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tv   Making Money With Charles Payne  FOX Business  January 16, 2023 2:00pm-3:00pm EST

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neil: it is so weird the past two hours the market has not moved. it has just not, markets are closed today. okay. there you go. i knew that, i love it when people write in, didn't you know the markets were chosed today? didn't you know. lauren: lauren: is in to take us through the next hour -- lauren simonetti. lauren: good afternoon, neil. i'm lauren simonetti, this is "making money." markets passion to honor martin luther king today. it treasury secretary janet yellen warning we could hit the debt ceiling this thursday. gary kaltbaum and erin gibbs are here. they will guide us through. while the conference board's
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dane at that pierson shares what the top ceos about overall state of economy. did you see it? bitcoin climbing back above 20,000 for the first time in two did ftx help take out the garbage? or is this a case of fomo for traders? on mlk day we celebrate the progress black americans have made while noting challenges ahead with jack brewer. all that and so much more on "making money". ♪. lauren: well the markets are closed today, but the story is a potential breakout when they do open. could wall street be on the cusp of a tear? one big bank certainly thinks so. that is goldman sachs. the wealth management team expects the s&p 500 to end this year 12% higher even if we see a mild recession. here now, kaltbaum capital management president,
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gary kaltbaum and main street asset management chief financial officer erin gibbs. gary, erin, thank you. gary you first. i know you don't care what analysts think but goldman says that investors should consider increasing their exposure to equities if they weaken further. that means to me that they're bullish on the comeback story. i just wonder if they have the appetite after last year? do you have the appetite? >> all i can tell you the market had the best week since the highs of the market last week. the advance-decline figures moving up big time, more leadership. things like airlines, i mean skyrocketed last week. definitely much better. it has been all about the 10-year yield. in december the 10-year yield weren't up big time. the market went down big time. now the 10-year yield is coming down, market is going up. if that continues i think we have higher prices. to think we know the end of 2023
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with some variables and so many crazies running the country right now i think that is going to far. i want to know what happens in the next three days before all of 2023 but so far so good this year. lauren: i want to ask but the crazies in a second. let's get get erin in here. you like travel, you like leisure. what are your expectations? >> for united, the stock is already up 34% for the year just like you mentioned of the so wall street is expecting a massive pete, particularly by united. if they don't proout -- blowout expectations i expect a pullback. expectations are high. i prefer to go to delta or ryanair because so much is baked in for tomorrow. lauren: why ryanair? time to add european stocks to the portfolio? what about ryan and what do you think about european stocks too?
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>> it's a really a combination of both. it is part of the reopening trade, global recovery, the euro getting stronger versus the dollar. you have all of that going for it and so europe is really seeing a bit of a higher resurgence. it is looking for a stronger recovery out of this year. they had a lot of tailwinds throughout the winter. it was beat up more than the u.s. last year. i think this is a good play the three to next six months. lauren: gary, let's go down to d.c., we have a lot of fights going on, right? we have the debt ceiling debate. will politicians, will congress increase the debt limit that we're expected to hit soon? the national debt nearly $32 trillion and counting. well, you have the document scandal, right, with president biden. former president donald trump. this is a for lack of a better word uncertainty. do you think wall street cares
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about these things taken together or separately? >> uncertainty is never a great thing but i don't think these are big market movers right now but down the road this is -- they used to fight over the debt ceiling. debt used to matter. economics 101 says if you keep raising more debt that's bad this trying to convince you raising more debt is the only way to get out of trouble and that is troublesome. give you a couple numbers. before covid, federal spending was 24.000000000000. this year it is 6 trillion. they're continuing to taunt the markets and continuing to taunt the economy in ways we have never seen. eventually i don't think is here. as far as the biden at this juncture, two words, coverup but i don't think that moves the markets in any big way unless it gets deep, down and dirty, and i'm not so sure it will get there. lauren: back to the debt ceiling, gary, are you at least
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encouraged with the market -- >> i hear you. are you talking to me? lauren: gary, follow up for gary, i will get to you in a second. with the compromises that house speaker kevin mccarthy made, we'll not keep spending and spending, we want spending cuts to accompany this. do you think that gives investors any optimism we get our country's pokeket book in fiscal order? >> it is good to see somebody speak about it but unfortunately right now you have something called the veto pen from the president and they have already came out and said no spending cuts. maybe some deal gets done. one thing we know spending is going higher, spending is going much higher. until we get sane people in the house, in the senate, in the white house, you know damn the torpedoes we're going much higher. eventually we'll go 7 and $8 trillion of spending. that is just money coming out of
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the tax pay, coming out of the economy. lauren: erin, the consumer is starting to buckle. when you see investments paying off in the future is there one out of the box name that you can give us? >> one named company a lot of people might not be familiar with a amadeus it. it is focused in europe. it's a spanish stock. it has a lot going for the regional area and strong industry making all the tourism services even more efficient. lauren: erin, gary, thank you for starting the show with us. we do appreciate it. meanwhile the list of big banks warning of a weaking economy is long and growing. jpmorgan, bank of america, citigroup, wells fargo, all agree a mild recession is coming. dana petersen, chief economist at the conference board. dana, nice to see you.
