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tv   Making Money With Charles Payne  FOX Business  December 30, 2022 2:00pm-3:00pm EST

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2022 and i want to take a moment to thank the crew and the producers working extremely hard and this week with me neil filling in -- filling in for neil and director dave following me through this today and natalie, tom, jenna, zack, kevin, cara, e he'll meal la, sophie -- amelia, cara, sofia and they'll get through the next creek. now we get to lauren simonetti. what's your resolution? lauren: i never make them
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because i can't keep them. what about you? edward: i'm going to run another marathon, i've done five. lauren: good afternoon, this is making money, the final edition. i'm lauren simonetti in for charles payne. the clock is ticking on the last trading day of 20226789 stocks wrapping up worst year since 2008 with even more losses and the dow is down 309 points. jim awad, rob lunas, scott and jim luna here for their best advice for the new year. hard to be optistic but we'll find a way. sam bankman-fried met with senior white house officials four times this year in the months leading up to the collapse of ftx. i'll ask natalie brunell and what does china's massive covid outbreak have to do with wall street? jim bianco makes the connection as of 2:30. the biden administration rolling
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out major tact credits for electric vehicles and the most that americans can even afford take tafanely deep breath, everybody. markets are falling today in a big way and a broad based selloff wrapping and you happen it's the worst trading year since 2008 and also the first down year for the dow, s&p 500 and for the nasdaq in four years. we were trying to push through this santa claus rally and saw a glimpse of it and the worst of the bunch and clear adviser senior managing director jim awod. jim, doesn't look too good and 2022 is toast at this point. how are you positioning yourself for this point in 2023? >> well, it's important to keep
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your eye on the big picture, which is that stocks are a lot cheaper than they were a year ago. you wanted tobias sets when they're on sale and not at the end of 2021 when everything was on a spike and then a long term basis as painful as it's been is including opportunity for those that can think out a year or two or three but the next three months will remain uncertain and how far the feds will go and impact on corporate profits will be. we should have a good feeling as to the answers of these questions over the next several months so what i will say is leg into high quality equities, i know they're underselling the attractiveness from enduring growth companies of the likes and we'll pick your name, do your research and they're are really on sale and leg in to quality stocks over the next couple of months and also two
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year corporate bonds at 5% and they're not a bad place to worry about lagging in and big picture is too late to be bearish and too early to be wildly bullish and it is appropriate to be reasonably bullish and to buy quality stocks, not the high fliers, but not the spacs or companies with no earnings that never should have been there but the companies with enduring earnings that are 25% cheaper. lauren: what about big tech names like meta. what a year they've had. also apple that's struggled this year. meta has individual issues and more knowledgeable about it than i am and apple, if there's one technology stock, apple and microsoft are probably not a lot of business issues and apple may
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have declines like this in the past. none of us can live without this device and they are if they have a slowing economy and declining inflation and some point interest rates peaking and coming down, that's not an unfavorable environment for quality definite. lauren: if you look at igx, the growth index this year, it's down 31% so it's cheap; right. so that's something to consider. >> yeah, that's exactly right. lauren: continue your thought, please.
