4330. through there, ari, i don't see a lot of resistance much higher. i know of course we'll be backing, filling, pausing but is there a chance we could really take off from here? >> yeah, i think all eyes, eyes on the prize there at the that 200 day average. our expectation we come in test, you hit the level there, 4330. in terms of timing this entire cycle we're still following the typical trajectory around the midterm year seasonal year. i think it would be reason to see some backing and filling in the q3 period. maybe in the fourth quarter you see that breakaway move. it could be setting up for a higher low, rather than a lower low. i think there will be good support at the s&p 50 day average which is inching toward the 4,000 level but if you look
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back through history, first six months after new bull market, s&p on average up 25%. charles: wow. >> i think by year-end we're talking about s&p 5004600 and new highs in 23. charles: the point you made is critical. you have folks say we have to retest the lows. if that is not the case that changes your risk/reward dynamics tremendously. we have a minute to go and i want to ask you about oil. west texas intermediate hit intraday low, 87.55. that used to be resistance at the beginning of the year, then it was support. you have got a lot of folks who say the crude oil play is done. what are you seeing with respect to oil because i think there is one more leg to the upside to retest the high at some point? >> our feel is it is slowing, it is not ending. it would be historically unprecedented to continue the rise it had been in through the first part of the year. we think it is transitioning more of a range. the issue is, that our feel is
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that a lot of these inflationary reads are subsiding. interest rates arep toing. commodity prices are topping and probably oil has as well. equities look great. as much as they're losing attractiveness as and inflation hedge they still score well for us. so i would be keen on the equity part of the sector here. it will not be the same everything, energy rally we saw in the first year but if you look at, i think for a stock-picker, if you look at a name like cheniere energy breaking out to the upside here i think there is still ample upside at the stock level of that group. charles: i love cheniere energy. when they first got license to do the nat-gas stuff. i called company, got reception it on the phone. they said everyone is getting drunk. call us tomorrow. appreciate your expertise. >> thank you. charles: i want to hear from you whether you have a comment about the show, a question for me, a question for our guests, it is
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absolutely important, always remember tweet me at cvpayne. we had a ton of feedback particularly from the opening yesterday not losing your faith and optimism in yourself or this country. pan glowsian. one want criticize and be positive in wealth creation. one tweeted gary kaltbaum, need that segment on fox business. absolutely appreciate it. coming up why disney is the stock of the day. is it finally ready to get over all the issues including some that were self-inflicted? ♪
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charles: this has been one heck of a bear market bounce but the fed insists they have a lot more work to do. the market continues to call their dovish bluff. i want to bring in victoria green and kingsview wealth management scott martin. victoria, is the market in your mind getting ahead of itself here? >> i hate to be boring talk about the market math. technicals are not fun. that would put us at 19 handle. that is getting a little expensive. earnings were not that great. first time in q2 you saw positive or negative earnings surprise but the stocks still react the postively. i do know sentiment got too bearish i do know we oversold but the market is acting like we're coming out of a recession not going into one. typically a market boat happens when the world is terrible. think about march 2018 or march
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march 2020. here we're zoo sitting full of employment. you should listen to the bond curve, what they're telling us over there with the two 10 and 5'10" inversion the recession is still coming. i think this rally is premature, and still a bear market rally. charles: those are great points whether 2020 or 2009 the anxiety might not be there but the verbiage is there, to the point this market was extremely oversold. for the most part wall street is still very negative. is that one of the reasons, is that the wall of worry it's climbing? >> yeah. i agree. anxiety is good word to use, charles because it is always darkest before dawn you said many times this year obviously because of the given circumstances but those are the times victoria pointed out you have to be aggressive. buy when others are selling. frankly i think she is right in a lot of cases. i would argue, look at rsi, stochastics, these are fun stuff you guys can search on your own. things are overdone to your
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question to victoria earlier. is the market over. charles: talk to a stock probably not ahead of itself, the stock of the day, the mouse roaring today. disney the top performer on the s&p. better number top and bottom yesterday. scott, do you think there is more upside here? do you think all of their issues for the most part are behind them? >> hardly but let's say it, the stock got really hated and got thrown out with everything else in the house and therefore the house of mouse was due to bounce. we own the house in a butch of our etfs and a bunch of our strategies. we're having a nice day today, charles. disney still has headwinds ahead of it. the recession is here as pointed out earlier. consumer spending is a little frisky to use a word, disney just doesn't seem it has the luster it once had. we still own it because the fundamentals are pretty good but i'm not looking for crazy upside here. take a note how the stock traded today. there wasn't a big chase on the stock after it opened and gapped
