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tv   Making Money With Charles Payne  FOX Business  October 4, 2022 2:00pm-3:00pm EDT

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neil: my zz top roll here is done, now to the main event, charles payne. help us my friend. stuart: finally give me something to work with. neil: there we go. stuart: i appreciate it a lot, neil. good afternoon, everyone, i'm charles payne this is it "making money." breaking now stocks are rallying again as buyers reemerge. this is this morning before the open. a whole lot more poured in learning the jobs openings plunged one million jobs. this is in august a few months ago. buyers are hoping that maybe jay powell sees the news? meanwhile the united nations demanding that central banks stop hiking rates. another global institution
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straying way out of its lane. i will ask the ogs. two steeves. moore and for example. also on wall street lots of folks are changing their mind. musk says okay to twitter. dalio says okay to cash. is it time for you to say okay to get in the stock market? eddie ghabour and david nelson on stocks. thrasher will take us to chart school. regulators laying it on thicker than ever about the woes. haley linen about the legal hurdles facing cryptocurrency. have you picked out your halloween costume yet? i'm asking all the guests today how they will go trick-or-treating. i do want to wait to enter the show, folks, because the despicable actions happening in the uk right now to keep people warm right now it's crazy. my take on the unmitigated disaster on the road to the green utopia.
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all that and much more on "making money." ♪ stuart: all right, so it is that time of year, right? the leaves are changing color and on main street it is a time when folks really start to debate what they will wear to the adult halloween party. believe it or not this year the number one thing is the inflatable t-rex. i had no idea. "wonder woman" up there, buddy the "elf." i was surprised by this one, ride a bear buddy. wait until you google that one. this is time of year in the stock market where you find the beginning after fourth quarter rally. when that happens it is also that time of year when folks on wall street start to decide whether or not they want to be in a fourth quarter rally or want to sit it out. essentially will they be bulls or bears this halloween? the plot is thickening. market had a pretty good session. yesterday, folks, so you know,
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this is the third best start to an october going back to 1930. ain't too bad away to start off the month or the quarter. looks like famed hedge fund manager ray dalio maybe he changed his time at the wrong time. he talked about john maynard keynes saying when the facts change i change my mind. he is not now saying cash was trash. now that stocks and bonds were being hammered he has gone now into cash. maybe he is a contrarian a lot to talk about it. i will get to our first guest. he has been adamant about his position. he has been one hundred% right. key advisor eddie ghabour. all right, my man, if i had to give you a costume, "the dark knight." it worked for you and your clients but will you stay on the sidelines? >> we are right now. we're going to stay on the sidelines, charles, with the cash position we have. i do think right now near term one thing we'll watch is to see how the market reacts to the cpi
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data that comes out next week and the job market come in. if they come in hawkish numbers. we may take another leg down and hit new lows. at that point in time we'll put a little cash to work. we want plenty of dry powder, ultimately what will come from this bear market some of the best buying opportunities we've seen in 20 years that can create generational wealth. stuart: right. >> you can only take advantage of that if you have dry powder. stuart: to that point ray dalio said he changed his mind because the facts changed. i have to be frank with you, i'm not sure what changed recently that makes cash more appealing here. we had an ugly ism number. of course we had the major downgrade in job openings. the facts tend to lend themselves maybe the fed at some point, maybe having an epiphany? >> yeah. look, the facts haven't changed. they just have gotten worse. we've been talking about this with our clients and your viewers since the end of last year that the economy was going
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to be slowing down. from a rate of change perspective it is getting worse that may be what he is referring to and when you tighten monetary policy into that environment is when you get these downdrafts. that is what we've been living through. look, the fed put themselves in trouble. if they said today they were not going to raise rates the asset prices that they're trying to keep down were going to go through the roof. stuart: yeah. but again, it is tough. there are a lot of things you're dealing with that no fed probably ever had to deal with. let's talk about when you might get back in. one of the conundrums, one of the reasons a lot people are bearish, individual investors, equity holdings of most households right now, right around the same level it was before the infamous telecom tech crash. a lot of folks are saying this is too high. on one hand cash is moving higher, bonds are moving lower. this is equity, this is what the average household is holding. if i look at this where do i go as long-term investor?