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lauren kim forest, good to see you. there's a lot of major marketing news floating around. you say the real headline of the year has been the changing of the guard and i'm not sure i know what you mean by that. >> sure. well probably for the past ten years, if you'd have bought the top five stocks in the s&p 500, which sort of look like nasdaq; right because that was the fang stocks so that is facebook, amazon, apple, netflix and google, you would be a winner. you didn't need anything else. this year those got dumped hard and fast. there are many reasons but the main reason is most of those companies, maybe not most but the -- some of those companies
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didn't have a whole lot of earnings to support their price. in a environment where there's much higher interest rates that matters. so there's that and i really believe the changing of the guard is that those companies were dumped for a reason, two of them not so much but amazon and netflix and meta, they are companies that are very targeted by consumers or they, you know, that's who they are are consumer companies and consumers are fickle. i just don't think that we can buy those companies, put them in our portfolio and set them and forget them. people's taste change and i think their tastes are changing. lauren: these companies have really never operated in an environment where rates are going up and money isn't as cheap anymore. rob, to you, what's your headline in 2022? >> well, i think the headline's got to be don't fight the fed
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and interest rates absolutely matter and to kim's point, you know, that's what we're seeing, interest rates have risen and no such thing as free money anymore and for investors, jim was talking about corporate bonds at 5%. there's actually other places to invest now so investors are moving their money where they can get a rate of return that's not in growth, and they're not willing to wait so long for the return and you've seen that and talked about the growth index down 30% and look inside there, amazon, netflix, google. these name haves been cut in half this year and it's been a really tough year to try and fight the fed and not think about interest rates in your portfolio. lauren: kim, do you think we're in this new environment where higher interest rates are here to stay or think things get really bad and the fed pivots big time and we go back to the low rate, cheap money environment that we've been in for years? >> i'm going to split it right in the middle because i don't think we go into the super low rate environment, but i don't think we can sustain much above
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5% for very long. i actually think the fed is probably a little ahead of itself now given all the information, the leading indicators if you look at those. the economy is cooling and cooling fast. i think that it's going to be a lower interest rate but not near zero like it has been. lauren: got it, rob, where are you putting your money next year? >> i think, you know, i do what kim's saying in terms of the changing of the guard. there's a lot of validity to that and last time we saw that was in '99, 2000 with the big disruption and looked a lot like today and we were raising interest rates at that time and old leaders of 90s to 2000s and ibms and syscos and got so big and grew so fast there was no future growth. the fang names are over and one sector and area that's been left for dead for well over a decade now is the old small caps where you used to get a premium for investing in these smaller companies but not only today do
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i think those were people that put their money and index is cheaper and vanguard etf vioo. right now you don't have to pick individual stocks because that's going to be a big macro move and that's somewhere i'm looking at but also there's individual names, roadblocks, names like crowd strike, ui path and names right now that are a little bit controversial and they're struggling in the environment and amazon 1999-2001, that stock was down 90% before becoming a big market leader and i think investors for little longer time frame have to look at those names. lauren: rob, quickly here roblox is a pick of yours and down today but up 3%. i'm not sure .y do you have any thoughts on how the stock is bucking the trend today in a big way? >> well, i think it's just that. that stock has been left for dead and i think people are trying to position themselves in
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the next big themes. that was a stock that was 60, 70% higher, not too long ago and we just didn't know about amazon and didn't know the winner and in the meta verse and look at big brands, they're all associating with roblox but that's a name that should have some part of your portfolio. lauren: kim, anything you're liking? >> sure, i like exxonmobil because they're an energy company but a great management company and get product to end consumer. i like intel and i also like netapp, which is a storage company for businesses and cloud providers. we're all making way more data than we can store and i don't think that's a trend we'll reverse any time soon. lauren: kim, rob, thank you for the time. the perspective and advice. happy 2023. coming up, sam bankman-fried met with top white house officials
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not once or twice but four times in the months leading to the collapse of his company. i'm sure they weren't talking about the weather. what were they talking about? maybe regulation. natalie brunell sounds off on that at 2:50 but first biden's new tax credit for electric vehicles. is it just another payout for the rich that can afford that? we ask that question to scott shellady next. ♪
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lauren: president bind says he wants lek -- biden says he wants electric vehicles to make up half of all auto sales by the year 2030, and a new provision going into effect sunday is a big move towards that goal. starting january 1, many americans will qualify for a tax credit of up to $7500 for buying a specific electric vehicle. let's bring in the cow guy at rfdtv scott shellady. scott, you know these federal tax credits are great if you can figure out if the car you're interested in even qualifies because it's very confusing. i was just looking through part of the list.
