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tv   Making Money With Charles Payne  FOX Business  December 27, 2022 2:00pm-3:01pm EST

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edward: markets well off their highs right now. we managed to kill the rally that has been going on here. we're going to charles payne. i feel like when we go to charles payne, i usually come into something about the federal reserve when that's tracking. charles, maybe "the cp effect" can commodity here and fix this rally we turned around. charles, give you the, cheryl is in now.
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new york fed chairman compared to tackling inflation compared to peeling an onion. charles: inflation smells. we're not at 7.%. thank you, charles. cheryl: i'm cheryl casone in for charles payne. with the s&p 500 down and the dow up slightly. meanwhile megacaps, apple, tesla, hitting 52 lows. nancy tengler, shah gilani david nelson what you should know for the end of the year. top analyst mark mahaney is here with top tech bargains.
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the once red hot housing market turning ice cold. what is the latest indicator what is ahead? we'll get into with katrina campins of "mansion global." the power of the consumer. americans slaying the inflation grinch. retail theft is also on the rise. that and more on making money. ♪. cheryl: well our markets today mostly down as investors are deliberating if we're going to see that santa claus rally before the year is up. today is the last week of trading 25002. joining me is nancy tengler around money map chief strategist, shah gilani. nance, i will start with you. what do you make of the markets are doing? we're looking for the last minute santa claus rally. unless we get a piece of really
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good news doesn't look like that is going to happen. >> cheryl, thanks so much for having me. good to see you. i think the market is doing what markets do in general. it is receipted acting in the near term to headlines that driven by the algorithms, reading headlines, creating volatility around hedge funds taking advantage of all the while. i feel like this period is analogous to the end of the bear market in 2018-2009. i don't think you want to go jump in when both feet. this is time to look selectively in names that outperform in a slowing growing environment. i think we see recession next year. that is one of the things the market is worried about. it doesn't necessarily have to be a deep recession. this is not the 1980s. i think we're really well-poised for the second half of the year, maybe the second quarter, for a good period for stocks once
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again. cheryl: shah, if you look at the market action, obviously concerns for next year a possible recession, double recession, and we're also obviously concerned about fed interest rate hikes. we're a little over month away from another meeting of the fed. if you look at that ahead of you, you have to ask yourself what does the year look like? maybe once the fed does the destruction it is going to do, maybe we hit that by the summer. maybe that is when the markets start to turn around a little bit? >> i think that is what a lot of investors are hoping for, cheryl, we see bottoming in the market, maybe by the summer, perhaps earlier than that maybe the second hatch of the year starts to look better with inflation abating somewhat. i think that's the hope. i don't necessarily see that happening. i think the market will likely see lower lows based on some big tech names hitting lower lows and making 52 lows. the big leadership group is so weak right now and i don't think there is another financials
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tried to lead briefly, energy took off but investors see before we take off we'll see lower lows across the board. cheryl: tesla hit a new 52-week low. is that a a buy for you. >> we've been doing interesting work on this stock. we're search forge a catalyst. we're close to pulling the tricker to buy it this company has earnings, let's not forget. trading at a multiple consistent with proctor & gamble for example. free cash flow is robust. the operating margins are double the operating margins of gm he have and 16 times ford's operating margin. cash on the balance sheet is very strong, 34, 35 billion. about 15 billion in debt.
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hard to tell what is driving the stock down. it could be forced selling by elon musk of course the shorts but we'll let it settle at this level. this is really interesting point. we owned this when musk was doing podcasts with joe rogan and sleeping on factory floor. we took a double and sold it because it looked risky then. you sleep on elon musk at your own peril. cheryl: i said that many times in particular whether tesla, twitter, spacex. his methods made be madness or look to be madness but he is still a genius. the other thing we have, shah, is washington. you have this $1.7 trillion omnibus bill t passed the house and the senate. how do you think will impact the fed's decisions moving forward? we discussed on many shows on fox business the stimulus spending by washington has been one of the biggest factors in high inflation?