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maybe cash is fine. do i want to be in bonds where the 40 year bond rally is broken this time or wall street where stock market says too many people own stocks? >> this is what we're looking at, long term in our opinion, we're long term bulls, so our cash position is short term. look, six months, eight months, is not a long period of time. a lot of investors feel like they have to be fully invested all the time. i need to see the dollar stablize. i need to see the vix get us to that capitulation moment. we have not had that yet. stuart: you're talking north of 40? >> north of 40, exactly. people think this time may be different. i think that is the kiss of death when people say that. stuart: right. >> it just hasn't happened yet. lastly we need the fed to pivot. in my opinion we'll not get this market where they need to be if they continue to suck liquidity out of the system during this time period. stuart: right. >> i think when you look under the hood i think things are more fragile than they're leading us
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to believe on the equity side as well as fixed income markets. stuart: i do believe there are issues with this economy, unfortunately not all of it can be fixed by making the economy slower. before i go, what are you dressing as for halloween? >> you know, charles, after the type of market we lived here i may have to dress up like a bottle of bourbon. every weekend i seem to sip on some of that. stuart: i know own the weekend you're drinking champagne because you've been right but bourbon sounds about right. thank you, eddie, talk to you real soon. >> thank you, charles. stuart: talk to two market pros who have been in this market i would say one a little reluctantly. my friend belpointe strategist david nelson, springs advisor, cio, date constant. david, i start with you, what i find fascinating coming into today, we've had rotation, right? we had rotation out of traditional safe havens, staples, discretionary utilities. investors haven't run to the hot
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growth name. instead cyclical names, energy, materials, financials. so there is still a cautious tone to all of this, isn't there? >> i guess there is but a lot of it eventually the market finds everybody. i guess everybody was hiding in utilities and they got hit pretty hard. when you start to look at a one year t-bill at 4%, suddenly 3 1/2% dividend yield for a utility isn't all that attractive so money has come out of those sectors. i think there are some reasons we can explain why we're getting a rally the last couple days here. stuart: there is no doubt. i think you know, just sort of relief. a lot of people holding on to cash. let me start with andy. you were at howard, chief strategist there, solomon brothers. solomon brothers on the resume' means you have been around. want to ask you about ray dalio stepping down from bridgewater,
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a day after changing his mind on cash. just your thoughts? >> sure, i worked with ray at bridgewater for many years. this has been planned for a decade with some fits and starts. the other two cios are the sharpest minds in investings that i ever had the pleasure of working with. i think greg and bob will pilot this ship. already they have been doing it well. i have no doubt they will do great going forward. but as it relates to the cash issue, which i think is an interesting issue, the cash is trash comment back in december was certainly the headline. i would just like to say there might have been a nuance around that. if you listened, he also said that bonds are cash too, just cash delaying return of that cash. charles: right. >> so i think he was saying all forms of cash are trash and his comments yesterday are interesting to me because now i think he is saying the whole yield curve, cash today, and cash in the future, is no longer
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trash which makes an interesting point on whether he stays bearish bonds or not. charles: let me get to what you're doing, andy. you put out a tweet over the weekend that caught our eye, right? i will let the audience know you're more sophisticated investor than most people. this is interesting. i bought the close on friday, as big of a size as my risk management allows. what was the motivation for that move? >> right. it is a little wonky. there was a very, it was quarter end and there was a very large mutual fund was doing a forced sale. you saw $6 billion for sale market on close and i think from my analysis they were selling all day as well, keeping pressure on markets, finally smashing the close. i have thought that was an interesting opportunity. charles: i have to be honest with you. that close friday had h had a climactic feel to it. i know a lot of traders bought after the close as well.
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let me go back to you, my friend, david. you are almost totally invested. after the drubbing the first nine months, we set records, ugly records. no doubt people have a urge to swing for the fences. we saw the news elon musk would come through. i'm sure we all thought he would come through but not sure 54.20 would not be the number but are you swinging for the fences of anything to make up for the last nine months? >> i haven't started swinging for the fences. if i do that i wouldn't be in business very long. i you give you a couple names i bought last week. wesco international. knock sexy, nothing. they distribute electric products for the grid. i was too afraid to pull the trigger before i saw the news last week. ge icap tall. 10% of owners bought $12 million in stock added to their position. that gave me confidence, i bought the stock. charles: what is the symbol?
