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tv   Cavuto Coast to Coast  FOX Business  January 19, 2023 12:00pm-1:01pm EST

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♪. stuart: so when was the trans continental railroad completed? there is your dates for choice. ashley, what have you got? >> i think it's one of the last two, 58 did, i'm going with 1869. stuart: i believe you are correct. i did an "american built" special on continental railroad. i should know. it is 1869. by the way "american built" is my show, airs each monday night, 9:00 p.m. eastern on fox business. don't forget to send in your friday feedbacks. okay, i got to tell you this, this is an important development. liv golf just signed a deal to stream its 14 tournaments around the world on the cw network and stream through the cw app, big deal. saudi money in sports. neil, it is yours. neil: unstoppable force i guess.
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thank you for that, stuart. let's look what is happening at the corner of wall and broad. we have a selloff going on right now, 271 points. i was talking to charlie brady senior stocks editor what is going on here. concern about a whole lot of things including hard landing, recession outright. inflation has been positive. basic economic news retail sales yesterday, factory data getting across the country in all the regions. now add to that slowdown in housing activity and the rest. you have got these guys worried we'll hit a brick wall here. that is not getting in the way of expectations of another rate hike. this time only a quarter of a percent when the fed gathers two-day meeting of this month, on the 1st. we'll likely see that. after that anyone's guess. more on that in a second this is a red-letter day following all the red ink on capitol hill. we run up against your debt limit, akin to running up
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against your limit on a visa credit line. the u.s. is a little bigger maybe than yours, at about $31.4 trillion. edward lawrence at the white house right now where they're talking about preparing for the unthinkable, at least, maybe the unwantable. where does that stand, edward? >> reporter: neil, cue the jackhammer for this but the treasury secretary sent a second letter now today to leadership in congress she will implement those extraordinary measures. they will last through june 5th. we have the first date possibly we could actually reach the debt limit ceiling there. if the u.s. defaults the damage would be clear. it would be more expensive. credit rating would suffer. it would be more expensive to get mon in the future for the federal government. it could put at risk the u.s. is the reserve currency around the world. the argument, if the u.s. cannot pay its obligations why would the dollar be reserve currency.
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leaders say it will not come to that, but some republicans are taking a hard-line. >> we don't have a tax revenue problem. it is clear we have a spending problem. i can tell you one thing here in houston congressional district 38 i represent, my answer is hard no raising debt ceiling. i have a three-week old boy two-year-old old daughter to put this on them. >> reporter: president says you must pay for the spending he signed into law. >> be it clear, there will not be any negotiations over the debt ceiling. we will not do that. it is their constitutional duty. you think about how congress has dealt with the debt ceiling for the past several decades. it is their responsibility, their constitutional
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responsibilitity to act. >> reporter: senior republican aide says the leadership is forming their asks to the president right now. one of the proposals bubbling up, remove a debt ceiling for debt-to-gdp ratio. that is being pushed by representative brian fitzpatrick. basically if you reach the ratio it would trigger reduction in spending over the next five years in discretionary items. we'll see. no final decisions have been made yet, neil. neil: just to be clear, they're looking at this as a multi-month process, right? we're at the limit right now. there are a lot of things you can do to sort of beg and borrow from peter to paul all that stuff for at least into the late spring early summer, right? >> reporter: as if your 401(k) and right up against the credit card limit. you bring the 401(k) down to zero. the u.s. government is not presidenting into certain health, benefit funds for the government. to stretch the money until they absolutely run out of money.
