neil: all right, if you're looking for a santa claus rally, we better keep things going and fast. charles payne right right now. charles: i hear sleighbells. neil: you're working too hard. charles: i think i am. thank you, neil.

i'm charles payne, this is make an money. -- making money. i have on deck for you bob doll, tom mcclellan, dave bahnsen and sylvia jablonski will break down the best moon shoots and why fomo is never the best way to invest. programs bolstering the labor shortage as ceo confidence is now at an all-time low. economist dane at that petersen, joe lavorgna taking that on and kenny pell cary is with us to say should we bend to the fed's will? my take on why lawmakers on both sides are already focused on the wrong things and maybe on purpose. all that and so much more on "making money". ♪. charles: so this morning we had another wave of disappointing

news. almost everything that came out was a miss, including a huge decline in housing permits. the news that grabbed headlines, it came from the land of the rising sun. the bank of japan cap on bond yield. look at this spike, folks. from a quarter of a percent to half a percent, the headlines were like, it was shocking. it was terrifying. so far i don't see it. meanwhile there is, there is really something that we should be looking at with respect to japan. this is what i'm kind of worried about and it's a reminder, these are foreign holders of our bonds. we issue bonds to keep the government going. you notice, japan, year ago 1.3 trillion, down to a trillion dollars. china less than a trillion dollars. at one point they were largest holder. if there is a problem in japan, they have to funnel money to keep their economy going who will buy our bonds?

stock pessimism reins and it is very profitable. investors look for things to get a lot worse. this from schwab yesterday. this is the 30 day moving average on put calls. it is at the highest level since so long since 2008. that means people expect this market to actually implode which brings us to the age-old question, buy, sell or hold? i mean ultimately that is what we're talking about here. when you start to talk to wall street analysts, the ones who are most excited those who are covering energy. you can see right here, energy has the largest amount of buy signals. on other hand, consumer staples they have the fewest buys, which is interesting, how many guests say i like consumer staples, it's a safe haven? take general mills. reported earnings this morning. they make everything, cheerios, dozens of brands, they did extraordinarily well. they beat the street. what is the problem? why is the stock down? this is probably the reason.

the forward p-e ratio. this is the valuation afforded company, at 21 times. in 2018, a few years ago, this was less than 13. this is a very, very expensive stock. hens the stock is down on great news. we have bob doll. bob, tell you, before i start with anything, i have to talk about your 10 predictions because that is what the street does. you're listing it, winding it up a little bit. your list looked pretty good again. .5 correct out of the 10. --.5 correct out out of the 10. what is the beggest take away outside of politics and gop not winning the senate you got wrong? >> we got some of the sector calls wrong. we thought some of the energy

stocks would do well. we also thought financials would do well. they have been okay but, nothing to write home about. what we could have done better on the sector call, my friend. charles: i will go back to financials because that is the second lowest right now in terms of analysts that cover this space. you're not the only one who got that wrong. almost everyone loved financials in january. it was a pretty simple and smart way to love them, right? you knew rates would go up was supposed to help financials. not even analysts that follow it are that excited about it. what happened? what went wrong there? >> i think the recession fears are never great for financials, if we have the recession, quality is a problem, too many write-offs. i think that was way overdone. the stocks are even cheaper than they were, and balance sheets are much higher quality than any other time we've been in front of a potential recession. charles: you know, it seems so easy and then because it doesn't work you have to scratch your head and wonder.

i know you have a new list at midnight december 30th. can we get a little hint, one prediction? [laughter] >> guess what? financials will be back on the list. charles: [laughter]. okay, you got it. let's, let's talk about the boj news because i am looking i'm toggling around and everyone is going nuts. over at bloomberg their hair was on fire. what does it mean for american investors that the boj made that move? >> it raises the floor on interest rates globally which means all interest rates can go up a little more. maybe five or 10 basis points, in u.s. yields, maybe 15. they were up again today. it raises that floor and therefore global interest rates are a little higher. we're told not to make too much of it. there are esoteric reasons japan did it but nevertheless the rates are up. charles: bob, it is tough right