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>> more spending equates to higher interest rates. i think the fed will look at this spending bill, the size of it, figure this is going to add to inflation. i think that means higher rates for longer. the last thing that the fed really wants to see is spending, especially wasteful spending we know there will be a lot of wasteful spending. i certainly don't think congress is done. i think they come up with more spending ills especially with more recession. they will come out of the woodwork around that will extend how long the fed will keep rates higher. i think they dropped a 25 basis-point hike somewhere, not this meeting but perhaps the next meeting, wait for maybe the lag they talked about for the economy to catch up to their hikes but i don't think they can now with the spending going through the roof, pull back. i think we'll see higher rates for longer. that is going to weigh heavily on earnings. it will weigh heavily on the market. >> nancy, final word? >> well i think you just sort of remember that inflation peaked
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in june. while i agree with shah i think this bill is a nightmare it tends to move sim met i cannily on the upside and the downside. it took 1months for -- h 16 months for us to hit peak inflation. it is not linear. a weaker dollar will be a tailwind to earnings at least for the fourth quarter of this year. i think there are things to cheer. you just want to be careful and pick your spots. you don't buy the s&p index in this environment. you pig names with great management teams and ability to perform and dividend growth. cheryl: that is great advice we're fairing in 2023. it will not likely be a great story. you look for companies hitting them out of the park and probably a lot of them out there that are undervalued right now. >> yes. cheryl: nancy, shah, great to you both here. thank you for your time. >> thank you, cheryl. cheryl: bring in ever core
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internet research head mark mahaney. always good to talk to you. one of the sectors under pressure, are technology stocks. we were talking a moment ago looking for those names out there. if there is opportunities in technology, you know, what would they be? is, are we going to see a rebound in that sector? >> well i think we'll see a rebound in the highest quality names the but going into this next year in an environment where we think demand trends with kill continue to softer in sectors we look at, retail, online, cloud computing, travel, that will softer in next year. you want companies cycles that are defensive. i don't cover defensive stocks. i cover tech. less prone to more consumer discretionary spend that leads me to netflix and leads me to
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uber. those are my two favorite ideas of into next year. people with value name, there is heck of a lot of value in meta, formerly known as facebook. those are the thee i would single out. cheryl: that is interesting. we had a guest on with "mornings with maria," talking about apple, that is a tech stock you see a meaningful up move on apple, that to him is a hint of the technology sector in general. is that too easy of a reference in your mind or something credence to? >> i'm sure there is credence to that. all of these stocks, these went from being pure secular growers to now being secular cyclical and and all the companies that think they aren't cyclical, that think they aren't impacted by the economy they're getting impacted by the economy. even mighty cloud computing microsoft azure, aws, are seeing softening 6 demand.
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our guess is sees into 2023. hopefully it stable lies in the mid of 23. if the costs are taken out you get a nice chance of growth returning. we need to ask ourselves one basic question, is it structural or cyclical? is it something structural, something dramatically changed competitionwise or something changed the cost structure to the negative that you want to be aware of, that is purely cyclical, amazon is a great example if you're a long term investor i like amazon right here. i have feeling amazon's fundamentals and stock price weaken first. i think it is all cyclical. ip don't see any evidence they're losing research and cloud computing. i want to wait before i get super aggressive on it. cheryl: you want to see what the action is in the first of the year, maybe not make any moves between now and new year's. that certainly makes sense. what about semiconductors? we've got the big push in this
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country from washington for more semiconductor plants opening. taiwan semiconductor is off the top of my head. that one is in arizona. is that pa good thing for the sector? it is good for manufacturing in this country but is that kind of a sector play you would take? >> well i don't formally cover the semiconductor plays. yes i think it is good for this country and i think we'll have a dramatic change in supply shapes which unfurther natalie i think will be structurally inflation airy for the next several years. we'll all have to deal with that. cheryl, your prior statement, there names i pick out right here, right now. they have to special, be very tactical about it. they have to have a new revenue stream or be relatively recession resistant. hey that is netflix. get this, cheryl, $6.99, you can sign up for netflix. that is less of a cost of a latte grand day or it is comparable with it. it is really cheap for access to