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can we afford an ev in the first place even if we get the $7500? >> well, let's call the $7500 what it is, it's a bribe; right. that's because they can't make the case for the american people it's an actual better car. i mean, i wasn't around back then, i feel like i was but i wasn't around when we got off of the horse and got into the car, i don't recall reading about any $7500 tax credit to get off the horse and get into the car. the car was a better option; right? this needs to be a better option and they've not made the sale to the american people. yes, it's more expensive and that's part of the problem. but also this could possibly be one of the biggest changes in my lifetime to the way we live and work; right. moving from a combustion engine to an electric vehicle, and there hasn't been any public talking period about this. there's been no vote on this. it's just been bribed or mandated from up high and i don't like the way that feels
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and sm smells and number two ifu notice during the holiday season watching football or whatever during this break, most ads for electric vehicles. what happened to the hybrid where we can kind of have electric and combustion. it's either combustion engine or electric vehicle. the government made the choice but not the sale. that's why they have to bribe you with $7500. make the sale and america will move over. when you move from combustion engines or fossil fuels to electricity, electricity is a complimentary power. it's not the only thing we can run on. we need -- it can be alongside combustion engines, but we can't rely on it 100% but the government is telling us we have to. they haven't voted on it and no open talking about it and it's minnesota mandated and it's -- been mandated and one i don't think is a good idea. lauren: i remember two weeks ago the head of toyota said quietly but it was big news and we're kind of doing the traditional
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gas car, the ev of course all electric but hybrids because we realize that consumers want choice and everybody was like, whoa, he actually said that. let's move on to the next topic, this is a good one. it's an opportunistic ed in the la times and headline s i bought a tesla to help the environment. now i'm embarrassed to drive it. that's because elon musk runs tesla and he runs twitter; right. >> well, whomever wrote that opportunistic ed is probably embarrassed about himself or herself also as well as from the car they may drive. number two is what did elon musk do and they're embarrassed about? they bought twitter and exposed -- lauren: yeah, everything going on behind the scenes at the white house. >> say that again. lauren: he's exposed all the back and forth between the white
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house and the fbi and silicon valley. he laid it all open. >> and so this person's actually embarrassed about that. i mean, just try to go there with our thinking. it doesn't make any sense at all. they're embarrassed about a wealthy man buying twitter and exposing what the white house was doing to free speech and they're embarrassed about that. that just doesn't make any sense at all. this person's living on a different planet, and i don't even know how it make it is in an opportunistic ed and it's fun -- operations officers ed and it's -- op ed and it's clown rolled on steroids and embarrassed to buy a car driven by a man uncovering free speech and problems with it. it doesn't make any sense at all. they should be embarrassed about writing the article and not the car they're driving. lauren: to play devil's advocate because i think there's truth to what i'm going to say, when elon musk officially took over twitter, october 27, tesla's stock is down by 46% because the view among tesla shareholders is that elon musk is distracted.
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i think that's a pretty fair statement. but where this op-ed comes in in my opinion is people saying because of all these other things going on with elon musk and twitter, the tesla brand has now been sullied in their opinion. i wonder how much of that is really going on and if it's a little bit, if it's going to start to explode. >> look, they're saying that this is the leap they're trying to make and i'm not buying it but they're trying to make the leap because the stock has been hit by 45 or 50%, the brand is sullied because of stock prices now. how many other firms would be sullied because of stock prices being down this year? i don't buy that and that doesn't make sense to me. the guy's brilliant and has a lot of balls in the air and maybe he's taken on too much and at the same time he's also expose add lot of things people don't like as well and he's going to take heat and he's going to pay prices here. this is what this country is about, they're going to try to cancel him or do whatever they can to shut him down.