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>> thank you, my friend, edward lawrence on all that. john tamney, real clear markets editor what he makes about this. are you concerned, john? >> no. this is a political device that is what the debt ceiling is. whichever party controls the purse at the time uses it as a hammer to the other side to get a few concessions. we know they will not default. we know the debt limit will be extended. there are bills to pay this is politics, always has been. neil: nevertheless we have a history of bringing this to the brink, ironically in 2011, even though they avoided the brink s&p still downgraded the american debt because of craziness up to the agreement and keeping the government lights on. if we were to get something like that, are markets prepare forked that? are you? >> of course they are. let's remember what happened in 2011. there was the downgrade. what happened to yields in the subsequent months? they actually went down reflecting more valuable
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treasurys. markets yawned what happened in 2011. i will just add this notion that the u.s. has never defaulted laughable. in 1933 we very specifically defaulted. fdr devalued the gold from 1/20 20 to 1/35. that we seen defaults since then. that is not to defend what happened in 33 and since, the notion world would end if we defaulted in technical terms, this is not a serious discussion. neil: having said that default popularly means not making good on a payment to social security recipient or medicare recipient, those holding interest on bonds and notes that sort of thing. we don't make good on that, any one of those, then what? >> well then what? except for we know that is not going to happen. how we know that is not going to happen is the fact that the u.s.
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treasury can borrow at the lowest rates in the world. it can borrow at the lowest rates in the world because we have a revenue problem. by that i mean the whole wants to lend to the country that is backed by the most productive people on earth. this isn't me defending all the government waste. to me government spending is a massive tax but let's not pretend when we extend the debt limit, we will, there won't be lenders investors lined up to invest to the united states. we if we want to reduced debt we take less revenues. paradoxical truth no one wants to seem to acknowledge. neil: very interesting premise, john. and we are the default game in town. not default in the bad term, but money finds us in very volatile times but that used to be the case with the british pound a long time ago. everyone thought it would be a while before something would replace the british pound. of course eventually became the american dollar. are you worried that our heyday
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might behind us though? these type of incidents pile up and there might become alternatives? you heard about china looking at a basket of currencies to compete with the united states. none of that has gone anywhere but i'm wondering whether these precip/10s change that? >> i hope there is competition in the future. do you like how treasury overseen the dollar in the last four or five decades? we've seen substantial devaluation with the dollar during that time. if there is global competition in terms of currencies, government or private money that would be a good thing to get a better performance out of treasury but i don't think this is something new here. i'm not specifically worried about it simply because if you look at what, what is 30 year treasury? a market signal what the investors think the future will be. we don't see the yields
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skyrocketing. that is a market sig that from the investor class, revenues are higher now, they will being exponentially higher in the future making all the debt very easy to pay back. neil: you hope, because debt is piling up in the face of higher rates, cost of it. we'll see how it works out. john tamney. >> appreciate having me. neil: luke lloyd with a different view on this. what do you think john says, don't cheer it but don't fear it. not the end 6 world. >> national debt was 40% of our gdp. now national debt is $31 trillion and 120% of our gdp. our debt essentially tripled relative to gdp in a decade, right? this economy was built on 0% interest rates for a decade straight. the stock market got addicted to government spending. thethe cost of servicing debt hs gone up significantly. there will be some issues.
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we have flee scenarios, spend recklessly, default decades down the road on your debt or keep spending and raise taxes. that is how tax revenue might go up, you raise taxes which is bad for middle class america and future market expectations. number three, we get our actual spending in check, we budget, start paying off our debt which might cause issues with less government spending in the short term because we got addicted to spending and debt but budget, fiscal responsibility is absolute best solution for everybody in the long term so we have to get back to that. neil: luke, you were mentioning our debt, how increased, i always like to explain to people, especially my kids, talk about deficits, dent, how they will pay it back, it is on you, dad doesn't that have long to go, good luck. >> sure you do, neil. neil: we hope. one of the things i find fascinating we owe more than we're worth. as a country i hear what john is saying, the prior guest.
