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tv   Making Money With Charles Payne  FOX Business  December 21, 2022 2:00pm-3:00pm EST

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neil: all right. we got a santa claus rally going on wall street. we're waiting for an historic event outside of the white house with the president of the united states, his counterpart ukrainian president zelenskyy will address the press very shortly. a lot going on here. a big storm as well. so much time, charles payne now. charles. charles: neil, thank you very much my friend. good afternoon, i'm charles payne. this is "making money." breaking now the stocks are higher as market responds to
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favorable earnings and good consumer news. do they crack the code on wall street to buy instead of selling? i have fundamental school with phil blancato. today's session can't mask the fact that 2022 has been a year in hell for investors. we'll navigate the divine comedy, with gary kaltbaum, jill hall, callie cox. you heard moments away, ukrainian president zelenskyy will arrive to the white house. first overseas trip since the russian invasion. he is making rounds for $45 billion for ukraine in the spending package. steve moore weighing in. the monstrosity that is the omnibus bill. washington licking their chops over sbf's extradition. he is not their target. my takeaway getting middle class folks not to invest claiming the federal reserve is their friend. all that and more on "making money". ♪. charles: so in 10 days we'll be
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sanking "auld lang syne," times long past. bye 2022, hello 2023 here is the reason. carnage has been horrific, folks. look at this, $12 trillion in losses for the russell 3,000. the only worst time was during the pandemic. really this is historic stuff. here's the thing big names let us down. look at this the big six, losses applehundred billion, microsoft close to 800 billion. amazon crossed the one trillion mark yesterday. absolute carnage for names that led us more than a decade. now they're leading the market down much, much lower. as a consequence, as a consequence people are fleeing the market. active equity flows in yellow. this is freefall. i hope this does not include you although a lot of people out there are throwing in the towel. wall street loves to throw in the towel. when someone sells someone on the other side is buying. here is what you're afraid of. we talk about the bear market
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rallies. what happens when they fizzle out? each time they have gone down and set new lows, lower here, lower here, lower here, down 19% the last time the rally fizzles. if this one fizzles, folks more than likely we'll go down. i tell you something, a lot of ways this reminds me of the nine circles of hell in dante's divine comedy. joining me kaltbaum capital management president gary kaltbaum. this is interesting, gary, greed, a lot of people were guilty of over la few years. followed by anger which a lot of people feel at this very moment. here's the thing. investors are sitting on a lot of losses, right? but they were winners. how do you navigate this, a stock you're up big on 10, 20, 30% starts to give a little bit away, maybe you find yourself losing on that or has that ever happened? >> look, this four letters that i think that most people don't
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recognize that they can do in markets and that's sell. i'm always amazed how somebody will ride something down. i spoke to somebody the other day who bought a stock at 100, went to 300, now 70. they still own it. somewhere along the line you take some sort of action, you're dealing with price, not just company. you get paid on price or you lose on price. charles: right. >> for me the most important part of the equation. i will never let that happen. there is certain point in time as a technician first and foremost i recognize something is getting in trouble. if it gets too deep in trouble i go bye-bye. the reason i sat out the bear market. most of it -- charles: gary, put you on pause. president zelenskyy of ukraine arrived at the white house. let's take a look.
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[inaudible]. charles: all --. [inaudible]? >> shouting questions in foreign language. charles: ukraine, effort to push back against the invaders. a lot more, this will go a long way. this is zelenskyy's first trip outside of ukraine since the russian invasion. so expect a lot of news to be coming out of there. we'll keep you abreast as the news comes through without a doubt. get back to our guest
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gary kaltbaum. like what you're saying with respect to the four-letter word sell. emotions are very tough. people maybe should consider a professional from time too time. check out nike's earnings. i went to the home pain, the investor page, and this is what they wrote. nike is a growth company. i find that to be so astonishing wall street says growth is dead. they say hell no. wink, wink we like our stock treated like that up big today for sure. >> they hope to be growth. last four quarters earnings were down. this quarter sales growth much better. for me growth always wins out. he trying to teach anybody who would listen over time you find the companies that grow their business stronger and long irthan the rest and i will show you the best stocks in the market. i have taught people go back in history, go to amgen in the '80s came out with epogen.