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up. so therefore i still believe there is some sellers in the name and you got to get the sellers out of there before it will rally hard to get buyers in there as well. charles: speaking of the consumer, according to bank of america discretionary spending is holding up. low income households has a lot to do with low gasoline prices. victoria, i want to know how does it plate out in the market? does it benefit a disney or go down and find something like the discount stores? >> walmart is a good example of that. they're more exposed to the main street target client necessarily but i'm not sure fully agree with bank of america's numbers i think they increase credit cards and more into debt rather than having savings and healthy balance sheets. we're worried about the main street consumer. walmart, target, stores that cater to that consumer, they're not doing very well in the low income households. rent and food was still really pricey. they finally got a reprieve on
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gasoline. rents first time ever, average rent over $2,000 a month. food prices went up in july. i do question the health of the consumer. i do think it's a drag. there are something we like, costco, dollar general. we feel like they're well-positioned. look at stocks that have done well, it is higher end stocks. you have like the neiman marcus, the tiffany's, the louis vuittons of the world that have wonderful earnings. there is resilience in the high-end but the lower income households are getting eaten by inflation a little bit. we're seeing that in earnings. charles: just mentioned the gasoline reprieve that they have gotten. at least, some, it may be temporary, right? iea this morning raises the global demand forecast. they see 99.7 million barrels a day. 108 million barrels next year. it sounds modest, scott, oil is acting modest today. there will be some structural
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bounce in oil and gasoline goes up. what does that mean for the consumer? >> i don't believe that charles. i think easy money is made in oil and energy this year. we owned some in may and got out luckily. that was pretty much luck actually. i think energy has got some headwinds to it because of the fact as we talked about before, charles, there is recession here. demand has fallen off and it is not like the economy will roar back. it feels like things are stablizing finding some footing here. so energy is okay here going forward but i think there are more desirable areas. if you like energy, if you must own energy, i don't go for enat that greated ones. i don't go for the driller ones, go for the pipelines. alme, pipeline etf they're the tollbooth with the commodity through the pipes and paying a nice dividend. charles: that is great dividend player. victoria you like natural gas and utilities here, right? >> i do, i also like the emps. sadly not quite as lucky as my friend over here, we stayed long energy a little bit. it hurt tremendously.
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we're watching prices. u.s. emps in permian, devon is our favorite. they're printing cash now. their break evens are very low. we like natural gas. specifically cheniere, the lng exporter because russia's loss is cheniere's gain. exporting 14% this year. they're a very well-run company. they had earnings and fantastic q2 earnings you almost couldn't ask fora better beat across it. if you look how the market is shifting, one of the reason oil demand is projected to go up seeing power plant shift from natural gas to oil. we still see natural gas, a huge shortage in europe. i think the oil trajectory will play out with the recession trajectory. what recession hits us here. typically oil prices do drop during recession. if we see we're picking up demand in europe because they don't have enough energy supply over there we may see more resiliency in prices. i think opec can't drill anymore capacity. one of the reasons they only increased their out put
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100,000 barrels because i don't think they can actually get more barrels to the market. charles: we were told, we were warned about that. three segments got two upgrades and two buys on cheniere. maybe someone is onto something. victoria, scott, thank you very much, appreciate it. folks sounds like a cliche these days there was a time generals led troops to battle william of normandy in hastings and "henry v" of 100 years war. king adolphus led the cavalry in 30 years war. george picket had a deadly charge in the battle of gettysburg. in the market there seems need for generals to leave. lately apple stepped up to the place. i want to bring in crossmark global investment strategist victoria fernandez. can this market rally long term
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without the megacap generals? >> you mentioned apple probably the lead one here, charles. the market will not to tremendously higher unless you see a name like apple continue to do so as well. it has become a defensive name at least in our portfolios. we even saw that on the flipside where we are. when the markets were going down, apple was one kind of holding its own a little bit. i think we need to see tech in general turn around to give a little boost. we have lower yields. bond yields moved higher today, but relative to where we were a month ago. we got the lower yields right now. that should be supportive of tech. you look at really strong balance sheet names like apple, they're going to do well and kind of lead the charge. charles: the theme of the show, one of the themes for a lot of folks is the market may have gotten ahead of itself, certainly in this session we're pulling back a little bit some profit-taking f we have gotten ahead of ourselves how much risk is there to the downside? >> yeah. i absolutely agree with you, charles. i think we have gotten a little