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what does the conference board see happening in terms of recession this year? >> sure. we actually have been calling for recession in the u.s. since back in june of last year. we think the recession is probably starting right about now. all of our leading indicators are suggesting that and we're probably see a short and shallow recession, three quarters, and we'll start to get out of it by the end of this year. lauren: short and shallow, we like that, however food prices are stubbornly high. everybody knows that. to put numbers on that, egg prices are up 60% in the past year. if you have got a family, you need milk, you need bread, both of those are up double digits. while inflation overall is coming down food inflation does not seem to be. does that make the fed's job here even harder? >> it certainly does because food prices are determined by factors that the fed really can't control. certainly we know that food prices are being affected by the war in iranian, also you have the bird flu where essentially animals are getting stick and they're not viable for food
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production. so all that is raising the cost of food and the fed really can't control that. the other thing that is rising, not seeing any, any relief here is rents and rents are a reflection what happened in the housing market in the past even though the housing market is starting to cool. lauren: and they're sticky, right? you negotiate rent once a year. >> absolutely. >> but these, i mean consumers need to pay high rent, high home prices still high. mortgage rates and other rates as well as what is happening at the grocery store. macy's comes out, the ceo, mr. gannett, yeah we had a good holiday season but the consumer really is under pressure. we know this because we noticed two things. number one, i'm kind of guilty of this, when you go shopping for christmas for instance, one for you, one for me, hey it was a good deal, i really liked that. macy's says less self-shopping and more swiping of the store credit card which carry as huge apr. would you agree that the
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consumer, a, is slowing and b, would you go as far to say the consumer decides, determines if the economy slips into recession? >> well, yeah, a, the consumer is definitely slowing in terms of spending. they're not spending as much on things they need to finance like cars and furniture and appliances but they're also spending less on a lot of discretionary items. but the one key thing consumers are spending a lot on, they continue to spend on is experiencal services. what is that? hotels, restaurants, travel. anything that they can go outside of the house and enjoy. so in that sense consumers will determine whether or not we go into recession if they continue to spend on services, also if they continue to swipe that credit card which we all are seeing in terms of credit card debt rising. >> but when you look at inflation services inflation is red hot right now, right? for, especially for the company that has to pay those wages.
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dana, you have a c-suite outlook. this is what ceos telling the conference board keeps them up at night. what are the big issues? >> biggest issue is recession in the u.s. in fact more than half of ceos think there is going to be rao he session this year and after that they're worried about inflation and labor shortages. all these things are economic. all these things are tied together. certainly inflation is being driven by higher wages especially in the services that require people to report to work, those in-person services. with all of that we do think the fed is going to maintain its tightening policy at least two more rate headaches, excuse me in february and march and that's going to remain very tight policy through the rest of this year. we're not looking for cuts until next year. lauren: so they pause. let's say you get 25 in february and another 25 and then pause until the cut happens in '24? >> yes.