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the stock went all gazillion fold. growth stocks are in bad shape, people talking them down, i am thrilled. only thing i know 100 plus years of history in the market find greatest growth companies with strong demand for their products an services i will show you the five and 10-baggers going forward. they're marking them down. i suspect there will be more to go. i will be ready when the time comes. you will find them on the new yearly high list. charles: right. >> find them in companies growing their business, 100, 200, 300%. y yea. charles: mice bounce today. this is not enough to lure you off the sidelines per se how much do you need to take the bait and go after those names that are on your buy list? >> i think the market after getting trashed for a few days probably hit a low. talk to any technician the dow came right down to the 50-day moving average, bouncing today.
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so i think we got a few more days in the year. probably get are upside testing. i need leadership. 15 minutes ago i counted new yearly highs in the market, there were seven. good markets you get 800, 900, a thousand. new yearly lows continue to outstrip those new yearly highs. until that dynamic changes you have to be very, very careful. you know what's happened in the last year, every rally has been sold off and sold off pretty viciously. my big interest is the first quarter of the year. why? because i'm hearing everybody saying it has to go down. i will be watching price and patterns. if it says something else i will do something different. charles: yeah. seven, you're saying we got a chance, right? gary, thank you so much, my friend. >> always have a chance my friend. never lose focus. charles: thanks a lot, buddy, always appreciate it. bring in bank of america u.s. equity strategist jill hall. from what i understand reading your notes you see early weakness in 2023.
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maybe later on in the second half of the year. you used a term i'm not fpl lar without decking as opposed to indexing. what does it mean? familiar with, outdexin. charles: before we go lower. >> at some point next year. we go below where we are now. bear case the floor on the market could be as low as 3,000. our year-end target for end of next year, s&p 500, is 4,000. we expect the market to be -- charles: that would be a hell of a move. 30% move off the potential low. what would drive that? >> usually the market, we're all expecting this recession next year. usually the market bottoms six months before the end of a recession. if sentiment continues sufficiently negative. usually the market will bottom once we see sufficient amount of bearishness out there and some other signals we're looking at.
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charles: let me ask you about megacap names. i was looking at your note. they lost trillions of dollars. there will be new megacap names if i'm interpreting this correctly. berkshire hathaway for instance, broke back into the top five or new leadership among these old names. is that the only way they can sort of come out of the ashes? >> when you look what happens over every market cycle ashley the old leadership is not what is then the new leadership. tech and growth stocks have been the leadership for much of the last 10 years during this cycle, bringing it back to your question about outde x-ing rather than indexing. we think a lot of top 50 megacaps. a lot are big tech and growth stocks dominating the market cap. we think they have been the leadership but not going to be the leadership in the new cycle. there are areas in the market one can focus on just beyond that pocket. charles: let's talk about one that caught my attention, the russell 2000. if i read this correctly, looking potentially double-digit
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double-digit gains for small caps on 10-year period. >> annualized basis. it could be a really good decade for small caps relative to large. near term we expect volatility in the market. if we see downside risk for equities you could see downside risks for smaller stocks than larger stocks. typically you don't want to hold smaller stocks heading into recession. we think their valuations are already reflecting it. they were the best performers in the mid '70s, early '80s, last time the fed was trying to tame high inflation. benefit from corporate spending on cap-ex in the u.s. they held up well inflationary backdrops or inflation slowing. we think that could be a pocket of market poised to do well before it you know performed. charles: before you go, biggest concern, big thing investors should have? word patience come up in a lot last couple weeks. do you agree with that? >> certainly for long-term investors, s&p 500, still see
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potential positive annualized returns long time horizon, 10 years. we see potential for mid single-digit annualized returns for equities, even higher for small caps as we mentioned. you know, other opportunities is picking stocks. we do think we're in a backdrop where you know, active management rather than indexing makes sense. charles: active management, selling that off might be a big mistake particularly for people at this time when individual stocks become so attractive. jill, thank you so much. >> thank you. charles: folks you know what? we want to stick with the theme of dante and the circles of hell. my next guest says 2023 is looking like a year of portfolio purgatory. i want to bring in etoro callie cox. 2023 doesn't sound too pleasant but here's the thing, will it be better than 2022? >> charles, i don't think you can get anymore unpleasant in 2022. charles: sadly. >> unfortunately 2023 could be