now, a company, i'm going back to general mills, they executed greatly. if you're in the executive suite of general mills you feel great about yourself. you delivered on revenues, you delivered on earnings, the stock is down 4%. valuations how does an investor grapple in an environment people say look for quality, look for safety, this would seem to fit the bill for both, so what are you focusing on now with respect to valuations? >> it is hard to find cheap stocks with high quality. so that is the tradeoff. general mills stock has done very well this year including 4% whatever is the decline today. so i think you have to have some of those in your portfolio but don't ignore the cheap financials. don't ignore the energy stocks. i know they're up on a flagpole but they're coining money, the cash flee is pan fantastic. there is lots of places to shop in the defensive horrible environment. charles: bob, say merry christmas to you.

we appreciate all the help and guidance you have given us this year. thank you so much. >> see you soon. >> see you soon. we've been hearing this phrase santa class rally for weeks now, right? some are say it started in october with the bear market bounce. most people have the parameters of this rally wrong. i think more importantly the implications beyond the fact because we kind of treat it like, okay, we don't end the year on upbeat but there is more to it than that and i want to bring in mcclellan market report he had are tom mcclellan. tom, this morning s&p made a note so far in december we're down 6.4%. making it the second worse the santa claus season since the index began in 1957. what is a santa claus rally, what is it really, what are the parameters, why is it so important? >> the term gets misused a lot. people think it is any rally happens anytime in december. it was first coined in the

'60s, the late yale hirsch wrote stock-pickers almanac and expanded on by his son jeffrey. it refers to the last five trading days of the year plus the first two trading days of the new year. it is not just any ol' rally but real specific. yale hirsch coined the term, the phrase, if santa call the bears ney come to broad and wall. the idea this is normally seasonally strong period. it has only been down 20 times out of the last 93 years. so generally speaking it is supposed to be an up period. if it is not a up period, that is a sign of trouble at least that was the thinking t used to work pretty well. it hasn't worked as well in recent years as an omen. >> i'm glad you brought up the point there are implications beyond just how the year ends. as i pointed out, s&p saying okay, so far this is the second worst december. you go back a few years, it was

bad. then i think this is going back to 1957. you're i think if i read this right, looking at a bottom this week. according to the mcclellan advance-decline oscillator. give your parents props. we never do. they created it in 1969. are you getting a sense from that work we could still get this rally ? >> yeah, we saw a minus 200 oscillator reading yesterday. that is a nice oversold reading. not as oversold as it can possibly get but it is good enough to mark a bottom if the market wants to. we had a bottom that was due based on our predictive work on the 19th or the 20th. today is the 20th. probably came in on the 19th. there are downside objectives not fulfilled. i have a head and shoulders objective for the dow down to 32. we're not quite there. the day is not over. we have a little under two hours to get that done. i've been calling this bottom, the bottom that the market goes down into.

there is one more bottom coming. it is due the first week in january. i call that the bottom of the market will go up out of. a bottom doesn't have to do both jobs. you can get down to the bottom of the rocky mountains and hit the prairie but that is not necessarily when you will start going up again. i think that the bottom in first week of january is the bottom we go up out of. i think that we're going to see really strong month of january that will get everybody all excited about the new year and third year of the presidential term and january barometer which is a good omen for the year. everybody will get excited but i think we may top the year at the end of january after we get everybody excited about how bullish it is supposed to be. charles: oh, boy. in other words, enjoy it while you can. tom, glad you set us straight on this. listen, you're one of the best. so i appreciate it. thank you so much, merry christmas. >> to you too as well, charles. good-bye. charles: see you soon. when it comes to sectors as i talked about earlier, 2022, i mean, this is what 2022 looked like. you got energy and then you got

everybody else below that zero percent line. my next guest by the way was in this long before it happened. he is still riding this wave. bring in the bahnsen group managing director, david bahnsen. david, i read where energy companies are buying back their own stock right now big time. after a huge rally. often on wall street they say contrarian sign. is it smart this time around? >> you have to remember with exxon and chevron, charles that this isn't new. they have been big repurchasers of stock for a while. where i get concerned is when a company starts buying back stock with excess free cash flow and not investing into cap-ex, capital expenditures necessary for productive growth of the company. that is also the big political disagreement is people say, hey, companies are buying back stocks and they're not hiring more, they're not putting in new investment for new projects and factories and opportunities. well let's look at exxon and chevron. $25 billion of cap-ex for exxon.