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those are our thoughts and with that, that tight policy, it is going to feed into recession. lauren: all right, dana, thank you for the time. we appreciate it. >> thanks so much. lauren: of course. coming up, the debt "countdown" showdown once again america will come close to not being able to pay its bills. will congress agree to boost the debt ceiling again to avoid default? we'll have that, after the break bitcoin breaks 21,000 for the first time since the epic collapse of ftx. how high can bitcoin go, or does it go lower? stay with us to find out. ♪. dad, we got this.
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♪. lauren: the bitcoin bounce. the currency is above 21,000 for the first time since the ftx collapse in november and that caused a pretty sharp selloff. let's bring in north man trader sven henrik. thanks for being on.
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>> great to be with you, lauren. lauren: bitcoin was stuck at 16, 17,000 for months. it couldn't get out of that range. why is it breaking out to 21,000? >> to quote mark twain the news of my death was greatly exaggerated. the what happened last year in bitcoin was necessary to get rid of the fluff and excess of failed business models. think of the tech crash in 2000. big winners, ultimately, apple, amazon, dropped 70, 80% and then they recovered. what we saw from the ftx fallout, subsequent action, that bitcoin held in pretty stable. yes, it made a new low in the fallout of all of this, much like the broader market, i find that highly interesting, the new lows came on a positive divergence. i look at this from a technical perspective. suddenly we see a breakout of a
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technical pattern. we see that a cross the board in a lot of indices across the globe. i find that of note and optimism of in terms of inflation having peaked so making that a contributing factor here. lauren: sven, you're saying about saying cryptocurrency and bitcoin traded along with equities? >> it certainly did with the run-up in the vast liquidity bubble. we had 99% correlation for a long time. after the ftx bomb we saw the correlation taper off as bitcoin basically stuck flat. but now year-end tax loss selling in equities in particular, we saw some selloffs in that regard. that is now over. that hangover is over. the big question here how that optimism in terms of inflation can translate into call it tailwinds. remember last year, rising yields and a rising dollars were a major headwind for equities and all asset classes but they
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peaked in september and october in dollar is down almost near 10%. that is now morphing into a tailwind. there is a lot of concerns how earnings will actually play out this year and with the dollar lower and inflation having peaked and expected to come down a lot more significantly that could translate into further optimism in support of equities and assets in general. lauren: so your argument cryptocurrencies are not another way to make money, invest them in the way you would with stocks? they will go in the same direction, no? >> bitcoin in particular i see as a major asset class that has long-term value and it had acted technically and in conjunction with liquidity. what it was missing was regulation. i think we'll head toward that very shortly. lauren: i spoke to market watchers this morning and they
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would disagree. they would say bitcoin might see eight thousand before it climbs back up. nonetheless i want to get this in with you, sven. davos, 116 billionaires, business magnates are in davos for the annual world economic forum but this year none of them are chinese tycoons or russian oligarchs which brings us to the question, when you look at covid-19 and war in ukraine, has these major events changed the world order? sven, are you still with us? we lost sven. that was my question. it is amazing, 100 plus billionaires, none from china, none from russia with all the oil money and tech money and everything else. coming up we're celebrating the life and legacy of civil rights icon dr. martin luther king, jr. that is jack brewer. he is coming up just a bit. yes the clock is ticking on a deal to raise the debt ceiling in d.c., the white house says it is not up for debate.
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>> there is no -- >> we will not be doing any negotiation over the debt ceiling this should be done without conditions. >> the debt ceiling no doubt will be a knife fight. lauren: a knife fight. can they get it done? we'll take you to capitol hill to find out where things stand. that is just ahead. ♪. hi, i'm darlene and i lost 40 pounds with golo in just eight months. golo has really taught me how to eat better and feel better. as long as you eat the right food groups
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♪. >> dr. king wasn't just fighting for the future of black
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children. but he was fighting for the future of all children. president biden: we face another inflection point in our nation's history, one that is going to determine what this country looks like several decades from now. dr. king's life and legacy in my view show us the way forward. >> sure does. from ebenezer baptist church in atlanta, georgia, houston, texas, washington, d.c., across the nation americans are remembering, honoring the life of dr. martin luther king, jr. including my next guest, jack brewer who serves on the federal commission of social status of black men and boys. jack, good to see you. >> been a while. great to be back. lauren: what does today mean to you? >> you know dr. martin luther king was a reverend first, he was a man of god and i pray his legacy really be remembered in christ, in christ jesus. that is really who he was. i don't like to see his messaged watered down, made secular.