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>> wcc, my friend. it is rocking today. charles: andy, i see you also talk about hedging. a lot of our viewers are interested in that, particularly as their core portfolios have sort of fallen apart. again, it is not sophisticated but are there certain things individual investors can do to help mitigate these wild, volatile markets? >> yeah, i think you you have to start at a level the qt that started, people started being interested in after the minutes in january has essentially crushed all assets so there was no hiding. last week, you know, as i was getting bullish i also noticed that the value of most assets, bonds, stocks, gold, everything was down. in fact it was, the portfolio of assets, balanced portfolio of assets was down near the lows of the gfc in terms of valuation. so i think we, we still have this qt effect but a long portfolio of you know, balanced
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with bonds, stocks, gold, other commodities, you know, there is a false dawn maybe that may not last. charles: right. >> but we're up 5 1/2% already on the s&p. and i think this, the next, you know, month can surprise people. charles: surprise people to the upside? >> yeah. charles: okay. >> i think max hawkishness is done. it is in the rear view mirror. charles: i like that term max hawkishness. i feel almost everyone has been hawkish. i have to wrap this one, david my friend, what are you wearing for halloween, this inflatable t-rex, i had nod idea there was inflateddable t-rex. i hope it comes in double x. >> i want special forces. so i ferret out good months. charles: andy, i don't know you well enough to ask. next time. folks always love hearing from you whether about comments made on the show. you're not shy, i love that send it to us, tweet me @cvpayne
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always love it. in fact drew is tweeting, your show helped me learn about stocks and the economy n my early 20s, i feel more educated than most of my peers. thanks, charles. you have it my friend, drew. the chart school, the bond edition with andy thrasher is next. ♪. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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think i might look into one myself. stay in the home and life you've built for years to come. call... to receive $1500 off your kohler walk-in bath. and take advantage of our special low monthly payment financing. ♪. charles: all right, folks, let's face it, these days when it comes to the stock market it is really all about pond yields and they have been coming down really lovely and the stock market is really loving it especially technology stocks. the quote question throw was the 4% blow off for the 10-year yield is that it? the next question how much up side for the s&p 500? we have andrew thrasher. i have a chart of the s&p 500 and the along with 10-year yield. the 10-year yield is inverted. normally goes this way. it is easy to understand. here is your question. you have the 10-year yield right here, which is the blue line,
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but we got all the way to 4% and that was a pretty dramatic move last week, andrew. i think you were on vacation. also coincided now of course the yields are going down which is inverted here. the nasdaq getting hot again. is this what it is all about right now? is the market keep following these bond yields as a proxy? >> i think it is. we've been 2022 has been the year of the bond market. it has been the year of powell whether we liked it or not. whatever the fed is doing dictated how the markets responding. when ever we see round numbers in this 4% we're seeing the market respond to those. we're seeing bond bears take off. the move in the 10-year it has taken it back to the 20-day moving average. we're not seeing a break down. we look at the tlt popular bond etf, it is not rising back above the 20 day moving average. so we had a nice little recovery here but we need to start see short-term moving averages broken before we get, start
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expecting too much out of this tape. charles: right. is there a sense that 4% that could have been a blow off top? >> i, very well could be. if we start seeing, this is a big jobs week, if we start seeing some disappointment there. we saw the jolt reports, job openings, that is helping fuel the rally right now. we're starting to see fed funds easing back. maybe we don't get 75 basis points at the next fed meeting. that is what the market is keying off of, how aggressive will the fed be? a bad news is good news. disappointing labor market that slows the fed down. but breaking of labor market that will get powell to pause and slow these hikes. charles: we want to emphasize a lagging indicator a lot of folks point to. if that comes in, maybe saying to the fed you're going to aggressively like the jolts report this morning, certainly the pivot conversation comes back up again. speaking of proxies. you told us to watch apple.