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at the end of the day -- lauren: he can't be canceled. >> spacex and the likes and that's the effect they're in and he's taken that flag and planted in the ground and he'll have that hill that he'll die on. lauren: scott shellady, good to see you. thank you very much. >> thank you. lauren: update everybody on southwest. are we almost back to normal? they're returning to a relatively stable flight schedule this morning. it all started on a good note following one of their most chaotic weeks in history that saw cancellation of just about 16,000 flights since dece december 22. federal regulators are vowing to conduct a review of this crisis with all eyes on the airlines outdated technology, top government officials are calling for southwest to make things right or face financial repercussions and whatever they'll have to pay whether big refunds or fines or both. probably both. coming up, china reopening from their latest covid lockdown but
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their country's new policies are causing global concern. but first my next guest claims kim jong-un of north carolina is on his way to becoming -- north korea is on his way to becomes the world's new nuclear villain. rebecca grant joins us after this.
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lauren: russia is launching another wave of kamikaze drones at ukraine overnight and iran is supplying moscow with the drones records say. nate foy in kyiv, ukraine, with us with the details. good to see you, nate. reporter: good to see you, lauren. busy 36 hours here in kyiv and across the country and hours after yesterday's mass missile straik and the eighth since october, ukraine said russia launched 16 drones including seven targeting the capitol of kyiv. take a look at this video, ukraine says it shot down all of
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the drones in the follow-up attack but even an intercepted drone can cause damage and see that in the residential building and thankfully nobody was hurt in the follow-up attack unlike yesterday's deadly mass missile strike that killed four people and knocked out power for millions. also today take a look at this. president vladamir putin met virtually with chinese president president. listen to this. >> placing the entire range of russian chinese corporation and our relations is taken by military corporation and the importance of the russian strategic factor is growing. lauren, as intense fighting connells in the east, ukraine is
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investigating 58,000 possible war crimes and these are killings, kidnappings, indiscriminate bombings and sexual assaults. ukraine said russia must face a war crimes try butler joineddal before any -- tribunal before any direct peace negotiations can begin. back out here live president zelensky gave address in the past hour and says ukraine troops on the front lines in the east are actually gaining ground in some places, holding the line in others and said ukraine's air defense will improve even more in the new year. we'll send it back to you. lauren: nate foy in kyiv, thank you. joining me is inkent research president -- independent research president rebecca grant, good to see you. you say the number one priority for national security in the new year is for ukraine to defeat russia. but my question to you is this, does that happen on the battlefield because the former deputy national security advicer kt mcfarland says it's all about a peace deal. listen here and i'll get your
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response on the other side. >> the way to fight this war for ukraine is you can't win the war, you'll be destroyed and you can't win. you'll win the peace. you crane talking about people -- ukraine talking about people investing in the postwar ukraine and how does russia win? russia can't win the peace because nobody will invest in russia. five years from now it's going to be a destitute economy. lauren: rebecca? >> good point and i think russia also can't win in ukraine at this point. we've seen such moe momentum on ukraine's -- momentum on ukraine's side and the u.s. and 48 nations are continuing to supply arms and it's key for russia to lose in ukraine because of what nate pointed out and that military cooperation with china and russia has a team of iran, north korea and china backing that up and that's got to understand military invasions do not work. that's what's on the line in ukraine as for the fate of
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ukraine itself. lauren: sending the message to the countries. what do we do now? do we start arming taiwan? >> there's defensive arm sales and i have a lot of complaints about the biden administration and they've been pretty steadfast and enabling everyone from nancy pelosi and senator blackburn to visit taiwan and show america's support in the region. we've got to keep the defensive arm sales going to taiwan. absolutely that's a top priority. lauren: have we been giving them enough or something we should be giving taiwan that would send a stronger message if you will? >> yeah, the top of taiwan's list includes f-16 fighters, some very advanced drones and other air defense systems, and we need to speed all of that up. it takes time for the production, taiwan needs to go to the front of the line and perhaps add some training with u.s. forces deployed to taiwan on and off to really show the