$17 billion for chevron. so they are doing a lot of stock buybacks while they are two of the leading dividend-payers and dividend growers. they have each grown the dividend 40 years in a row while they represent two of the biggest investors into the future that we have in the stock market. charles: so if anyone from the administration is watching, there is your answer because -- >> yes. charles: it has become political fodder. i agree with you. the sector looks extraordinarily cheap in so many different ways. i do want to ask something i saw from you that you wrote about 2023. you say ask the same question investors should always ask. what is that question? >> i think investors always need to ask where is their value? that is not reflected in the price. this was the huge problem with fang investors coming into 2022.

admittedly it isn't their fault. they got numbed because every year you thought it was pricey and it kept going higher. kept going higher. bubbles have a way of doing that, where things get too expensive. then they get more expensive. but the problem was that every bullish thing one could say about google or netflix, especially amazon was reflected in the price and then some. i want people going into next year to say, okay, what's a good investable story that is not something fully priced in? that to me is the key question as we enter the new year. charles: history going all the way back, brilliant, brilliant people who succumb saying forget about it. to your point it does at a certain point it feels like you're missing the ride, you're firsting the boat and you do jump on and sir isaac newton was a prime example, right? he lost all of his fortune chasing a bubble he warned his friends not to buy in the beginning. i got a minute to go. you love energy.

you talked about it in the past. you like chips as well. they have been sort of maddening. how do you differentiate chips from some of the high flying tech names. >> i like, i'm a bottom up guy, charles. we're stock-pickers. we run an active concentrated dividend portfolio. i look at company like intel invested in manufacturing chips in arizona and ohio. it is high ip. we know taiwan semiconductor is doing and wall street hates it. intel is our worst performer of the year. we've had a great year but intel is down a lot. that's why i love it. eight times earnings. 5 1/2% dividend yield. and they are investing in something that is going to make a lot of money in the future but it cost a lot of money along the bay? is the contrarian way into chips. manufacturing semis into the future. charles: you had me at 5 1/2% dividend yield.

i did not know that david, always great talking. thank you very much. >> thanks, charles. charles: all right, folks coming up the biggest banks in the country are almost highest leveraged in this country. not only that though, there is some other real red signals out there. we have economist joe lavorgna to hash it all out. theme investing was a big deal, maybe not as much anymore. maybe that is why we should look at it. we have sylvia jablonski to preview that at 2:50. first grab a pen and pad. we'll go to chart school. michael cramer is next. he is doing the analog stuff earlier than in else. i'm not sure where you will like it. he will discuss it here in studio. ♪.

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♪. charles: so i noticed a lot of debate on over who spotted the current market moves along with the 2008 analog. i tell you my next guest has been pointing this out in a long time he is in studio.

michael kramer. michael, i personally don't put a lot of stock in these kind of things unless there is some sort of fundamentals, if the fundamentals are the same, that kind of makes me look at it. for the folks watching at home, you have got where the market is now in yellow, where it was in 2008, 2008-2009 time frame. >> right. charles: if history repeats itself we go a whole lot lower. you spotted it a while back. what are the odds it works out that way? >> this chart continues to surprise even myself despite certain scenarios where it will go off kilter. we have to remember that big drop in this region here was due to lehman and failure to get tarp passed. >> right. >> if we think about it not likely seeing the same scenario lay out, but again we're going into the end of the year, beginning of the year. you could see earnings begin to role roll over, that could --