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all the netflix content. they have new stream called advertising supported video-on-demand. so i find netflix super interesting here. this is the first year you could ever buy netflix on a gaap p-e basis. i like netflix going into next year. i think it will be more recession resistant. they have a new revenue stream. that is top of my wish-list. cheryl: gotcha. eu taking aim at apple and google. this new regulation is in 2024. this eliminates their dominance. every year i feel like this is a new piece of the eu going after another technology company. that seems to be their favorite target for whatever reason? >> it seems to be. seems like they're legislating themselves into technology rather than innovating their way into technology but that is too quick of, too cheap after shot. there is regulatory risk in the u.s. i just, as, i covered these names for a long time. absolutely if you're working in
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the doj or european equivalent to that you should look at these massive companies. that is how you should be earning your paycheck but i think we want to be careful. i think these are ininherrently competitive industries. if the u.s. wantings to take on facebook for monopolistic reasons they haven't heard of tiktok. these industries breed a lot of tomtics in of open thistles. quach them. be careful about overregulating what have been most dynamic part of u.s. economy. they generate a lot of jobs. i think they will continue to do that. cheryl: mark mahaney always great to talk to you. a fascinating space. we'll see what happens in the new year. >> happy new year. cheryl: you too. consumers feel the holiday spirit as sales continue to rise despite heavy inflation. cruives tin bents -- kristen bentz breaking it down. we have real estate with
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"mansion global" host katrina campins. she is coming up next. it's nice to unwind after a long week of telling people how liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need! (limu squawks) he's a natural. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ get powered by innovation refunds can help your business get a payroll tax refund, even if you got ppp and it only takes eight minutes to qualify. i went on their website, uploaded everything, and i was blown away by what they could do. has helped businesses get over a billion dollars and we can help your business too. qualify your business for a big refund in eight minutes. go to to get started. powered by innovation refunds.
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cheryl: new housing data show prices in the u.s. fell .8% in the month of october, the reading coming below market expectations. joining me fox news contributor, "mansion global" host christina campins. >> nice to see. >> just back together. all right. what did you make of the data today? >> you know what is interesting, high inflation, high mortgage rates and increase of construction costs of over 30% made it very difficult for homebuilders to deliver affordable product to homebuyers. that is not a surprise, right? we have existing homes. many sellers are not incentivized to put house on the market because they have a great rate locked. you will not trade up for a higher rate. a lot of people will see what 2023 happens. a lot depends on what the fed does. what will save us, the silver lining, is index is falling a
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smaller amount each time but very low supply. we have 1.5 units nationwide. our months supply is 3.3 currently. a healthy market is six months supply that will help us from a quote, up quote crash of any kind i think you agree. cheryl: everybody tells me what happens in 2023. it is the same question. you are right about supply, it is steady in the 6.25 range, which it great. we think we get another fed rate hike the end of january and more after that. the 30 year i wonder where that point is going to be? do you have any sense of that at all? >> i think 2023 we'll still be in tough times. i think the recovery will come in 2024. i have to say another interesting story i think what's happening with homebuilders selling to wall street. you know that is something very concerning to me. cheryl: yeah. >> they're stripping people of the american dream. people have really attained most
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of their wealth nowadays by homeownership. you and i are very passionate. cheryl: buying a home. >> various different reasons. now many of these homebuilders are selling because during the pandemic they started to build. they have a lot in the pipeline the mortgage rates went up. it expensive for homebuyers. what are they doing? selling to wall street. essentially stripping americans of the american dream. they are turning them into rentals. you say people will rent because interest rates are high but you strip people away from the homeownership. cheryl: we want to find a wonderful home in a perfect home. "mansion global" you have another episode tomorrow night, fox business, 8:00 p.m. tell me what is on? >> what i love about "mansion global." i've been doing real estate for 22 years now. primarily in florida. i get to visit all the places that have attained a great amount of appreciation after the pandemic, montana, jackson hole
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you're familiar with, ten see, texas. we're focusing people now is priority is quality of life. miami, tampa, i'm biased, i am biased but miami tampa, experienced most amount of appreciation. that is why we focus so much on those areas on "mansion global." cheryl: no has been an incredible market. if you look at case-shiller, the break down, who are cities you see, you see miami, you see tampa, you see phoenix, you see las vegas. i think my question mark in 2023 you see that change. if your assertion is correct people are locked into homes at a low interest rate, does it benefit them to sell? does that mean we have a stuck market a stuck real estate market is frustrating if you're a buyer. you have a lot of those clients in south florida telling you the same thing. they're looking for north florida. forget south florida. >> miami is frustrated.