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resolve and to make china think twice. lauren: but that's provocative and we really don't want to make relations even worse with china and xi jinping, which brings me to north korea. i mean, kim jong-un is launching, i think i have about 70 missiles this year. he's perfecting his nuclear arms regime and his target is very likely the united states of america. >> yes, a huge change. he's never shot off this many missiles, some are old short range ones, but several of these are new, longer range types. kim is also throwing in his lot with russia and china and stopped all diplomacy with south korea and will use nuclear weapon ifs he wants to. that's why i say he's really -- it's like move over putin, kim jong-un is trying to become the new nuclear villain, and this is a really disturbing development. i expect to see more in 2023, the more he tests those
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missiles, the more they learn unfortunately. lauren: unfortunately is right. let's close this up as we move back to the united states, the southern border that . is a national security crisis as well. how concerned are you about the national security crisis going on in the southern border? i know everyone is talking about the humanitarian crisis but it's a national security crisis as well. >> yes, it is. one's -- my heart breaks to see that but, look, border security is national security. there are hundreds of thousands of illegal crossings and you know of course about the fentanyl, 45 nationalities and people on the terror watch list and even russians crossing that border and time for us to do what every other country in the world does and that's secure and protect all our boarders, particularly the southern border. it's got to happen. this cannot go on like this. lauren: but we're help other nations secure theirs instead. re-beck a thank you so much for the time -- rebecca, thank you
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so much for the time. appreciate it. coming up, disgraced ftx founder sam bankman-fried breaking down latest ties to washington. local government expressing concernings over china lifting its covid zero policies and jim bianco says what's happening in china is connected to what's happening on wall street and today it's not looking good. he'll explain in just a bit.
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lauren: china lifted their zero covid policies and hillary vaughn is live at the white house with the details and some of the reactions so far. hillary. reporter: hi, lauren. some countries are ramping up covid testing for travelers coming from china and france is the latest country this afternoon to announce travelers from china to france have to show a negative covid test before flying as china drops its
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zero covid lockdown policies, the world still doesn't know if they can trust them to let the world know if there's another bad outbreak in china. italy started testing all travelers here in the u.s. from china and testing will start january 5. president biden approving of the country-specific testing requirement even though in the past he called trump's travel restrictions targeting china specifically xenophobic. >> this is no time for donald trump's record of hysteria and xenophobia, hysterical xenophobia and fear mongering to lead the way instead of science. reporter: but some medical experts are skeptical that testing two days before traveling is enough to keep bad straistrains out of the countryd at bay. testing two days before means someone could test negative on one day but be positive two days later when actually boarding the flight to the u.s..
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republicans say this is a charade because there's no mandatory testing happening at the southern border right now. >> i think of the biden administration to enforce the policies against the chinese coming in to say new york city but not any one of the 160 countries that are people are derived from coming across our southern border. we have in restrictions and no policies there, and we have people coming across with covid, with whooping cough, with mumps, measles, eradicated diseases and we're doing nothing about it. reporter: some republicans don't think that president biden has done enough to get to the bottom of the origins of covid-19, something they say they will change when they take control of the house next week. lauren. lauren: getting exciting. hillary vaughn, thank you. joining me now bianco research president and the european union passengers from china is unjustified and two flights from
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china to where do you come in from the mandating of travelers from china. spring of 2020 and it was sick people leaving china and foreign nationals to visit china and for the rest of the world and china basically reporting on who's sick and the world's got a reason to be skeptical about china and keep them at arm's length relationship and i'm not surprised this is happening. lauren: it was a complete 180 by beijing and i hesitate to ask but i'm curious your reaction, should we close the border
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temporarily with china? >> i don't think we need to close the border with china, but i think, you know, i'm primarily a financial analyst and from that perspective, i think what you're going to find is this complete 180 in wall street believes that everybody will go back to work in china and working overtime and making iphones and everything else and they'll flood the rest of the world with stuff, that means inflation will come down and the fed can pivot and stock market can go up. never works that way. so i think really -- lauren: why not? >> it's a lot more complicated and people complaining about zero covid and they were complaining they wanted democracy and end of censorship. that's what they want. they didn't want to get back to work. and that end of -- they want democracy and end of censorship will continue and it'll be a lot more compl complicated and we no foster and encourage that in china and by closing the border, we don't foster and encourage that.