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it has gone mostly straight down. the market is starting to break down because of it. pretty good day today. at what point we have this reverse it okay, maybe apple is okay, the broad market is okay? >> i call them the big four, apple, microsoft, tesla, amazon. they may not be at all times the four largest, the four individual stocks the market really keys off of. microsoft made lower lows. we have didn't see apple, amazon or tesla make lower lows. looking apple, the fact we saw return being somewhat after little bit of a safe haven, we were not seeing those key stocks get pounded harder like we saw in the individual market, the s&p 500, that shows us maybe we saw some exhaustive selling. charles: right. >> we're seeing that bounce. we're seeing same leadership going back to small caps that is starting to do really well. growth names are bouncing. tech, consumer discretionary. but we still have energy. energy continues to be a market leader. so we haven't seen new leadership take over, which is
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caric of a new bull market. we're seeing energy being the strongest sector, at least today. but yeah, apple the fact it didn't break that june low is a positive. charles: all right. next time you come, i'm hoping that this 50-day moving average thing is a little bit different. we don't have time to go through it. i like when you really walk us through, to say we can learn. i have to ask, are you getting dresses up for halloween? >> i have a 15 month old daughter who will be a dinosaur. walking her around the neighborhood. not getting too much candy but we'll trot her little dinosaur costume. charles: sounds you will get more candy than anybody else, sounds beautiful and a doshable. andy, thank you very much, my friend. our next guest explains why he is calling this rally a sign of market fragility, not strength folks. u.n. demanding fed stop hiking rates. at 2:40 you have i have the two ogs, forbes and moore.
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♪. charles: folks i'm not superstitious, as i stated earlier so far so good. the market is sticking to the script. and what is the script? over the last 20 years the fourth quarter has rallied 17 times, only not doing it three times! that ain't bad, right? you would bet on that. that is a pretty good track record. my next guest isn't buying it at least not right now. with me data track research cofounder nicholas collis you had a tweet and i found so compelling we have to get him on. the u.s. close was sign of
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market fragility, not strength. what do you mean? we're up over 2%. one of these days 90% of the stocks were up. i thought that was the very definition of strength? >> what is strange looking at 2% days, they are really uncommon. the whole bull market. 2013 to 2019, each had 0 to 4 2% days. we've had 15 just this year. in a bull market it is awesome. in a fragile, shaky market if shows how off things are. charles: if we were up 3%, more bullish, 1 1/2%, maybe more bullish but that 2% thing is really, it is intriguing that you follow it that closely. >> yeah. much nicer to see .5, .5, .3, .7, a bunch less than 1% days stringing together. that is what creates a bull market. low volatility, grinding returns higher. charles: less manic. >> exactly. charles: more orderly rally. >> exactly. charles: one thing you talk about a lot, a lot of folks talk
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about the vix, our audience is intrigued by it, volatility index, fear index, what you call it, two periods, 2,000, 2002 and 2007 to 2009. what is so interesting about that and how does it apply right now? >> what is fascinating about the two periods of long volatility. 20 year average is 20. years where the vix was over 20. it dampens overall valuations. investors are fearful. they don't want to pay the same pe. we don't want the vix to be above 20 all next year. charles: what about guests we have to get to 40 before capitulation, are you in that camp? >> i understand that lows in 2002 and 2009, the vix was 42 to 49. i see how they get there. the magic number is 36. charles: we almost hit that one time. >> march this year. that was the march lows. charles: the important we don't
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have duration, long period of vix up long period of time. kiss 40, come back down we could be off to the race. >> exactly. charles: another tweet i love you put up, because i think this is getting underreported, geopolitical developments around the world, it is amazing. the world really has gone haywire but the same token we had major rallies during wars. what are the keys you want to see resolved. >> you want uncertainty. give you fun fact, why the low 2002 october 9th. when congress approved military action in iraq. weed into what was happening in geopolitics. you don't need to see good news. you need resolution of news. charles: too many unanswered questions right now? >> exactly. charles: war in ukraine, north korea firing off rockets again. does iran deal play into that? >> anything that touches on oil prices is hugely important to the stock market. any country that produces oil, that is very important. charles: in this environment,
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atmosphere, what is an investor to do? do you sit on your hands? do you get some cash? what is the best way to make it through this period particularly if we get some things you're looking for during the fourth quarter, looking at fourth quarter rally? >> what i'm looking for investors to just go slow. when volatility is high doesn't take a lot of capital to make some money. if you're trading use small positions. if you're an investor pick the levels, 3300, 3,000, 2700 where you want to be on the s&p, importantly stick to it. no one buys the lows because when you make the lows everybody is afraid to go lower. charles: i have to tell you, data trek, this is one of the best research sources out there. >> thank you so much. charles: really appreciate it. charles: folks coming up, the u.s. treasury department warning cryptocurrency could threaten the entire u.s. economy. yeah a 2 billion market can knock off a 2 trillion-dollar economy. i can't wait to see what haley linen says about that. u.n. calling central banks to
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halt interest rate hikes at the risk after economic downturn. i have the ultimate power panel, steve moore, steve forbes. they're next. ♪.