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when you owe more than you have, when you owe more than you're worth, that is not good. i don't know how sustainable that is, or what the market implications are. but that's bad. >> it is not good at all. if we, why do we have to budget and government doesn't have to budget? that is always irritated me my entire life. neil: very good point. >> at the end of the day the government treats our national debt like credit card with no limit. wait until the last minute to sign a paper that renews the credit card to keep spending recollection leslie. i find it really interesting, something important like national debt, debt ceiling in congress, they wait to come to the last minute to come to the resolution. in my opinion, that makes their life easier, sign away, a piece of paper that gives them more money. politicians don't have indebt, debated conversation how and when we'll fix the debt issue so we don't keep raising the limit down the road. the one caveat currently exists
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in regards to the market volatility, why it might become more volatile the next week, biden has a lot of attention on him right now with the corvette papers. i wouldn't diversion away from the attention, extending debt ceiling talk for another week or so. neil: that is a very good thing, the corvette papers. i will pursue that, luke, say it is mind. let me ask you something, you're a young guy. we know reality of our budget. we know with, you know, 2/3 going to entitlements that we have to address entitlements. i'm not saying you take away social security now but you have to make some adjustments in the future, maybe for young gays like you, people younger than you, but we're not doing it. we know the basic math. we know what ronald reagan and tip o'neill were able to do to extend the so called shelf life of social security. they made the tough decisions together. each took hard knocks for that, but it saved the day, or at least bought social security for a couple more decades. i don't see that appetite for
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making structural reform today. >> well, i don't see it happening either because of how big the government has gotten. neil: right. >> but you have to remember you look to the past, things like 401(k) came out, right? it basically took all of the risk off the employee, put it on to the employer. that is essentially what we did for the government. we raised taxes, we have so much tax revenue, gave all of our money to the government to take care of us. they're really bad at doing that. the solution in my opinion, long-term solution, what we get back to, more money in the middle class's pocket directly. whether through lower taxes innovation, capitalism that creates jobs, raises floor of the wages. that is what we got to do, at the end of the day we can't let government keep getting bigger to take care of us. that is not a long term solution. look at any socialistic society in the past collapsed. we're the most socialistic we have ever been. i hope we don't continue down
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this path. at the end of the day we need incentives, innovation, and only way to do that is let free enterprise do it and not the government. neil: we'll pick your train later on in the show. we're down 240 points. luke at a good spin on the papers concerns, of the documents, corvette documents, papers in joe biden's garage, but the battle back and forth to find out who might have looked at that and now word from the secret service saying we know, after this.
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neil: visiting the president delaware home and when, they don't keep a log of that sort of thing but we do know the secret service, since it is the president's home, they're pretty good keeping track who is going in and out. we're told the secret service is ready to provide the visitor records, have access to them, share that information. david spunt following this than anyone. i've been switching around. we thought this was a brief story. we break it to him. this will go on for years, david. he joins us out of the justice
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department. david, explain to me the secret service does keep records might not be a for al log but they know who going in and out. >> reporter: exactly, neil this is no surprise, the commander-in-chief, the really the most powerful person in the world. no surprise the secret service knows who goes in and out the key they're not technically visitor logs, which shows names, dates, who the, who that visitor is visiting i should say. those are maintained by the national archives and records administration or nara but the secret service is willing to share their records with congress if called upon. despite republican objections, the white house maintains there are no official visitor logs as we see at the white house for president biden's wilmington home. they say it's a private residence. he goes there a lot though. the key word is formal.
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the secret service database just depends on the person, on the time they visit the president, or even if they visit the president. some names are stored for 30 days, some are 60 days, some are 90 days. some are there for years. say if somebody stopped in for a dinner party, they might be on a different list than somebody regularly goes to see the president but the point is there is a list. now how long those names stay on the secret service list really just depends. it is hard to give you a specific answer how long those names stay there. but anthony gulimi, chief of communications for the secret service tells fox news, quote, while the secret service does generate law enforcement and criminal justice records for various individuals who may come in contact with secret service protected sites, we'll not comment further because this speaks to means and methods of our protective operations. this is interesting, neil, when biden left the vice president on