charles: that was huge. stopped presidential election. both candidates stopped campaigning t was a trillion dollars. when they passed it the market felonyaway. the idea they passed it underscored we were in trouble. >> in trouble. charles: it doesn't feel like we're anywhere near anything like that. s&p fell at 200 day there. then the rally corrected, failed again. now it is failing again. i mean, golly, do we have to go back down here? a lot of folk always say we have to retest the lows before you establish a real uptrend. is that the case now or can we avoid that fate? >> what i've been looking for us to get back to the 3750 area. then potentially 3580ish area or so where we have two gaps left to fill f you equate that to the 2008 analog which has been working, it does suggest we see a lower low. again a lot of that depend how fundamentals go and how earnings sort of coming out. charles: recently you're tweeting a lot about the new

highs versus new lows. >> right. charles: we can see the new lows were astronomical this summer when the rally failed going into the fall. we started picking up here. everyone talking about the thrust, internals. the market was bouncing. >> right. charles: but more participation. that had a lot of folks including me, i was pretty excited. >> right. charles: now of course it is going the exact opposite way. we're starting to turn down here. >> right. charles: is there a point we really start to bite our nails? >> i think what i've been watching here specifically that curve back down again trying to see in anticipation of that telling us where, that we'll see lower prices. charles: right. >> i think mostly if we get down to that negative 500 to 700 range probably going to indicate more towards a bottom than it is likely that we'll see a, you know continued losses. charles: right. that was sort of the case here. we stopped down and did come back. >> right. exhaustion. charles: that would be capitulation. >> right. charles: 30 sicks left what are you doing now? are you doing anything, sitting

on cash what are you looking at? >> last couple weeks i look to raise cash going into the move higher, i'm anticipating a drop back down to the lows. with my long positions that i currently own, holding them in high quality names, raising cash. charles: you're ready to buy the dip? >> i would like to buy something should it come down. charles: the big one, looking for the big one, you will buy the big one? >> i would like to buy something if we come down again. that is what i've been trying to do the whole time. charles: we all have. this is the worst year in decades to buy the dip, really try to force it. let the washout happen i guess you're saying? >> exactly. >> great stuff, michael. all right, folks, coming up how you can make sure you don't fall into the sort of fomo trap. talking thematic investing with sylvia jablonski at 2:50. first there is a new study how much welfare programs are hurting folks because they're sitting out of the workforce. we'll take you to washington, d.c., for more details next.

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charles: more and more americans opting out of the labor force, incentives to stay home probably a big reason why. hillary vaughn with more on the story from washington. hillary? >> reporter: good afternoon, charles. we're two years removed from the pandemic. there are still millions of people out of works force even though there are plenty of jobs available for people who would want one. 3 million fewer people working today compared to pre-pandemic february 2020. the case of missing millions from the workforce has been a mystery to some but there are a few factors experts say are causing it. early retirement is one. another they say is the benefits of staying out of work or paying

more in some states. the committee to unleash prosperity did a study, they say it is generous unemployment benefits are keeping some people out of the workforce. in some states it pays pretty well to be unemployed with generous government benefits bringing in enough cash to equal a median household income in about 24 states. according to analysis from the committee to unleash prosperity, the group says existing unemployment benefits and the dramatically recent expansion of obamacare subsidies, spouses would have to earn 80,000-dollar a years with 40 hour a week job with two unemployed spouses receiving unemployment benefits. most generous states would out of work benefits, washington, where you add everything up, it is same as making 30 bucks an hour. these benefits are not endless. they expire after a period of

time but the time they pay out, the benefits are generous. charles: gaps in your working and it might be a faustian deal. frustration is starting to mount in our economy. two of the most important reports from the conference board adding to sort of sobering reality. i want to bring in from the conference board, their chief economist, amy petersen. lei, levels in the past have been associated with recessions. how do you interpret the weakness? >> sure. the lei definitely is signaling recession right about now or early next year. certainly when we look at the individual components a number of factors have been weaker, certainly housing permits. but also the financial market indicators, consumer confidence indicators and the ism new orders measure. charles: so, is there any area