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this man carried his bible everywhere he went. and he really was the example of the love of christ, loving all religions, all races, all people, asking people to come together. he wasn't there just fighting for rights of black people but all of god's children to follow the word of god. you know preached sermons, gospel. he is a gospel preacher. today we must remember mlk day is a christian holiday. it's a sell abrasion of the power of christ, around around the celebration of a man like dr. king. our racial divide, political divide, all the divides across the land and only be healed by the blood of jesus, the unifying word of god. i hope that is the message that rings across this nation. lauren: yeah. also the only federal holiday
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designated by congress as a national day of service, not just a day off, some time off, a day of service. what does that mean to you? >> it means a lot. the word of god teaches us jesus didn't come here to be served but to serve and give his life as a ransom to many. so i run a place called the serving institute through the jack brewer foundation. we serve in the prisons as the word tells us to do. we serve fatherless, widows, as the word tells us to do. i think it is important for us to be living examples of christ here on earth where people can feel the holy spirit in our presence. we go out, show our neighbors that we love them. right now we have a issue in our nation, the civil rights issue of our time. you know mlk marched for jobs and freedom back in the '60s. today we need to be marching for fatherlessness. we need to be marching to get our families back intact. we are the most fatherless nation in the world which is
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creating the most joblessness. which is creating the most criminality. which is creating the most gaps in education. and so if we all want to really remember mlk's legacy, we need to get on that bandwagon to start to fight the fight in our communities across america. 18.6 million fatherless kids is a stain on our nation. today, we should all join hands, rejoice in the name of jesus, rally around the message of mlk, do something to stop this fatherlessness crisis in our nation. lauren: that fatherlessness, jack, because of prison? >> no more than that. culturally it became a fad to have kids, not take care of them. culturally it became acceptable to marry woman you have children with. i went through the same things. culturally our kids listening to music, media, surrounding
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themselves around maces that embrace the broken family. i think we need to change that. our laws need to change, housing laws, things actually encouraging fatherlessness. so we have a lot of issues we can fix. the men in prison, vast majority of them are fatherless. which means that curse is upon kids. lauren: a cycle. >> it's a cycle. they have fathers in prison. they have kids headed for prison. so at some point we need to realize what is the root cause of the issues that we talk about, want to be social justice war divorce about and justice warriors, let's wake up to be the american family again. lauren: jack brewer, thank you for your time and everything you do. we'll be back with more "making money". ♪ korswim® by td ameritrade is more than a trading platform.
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and to share that with us that we need to get the word out that we have to take care of these great heroes and their families. you know, as i started to be more and more successful, i was like, how can i help? but when i heard of the tunnel of the towers, and i met brandon in idaho and his family, i was like, wow. there's actually a charity where we know where the money's. going to go. we have 95.1% of every dollar goes to our programs. and i think brandon's a great spokesman for t2t and and his wife, shannon, has two daughters. i mean, oh, my god. they're just special families. so pretty much, if you put your life on the line, if something goes bad, they're there. that's awesome. yeah. they're incredible people, man. you saw all the stuff we put in these homes, right? i was i was blown away. and they deserve it. they earned it. this is not of course, we give them a mortgage free home, but look what they gave up. they gave up their bodies so, cole, why should americans give donate help? tunnel to towers foundation.