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i hadding wars after the pandemic. it is so exhausting. people say as real estate professional you must love that. no it is challenging time. you are losing bids. now there are not a lot of homes to choose from. you're kind in this weird time for homeownership. it is really interesting time. cheryl: again we will see where the wind goes in 2023. katrina, obviously "mansion global" is every wednesday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern time right here on fox business prime. do not miss my show right after katrina's show. my "american dream home," every wednesday knight 9:00 p.m. beach country and gorgeous stuff. >> good to see you,. cheryl: likewise. safe travels as well. coming up the irs delaying plans to lower the threshold for payments made through programs like venmo and zelle because of
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backlash. kristin bentz will join me next. ♪. ♪ [acoustic soul music throughout] ♪ ♪ [acoustic soul music throughout] ♪ ♪ [acoustic soul music throughout] ♪
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cheryl: shoplifting costing retailers big bucks. lydia hu has got details. hey there, lydia. >> reporter: hey, smaller. that's right. it is nearly a 100 billion-dollar problem for the industry and this growing issue of rampant shoplifting means everyday products are kept under lock and key. you got to see this. a manhattan walgreens resorted to locking up candy, ice cream, even coffee creamer. the company spokesperson told fox business retail crime is one of the top challenges facing the industry today. and there is also a major
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grocery store chain that says some products, they are targeted for high price point and value on the black market. steaks, energy drinks, detergent, are also frequently targeted at these grocery stores. according to the national retail federation losses in inventory amount to 1.4% of retail sal you in 2021. that is 94 1/2 billion dollars. recent surveys say covid has worsened the risk of crime, partly because labor shortages have made it difficult to fully staff stores. others blame soft-on-crime policies. in fact, grand theft lars sy, items valued more than 1000, up 20% in new york city over last. theft of items under a thousand up nearly 34% in the big apple. now the problem, it is affecting the bottom line. target ceo says profit losses could reach $600 million by the end of its fiscal year.
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walmart's ceo said stores could be forced to close if the rise in shoplifting isn't curtailed. walgreens said earlier this year it is losing 50% more money than it did prior to the pandemic. cheryl, what this means for us? possibly higher prices at checkout and even fewer places to shop. cheryl: especially in cities where they are seeing a duane reade or walgreens closing down because they can't feasibly stay in business in those areas. it is very true. lydia hu, great report. thank you so much. >> thank you. cheryl: consumer spending over the holiday was not not stopped by the grinch. holiday sales jumping 7.6% despite added pressure of inflation. kristen bentz is with me now. let's talk about this because we were looking at these numbers, you're thinking okay, wait, spending is strong, retail sales numbers is strong but consumers are paying higher prices. where is the differential in that? >> well the differential is kind of a tale of two markets, right
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or a tale of two consumers. you have the low-end consumer. they're hitting dollar stores and the shares of those companies are rocking right now, right? and then on the luxury end, luxury high-end they're doing well too like louis vuitton, restoration hardware, things of that nature, right? but the middle class is really getting crashed and so what you're see being is a very promotional black friday and christmas holiday, more promotional than i have ever seen. cheryl: you say the market for the consumer bifurcated. what do you mean by that? >> basically kind of like a barbell shape economy for the consumer, right? very big spending on the low end for discount stores and dollar stores around very big spending on the high-end for luxury retailers. anyone kind of caught in the middle, that middle class consumer is struggling, having a rough time. you see that play out in time when we see the stocks reporting holiday numbers. cheryl: that is interesting,
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walmart reported earnings this past quarter. we said they were seeing stronger consumer dollar spent in the grocery section of the store. that was higher end consumers. consumers trading down to walmart for groceries and getting generic names. i have thought that was fascinating. we have macy's telling us they're seeing the saks fifth avenue buyer is now shifting down to macy's but is that a good thing for these retail names? >> well it just depends on the retailer, right? the thing that is interesting for walmart, right, families trading down to grocery were making $100,000 or more. what does that tell but the economy, right? a lot of us out there are bracing for a recession that may already be here. cheryl: look, when margerine is 49% higher than it was a year ago, eggs, everything else, you will go for the bargains. talk about retail trends in general. we're starting to look into 2023 to kind of find where maybe to invest our money.