there that sort of stands out? or does it feel like a certain point when enough of indicators like a seesaw, do they all eventually pull each other in one direction or another? >> ultimately yes, if the economy goes in recession, they all tend to go in the same direction. most indicators are headed downwards. like i said when you add them all together, they are pointing to recession. charles: i was reading also the ceo confidence report. apparently came in at an all-time low. also what brought it up for me, goldman referenced this report, as a reason for them being underwait industrial stocks. and that sector has been on fire. what are the historic ramifications from the ceo confidence reading this low? >> sure, last couple of times during the low it was during the pandemic. back during the great financial crisis, during the great recession. we definitely think weak reads we've been seeing in the report since the springtime are also

pointing to recession, either starting right now again or early next year. charles: what about the state of the consumer? you know, your consumer confidence read, had been relatively elevated. are you starting to see any signs of weakness there? >> well, in the november report we did see some signs of weakness for consumers. we're expressing concerns about the future with respect to business conditions, employment and also financial, their own personal finances. that now, that all suggests that businesses, consumers are concerned that businesses might start letting them go and certainly with high inflation that is not a good sign for personal finances. so that could cut into consumption. charles: dana, i got 30 seconds, just your thoughts then, these reads are pointing directly at recession either now or very soon, yet the federal reserve is extraordinarily hawkish, at least sounding extraordinarily hawkish. many are turning what could be a

guarden variety recession into something much deeper. do you have those concerns yet? >> we don't have those concerns. there is certainly a risk but there is also the other side of the coin many may say we could have a soft landing certainly where you don't see material declines in labor market activity. but i think it is probably unlikely the fed can bring down inflation without causing some pain. so it is still our base case we will have a recession, short and shallow. charles: all right. short and shallow. i like that. thank you so much, dana. i appreciate it. >> thank you. charles: so right now fed rate policy is centered on the jobs market, right? they're saying wagers are far too strong, their words, not mine but there is a report out of the cleveland fed which does this amazing work all the time and this paper sort of suggests that maybe the testimony omc is taking the wrong approach. former white house chief economist, snbc chief economist, joe lavorgna. joe, there is a line that stuck

with me on the analysis. our analysis that central banks should respond to labor supply shock lowers natural rate of employment letting employment adjust partially, mitigating a decline in labor supply that puts upward pressure on wage growth and inflation and optimal policy response that yield employment gap never entails a period of higher inflation. some of this went over my head, i'm not a economist. maybe they're saying the fed should be zigging rather than zagging. >> a little little bit of inflas good. the problem with this analysis, assuming too many people working indicates inflation, that is not the case, even with the fed talking about high wage growth. there is virtually no evidence over time that suggest wages even drive inflation. inflation is a very difficult pros test to determine. charles: isn't that the beast -- >> it is the beast because the fed moved for the last 30 years

since the savings and loan crisis, credit crunch of the early '90s, fed de-emphasized monetary aggregates, focused on things like out put gaps. in other words where is the economy relative to its potential? where the unemployment rate relative to its potential? when too many people are working or unemployment rate is too low, the fed gets nervous that is a sign inflation will pick up. therefore they intentionally want the labor market to weaken. it is in their own forecast. they say it will rise into the mid 4s next year. we never had the recession where unemployment rate risen half a point. it is never right to gauge policy. i want the fed to focus on measures of money creation but that is long gone. charles: that is amazing, that is a huge, huge statement you just made. let me ask you about the boj news? is it important? why does it matter to an american investor? >> matters for few reasons, not

the least of which japan is one of the largest industrialized countries in the world. traders use the yen with cheap sort of funding with low rates. carry trades basically priced in yen. all of sudden the bank of japan is trying to normalize rates, they might be, we won't know until kiroda is replaced in april. this could set in motion some attempt to normalize in japan. that is the last holdout. charles: i never thought they would cross the rubicon. >> some argued today they did cross the rubicon. the one thing when you see monetary policy having been extraordinarily accommodative as you have in the u.s., obviously been in the case in japan arguably for even longer and policymakers try to normalize, that takes liquidity out of market, hurts risk-taking. we saw it happen with stocks and bonds. that is something to watch. it could be very important. charles: i have 30 seconds, fed discount window starting to see increase in activity there.

yellow flag, red flag, should we be worried? >> we could be worried. i don't want to down play it but i think one of those things maybe we're exaggerating. hough, charles, the fed moved a lot. we're kind of due for a crisis given how much they hiked. charles: we talked about that from a charting perspective from 2008. if we follow 2008 i don't think there is any way that can happen without a crisis we're not prepared for. i hope that is not true. i love when you say about wages and inflation. thank you, joe. >> thank you, charles. charles: former fed president bill dudley that investors would be better off if they believed the fed. do whatever the ned says, if they tell you to sell everything just do it. can we accept defeat? is that in our bones. with 2020 around the corner, the i will ask sylvia jablonski the hottest themes and why.