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uniquely challenging too. we're staring down two roads, persistently high rate environment without a recession or a possible recession. if we see recession we could see new lows in the market. but if we avoid that recession which would be the best-case scenario we could be stuck in a market really in purgatory. not making a new low but not necessarily making new highs with inflation. charles: with that in mind, i know you're suggesting that investors lower their expectations and broaden their horizons. how does that look in portfolio managerment? >> we're being realistic people, we're reminding customers there is always, there are always opportunities if you're willing to look. so if they want to tile back into risk, tell them do it selectively. think about quality. a high rate environment is still really tough operating environment for companies. we did say broaden your who
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horizons. we don't talk about global stocks enough. this quarter is test at thatment how off step the global economy is with the rest of the u.s. economy. we think that could be a opportunity especially for u.s. investors stair down recession. we could mitigate losses if we see recession come upon the u.s. economy. global stocks in the u.s. are outperforming stocks in 2009 right now. we could see the trend come into place. >> long overdue, speaking of global in the world, etoro sponsored a global survey. 25,000 investors. 13 countries. what i love about this, good ol' usa came out number one with starting investing or investing more. we edged out romania. this to me is really great news. you know what? i really like it because there's this major push always to get individual investors give up with the notion they can do it themselves. they can control their own destiny. when you do a survey like this, follow it up with your customers.
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is that still out there? is there still a sense hey, i can do this, i want a greater involvement in my financial future? >> yeah, definitely, charles. in fact we've seen investors become more active, not step away from market this is past year, which is really encouraging storyline. as we talked about, that has been a really rough year. that speaks to two things. it speaks to the fact consumers are still doing quite well. the job market has not been hit hard yet. you tend to invest more when you have money to invest but at the same time investors are learning more about markets. they're becoming more engaged with markets. talking about money is not a taboo thing anymore. we think we're seeing that lift in terms of retail investor engagement. those would-be investors who have not quite stepped into the markets, getting curious about it. charles: i got to tell you, i love your work, the tweets you put out, keeping people informed is so important, callie, thank you very much. >> thanks for having me. charles: coming up, folks,
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congress unveiling a $1.7 trillion investment plan, to revamp the pandemic response and change medicaid policy. i can't wait for steve moore to break that down. first stocks up this week, living up to the seasonality thing. still many are saying don't take the bait because of janiceerry. i tell you who i want to hear from? ryan dietrick. we're lucky. he is next. ♪. i'd like to thank our sponsor liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. contestants ready? go! only pay for what you need. jingle: liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.
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charles: silver bells and shelvier linings, with me carson group chief market shatter gift, ryan dietrick. ryan, against conventional wisdom so far this week living up to seasonality, maybe we get the santa claus rally, hey some people warn don't take the bait, it will be janiceerry. one of the tables you posted recently. golly, my man, you're such a great market historian. your own cue. 20th we were down slightly some of the inindustries. up every day going into the rest of the year, uncanny why this
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kind of stuff seems to work over and over again. can you explain it? >> yeah, charles, thanks for having me back. you're right, bottom line is santa claus rally we talk about all month. historically, charles, first last five days of the year are first two days of next year. the chart shows it is best. simple as not a lot of news, not a lot of volume. get the upward bias. look where we are right now. oversold, negativity. color of your suit. love that suit. santa class might be coming to town. no doubt we'll get a santa class rally once again this year. charles: one thing has people really nervous or anxious, the carson group released that great report on an nation. we know it is coming down. there is the june peak, we know it is coming down but this ryan, people are concerned about, still pretty high, almost near 8%. so is it going to come down fast enough to push the fed away?