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♪. lauren: the clock is ticking as we're nearing the day the u.s. reaches its debt limit. edward lawrence live from the white house with what happens now. edward. >> reporter: lauren, seems like you're doing every show. every time i look up you're on tv now. treasury secretary janet yellen has been sounding alarm what she is doing. she sent a letter to the leadership in congress about the debt ceiling situation, getting close to it. she says she will start on thursday extraordinary measures to make sure that government keeps room on the credit card. now those measures would allow the government to keep spending until sometime around mid-june. basically the treasury department would not make any new investments in the largest federal and postal worker health and retirement funds. the talk about the showdown has already started. >> if you look just in the last four years that democrats were in the majority they increased discretionary spend about i 30%. when republicans were in the
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majority for 8 years prior, they didn't increase it by one dollar. >> reporter: new house speaker is ready to sit down with the p to work out new spending cuts. the white house publicly leaving the argument over debt ceiling and spending to congress. >> quoting from the secretary's letter, unlikely cash, extraordinary measures will be exhausted before early june but that does not mean that congress should not wait until then to raise the debt ceiling. >> reporter: the press secretary says that the president believes congress should work this out. he will not negotiate she says over the debt ceiling. we have until june. the two sides are pretty far apart, lauren. we'll see if they come back together. lauren: they have a few months. >> reporter: they have a few months. lauren: edward, thank you very much. edward lawrence in d.c. i want to bring in carol roth. carol, good to see you. what is your takeaway on the drama with you once again see
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when it comes to the debt limit and the nation's debt is 31.4 trillion and climbing? >> drama, drama, lauren. i refer to congress they perform political theater and legally launder money and this drama episode is no exception. obviously in the short term here we're not going to default on the debt. we have plenty of assets we could sell or lease if we needed to raise cash. lauren: right. >> the issue is the mid to long term lending. we have no fiscal responsibility and everybody is focused on the sideshow. why is it that we have this after the fact debt ceiling? why when they're passing spending are they not attaching the way they're going to fund it to it? why are they not balancing the budget so we don't run deficits, so we don't need to finance it with debt? that is really the crux of the issue and if we don't get some fiscal responsibility, that is when this becomes not just drama that we're talking about.
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this will be a real issue. lauren: that's what i hear some in republican leadership saying, right? it is about time, we have to balance the family budget, not just keep spending and spending. carol, i wanted to lean in on your expertise when it comes to small business. the white house is doubting the cpi report from last week as good news. and it is. here is white house press secretary back on friday. listen here. >> this is further proof the president's economic plan is working even though inflation is high in most major economies it is coming down in america and giving families more breathing room. lauren: would you agree, carol? >> do you remember that movie, the princess bride, there was a line you keep using that word and i don't think it means what you think it means? i feel like everything from working to breathing room is not what it means. first of all i don't really know what the plan was. the plan was to shut off fossil
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fuels. that added to inflation. the plan was the american rescue plan. that added to inflation. the plan is continued spending like that is hurting the federal reserve. the outcome is less excess savings, low personal savings rates, high debt. even cardi b is rapping about videos about the grocery store. lauren: lettuce. >> i don't they quite have a handle what is going on here. lauren: it is freebies. that is the plan. don't ever pay your student loan debt ever again. rent moratoriums, this and that. it is freebies. gas relief checks. you brought up fossil fuels. we'll send you a check every month to make up the painful cost of gasoline. after referrals, two million businesses will have to start payments for covid loans they received during the pandemic. they have to start doing this soon by the end of january. can businesses handle this?
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what kind of a strain will it put on some of them? >> definitely not the small businesses. it is so frustrating, think about the kennedy center, that got 25 million. they didn't have to pay that back. think of all the big business bailouts they haven't had to pay back. small businesses their businesses were stolen for the common good. that is eminent domain. they're owed due compensation. the fact they have to pay this back after they were shut down, after the labor supply has been desmitted, of a record inflation, we'll see more small businesses hurting. we're seeing a line put out that 40% of small businesses can't pay their rent. the national federation of independent businesses are showing decreased optimism for 12 years running. small businesses are getting consolidated out in favor of big businesses. we're not going to have that choice and that american dream anymore, lauren. lauren: at the same time, carol, 36% of small businesses say they're back at the sales level they saw before the pandemic.
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that is encouraging, no? >> 36%? what is the flipside of that? lauren: okay, fine. >> that is back to that. we're talking about 32.6 million small businesses. that is tens of millions of that were not back to where they were before the pandemic and they're facing all this these issues. a real challenge on small business. lauren: good to see you, carol appreciate it. is elon musk spending too much time on twitter? tesla will be under the microscope this week, investors are concerned he is spreading himself way too thin. relentlessly high energy prices socked americans last year. has anything changed to lessen the pain this year? scott shellady, if lawmakers learned any lessons. ♪.