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what are you telling people? >> so i think private aviation, switching fierce from walmart and going private jets, cheryl. cheryl: retail sector? [laughter] >> for a lot of people it is. looking what happened with holiday travel, sometimes flying a private jet will actually get you there. with business being the way it is now. you might do the first few meetings via zoom. eventually you have to meet face-to-face. you need to get the ceo there on time. i've seen big opportunities, know up, wheels up is a company that is publicly-traded you can actually invest in as opposed to berkshire hathaway which has private jets as well. this is just a name for you out there. also i'm seeing you know, a lot of opportunities in resale and thrifting, especially going into recession. thread up, anything where you can upcycle clothes or buy them online and see things like that, that is also a huge opportunity. cheryl: thought about the real
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real bags. >> exactly. every one wants a handbag, luxury handbags are on fire but why do you want to pay retail speaking from experience. i don't know, maybe plea too. cheryl: kristen bentz, always great to talk to you. thank you so much. good to see you. >> good to see you too, thank you. cheryl: we have a lot more coming up, everybody. we'll get some key market takeaways what we can expect in 2023. that is the big question for investors next year. plus the irs delaying their gig tax filing rule for side hustles of more than $600. we're going to break that down with gerri willis and steve moore. that is coming up next. ♪. you ok, man? the internet is telling me a million different ways i should be trading. look! what's up my trade dogs?
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♪ cheryl: well the irs ask delaying i implementation of reporting payments threshold through products like venmo and zelle. this is after backlash from lawmakers and reporting here on fox business. gerri willis has the details. what is the irs saying about the delay? >> reporter: cheryl, that is right. we've been on the story over a year. they're saying oops, everybody is confused. we'll pull back for a year. taxpayers greeting with relief a decision by the irs to delay one year requirements e-commerce platforms, zelle, venmo, ebay report sales of 600 bucks by users. 40 to 50 million workers some in the gig on economy, part-timers are hit hard by the rule. kidsn retail platform for kids clothing saying it should be abandoned all together. listen. >> over5% of our sales in 2022
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were sellers over the $600 threshold this impacts a large portion of our community. mostly parents simply selling clothes and other essentials their kids out grown. >> reporter: congress passed 600-dollar threshold for 1099 threshold. before that they reported 20,000 bucks or more than 200 transactions. the change will bring in 8 billion in income next 10 years. according to joint committee on taxation. the democrats said asureing tax compliance on businesses that underreport. they could wrongly hit payments apps for splitting cost of meals. the agency is struggling to clear a log of paper tax forms. audit by the inspector general,
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the agency had yet to process 9.6 million tax returns as of october 28. they said this, the irs will not meet all the goals by the end of 2022 will continue to have a backlog into the 2023 filing season. cheryl, i send it back to you, i just say this, the irony of this tax rule change, guess what, the dems wanted to hit people who were really rich. this hits people who don't have much money. cheryl: it really does. these people are, they lost make jobs during the pandemic and they switched to kind of the gig economy to get by. they have been, now this. so true. gerri willis, thank you for that report. appreciate it. >> reporter: you're welcome. >> freedom works economic contributor steve moore. you just heard from gerri, the irs is pushing back the gig tax filing rules for side hustles over 600. there is push back from lawmakers and do you think they
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will go through with this at some point? >> cheryl this is betrayal by democrats in congress and the irs because remember when that inflation acceleration act was being debated the whole idea, oh, we're not going after the little guy, you remember that, cheryl? we're not going after the little guy, we're going after millionaires and billionaires, bill gates and mark zuckerberg of the world. why are they going after 600-dollar transactions? that is sofa or rental payment. this is really the irs being able to violate your financial privacy as the irs gets to know all about you, all that you have and all that you buy and if you're a more of a libertarian like i am, you should be very nervous about that. i think democrats may back off this i can't tell you how much backlash i've already seen from this, cheryl. people are really outraged by this power thrust by the irs. cheryl: your group released a study how it pays not to work in biden's america.