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more to the story? reporter: exactly. in fact that warning directed basically at the united states. now the u.s. federal reserve aggressively raising rates has ripple effects around the globe, that pushes other countries to raise rates, possibly pushing those countries into a recession. now in the newly-released u.n. trade development report the first page says this, the world is headed towards a global recession and the prolonged stagnation unless quick change, quickly change the current policy course of monetary and fiscal tightening in advanced economies so in washington today one of the president's economic advisors shifting her tone when talking about a public private partnership during these tough economic times. listen here closely. >> we'll see exactly the same patterns that we've seen coming out of, coming out of the other recessions if there is a cooling then it will have the kind of impact on communities of color first. reporter: coming out of other
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recessions. she says there still, the administration is pushing for more spending to try and bring down inflation is what they say. for example, overseas, the united kingdom is, come with their new prime minister, liz truss, is trying to be more economically responsible, refusing to say specifically what government benefits that, government benefits will rise at the pace of inflation. the inflation is 10% as they try to tackle the inflation that we are seeing here in the united states. one quick thing, charles, i did run right out of the briefing here. it was interesting, the white house press secretary told me that the runoff from the strategic petroleum reserve is set to end at this month. i asked the question what happens next? will there be more releases to that? she said no. there are no conversations about anymore releases from the strategic petroleum reserve as some analysts say, could see a price spike in the price of oil and gas when that leveling effect is no longer in the market. charles? charles: there is something interesting about when you run
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out of something, when the spigot turns off, nothing ain't coming out. they trained the spr. yeah. of course. >> cupboard is bare. charles: thanks a lot, edward. give you props for the breaking news. let's go back to the other breaking news. large globalist organizations trying to interfere with other nations under the guise they care. world bank, imf, threatened italian voters, doesn't vote for this woman we'll cut you off. the italian voters told the elites to go pound sand. joining me two of the very best, freedom works steve moore and "forbes" editor, steve forbes. let me start with you, steve moore, steve forbes, rather. it is really crazy they would have the gall to do this. when the money printing machines are going on, inflation is through the roof, not a peep. >> if they're concerned about bettering the people of the world they would support the british prime minister and
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chancellor exchequer, cutting taxes getting growth so people have more production, more prosperity, higher salaries. instead they go into the opposite direction, more austerity. when the u.n. says it is for the people of the world watch out. clutch what is ever left of your wallet. charles: i think that is indirect war on reaganomics. the power, elites, world economic forum, u.n., all of them are so afraid someone is putting reaganomics into place during a time of crisis, where we could be a year or two in the uk they are really afraid. >> because a loss of power. >> right. >> they want the power, even if people are in poverty they would rather have people in poverty, they have the power than the opposite. charles: u.n. real quick, i want to let the audience know what they're suggesting as an alternative. they want to have price caps, funded, funded by one-off taxes and also to go after the large profits being made by energy companies. >> thank god the united nations
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run the world economy we would be in a great depression. we may be headed there anyway. if you look at this uk tax cut this is really important thing, you know what the price of that was? $2 billion to reduce the highest tax rate which we would know probably raise revenue. $2 billion. the bond market goes haywire. charles: right. >> meanwhile do you know how much money the central governments of the oecd countries borrowed over the last two years? $21 trillion. so you have $21 trillion way up. tiny tax cut down here this will be the end of the world. this shows what a lot of international leaders want more government, more government. that is what the united nations wants. that is what the central banks want. one other quick point when the united nations we care so much about the poor. wait a minute the poor are victims of high inflation. charles: right. >> they get killed by inflation. charles: they're never going to get unpoor, just living
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day-to-day become as big struggle for them. steve, what do you, steve forbes, rather, what do you make then of what's happening just even here in this country right now? where are we going? >> the exact opposite of where we should be going. the early 1980s we learned stablize the dollar, have growth, tax cuts, deregulation, the u.s. booms and rest of the world imitates. 50 countries cutting taxes after we did. we had a global boom for 20 years. so they're doing the opposite. they're suppressing production, not only of energy, but they're raising taxes, that so-called anti-pro-anti-inflation bill which is pro-inflation because it cuts back the economy. charles: right. >> the federal reserve believes the only way you fight inflation is by creating recessions. they want people to be unemployed. so what do you think will happen when governments are working to suppress people from producing rather than encouraging them to produce? charles: you have a piece, steve moore, in the journal on costs on this war on energy that it is