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saving you up to 60% a year. and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities. ♪. lauren: oil is expecting a unfriendly hit after a seven-month downturn, goldman sachs is now predicting brent oil reaches $110 a barrel
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by the third quarter, by fall. i believe jeff flock who is in philadelphia with the details. they predict wti, we use here, at 92? >> reporter: for an average i think, 92, lauren. yeah. you know what they say, what goes down must come up. i think it wasn't isaac newton, yeah it was a commodities broker. we had seven months of declining oil prices but now those who know say it is going up but first you know it is interesting, prices are going up despite the fact that the energy information administration says we're going to pump more oil this year than we ever have in history. president biden takes a lot of heat for trying to reduce oil production. actually according to the government we'll be producing more. so he is doing a bad job of that. as to the forecast what is we're going to see in terms of a price for wti, yeah, it is citibank, the outlyer says it will be $75
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on average for the average barrel of oil. jpmorgan says 83. the government says 87, and goldman is the outlyer at 92. 92 on average, if we're $80 for half the year, we're at 100 for the other half so there you go. gas prices about what they were this time a year ago, not just about what they were, exactly what they were, $3.30 a year ago and $3.30 right now. but other oil-based products, not so good. take a look at numbers on jet fuel. yeah, you wonder why your airline ticket is so much? 42% more than it was this time last year for jet fuel and 36% more for home heating oil which as you know a the lo of homes here in the northeast, pennsylvanias. i checked other states they are similarly up. oil has big tentacles. it appears they will reach
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deeper into your pocketbook. lauren: as we're going to be using more than ever perhaps with the government saying, they're producing more, despite all their attempts to wane us off. jeff flock, good to see you. thank you. >> reporter: not working. >> not working. let's talk how it is not working with rftv, the cowboy, i just been watching too much yellowstone, i just finished season five last night. the cowboy, what do you think of that report? >> i love jeff's report, that they are producing more, obviously a little bit, but that is not enough. obviously not to take a victory lap on. they make it difficult for new things to start up where we get other new revenues oil. everybody, not everybody but most in the business would agree with the lease situation, what it takes with regulations to
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bring more oil to market it is much more difficult. there is disinvestment happening there. the bottom line when you take people from one energy source and force them, it's a revolution, not an evolution, we're forcing them over to an unsustainable energy source which is wind and solar which i would argue should be complimentary or supplementary, this is what happens. when you leave that one, when you leave oil behind, fossil fuels behind they get more expensive because there is disinvestment. they're not kept up to speed. there is, refineries and things like that. so that will make that more expensive. at the same time we're going to something that can't handle today's load. we already have stories, electricity in europe is starting to rival what it would cost for the tesla, what it would cost to put in your car for lien. go back to say coal, in year 2020 we used more than we did in 2019 and 21 we used more than
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20. '22 we'll get numbers out but i think we'll use more than '21. if we use more oil we need it. we should pump as much as we possibly can. that is the answer. are we doing as much as we can? no. maybe we're doing more than before but we're not doing as much as you can. lauren: scott, to me, the point was, if we're producing more the price should come down but that is not always what happens unfortunately because of other policies. real quick, because i actually want your response to this, stephen moore, the economist, said, look, everyone is saying we'll have a mild recession this year. it's possible he says that we don't have a recession if only, oh, let's say the white house could pivot when it comes to energy to lower the cost of natural gas and heating oil, fuel oil, et cetera. >> i could not agree more. look, whole reason we're in this problem in the beginning is because of and energy problem.
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we have not gone to the supply side of things. we've only gone to the demand side of things that is the fed, they're trying to kill demand f we would open up everything on the other side of the ledger which would be supply, this is self-made problem that we're going through right now. which means it can be solved by us. we refuse to do it because we're pushing everybody from fossil fuels, combustion engines to the green energy that just can't handle it. now we'll take away natural gas from the stoves at least that has been floated -- lauren: but can you -- from davos, scott? >> maybe from the jets they're flying in. does anybody else besides me think it is so hypocritical for them to fly the jets and tell us what to do with our lives? why is this even a thing? why is it even a thing? we should ignore what they have to say. lauren: we'll try to. scott shellady, good to see you. we'll not ignore you. i want to bring in mahoney capital management ken mahoney.