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because the fed continues to say, hey, this is not enough. every time they try to nudge it down themselves we know that hurts the stock market. >> you're right. i mean a week ago on tuesday had the better cpi data. we popped up. know know what the fed said when it opened its mouth, higher than longer. rents are 40% of cpi. rents are coming down significantly, apartment lists or zillow. that doesn't make its way to government data for six to 12 months. don't ask me why. i'm reporting. tailwinds once we get to government data. used cars. supply chainses. nike said supply chains are improving. all these things together, one, two more positive cpi prints will let the fed take its food off the pedal. that could be a positive next year. charles: what is interesting, it would be great for the fed to take a victory lap. but right now powell is so focused on his place next to
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volcker. history teaches us something always unaccounted for. there is always a surprise out there. you know history of the market better than anybody else what surprise in 2023 nobody talking about? >> i tell you, charles, something good happens. i used to work with callie. big fan of callie. everybody saying same thing first half of next year will be terrible. that is what i key hearing. when everybody thinking alike somebody isn't thinking said general patton. first first quarter is best out of entire four year cycle. i looked before on air, higher 17 times since end of the world war ii. the surprise maybe we get a good bounce first half of the year because literally no one is talking about. charles: ryan, way too optimistic, greats for twitter hate. a lot of love on this show. merry christmas. talk to you again soon. >> see you charles. charles: grab a pen and pad. we'll go to fundamental school.
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this is what you need to know if you want to be a successful investor. none better than phil blancato focused on nike eearnings. first we talk about spending shenanigans on capitol hill. we have steve moore to sound off. 4150 page omnibus bill. did anyone read it? did they bring out a calculator? can anyone calculate this stuff? that's next. ♪.
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charles: folks a sweeping 1.7 trillion dollar spending bill expected to be on biden's disk at end of the week. what is in it?
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most members don't know. it is 4150 pages long. funding every federal agency, roughly allocates 45 billion additional aid for ukraine. joining me now, freedom works senior economic contributor steve moore. steve, moments ago, president biden meeting with ukraine's zelenskyy. there is lot of support for ukraine by the american people but a lot of folks are concerned that the new tally, more than $100 billion, there is very little accountability. we just don't know exactly how the money is being used. >> yeah, you know what happened, charles? is that the democrats are very sly. basically said the republicans we're not giving anymore money -- unless you give us hundreds of billions of dollars for social programs even with a trillion dollar deficit. they both bidded up size of budget. i've been on your show blaming people like nancy pelosi and chuck schumer for this spending blowout we've seen in recent
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years, this one is bipartisan. democrats wanted more social spending, republicans wanted more military spending. we got both and the american people are the big loser. charles: i don't get why the republicans would go through this because in several days they take control of the house which gives them leverage. what is the urgency to say okay now? >> you will have to get mitch mcconnell on your show to ask him that question. that is the question everybody is asking, charles. i got to tell you, among my members of our group people are so angry at the republicans for what they think is a real betrayal. i mean, look, republicans were elected to take over the house to slash spending. we have to take a chainsaw to the budget after the $4 trillion that were spent by biden above the baseline. now you have republicans coming in the first thing that they do is to do a major, business as usual. they have added earmarks. by the way you're so right about
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this, charles, you know, 4100 pages with hundreds of other pages of a pennages to that bill. no one in congress read it. i worked on capitol hill. just back bench congressional staffers write bills. know one knows what is in it. no one knows -- this is quite an outrage. charles: steve, i don't know if we can hear you, you're still there. i can't see you anymore. we lost steve. it is interesting, because he is talking about all the pages on page 753 there is a part in there where dhs getting 1.$9 billion for border management but explicitly prohibited for using it for border security. by the way $45 billion ukraine is getting is ostensibly to protect their borders. you cannot make this up. same people that say hey take the tally over $100 billion so ukraine can protect their borders because every sovereign nation should have the right to do that, they're our friends we