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january 20, 2017, he received secret service protection as an ex-vice president for six more months as is standard n july 2017 secret service packed up, he was on his own. it is possible if those documents found in his garage, classified documents were there in wilmington, they would have been there without secret service protection from july 20th, 2017, until early march 2020 when he officially became a protectee again as a presidential candidate. neil, any secret service information while the service insists they will give that information to congress if formally requested, it has to go through many levels, the general counsel at the secret service, secret service is part of the homeland security department, no longer part of treasury where they were for many years so it would be a process but the bottom line if people are concerned who may have been coming and going the service has a pretty good idea who has been in the property, crossed those
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gates, neil. neil: does the national archive have any role here to say, hold on secret service, you can't, since this concerns documents that with documents you can't do anything? i'm just curious? >> reporter: i don't know the answer to that but from what i've gathered just in general talking to officials at the justice department, the secret service would be able to provide information with people that have gone to wilmington and crossed the gate into the property, not necessarily dealing with the documents because we don't know that you know, let's say multiple names have been on a list over the past years. >> right. >> they don't know they were even near the garage where the documents were found. so i don't think so but i can check that out actually and look into it, neil. neil: well i do know that the national archives says it has to consult the justice department before providing any biden-relate the documents to congress. >> reporter: sure. >> i'm wondering if the service might have gotten ahead of its
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skis a little bit to promise it could provide the information if it actually did? it sounds like it did. if the justice department could interrupt that, say, whoa, whoa? >> reporter: another interesting party wilmington is considered totally different category than the white house. neil: right. >> reporter: white house has the official visitor logs. that may be why nara is over the white house, not maybe why, why nara is over white house visitor logs. this is his private residence of the he getting secret service protection because he is the president but i'm not sure there is any mandate where the national archives could step in tell the secret service don't give your own records through congress who has come through the gates of wilmington. neil: you answered a stupid question. >> reporter: not at all.
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i will be on with you at 4:00 at fox news. i will tell you then. neil: david spunt. guy lewis, former u.s. attorney. we were intimating here a lot of checks on the system, who provides what and when. we already know the justice department will not willy-nilly approve the release of documents to say let's say congressional committees. there are at least two before writing off on it. so, getting information, let's say from secret service, will that prove to be a hurdle? >> it will in some respects, neil. great reporting by david. he and you, i think are right in the sense of the doj and the lawyers in main justice will interact with the lawyers in homeland security who oversee the secret service and they will decide among themselves what information can and cannot be produced. you and i talked a few days ago,
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neil, this information was available, just because they don't have, quote, visitor logs, you know, domino's pizza guy can't just show up and come in and out without being checked and fully vetted. we knew that a few days ago. why you and i predicted there would be some kind of a list forth coming from law enforcement. neil: to be fair, guy i think you predicted. i sort of nodded my head when you said it. guy, let me ask you about that. let's say you do have the list, maybe not detailed as a white house log would be, but a list that keeps track of those going to and from the president's home. then the issue becomes, all right, so what do you do with that? it is one thing if it is, the food delivery guy. it is another thing if it is family members or the family members are bringing some of their friends or outside players. what do you hope to glean from that? >> great question. so let's start with the
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proposition, neil, that possessing classified information has to be done by the law. keeping it next to your corvette in the garage is inconsistent with the law. let's start with that. the second proposition that the special counsel will want to look at carefully is who else had access to the delaware home? and unfortunately what is coming out is that hunter biden may very well have had access to the information at a time when the vice president and hunter biden, at least the allegations are, there were either certain improprieties and interactions overseas with hunter's business dealings. to me, neil that will cause the price of poker to go up in d.c. the special counsel will bear
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down to find out who had access to some of these clearly classified documents. neil: the special counsel seems to get first dibs, right? or either of these congressional committees? >> i think the special counsel is going to get first dibs at this. neil: okay. >> the problem is, is it is not just some hey, would you please answer our questions. people are going to be brought in. fbi agents present. they will be told that any information that they're providing may be subject to criminal investigation and perjury charges. so the lawyers are going to be brought in. it is going to slow down everything but, it is a serious, serious matter about the classified information and who had access to it. neil: got. guy, thank you. always learn a lot. guy lewis former u.s. attorney on these developments here and that list the secret service is willing to share, not clear to share it with anybody.