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ken, good to see you. first up, are you fully invested in the market right now? >> we're not. it's a little overbought. the federal reserve continues, we'll hear this week all from except for powell, they will be all over the place, hawkish, dovish, creates a lot of uncertainty. the biggest beef, lauren we see the earnings for the s&p 500 around $200 a share. the street is like 220, 230. i think they're a little bit on the high side. multiples are still contracting. rates are tying up higher for competition with stocks. you give yourself 17, 18, multiple, see 3600. we're knocking at the door of 4,000. markets are elastic. they can go way you, way down. fair value of 3hundred, chips off the table, well below that we're adding. that is the way we look at it. choppy market, oversold doing buying, do some selling when we hit resistance levels. lauren: energy names you like? >> exxon. you have to go with them.
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look at verticals, everything from integration to exploring, renewables. they're actually involved in renewables, chart shows near new highs. new highs make new highs. the biggest reason why we're there, last four or five quarters beat estimates raised guidance. very few companies were able to do that as long as they beat estimates raise guidance we'll continue to stay in the stock. lauren: bank of america saveda said, i thought this was kind of funny, bull case scenario, s&p ends year 4600, which would be a nice gain from here, worst case it goes down to 3,000 which would be bad. okay, exactly. but she is concerned about inflation especially for the services sector which is very labor intense. and we did get encouraging cpi numbers out last week. the market liked those numbers. is moving in the right direction good enough right now?
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>> i don't think so. but it is moving in the right direction. six month in a row this fed policy that flubbed it in 2021 they will flub it here. they will overdo it. i mean inflation, as you said is coming down. i don't know what the haste is. i think, you know, back in '21 we can't go backwards, hit the pedals, a quarter, a quarter, instead playing catchup, 3/4s, 3/4. innation should be at 2%. they got to get off that. having inflation back to 2%. that ship is sailed. lauren: it will take years. >> and to get that to that level, unemployment remarks tradeoff, 7, 6.7, a hideous number? the whole thing doesn't make a lot of sense. they should let this thing run its course a little bit. it is running in the right direction. lauren: brian moynihan, bank of america, i apologize, brian moynihan bank of america
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said unemployment will go to 5 1/2%. not 7. >> it is insidious looking for people to be laid off, demand destruction, lower inflation. they have to get off the goal of 2%. we're not going to be there anymore. >> ken, thank you very much for the time. >> thank you. >> coming up elon musk's troubles are piling up. tesla owners say they were duped. now he has to be in a courtroom with people he says hate him. we'll have all the details musk-related right after this. ♪. this thing, it's making me get an ice bath again. what do you mean? these straps are mind-blowing! they collect hundreds of data points like hrv and rem sleep, so you know all you need for recovery. and you are? i'm an invesco qqq,
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lauren: tesla is a stock to watch at the opening bell tomorrow when the market reopens. a judge has denied ceo elon musk's bid to move his scc trial over tweets he made back in 2018 about taking tesla private. a judge not allowing musk's request to move to texas -- the trial from san francisco to austin, texas. the trial will start in san francisco where musk says people don't like him because of everything happening at twitter. also some tesla owners are unhappy with him too after tesla
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cut some high end model three prices by 14% bringing them just under $54,000. the model y starting at $53,000, that's a cut of 20%. but i thought a cut was good news? it is because it puts both evs below that $55,000 cap and they're eligible for a federal tax incentive but current tesla owners say, well, we feel duped. that's it for making money. charles is back tomorrow. for now it's over to liz claman. liz: goldman sacks is calling it one o -- goldman sachs is calling it one of the top picks. lauren: it's got a strong brand but i'm still in the boat, liz. liz: you've anchored about every show today, oh my god. you are the machine, girl. thank you very much. u.s. stocks and bond markets will be closed for martin luther king jr. day but the "claman countdown" is live and kicking because global markets, oil, metals were all open in trading earlier and tons of breaking news and we need t


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