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we need to have some kind of a proper restrictions on them, but we also need to understand what it was that the public was asking for last month when they closed the border -- or when they closed down -- lauren: i put it in your head. >> yes, you did. you did. lauren: this is ideological revolution in china and wall street is taking note but i was looking at your notes and you say that wall street and the chinese communist party are aligned and seem very much unaligned to me. explain. >> they're aligned that they want to believe this is about everybody wanting to go back to work. they want to believe that this is about ending zero covid and everybody back to the factory making things, believing there'll be a second half rebound in the chinese economy that will then benefit the rest of the world that will benefit lower inflation and all of that. all i'm trying to say was it's a lot more complicated like it was
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previous to this. in 2019, we had the extension of the umbrella revolution in hong kong, that was getting some serious traction and how did the chinese deal with that in 2020, they locked down hong kong because of hong kong and covid ended that revolution. they did that last month and everybody was complaining about democracy and that's it. we're going to let the virus rip and everybody's afraid to leave their home now. there's no more protests. lauren: amazing. jim, thank you. interesting perspective. we do appreciate it. happy new year. >> thank you. happy new year to you. lauren: indeed. coming up, talking the future of crypto heading into 2023 with natalie brunell but first, do you remember scott lawrence $28 taco bell order that went viral earlier this year? well, are there more tacos in his future? we're going to get into that and take another look at that receipt right after this. ♪
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lyric our next guest sees a silver lining and that's a good opportunity. lauren: things got 24% cheaper this afternoon and kings view management chief investment officer scott martin. i haven't seen you in a while, scott. >> i haven't seen you ever, lauren. thank you. first time solo. lauren: you're right. >> i'm the king of silver lining so let's put that disclaimer ahead. to your point, this silver line asking that much brighter because of the downdraft you've been talking about all show. lauren: are stocks cheap enough or are we waiting till the second or third quarter of 2023 and then buying? >> great question. cheap is in the eye of the beholder isn't it almost? how much is your time line? two, three years then yeah, stocks are cheap enough. a year, probably wait a little learn but take a lesson at this hour, previous history and might be redundant but history tells us that markets do get overly cheap, they extend too high and they extend too low and so this one probably is cheap and likely
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getting cheaper and buy on the way down and in one, two, three, four years even if the economy doesn't recover as fast as we think it will in the next six to twelve months, it'll pre-elmore want and the fed lowers -- preemptive. lauren: tesla and southwest. >> yeah, nicely there's probably children watching, they've been in the garbage and similar to what -- and in the garbage still. a lot of those stocks are still suffering through southwest coming out of the crisis over the weekend and of course tesla with the twitter issues and it's like anything, lauren, when things get overextended to the downside, emotions go out the window and a lot of folks sell these st stocks and dump for otr things and that's when i want to get in when everybody is out and done selling and exhausted, that's when i want to buy. lauren: tesla at -- shoot, i don't have the number in front
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of me right now. i'm stealing there this from jim bianco and i'd like to get it from you. pulling up the chart, it's philly fed data and shows right now 43.5% of people expect a recession in the next four quarters, that's like the highest ever. exactly. is it -- when everyone else is going one way you should move in the other direction. >> 100%. look at chart like you put up and tesla is like $121 these days and $400 a few months ago and it's ridiculous and if this recession happens, if this market downturn happens, if this inflation still continues to go crazy and happens, it's the most telegraphed future in the history of the united states in the world and everybody saw this coming and doesn't happen like that to your point about the recession their data and my guess is people missed the turn around, they missed the recovery and start chasing it and that's when you want to start getting out but there's a whole lot of fun to have on that period of time when that's starting to occur. lauren: can you say stock prices