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we'll keep an eye on that. keep an eye on my friends and colleagues kick off a big show. they're at very impressive diner. i get in very early. they were at the diner very early. i'm talking about jackie deangelis, brian brenberg, taylor riggs, stars of "the big money show" coming to the show this coming monday. that is a lot of food they're exposed to for many hours. i hope they don't sell liquor there, by this time of the day it is on sievable they will be trashed. they're professionals. maybe the worst we have to worry about is omlets. we'll go to the diner, getting the latest from them, we'll see who has liquor there and who is feeling it after this. ♪. (fisher investments) in this market, you'll find fisher investments
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♪ neil: third day of losses at corner of wall and broad. for the dow this puts us in negative territory or just barely. s&p 500, certainly nasdaq dodging that for the time-being. those heady january indicator runups we had, a lot of people are optimistic, they could still pan out. can't go up every day. at least for the dow you're technically in the red on the year. let's get a read on that, what will happen to money right now, because the big money is a little smaller money for a lot of folks. i worked off the name of that hot new show that starts right after this network at 1:00 p.m. eastern time. all the hosts are gathered at one place for a diner. that is how i do it, guys. would i be exactly where you are now doing it. jackie deangelis, brian brenberg, taylor riggs, great seeing all of you. brian, good to know you have
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another talent in case that doesn't work out. i'm sure you will. that looks delicious. >> neil, i've been at the diner so long, they're putting me to work. i'm getting a little lunch for taylor and jackie. he trying to earn fay check, they're talking paychecks with guests at the diner. i let them have it. >> i'm here, neil, small business owner, member of the community, so great to have you here with us our light lunch here to start. >> light lunch. >> talk to us, how do feel on the ground? you're here in the community, in the real estate business, how are things going? >> the market is still strong. there is a lull always this time of year, january, february, market is still strong. people are still buying, prices, markets, interest rates are coming back down, they did peak up two weeks ago, low sixes, high-fives, depending on the buyer. there will always be a need. >> how are some supply issues with new home construction?
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are thinks easing up a little bit? >> things are easing up as far as supplies. the docs are opening up. they did have an issue with forklift drivers, things at the docks, but it is easing up. you will wait a few weeks, but it is not like it was during the pandemic. >> jackie, certainly feels like from our perspective, this is more of an optimism tone we heard from some of the guests as well. >> absolutely. we were talking earlier to folks talking to us about rising prices on the ground, how difficult things have been. we talked to a diner owner had to raise prices twice in 2001 one by 5% each time. twice in 202, 5% each time. he is planning another 5% increase. things may be going down with respect to inflation in the washington of the, not necessarily here on the ground. that has people worried. >> egg pricing up 400%. some ways inflation coming down
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and some other ways not coming down quickly as people want. neil: you're at a diner, if you think about it, that is america. did either of you or brian, if he can hear me, find out how it is, look at this. this is amazing. how is it diners can have menus like they do? they have thousands of items. >> that is not cool. neil: they have thousands of items. you order anything, they have it. did they ever tell you how they manage that? >> i never seen portions so big. >> no, it is amazing. the food here is amazing. somebody has to pay the bill. that is what i'm trying to figure out here. is taylor paying for the thing or is jackie paying. you will pay for it. okay. these guys will leave the tip maybe. hoping for a big tip. i will leave it right here for you. neil: very good, guys, tell you, this is analogous what is going on with the whole debt ceiling thing. someone has to pay the bill. looks like everyone in the diner, break it to them lightly
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but it is coming due. guys, great job. i know you've been doing this all day. i just hope they don't extend this to liquor items because, that would be, that would be problematic. but look forward to monday as well, guys. no, no. >> we're pros, neil. neil: you are pros, but the food does look great. "the big money show," starts monday on this fine network, 2:00 p.m. right after this show. by the way, one of the things i think we, 1:00 p.m. i should say. one of the things we should focus on what happens a few hours later at 6:00 p.m., when you have the bottom line with dagen mcdowell, sean duffy. i will be talking to all of these guys back and forth. we bump into each other all the time. what they say they really, really mean. you say we're looking out for you, looking out for you. we don't use jargon. we don't use a lot of acronyms. we don't like to speak like we're academics. it's a smooth move on my part
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because in my case it would be a lie but not in their case. we have your interest at heart. means spending all day at a diner. that is not a bad job and assignment. i will go to the diner monday. maybe, can we do that? done. more after this.