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don't have the same right in this country. i think it is really, really nuts. listen, it is what it is, we have to figure out something at some point. we keep sending people to congress, out for the military industrial complex, whoever contributes to their campaigns not for the american public. this smacks everyone in the nation. we hope get steve moore back to discuss even more. can see market check real quick. we're up a little bit since the show began. looking really great. the s&p up really noisily. big gains across the board. what we really want to see breaking right now we have president biden and ukrainian president zelenskyy holding the bilateral meeting in the oval office. let's take a listen. president biden: [inaudible] everyone is in. [inaudible conversations] president biden: well,
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mr. president, it is good to have you back. delighted you're able to make the trip to be here and you know it is an honor to be by your side in united defense against what is a brutal, brutal war being waged by putin. 300 days, hard to believe, 300 days been going through this, putin waged a brutal assault on the ukraine's right to exist as a nation and the attack on innocent ukrainian people, for no reason other than to intimidate. he escalated his assault on civilians after being -- going after schools, orphanages hospitals, landmarks, it is just -- he is trying to use winter as a weapon, and but ukrainian people continue to inspire the world. i mean that sincerely. not just inspire us, but inspire the world with their courage and how they have chose resilience
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and resolve for their future and the american people, stood proudly with them. democrats and republicans together with our allies in europe and japan and other places, to make sure you have the financial, humanitarian and security assistance that is needed. we'll talk about that today and we're going to continue to strengthen ukraine's ability to defend itself, particularly air defense and that's why we're going to be providing ukraine with patriot missile battery and training your forces to be able to accurately use it. together with our partners we're also going to continue to impose costs on the kremlin and we'll support ukraine pursuing a just peace. president zelenskyy, the united states stands with the great people of ukraine, we stand with you, you've been a great leader. by the way we have famous thing occurs once a year.
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"time" magazine, you're the man of the year in the united states of america. so welcome. a lot to talk about, the floor is yours, sir. >> thank you so much. mr. president, great honor for me to be here. your journalists thank you for invitation. i really wanted to come earlier, mr. president knows about but i couldn't do it because the situation was so difficult. if i come, i came in that we control the situation and because of support, first of all because of your support and i really, i understand that we have very important things to talk about and we'll discuss them, everything, so many challenges in ukraine, in europe, in the world. and from energy to, situation on the battlefield but i first of all i really, all my appreciations from my heart, from the heart of ukrainians,
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all ukrainians, from our nations, strong nations, all appreciation to you, first of all, mr. president, for your big support and leadership across europe. members of congress helped us and are helping now because the war is not over. anyway, but, that is your leadership. thankthank you, first of all. president. president biden: thank you. >> thank you so much mr. president. thanks for bipartisan support and thanks to congress and from our, from just ordinary people to your ordinary people, americans, i really appreciate. i think it is very difficult to understand what does it mean when we say appreciate but you really have to feel it and thank you so much.
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great honor to be here. and yesterday i was on the bus in bakhmut, east of our country, you know all the details. we had so many phone calls and details about it and i want to give you something. one guy really, really a hero, a captain and he asked me to pass his award. he asked me to pass his award to president biden. you will understand, he is captain of a battery, yes, he is very brave and he said, give it to very brave president. i want to give you. that and the cross, the cross for military merit. that is one. president biden: god love you. >> that is from him and i have the list, hero list.