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♪. charles: yesterday, former new york fed president bill dudley wrote an op-ed in bloomberg t was entitled, investors would be better off believing the fed. that is sort of defeat, right? let's face it i don't think we're necessarily hardwired to accept those kind of defeats. joining me slatestone wealth chief market strategist kenny polcari. kenny, listen, i understand some of the greatest generals in history learned how to retreat like george washington but how do you explain to investors you deal with, okay we'll succumb to the fed's will, for the markets to go lower, for us to lose money and then wait it out? >> well listen, just because the market goes lower doesn't necessarily mean you have to lose money.

you will not make great gains but look at industries done real well this year, energy up 55%. no one is arguing if you were in energy you're losing money, right? but what i think you have to understand either to seasoned investor or new investor you have to talk about the booms and the busts and cycles in the economy why we're at where we're at but why it does in fact create a long-term opportunity if you're a long term investor setting up, right? you need to position yourself to ride that wave. i don't think it's a matter of light your hair on fire, run out the door, i think it is a matter of understanding the cycles to be able to adjust for it. charles: with that in mind, morgan stanley, goldman sachs saying s&p 5,003,000. that would make you excited if we get down there. obviously more opportunities are created under that pressure? >> listen, s&p 3,000 is another 20% down from here which then means we're down 40% off the january highs, right at 4818.

that would be a really tough pill to swallow for sure. i'm not necessarily sure i'm in that camp. do i see further weakness ahead? yes i do, but i see that as an opportunity. sure if we get down to s&p 3,000 i think you have to back up the truck at that point, right? charles: right. >> because you had this massive move. listen i think some of that i think them talking their book and investment bankers. they have got these indications where the market is going to be at the end of the year, they have to justify it somehow. i think mike wilson's analysis while i appreciate him and his analysis i think it's very, very, it is too far left for me. i don't see it going that -- i don't see s&p earnings going to 1 $80 a share down from 230. i don't see it. maybe. charles: i tell people when they mention things like that to me, ask yourself if you think morgan stanley and goldman sachs are completely out of the market? >> exactly.

charles: when they go into all cash, let me know. >> right. charles: let me ask you about earnings after the close. we have two big ones, nike and fedex. consumers under the microscope. what are you expecting? >> consumers are under the microscope and nike will be very interesting because i see nike as consumer did discretionary name not so much a staple. i would be out of that. i would be a hold. listen to nike what they say about the supply chain. how much inventory? how much does it mean for promotions? how does the consumer paying? or paying the prices or want more of a discount? where are the revenues? did they miss or beat or just meet expectations. then as always, what's the forward guidance considering this whole recession story that everyone is talking about? how does nike see this recession playing out? the same for fedex, right? you saw what fedex did in september. they made the big announcement. they pulled back. started furloughing people. the stock sold off 25% in one day.

it is down 3% -- 38% on the year. i don't know about you i don't understand why fedex says business is no good. there are more fedex trucks than i've seen in so long. they are at my house three times a day. charles: i set up deal at ups. they set up a distribution center at my house. save us both time and money. kenny, thanks a lot, my friend. >> my pleasure. charles: moral of the story, be proactive and not succumb. the saga of sam bankman-fried. lawmakers are all over the news. be careful. we'll get into key investments themes in 2023 from sylvia jablonski. that's next. ♪.