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bit over our skis here yesterday with the cpi report and today's ppi. i just don't think it is exactly what the fed is looking for. they're not ready to say mission accomplished here. i'm not surprised we're seeing the market give a little bit back. when we talk about how much further we have to go i mean i don't know. that all comes back to the idea have we reached a bottom yet? are we going to get the soft landing? we wouldn't be surprised to see continued volatility here because there is still so many unknowns. we probably get a better picture -- charles: victoria, keep talking but moment that ag garland comes out we'll immediately shift over to take a listen to his comments. so you mentioned the federal reserve. do you still see 75 basis points? by the way more importantly do they pivot this year or not? >> i'm going to answer that second question. do they pivot, no, i don't think they do. to me if they go 50 basis points in september that is not a pivot. if we look where we were in march, we were talking about oh, my goodness will there be a 50
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basis point rate hike, no one thought that was a pivot of any sort. i think they will continue to raise rates whether 50 or 75 i don't think it will make a lot of difference when it comes to the market movement. we're looking next year before we see futures starting to bring many so of those rates down. so i think we still have a ways to go here. charles: how are you vested? how should someone be vested? most of time you and i talk it feels like you're fully vested with a little bit of dry powder? >> i would say we have a little more dry powder than we normally do. we increased our cash position a little bit. we're not sure this is actually a new bull rally. we think it could be a bill lit of a bear market rally, we're taking gains and names on up days, building that cash position a little bit. so we think it is fair for people to do the same thing. we're not doing a lot of buying right here, letting things settle down a little bit after the inflation numbers. charles: your would-be buy list what's on that? what is at the top of the list? do we pull back, settle down,
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making a another leg higher where do you want to be? >> we look at companies that focus on quality, charles. you know that is our key. coca-cola is a name we can add a little bit of a position to. we look at some energy names. i know you guys were talking about the potential for energy. we're underweight there so maybe having more in that sector would be something we can do. we like health care and insurance. those are areas we focus on while trimming names in other areas. some retail consumer names. charles: are those names absolutely stay away from, discretionary names? they have been acting pretty good particularly those associated with fomo. >> you have to be really careful though when you look at leadership right now we're not seeing thatelativelativelattr ii tiiearie if serttahaeehaeehahehe d chs,gehe y can gocao s dcrry bus th t iseot l.s: we tk a lototut tutl.
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fed. obviously we're through earnings season. we're through the most important economic data out there, so yeah, it feels like we're on some sort of a pause here. i guess historians we should be vigilant at all times for these opportunities. victoria. got to let you go. i always appreciate you. been too long, thank you very much. >> my pleasure. charles: see you soon. of course there are some ideas and things i want to discuss here, never enough time. i invite you to read my daily market commentary every day. you will love it. go to also coming up we have ag garland will speak very soon. we'll talk about climate scientists invading wall street. what that could mean for your portfolio. what could it mean for the world? also new york city trying to force commuters to ride the subway. how do you do that? charge you 23 bucks to drive around in certain neighborhoods. that would get me out of my car, maybe walking. ♪.
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charles: statement from attorney general garland any moment. it is considered, in the meantime we'll talk about the market here because what we're talking about is considered right now the most powerful force in investing. not because the returns are great or even a demand for esg but because of all the power it controls, the funding spigots around the world. joining me founder executive chairman vivek ramaswamy. you know, first i want to start with this, i saw earlier this week, it was a shocking revelation rather, this guy is former head of environmental social governance at city green. z-e bond investors pushing lopsided esg agenda on impoverished nations it harms them. he pointed out the crisis in
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sri lanka. they're pushing entire countries in visage of despair. what is your thought how reckless they have been with this? >> i think it is incredibly reckless. this is form of modern monarchy, charles. they're going back to the orlando world model. we don't decide answers of social dispute as citizens through democracy. no we settle it through force, capitalists elites getting together behind closed doors like corner office of black rock and decide what is right for rest of society at large. there is lot of problem with it, but one of the problems with it, they don't get the answer right but get it dead wrong. you see casualties what happens in sri lanka and it is a global problem. charles: this is issue in my mind with the world bank and international monetary fund and pressure they put on nations when they lend them money. you've seen a lot of countries balk at this, including remember the crisis with greece and portugal. but this add as layer on this,
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the, i mean, we're talking, i mean this adds another layer to that. >> the layer that it adds a veneer of legitimate sy, just private sector doing it. blackrock, state street, they are market actors. they're shareholders of companies demand the companies behave in certain way, isn't that what we want all along, shareholder primacy? here is the problem. the parties that claim to be shareholders of companies and assets in these countries are using money of every day citizens to advance values in the boardroom most of those everyday citizens, owners of capital, viewers of this program do not agree with. that is fiduciary breach. i think it's a large-scale scam of the 21st century, $21 trillion of assets in three firms using it to advance one-sided political agendas citizens and owners of capital do not agree with. charles: not rhett tore i cannery sound like folks who