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i didn't read, mr. president. it is, it is ukrainian language here is that translation. president biden: thank you. do i have his name i can contact him? >> yes, yes. pavlov. president biden: undeserved but much appreciated. thank you. >> thank you. thank you. he said to many, his brothers. this system saved. thank you very much. president biden: we have a tradition here. i will give it to him. my son in who rack, they have what they call a command coin, you seen coins on the battlefield? >> yes. president biden: i make sure he gets one of those. >> i will give. thank you so much. president biden: appreciate it. great honor. great honor. thank you, press. appreciate it. [reporters shouting questions]
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>> head out. head out, everybody. [reporters shouting questions] >> president biden and president zelenskyy of ukraine exchanging pleasantries. it is official. ukraine will receive patriot missile system and training that goes along with it. meanwhile back to the markets, i've been putting a spotlight on companies that refuse to adjust to the circle of hell theme we used. right? they're learning to be name before. you have to learn how to identify them. fundamental school is next. sam bankman-fried trying to make his way back to the united states. why the entire system needs to be shaken up upon his arrival. don't let congress and the media hijack this for their own
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purposes. they will if we let them. we'll be right ♪. zero-commission trades for online u.s. stocks and etfs. and a commitment to get you the best price on every trade, which saved investors over $1.5 billion last year. that's decision tech. only from fidelity.
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charles: so back to the theme, right, these nine circles of hell. one thing about them they get more uncomfortable each level you go down means you have to adjust the ability to adjust companies are being rewarded to adjust for the current environment. let's go to fundamental school, the hades edition. phil blancato. this is what people heard. they beat on earnings per share by 21 cents, we hear that all the time, right and stocks still go down. we want to go into this. look at the income statement.
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for me you got revenues are up 17%, but their costs, they are cute, demand creation expense, up only 8%. over head expense up 10%. this is a lot less than that. they're adjusting to their environment and seems like they were rewarded for it. >> because of ebitda. what we really care how much did they make. charles: right. >> if you look at the end how much company earned after expense, this is demand story. killed on ebitda. 10% margin is incredible especially a time we expect contraction not expansion. they pushed debt out very far, low cost of financing. two, they have brilliant on inventory. they have demand story. apparel companies they have the by far the biggest demand. demand on inventory, one on sales. that is incredible. charles: they always found a way to engineer the bottom line, balance sheet. doesn't get enough press. recently it has. you mentioned inventories up 43%. usually that is sort of around eye popper.
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but we have account receivables are up more. i should note prior quarter was actually higher. maybe we hit peak inventories. maybe the street likes that. >> the misses have been folks who didn't manage inventory well. they didn't overspend on inventory. they have enough cash on balance sheet to maintain operating margins. charles: cash is down a lot. >> that is what you want, right? we want scenario you're not everyindulging cash, finance low, not overburden cash but matched inventory. sales match inventory. that is how you win. this goes back to p-e ratios. price of company versus how much this he earned you show me, up 15, 16% today because of earnings earnings versus price they jumped margins. charles: fedex, you look at the initial numbers, i thought they were would be hammered. this caught everyone's eye.
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$3.7 billion. so they're going to do what they have to do. it screams they will be getting rid of people. they had some mismanagement. they're right in the line of sight when it comes to supply chain, wage spiral. they had the brunt of all that. >> they're at tip of the spear. inflation hurts them. supply demand dynamics hurt them. to the credit of the management team, the company will take out 25% of costs from bottom line ultimately that will impact the growth rate this is different narrative. this is not about p-e ratios. forecast demand what fedex does for a living, institutional and retail delivery. what they did recognized inflationary scare, hold in costs rewarded next 12 months. i am right, consumer hangs on, maybe this is the best spending season in history. first-quarter earnings numbers will blow out and do well in the stock. charles: you're very well-read. the theme today has been dante, the nine circles of hell. what circle are we in? >> number seven.