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can you explain what that means? is that tied to what we're discussing? >> exactly. we looked at two major programs, unemployment benefits and medicaid expansion. what we found is that in three states, believe it or not, cheryl, that you can make over $100,000 a year two unemployed parents getting unemployment benefits and other programs. they can make 100,000. in over half the states you can make over 60,000. that is more for example, often times a construction worker makes or retail person makes or nurses aide. this is real, look, we paul believe in important safety, right? the idea that the government is going to pay people more for not working than working, cheryl that is not fair to people working a construction job or manufacturing job. they make less money than the person who is at home watching netflix on government taxpayer payments. >> we don't, omnibus bill passed, 1.7 trillion. how will the free money impact
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employment? again all this stimulus getting thrown out into the economy, how does it impact inflation? >> well, first of all you said the important word, that is work and employment. and what we need to do in the federal government encouraging people as much as possible to choose work over welfare. we're doing just the opposite, cheryl. they the obama administration, now the biden administration basically eviscerated almost all the work requirements for these programs that was passed under bill clinton to a democratic president. we have to get to the idea yes we'll help you, you have to be in the jock market, in training or having a job. inflation obviously the good news is, inflation is coming down, cheryl. i think we'll be down to about five to 6% inflation by the first month or two of 2023. cheryl: okay. >> but comes with the price of a real slowing economy. there is no question that the economy is slowing down big time right now. cheryl: construction, steve, we talked about it many times,
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steve moore, great to see you. >> thank you, cheryl. cheryl: all right. we've got a lot more coming up. christmas nightmare. southwest airlines still struggling to get passengers back home. we'll tell you what the airline is saying about it. it is coming up. first protecting your portfolio heading into the new year. ken mahoney, david nelson are here with their recommendations for 2023 that is coming up after this. ♪.
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so you get more of the speed you need for day and night streaming. more speed you need when you're work from homeing. and more speed you need as your family keeps growing. check in on your current speed through the xfinity app or upgrade to the speed that's right for you today. cheryl: markets are fighting for that santa claus rally to close out the year but will it come? one of my next guests says the santa rally is grinch pal and staying away with a 39 1/2 foot pole. ken mahoney and belpointe strategist david nelson. ken, those are your quotes why you're on the sideline. >> yes. two weeks ago to the day investors had visions of suggest sugarplums dancing in our head. why? closing inflation, 800 points up
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how excited we were, that angry grinch, alpha, jerome powell jackson hole, rate ofs are going higher, on and on. drumbeat of rates going higher scared nervous investors. instead of i don't see a santa claus rally. what i'm seeing more liquidations, more window-dressing, we don't own amazon, we don't own tesla we don't own these companies. no santa claus rally. today is testament as well. cheryl: we started the morning off, future pointed 200 plus points. here we are in red territory. to be fair, david, let's clarify here. it's a holiday week we do have low volume pupil trading. it is to be expected you will have volatility like this. david what are you telling people for investors as we head into the new year? because there is a lot of questions, a lot of nervousness out there but our investments.