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costing americans. give us that number. >> so we estimate because of what biden has done to shut down american oil and gas, as you know his first act as president what, killing keystone pipeline. charles: he probably did it. he proudly did it. i will destroy the oil and gas industry. >> we estimate, a study i did with casey mulligan, one of the top economists in the country, you know him, he estimates we would be producing $100 billion more gdp with oil and gas output if we had stuck with the trump plan. now, you were talking about the spr. we are the lowest level of the spr since the summer of 1984 when we started building it up in the first place. charles: right. >> we estimate we would be producing, ready for this? five times more oil than biden had to take out of the spr. in other words we wouldn't have to take one drop of oil out of the spr if we just stuck with the trump plan. charles: yesterday ceo of shell the number one crisis, there is no spare capacity around the
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world. no spare capacity. >> oil. charles: that is the number one issue right now. you know, so, steve, they're just some things that steve forbes, there are some things going on. we have the esg movement which is, by the way, playing a big role in this as well. you have got the federal reserve playing a big role. what is the federal reserve ultimate goal here? >> ultimate goal to create a recession. they will call it a soft handing. >> crash landing. >> fed speak for a crash landing because they think that lowers prices they're right. when you depress a economy, you throw businesses out of business. they reduce prices to get rid of inventory. that is what we did in the '70s. get a recession. prices come down. they would undermine the dollar again so you get inflation back again. charles: just a wild -- >> we're back in the 1970s. so amazing. >> crazy unnecessary cycle we're going through. >> this is an investment show. look what happened in the stock market in 1970s, adjusted for inflation, it was down 50%.
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people lost half their money. charles: right. >> during the 1970s, there were all the false rallies and crash. i think we're in a false rally right now. charles: oh, boy, i've been asking everyone today, a little early, but hall -- halloween costumes. >> going at charles payne. charles: that is a good one. you have to get more candy than you get. i would go with the duke brothers from trading places. >> depends on my mood. if i am good mood go as ronald reagan. to frighten people go as joe biden. >> or jerome powell. charles: they will throw tomatoes at you if you go powell. >> where do i get the charles payne mask? charles: they sell them outside. folks that is the power panel right there, the two steeves, the ogs. i have a "my take" you don't want to miss.
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treasury department says crypto to threaten our entire economy. do you believe that? haley linen is in studio. she has a strong rebuttal after the break. ♪. what should the future deliver? (music) progress... (music) ...innovation... (music) ...discovery? or simply stability... you shouldn't have to choose. (music) gold. your strategic advantage. (music) visit
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♪. charles: all right, so i googled kim kardashian crypto posts. i didn't have time to go through all of them. there are 218 billion of them, golly. think about it in the grand scheme of things not the biggest financial story in the world but certainly all the publicity, if publicity is good, that was a home run for crypto. i want to bring in haley linen. lots of people believe gary gensler is going after low-hanging fruit, you have scam after scam after scam, what are your thoughts on this whole thing? >> in a way it is fair to say the sec is going after low-hanging fruit, with the kim kardashian situation, that is something would get a lot of media attention. everything involving the kardashians gets media attention. charles: they are missing everything else. >> there are a lot of things the sec should have stepped in and prevented before harm was caused. this and the coinbase trading
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things that happened few weeks ago, the sec is trying to get small wins or settlements against people, individuals associated with coinbase, saying this one crypto, group of cryptocurrencies are securities. they're in our area. they are trying to get wins through the settlements, the facts whether it's a security or not are not being debated. >> credibility pass they press their case to make it official? >> i think they would like to rely on those wins. charles: right. >> but we have examples of companies and projects that are going and litigating against the ask. sec prove it's a security. in the sec's world they would like everything to be a security. they should be showing that, not just doing these settlements. charles: a lot of people have said listen there is disclosure obligations i guess you have, but you know you have kim kardashian with a tweet. matt damon on the super bowl bragging about crypto.