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charles: number seven. >> volatile stage, violence, think about the violence of market what is we experienced in the last six months alone. dichotomy of fedex or even a nike, how wild the market has been. look at the bond market. moves we haven't seen in our lifetime. that is purely violence. all the things that happened next. fraud, what is happening in the crypto phase. all the fraudulent mismanaged firms die out. spaces that will go to zero. winners and losers in the next phase. what comes after that? the end of this. we're closer to the end at the beginning. get's darkest before dawn. that is where we are. charles: throw the financial system on the fraud side even though they do it legally. phil, you're the bet. going after the entire crypto market under the guise of going after sam bankman-fried. naomi block well, was a believer before 99% of the folks. she will tell you what she thinks next.
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charles: all right, so the sam bankman-fried extradition watch continues as lawmakers in washington, d.c., are licking their chops to destroy crypto. listen, i said from day one this story is a story about the system. you just heard phil talk about fraud. it is not fraud on crypto. it is fraud of a system designed to take money from you, right?
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they foist overvalued investments on individual investors. due diligence is less important than hype. building sort of sky-high private valuations knowing they will cash out going public with the action. crypto will be put in, will be put on trial we know that by lawmakers, people trying to protect the fiat currency system and their elite money-making machine. we have mb tv tech analyst, naomi brockwell. give you props, you came to me, decade longer, bitcoin, walking by my office, bitcoin. less than a grand. you knew by then. contrast the lawmakers approach to sbf, even before it hit the fan. it was harsh against crypto, friendly toward him. i feel like the fix is in. what are you sensing? >> oh, my goodness, the corruption in this case is so egregious, it is evident right now look how politicians,
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mainstream media is responding to all of this. all the puff pieces we've seen about a person who defrauded people of billions of dollars. there is that old saying come to mind, never let a good crisis go to waste. that is exactly what we're seeing here. you said it correctly at the start of show, they're licking their chops at the idea of putting cryptocurrency on the stand and taking it down. this is opportunism. this is nothing more than that they are looking at this crisis, saying okay, how can we use this for our own benefits and use to it reign in crypto. senator elizabeth warren came out with this bill, let me reiterate, there is nothing in this bill would do anything to stop the next ftx meltdown. this bill is financial surveillance. taking control from the individual. putting it back in the hands politicians. crypto came around as an alternative to the existing corrupt financial system. these politicians are saying
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let's shoehorn it back in there. we don't want people to have alternative. need code does to have licenses. not allow online transactions to have privacy the same way cash transactions. we can't have that in the digital realm. it is an absolute nightmare, charles. charles: naomi, one of the debates not all crypto is the same. some may be securities. some may be commodities. i know there was a bill wants to get some of this under the auspice of the cftc many think they're very light when it comes to enforcement. what is your thoughts? >> they're definitely different, different tools in the crypto space and one thing the politicians do is try to paint them all with the same brush, well say everything that is a cryptocurrency looking thing is going to be a security. then you have the sec and gary gensler basically going on a crusade to put everything under his jurisdiction, destroying incredibly innovative tools out there. we have the verdict from the
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library versus sec take. decentralized, a tool you have tokens that allow you to put videos in decentralized network. sec come along said, well that is a securities contract. i'm sorry as someone who got involved with library in 2017 before i knew these things supposedly had monetary value, it is crazy to me to think that the sec thinks people are getting involved with these accounts as like some sort of a financial contract? charles: right. >> these are tools. these are actually utility tools that are enabling people to access a decentralized world. politicians just aren't getting it. they're trying to keep it all under their control. charles: either they're not getting it but they get it. they and their backers are really afraid. come this far. they didn't see this happening naomi. maybe this is the last chance to nip it in the bud. you're so fantastic. thank you so much, my friend. >> thanks so much, charles. charles: folks we'll be right
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charles: all right, folks, quick check on these markets all your major indices are higher for today. maybe ryan dietrich is on to something. by the way we need bond yields to come down. so far they are cooperating today, and one of the themes today is demand. crude oil creeping higher keeping an eye on that. all i can say, liz, at least for today there is a santa claus liz: i know. although, i'm not quite ready to slap the santa claus rally sticker on it, charles. charles: okay. liz: not yet. we need to see a little bit more umph, but the reindeer kind of look like


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