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2022 was a tough year. are we going into another tough year? >> it was a pretty lousy year. nothing is going to save 2022. certainly not this week. i guess maybe one of the biggest messages that i can give to investors especially one coming in right now you don't have to be stock centric anymore. 60/40 is back. there are too many other asset classes that are attractive right now. you can't ignore treasurys when they start to approach 5%. you can't ignore high quality corporate bonds certainly higher than that even hard assets like gold with a falling dollar deserve a spot in your portfolio. there are plenty of things to buy out there. we tend to look backwards and what worked over the last 10 years. i can't tell you where rates will settle out but they will not be zero. with that my set. investors want food on the plate with earnings flow, cash flow, and dividend. cheryl: gotcha. tesla, a big stock, story stock right now hitting a new 52-week
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low. ken, that is today. do you still find that attractive here? does tesla have further to fall? we're at 112 and change a share. >> like catching a falling safe, cheryl. look we like to buy stocks making highs and making higher. stocks make lows make lower lows. tesla looked low at 180, 160. here we are. every time elon musk tweets about twitter, my back of the envelope numbers 10 billion-dollar market cap loss in tesla shareholder created a miss around twitter. he is the brand. i would not touch it. i like ses la hit higher next year but this is falling safe at the moment. cheryl: do you buy tech, david? >> i own big tech. i don't want to add to it. it is the problem part of my
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portfolio. there are attractive areas? areas like industrials. flue name is company like agco. similar company to john deere, a lot cheaper. 10 times forward earnings. free cash flow 8%. that is where you want to hide at we start off the year. i expect more rate hikes the first part of the year. that means recession in front of us. that means the bottom is in front of us. cheryl: that's he very, very tr. ken you want to look for that bottom. you want to hope by the summer maybe the markets start to recover. my belief is, always has been the markets are always a couple steps ahead here. where they go is the big question? >> rate, right. look, ultimately may, june, the analogy you give, market looking six to nine months. first few months next year, david alluded to it we'll deal with earnings recession. three at 220, 230 a share for s&p 500. we're around 200, sub200 with interest rates going higher, multiples contract.
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gives you 34, 3500 fair value s&p 500. market is elastic. markets go much higher than that or much lower than that. telling you wall street expectations for earnings will have to come down first quarter of next year. cheryl: there you go. ken, david, thanks for perspective. happy holidays. happy new year we hope. coming up travel chaos continues as southwest cancels another 2500 flights today. we're headed to atlanta's airport for a live report coming up. ♪. even if you got ppp and it only takes eight minutes to qualify. i went on their website, uploaded everything, and i was blown away by what they could do. has helped businesses get over a billion dollars and we can help your business too. qualify your business for a big refund in eight minutes. go to to get started.
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cheryl: holiday travelers struggling to make it back home as thousands of flights get canceled once again today. steve had, arri -- harrigan at hartsfield international airplane. how is it looking? reporter: this mountain of bags continues to grow and most are one or two days scold when they get sorted there's more downstairs they intend to bring up. 4,500 flights u.s. and intern national canceled today alone. most of those southwest airlines flights, 2,500 of them from southwest and people just come up to you when you're standing here. they're looking for their bags. some have medication, insulin in their bags and others have missed cruises. the frustration is really building and people aren't being told what to do next. how it's going to sort out how
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they get home. >> i tried to call, i tried to rebook online, i tried to rebook on my phone. couldn't get nothing from nobody. now i had to call and cancel with my work and tell them i don't know when i'll be back and it created a financial frustration for me because if i'm not working, i'm not getting paid. reporter: it's chaos and the anger has gotten the attention of the department of transportation saying southwest will be held accountable and president biden tweeting the same thing, the airlines will be held accountable but for the people stuck here, it's no help in the short term. back to you. cheryl: steve, this reminds me of what we saw in the summer with all the -- when london was shutting down and all the bags were stuck and now it's happening to us so it's unfortunate. steve harrigan, thank you for the live report. we appreciate it. take a look at markets, this is probably what you'll see the rest of the week as far as what
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you'll have with your markets and you have down numbers and dow now ticking up higher by 41, but this is the way we kind of roll. it's the last week of the year, this is the worst year for the markets since 2008 and low volume, a lot of traders and big money and investors made their positions for the year and this is happening and the quick stocks hitting new lows and watching storied stocks and high interest stocks and particularly when they're down the%. >> i'm calling santa and good to see you, cheryl. i'm kelly o grady in for liz claman while she deserve


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