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watched drama for the democrat spending bill, one piece was cut out, again, right? so the richest folks in the world, they always advertise we'll tax them, we'll go after this and they always get off scot-free. so if they can ever face the music in a u.s. tax system can they ever be brought to bear in any kind of shape or form? is it too late? >> i'm actually much more optimistic about solving this through the market rather than solving it through politics. why i founded strive we were just talking about. charles: right. >> we listed our first exchange traded fund, on the new york stock exchange yesterday, for example is using shareholder voice and power to deliver a different voice to america's energy companies, telling them to let go of the esg constraints, focus on drilling, focus on producing more, using shareholder power to deliver the message through the private sector. i think that is more likely to drive change than our broken political system. charles: i've seen this done
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before. folks like jesse jackson, 20, 30 years ago, by one share of coca-cola, show up at the shareholder meeting to shame the company doing certain things t worked to a tee agree. this is larger issue. >> larger issue. charles: much larger. >> competing against blackrock with their own game and methods. this is the difference though, most people, capital owners, every day citizens with money in the retirement accounts, brokerage accounts they do not want a large asset manager to use money to advance political agenda. if there is new vehicle to deliver the profit oriented message, profit oriented message that will be much more likely to drive lasting change. charles: i looked at your top 10 holdings, and, did you pick them based on traditional fundamentals or did you pick them based on the idea these are management teams that are wisenning up and pushing back? >> it was just an index fund. it is pegged to an index. blackrock, vanguard they offer passive exposure to a sector
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like energy sector. rather than active managed product, use a similar to index fund bringing a different voice and vote to the table that is what is different, isolating not for competing on risk or return or fee but actually offer, isolate for the different voice and vote. the thing with the energy sector is, energy stocks, generally trade at lower multiple because of these es g-man dates that caused these companies to produce much less. charles: right. >> so the irony bringing this new shareholder voice to a table you can cause energy stocks to expand the multiple, price to earnings multiple which they trade, lock value in the sector if we're able to take the esg shackles off. that is drive it to scale with our first product, drll, trading on the new york stock exchange. i'm optimistic. the launch was great yesterday. i hope this is beginning of a new movement in capital markets. this is about something bigger. >> this is huge, a revolution,
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talking about a revolutionary move using a different tactic, i said this is one of the most powerful forces out there. i think it is too late in europe to be quite frank with you. i'm hoping americans look over there to see where you can't pay for electricity. can see where now they're going after farmers. can see average person has no, no upward mobility. these countries are dead and they're going to continue to rot on the vine because they put climate above humans. >> we call it the american dream for a reason because we can do that here. you know what? elon musk my tried to do it to tech. most of twitter employees don't want to do what the new shareholder says. good thing about the u.s. energy industry, most employees in u.s. energy industry want to follow the shareholder mandate. i'm optimistic about driving change. go to the energy sector, go back to the other sectors to use that blueprint. >> is taking over all sectors. drll. that's the symbol.
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>> that's right. on the new york stock exchange. charles: fantastic stuff, a tall order, i tip my hat to you. we'll check in from time to time. >> thanks. charles: here is headline nobody probably thought they would see a year ago. $10 trillion, right, this is breaking news, blackrock launching an institutional trust for spot bitcoin exposure. i want to bring in podcast host, bitcoin expert layah heilpern. you often talked about institutions getting involved in this. how big is this news. >> this is incredibly bullish news. tough consider the current climate we're in right now. we're in a bear market, beginning of a recession. despite the cpi numbers yesterday, inflation is still soaring. the world's largest asset manager wants to give exposure to bitcoin. this is truly incredible. bitcoin is only 13 years old. it is young digital asset, many people regard it as risk-on
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asset. at this time with lot of economic, political instability globally, people move to things like gold and more blue chip stocks. so right now this really shows there is a huge demand. the smart money sees tremendous value in bitcoin as a global payments network. charles: any easycation at although? weed discussion about esg movement, how blackrock and others are using that? face it, an entire country is holding on by a thread because of this. any worries at all? i know there has to be some legitimacy. that is where all the big money is to move the needle but any concerns at all? >> in front of the esg narrative, i have no concerns whatsoever because for the first time bitcoin is asset can be mined anywhere in the world using renewable energy. the amount of energy being used to mine bitcoin in that renewable way is increasing. there are major mining companies like irs energy for example.