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the at same token lost in all of this was a headline, treasury financial stability watchdog warns cryptocurrencies could threaten safety of u.s. economy, the entire economy. is it that explosive, is it that dangerous? the entire economy! >> bitcoin is here to stay apparently. what i would say is there is clearly other things that are threatening the u.s. economy more, including how the government has treated inflation and money printings over the last year or two. charles: that's right. >> for cryptocurrency people are entrusting their funds to that. so when there is volatility in the markets and people have not sort of understood the risks associated sure there is risks to that but -- charles: the entire economy that is a little hyperbolic, wouldn't you agree? >> that is what the treasury is designed to protect. the headline, the statement is really jarring at first, they're agreeing with the biden executive order, everyone get in
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line, everyone collaborate, figure out how to regulate the space. we keep having that conversation. charles: i just worry it will be an overreach, there are ulterior motives. there is something else that caught my eye, and i definitely want to get your thoughts on on it. >> yep. charles: apparently this year 12,000 coins gone a month without anybody trading them, a month or more, 12,000 coins. the reason i think this is so important, all the talk about authorities having to come in, sort it all out, regulators sorting it all out, feels like the market is sorting it out, they're deciding what is worth trading which ones aren't. shouldn't we let the market have the last say, the ultimate say when it comes to this kind of thing? >> i think many people would agree that the free market does part of the work for regulators in terms of taking out the trash. there are a lot of cryptocurrencies out there that are not like bitcoin that don't actually have a value proposition or utility and those things should disappear. i mean they should really not -- charles: they will on their own,
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right? >> right. charles: reminds me when they break up a company, when they ultimately i just believe in competition. i also believe people can make their minds up. great to have you in the studio, haley. >> happy to be here. charles: appreciate it. speaking of zombie, folks besides the zombie coins, great little fun in the last hour asking what you will wear as halloween, going a bull or bear. so far the top favorite of main street, i never heard of this inflatable t-rex, "wonder woman," and ride a beer buddy. google that one. jerome powell and friends. you will get no candy. a lot of people tweeting eddie ghabour's idea, bottle of bourbon. father and son, maverick outfit. that is coolest. mp saying get a sharp suit going as cvp. my man. that will get all the candy right there. my take on unmitigated disaster on the road the road to the
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kardia also gives you access to heart health reports and automatic ekg sharing. what next? let's get some fresh air. been cooped up for too long. yeah... ♪ kardia mobile card is available for just $99. get yours at or amazon. charles: the biggest topic in the world right now in the so called developed nations is how people are going to stay warm this winter a. lot of schemes being put into place to cap prices for residents and small businesses and any kind of money will come from the public coffers. in europe, they've gone back before the time of fossil fuels in general when humans, you
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know, fossil fuels powered us into existence and the great life we enjoy and now going back to wood and coal. in the uk, a power owner accused of busting down a forest and the forest is now being gutted and the uk company receives a $6 billion in subs subsidies and subsidies andpellets are renewae think think it was part of the plan and look at this chart from 1974 in germany and it was their plan for energy in the future and what i really love about this is they were smart. this isn't oil. they actually said oil will go down and what was goon power them, nuclear power and this is 1954 and nuclear power taking them through the roof.
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and as i mentioned today, the ceo of shell oil warned that a lack of investment in crude oil is critical and we'll pay a significant price for this and the world cannot survive without spare crude oil capacity. keep that in mind. keep in mind this is one heck of a rally. liz: all you guys have to do is look at intraday chart of twitter and it is halted at $47.93 for a jump of 12.6%. all you have to do is look at that to se


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