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no wonder xfinity mobile is one of the fastest growing mobile services, now with over 5 million customers and counting. get in on the savings and switch today. charles: all right, folks, it is theme time. i love futuristic themes. i grew up in the age of rocket ships going to the moon, computers, hand cranked windshield on the car i remember

that. obsolescence to maximizing the best in humankind i think is really exciting. the problem of course this stuff never happens overnight. that is the challenge for investors who want to be on the ground floor. joining me defiance etf, cio, ceo, sylvia jablonski. the investment themes in general didn't have a good year. some stood out, right? like moonshots. i love moonshots, some were farfetched immortality. this is down 60% on the year. fomo, maybe the name gave it away. a little bit too hip for most people. this down 36% this year. but, you know, you do, you have these kind of things. i notice your etfs are much more specifically focused. is that the way to go? >> hi, charles, great to see you. well it turns out you shouldn't have had any fomo on fomo. i think the meme stock craze just sort of crashed, right? that became a trade that didn't work. in terms of moonshots i think

that is a little bit after different story. that etf i have a lot of faith in actually. that is early stage innovations. these things will take five to 10 years to play out. i don't think anybody would sell you in any other way. charles: right. >> particularly with rate hikes and tech falling. it is just not today's trade. set it, forget it, look at 10 years later trade. we like to go about it, by becoming more niche and specific. for example, we target quantum computing instead of overall tech innovation because we sort of like companies like ibm and google everybody already knows, invest in for other reasons that are major players in that space. ibm may come out with a quantum computer in two years. that is investable. we look at that in that sense. charles: i love the quantum computing. november 26, "barron's" the quantum leap. feels like it is close. you see where america leapfrogged japan or china with

the fastest computer out there. we know everyone working on this will solve all their issues. this does feel a lot closer. when you see it on the cover of "barron's," these other things, is it a sign maybe people should at least become more aware of them? >> well, i think that it exists already, right? charles: right. >> you can use quantum computing for encryption and cybersecurity. you can't encrypt quantum computer. it takes traditional computer 10,000 years to do. that already exists, right? charles: wow. >> next couple years to al ply it to larger things, health care, generate data in seconds. better defense targets, to have the correct credit score at a bank when giving somebody a loan or reviewing a hedge fund's history. quantum computing allows

calculations quickly t brings efficiency to the space. it is already there in that sense. we're not talking about augmented reality universe, that is quantum. but practical quantum is showing up day-to-day already. charles: great point. sylvia, you're the best. >> have a great day. charles: you too. my takeaway on sam bankman-fried. the saga nearing the point where he probably will fly back to the united states. well now lawmakers are getting involved. they're sending out the wrong messages, maybe for a reason. we'll be right back.to d ♪. fai charging something like a hundred bucks a window when other guys were charging four to five-hundred bucks. he just didn't wanna do that. he was proud of the price he was charging. ♪ my dad instilled in me, always put the people before the money. ...

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charles: you know, putting up the sense now, lots of anticipation over sam bankman-fried being extradited back to the united states. now initially it was thought that well maybe he just sort of run out the clock and just hang out at one of these jails but turns out there's nothing like these jail cells nothing like his real estate holdings on the island, like the $30 million condo he's got or that 16 million old fort bay vacation home that somehow ended up in his parent's hands. meanwhile though, here in america lawmakers are going nuts giving out lots of sound bites making me nervous so senators warren and brown today, and they are adimate we're going after crypto, we're going to destroy this market by regulating it to death. they were public lawmakers also focusing on conspiracy charges and donations to democrats which is fine but here is the thing. i fear both parties come up far short of pulling the curtain all

the way back folks. we want to pull this all the way back because it's a system that preys on the retail investors. they make billions and billions and billions and billions of dollars legally by overcharging you for everything including the stocks that you own. so we need to find a solution. lawmakers need to be on the side of the american public and the american investors. unfortunately, both sides of the aisle go along with this all the time, in the meantime, the american public and sort of force change, but listen. you've got to sort of step away from being too political yourself right? some folks believe part of these political parties if you want a real revolution, if you want really to change your life with respect to the markets and a better financial system be less political. be less political, and don't let our politicians go there either. liz over to you. liz: yes, let's work together and make something valuable happen. by the way we've got the blockchain.com ceo, charles. charles: whoa okay. liz: we'll be getting everybody the very latest