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they actually, my bitcoin using 100% renewable energy. completely disregard this and still push the esg narrative that would be very intellectually lazy in my opinion. charles: stay on the political stuff for a second. you become louder on social issues. you listed the five biggest scams. democracy is on the list. why is that a scam. >> i don't think democracy is not a scam the form of democracy is a scam. in united kingdom, very have a two party system. that is not democracy. that is deficit. u.s. population of 330 million people the best you come up with biden and trump? that is not democracy that is the worst of two evils. this organization having a lot of control, the world economic forum, chairman of the world economic forum actually said his goal to have individuals who are part of their organization implemented in cabinets all over
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the world. this includes biden in the u.s. he is world economic forum. includes boris johnson. includes macron in france and in new zealand and trudeau in canada. so the goal here is to have one kind of global agenda implemented by one centralized entity in europe. that is not democracy. that's one global agenda which is very, very concerning. charles: you talk about the davos folks. does that add credence or even urgency to the notion of bitcoin and the decentralized revolution >> i love this question, charles. absolutely. bitcoin is the only form of money which is truly decentralized. it empowers not just money but empowers decentralized money. bitcoin is trustless network you don't have to put your trust in any centralized entity whether a central bank.
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bitcoin is the mentality which i believe that empowers. charles: i do got to go, last couple times you got on you got energy, not rambunctious, not telling me 100,000 u.s. dollars a million u.s. dollars. what is up with that? is it still going to the moon? >> oh, it is still going to the moon. i'm still very bullish but also realistic. we are in a bad market. no, i don't think we'll see one million dollar bitcoin tomorrow or 100,000-dollar bitcoin tomorrow but yes in the next 10 years, 100%. bitcoin is up 400% in the last two years i'm always realistic. we're in a bad market. charles: holding up well especially breaking through 24,000. always a pleasure. talk to you real soon. coming up why you need to be careful about buying the hip stocks, right? we'll go to the school of stocks right after this.
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you'll always remember buying your first car. and buying your starter home. or whatever this is. but the things that last a lifetime like happiness, love and confidence... you can't buy those. but you can invest in them. we believe that your investments should work harder for the future you imagine. and that's where our strategic investing approach can help. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. charles: so there's an old saying about investing in a stock market, buy what you know. makes sense. peter lynch told us that. i love it as a starting point, but the notion of investing is being part owner of a business
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or businesses and more often than not, you know they're a great business but here's the thing, there are land mines out there to the approach especially if you're in a history camp. if you're a hipster, cutting edge, exclusive, which is groovy but means it's untested on a larger scale, and your investment, you know, of course if it's ever going to work and you're going to make money, it's got to be scaleable. ten years ago there was a list of the top ten hipster stocks and pretty big names on there. apple, amazon, you had whole foods, some pretty good looking stuff, groupon wasn't necessarily that great. american apparel wasn't that great, urban outfitters fell apart. it was a mix. it was real compelling mix. maybe apple and amazon offset the losses from all of them but there was some duds. last year was the ipo for the him crowds.
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robinhood, groves, bird shoes, coin, posh, everybody loves buying used clothes. what they all have in common as publicly traded companies, they're returns are abysmal. the majority of them were not ready for prime time. the young hipsters working in the banking industry and lived in sew hoe and go -- soho and go to wall street and say we need to take these companies public and their bosses would look at it and have dollar signs and say, yeah, you're absolutely right. the investing lesson is buy what you know, but make sure it will be a product or service that everyone will love. if the company will be able to really grow, remember, scale the business and maybe this is a novel idea, folks. maybe at some point, even make a profit. so be cool, you can have the coolest stuff, wear the coolest stuff, but it's not always the coolest investment. liz claman, i always have to have this conversation with you
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because you're the hippest person in the building. the warby parker stock didn't do much. liz: yeah, and it makes you wonder as you look at popular items that are discretionary, we've got the ceo of traegger, the joe row began promoted -- rogan promoted grill. the s&p lost all the gains following the nasdaq, yeah, this is starting to look really kind of like a little bit of a hangover as we are waiting right now on u.s. attorney general merrick garland, who is expected to speak about that recent raid at mar-a-lago. mar-a-lago looking for former president donald trump's documents. we'll be taking that and it appears it is starting to destabilize the markets but even before this, you're still looking at one of the


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