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neil: you know, you just saw that from "the big money show." talking to a home i woulders, someone in that real estate business how rates have come down stabilized. actually they have. 30-year fixed rate mortgage gone down 2/3 of a point in that environment. he is saying that is generating a good deal of interest. we did see that with interest rates going the lowest level we've seen in four months, a lot more mortgage demand building. that was the case. now one week does not a trend make, i wonder what tim root thinks of this, managing director, follows this very
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closely. tim, what do we make we're see on the real estate front with borrowing rates? these are rates the federal reserve cannot control. they could have big influence. things like 10-year note, some of these others, a lot of mortgage rates are pegged to, indeed have come down? what do you think is going on? >> first and foremost, neil, you look fabulous. i can only say we're part of the same club. neil: we do look-a-like. youing look a little classier, my friend, it is weird, isn't it? >> all the way down to the pocket squares. must be like shipping delays. the great hangover of 2022 driven by interest rates for the housing market, seems to be abating a little bit. if you asked me three weeks ago, i would have thought 2023, is basically going to be follow the direction of you know interest rates. if interest rates head up to seven. write off 2023 it will be a mess
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for the housing market. as your screen said we're looking at low 6s, there is brand new enthusiasm for buyers who still have demand and frankly for builders the last 12 months are seeing their confidence falling it is good sign for 2023. neil: last time you and i talked, people with dire predictions, there will be housing crash. i had one guy said it will be like the housing meltdown. i see so many differences where we discussed it at that time, people were buy real estate sight unseen, treat them like chits on a gambling table. none of that is going on now. no lender is not allowing that to go on. i'm not seeing that evaporation or correction. maybe overheated markets but not like a crash what do you say? >> i think you're right, neil. any comparison to the 2008 sort of housing crisis and all that
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is apples to the pineapples. that was based on fraud, speculation and financial engineering. this one is really based on fundamentals. unfortunately one of the big fundamentals in the housing market is supply and demand. you still have the same organic demand that exists but we haven't done a darn thing about the supply side. while the government is doing everything they can to work on the demand side, look, we can subsidize interest rates, look we can expand credit, it is like a seesaw. if you're not working on the other side of this thing, it is completely out of balance if you don't focus how the heck we get more supply? there is no incentives for builders. no incentives from the federal government for states to change zoning, land use laws, that is the link in the chain right now. neil: investment from oppenheimer upgraded builder stocks, notably toll brothers, pulte a few others. i don't know whether that is reflection some got beat down, not all of them.
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reflection between builder sentiment, reality what happened. their ship is coming in again. do you buy that? >> well i do. look, there are recent numbers. if you look at new home market, builder confidence is sliding 12 months. transactions are off 20% year-over-year. you see new starts, pending sales, those are all slipping, even all the way up down to, up to purchase applications for mortgages. all those things in december were kind of leading lower. all of sudden january comes, you have, you know, this renewed optimism around the housing market, not just for buyers but for builders. so i think that look, if interest rates stay around six, heck if they can get below six, you will see renewed enthusiasm from builders. they will work to build more properties, do something to satisfy the demand side. i think the bigger problem right now is you still have, we were talking about the supply on the owner occupied side, you have issue now, dialogue going on with the white house,
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legislators, maybe we need to, rents have been too high. maybe we need to cap rent payments? maybe put rent controls in place. if you're a, you know, capitalism drives people to invest and finance commercial real estate properties. it is not patriotism. so if you're a, if you're an owner, if you're a financier of these rental properties, multifamily apartments, what not, realize, heck, i can't raise rents. by the way you can't even evict, what the heck are we doing in that business? the risk money comes out of the market. the only one who can compete in that there is no economic upside to it is the federal government. so you look like a lot of renting looks like a lot of public housing which seems to be the wrong way to go. neil: twists the market fundamentals. there. tim rood, good to see you, my friend. damper as always, prescient as always. >> good to see you too. neil: controversy over elon musk, he passed up the
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opportunity to go to davos. he said he didn't want to go to davos, said he was invited. they said no, you're not invited. the world's richest man did not end it there after this [coughing] hi, susan. honey. yeah. i respect that. but that cough looks pretty bad. try this robitussin honey. the real honey you love, plus the powerful cough relief you need. mind if i root through your trash? robitussin. the only brand with real honeyand elderberry.