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quick and if i say microsoft, would you give me the exact number and exact quote? >> i could guess. 50, that's at 1.5. to your point, a lot of stock prices get to le levels and thas where i wanted to buy. lauren: 310. >> take the middle and areas that stock prices will look crazy and that's when you have to hold your nose and buy. when you have to go, it's like betting on nfl games and betting on the team that look the worst like my minnesota vikings, they're the ones that work out and those are the ones that nobody wants and easy pickings, i'm telling you. lauren: all right, scott, i should say have a terrible new year and maybe you'll have a good one. >> it'll be great. lauren: happy new year then. >> sad new year. lauren: sad new year, thank you. he had a revolving door to the white house and reports that ft and's sam bankman-fried had four meetings at the white house with top staff this year alone. the last one was as recently as september 8. two months before ftx collapse and joining us now coin story
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podcast hope natalie brunell and the timing here is really fishy. >> that's right, lauren, thanks for having me. sbf trying to influence many powerful people and many didn't do due diligence and trusted and didn't verify and earlier this year he testified before congress and he talked about transparency and how important it is and then now we learn that his operation was anything but transparent, nobody knew about his political donations and meetings and nobody knew he had a honey pot and commingled everyone's funds and out there with his family purchasing mansions and that's the problem with the space that's largely opaque, and i think customers need to demand more transparency in the new year from companies like this one and from political leaders and reminds me of the great quote by robin williams maybe politicians should wear sponsor jackets like nascar so we know who owns them and sbf own add lot of people. lauren: not a bad idea.
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would you make the proverse argument that perhaps ftx fallout is the best christmas gift anyone could have got and two executive striking deals and because some of the politicians are so embarrassed by the fiasco because lawmakers didn't regulate crypto in time, this is moving really fast and it's going to continue to move fast and then investors in the crypto industry can get past it? >> i think it's a lesson learned and really important so finally people understand the difference between bitcoin and crypto, something we try to educate people on and it'll move fast in the sense that sbf has abeen apologizing publicly and knows his guilty and he's afraid of prison and will cooperate to reduce any kind of sentence and he's trying to convince everyone he's guilty of bad accounting and mismanagement and that's not true. his intentions are not on trial but his actions are and makes me
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think of an analogy that michael sailor said what sbf did was like a 14-year-old who stole his parent's lamborghini, he knew it was wrong and picked up all his friends and realized the car had like $100,000 of cash, a gun and drugs and he took it on a joyride that ended up with the car totaled and maybe that wasn't the intention, but it ended up in a disaster and that was the wreck of a lifetime and he needs to face consequences because it hurt a lot of people. lauren: i love that analogy and might steal it. he's in court, there's a plea on tuesday and what do you expect -- how do you expect him to plea? >> i wouldn't be surprised if he pleads guilty because he already has admitted his guilt and saying sorry, but i guess we'll have to see. lauren: the crypto industry and you do differentiate cryptocurrencies versus bitcoin and industry lost $1 trillion in market value this year. what are your thoughts for next year? >> well, if you like volatility in this year and more of it at
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bitcoin facing more head winds and i think that with the fed trying to maintain the aggressive stance raising interest rates, we're going to see they may have to be forced to pivot before they want to because this is all in the face of mounting interest expense and tax receipts falling off a cliff and the deficit ballooning and i think they may have to pivot but till then liquidity keeps decreasing and a head wind for bitcoin and we'll see more choppiness and we eluded to earlier, this is a certain buying opportunity for those really understanding the technology and see it as the future so i'm going to definitely buy here. for the next wave up, yeah, happy new year. lauren: i hear the buying opportunity when you think of there was a call last year that bitcoin would hit 500,000 this year. i mean in that case, yes, but i'm not sure many people think we found the floor for bitcoin yet. we'll see. natalie, thank you for the time. and the analogy.
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>> thank you for having me. lauren: that i'll reuse. we're making money right afterce this.
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lauren: a quick check, a final check of this show for the markets this year and it is a selloff of 1% across the board. thank you so much for joining us for part of this week. i'm lauren simonetti, charles is back this week and kelly o'gray seizure disorders sitting in for liz. hi, kelly. kelly: hi, lauren. all red on the screen an


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