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thing, i was invited but i wouldn't go. i guess they responded we didn't invite you anyway, we're glad you didn't go. it got childish between the elite institutions and one of the world's richest individuals. i called musk the world's richest human being. i think he is second richest. the bottom line he could afford to lose $200 billion and still be one of the richest people on the planet. brings to us lydia hu, also one of the richest people on the planet reading back and forth. good to see you. he is a news makeer, making news. >> i think we need a fact check on my status. neil: you're in there. >> reporter: you're right, there was back and forth between elon musk and the world economic forum, he said declined an invitation to attend, because in his words it sounded boring. the forum spokesperson said musk was not actually invited. we see the tesla ceo throwing
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jabs, calling the world economic forum an unelected world government. that criticism is logged into the a response world economic forum founder and chairman discussing the group's new global collaborationville haj, set up in the metaverse. he is touting it as trustworthy at a time trust in political institutions around the world is low. well in response, you have to see this, neil, musk tweeted a poll yesterday on his own social media platform asking whether the world economic forum should control the world? here you can see more than 2.4 million responses. 86% said no. 14% said yeah. that is interesting. neil: like to know the 14%. they were fine with it, go ahead. >> reporter: me too. among the ultrarich in davos, microsoft executives are catching some heat. they hosted a private performance by music legend sting by only 50 people.
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they did that the night before announcing a round of massive hayoffs impacting 10,000 employees. some are saying hey this is really bad look for the could company. they shouldn't have hosted a huge a-list star when the company is adjusting to worldwide economic concerns. of course concerns of a downturn here. this is not only company announcing layoffs. big banks, like goldman saks, morgan stanley, they have cut jobs, not bank of america. here is brian moynihan the ceo talking with maria bartiromo this morning on his strategy. watch this. >> bring headcount back down. it got too high. the i told the team slow it down. they're doing it. we keep critical staffing and people we need. look we can manage that with 10% turnover rate and 215,000 people. >> reporter: there you have it, neil, they want to slow down on hiring, let numbers of their employees drift back to where they need to be. what is seems like started in
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the tech sector with massive layoffs maybe is not going to be mirrored in the banking sector? we'll have to wait to see how this unfolds. this mixes picture is being discussed in davos right now. neil: maybe sting, he wasn't paid anything? >> reporter: maybe did it for free out of the goodness of his heart? neil: that would not happen. luke lloyd, i have to remind sting who he is. i don't have time. >> i prefer van halen, def leppard, motley crew. neil: there go. they might even have -- when i started thinking, lydia outlined what is going on pretty nicely, they're beginning with relatively small percentages of workers but they keep doing it, right? amazon wants to go beyond the 18,000. only .2 of the workforce but i don't know that level. microsoft is going beyond the level they announced last year which was a few thousand workers. while the percentages are low, they're building again and i'm
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wondering what happens now? is this a signal of something? >> they're trying to get a gauge on how bad the storm is really going to be the next year. nobody really knows, right? they don't want to jump the gun, lay off too many people. want to start doing it slowly. there is the one phenomenon labor hoarding i'm paying close attention to. if you look during world war ii many companies held on the employees with rough patches volatility up and down during the war. i can't imagine how volatile it was during the war. something different is happening with the covid years and craziness. some companies because they want to hold on the top talent because afraid of losing them because of things like the great resignation or poaching from competitors. companies would like to take a beating with the storm coming next year, lay off employees, retrain them, rehire them possibly a year later. you need to remember training
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employees is expensive and timely. companies with strong balance sheets might be less likely to let people go. companies like apple, have a ton of cash on hand. depends on the size of the storm, depends how many people will be let go. i'm in the camp unemployment will rise, not a matter of when, but if. neil: all right. >> if labor market gives the fed excuse to raise rates. neil: it is truncated here. speaking of apple not yet laid off people, not yet. keep and eye on that, the nasdaq is one of the averages safely in the green thus far, even though the s&p is close to giving up the honor and the dow already has. stay with us. ..
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