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tv   FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace  FOX News  November 6, 2011 3:00pm-4:00pm PST

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>> chris: blim cshois for m cu. one candidate looks to make a move. he has the mons. with the frontrunners but does he have the message toit each enouund you voters? we'll talk with congressman ron . >> soul as we contin. if our series of 2012 one on one interviews. it is a "fox news sunl y" exhatusauce. then, a large bipartisan group of congressmen is ul oing the supercommil oiee to go 3 hg in cutting the deficit. we will talk with the leaders of the grou group of 100. north carolina democrat heath schuller and il hoit epublican mike simituon. plus, sexual harassment allef1tionsit en tk herman cs s
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cafics weherm. we will ask the sunday panel if cain can sur to ve the chal oes and keour his candil out d al. and our power player of the week plaron a ks. four years in the election of the president. n jos thbri now on lik sunday." and hello again from fox news in washingtothe p theit our xtlican presidential race intensified this week but for all of the uitu and downs one candil te has held stedeny, raising millions and staying within striking distance of the ledeners. continuing our 2012 one on one series of inter to jos we are joined by texas congresdidan rn paul. n josme back to "f sunda this isit em ka voting isç less than two months away. wasn't to put up a couple of recent polls in the latest des moines register poll third in iowa, 10 points behind cain and romney. in the latest time poll third is south carolina by the same
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margin. we should point out that you won the iowa straw poll yesterday and congratulations on that. how do you expand yourç support? how do you go if being a respectable third to actually winning? >> well, the one thing is, not by changing my message. i've had a message, it has been the same. the message becomes more appropriate everyday. i've talked about our monetary system, our spending, our debt. we are in the midst of a sea change in the world because of the hook for it. we have a dollar reserve standard and the american taxpayer the hook. it is moving in this direction in the news everyday we spend too much and my message is, cut spending. not raise taxes. change the opinion about what government should do. spending cuts not like the others tinkering on the edges. i want aç trillion dollar cut in the first year to show
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spend something the problem. >> chris: we'll get to that in a minute. it was the illinois straw poll. >> i'll take both of them. >> chris: you almost woné÷ythe iowa straw poll. many conservatives say they like your views on less spending, smaller government, adhering to the constitution. but, the problem they have, the bridge toóç far is foreign policy. they are upset with what they view as isolationist views especially fighting the war on terror. >> i think that is a false charge about isolationism. it is when you put on tariffs and protectionism and you don't want to trade with people and mine is the opposite. mine is very open.ç i don't want troops around the world, because i think it hurts our national defense by having too many troops it helps bankrupt our country. the wars we've been fighting that were under claired from my viewpoint, illegal and --
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unconstitutional. in the last 10 years this foreign expenditures around the world has contributed four trillion dollars worth of our debt. we can change that.ç but, i think we are better off our national is better off by a different foreign policy. >> chris: for instance, drones. a lot of people say the drones have been effective, they've taken out a lot of al-qaeda leadership. it doesn't involve putting troops on the ground. it is cheap. as i say it doesn't involve a lot of manpower. and it doesç strike very deadly in its effectiveness. why are you against drone strikes? >> because i don't agree with that assessment. i think it makes things worse. if you have one bad guy and you go after him and he's the one he's an al-qaeda leader8íx let's kill him. sometimes they miss. sometimes there's collateral damage. every time we do that we develop more enemies areç dropping a lot of drones in pakistan, claim we've killed
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so many. how about the innocent people? nobody hears about that. this is why the people of pakistan can't stand our guts and why they disapprove of their own government. we are bombing pakistan trying to kill people, making mistakes, building up our enemies and giving billions to the government of pakistan and weç are more or less inciting a civil war there. i think that makes us less safe. for every one you kill you probably create 10 new people who hate our you gos and would like to do us harm. >> chris: -- do you think the allegations against herman cain are relevant in this campaign? >> allegations against his program his liking the federal reserve andç his national health, legitimate and his support for bailouts those allegations are legitimate. those other allegations, these problems now, i think the media has blown that way out of proportion. i think there are a thousand
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stories out there i think that dilutes the real debate. his fuse onç foreign policy are drama -- his views on foreign policy are dramatically different than mine. he believe ms. the bailout and federal0ç reserve. i think that's what we should be talking about. -- i don't like these distractions. >> chris: let me ask you one question more. speaking as a practical politician, do you think they help you? do you think tiuy may get some of his supporters to take a second look at you? >> there's a cycle going on here. i don't think that in particular. we've seen sudden surges of candidates and then they fall off again. i think all of that is helpful to me. but not specifically because there's been these challenges. i think when people get to know what herman stands for, i think that helps me.'3 because they are not going to say, he's not really for any cuts. and he's for adding this
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national sales tax. yes, that helps me a lot. >> chris: let's talk about ron paul stands for. specifically, your new plan to restore america. here it is, you call for cutting the federal budget as you just said by one trillion dollars roughly 25% of the budget in the first year. youç say you would balance the budget in three years. spending would be 15.5% of gdp three years that's the last time it was that low was 1951. question, even the conservative american enterprise institute says those kinds of dramatic short term cuts would send this country back into a recession. >> that's exactly what they said after world warç ii and cut the budget 60%. and they cut taxes 30% and released 10,000 -- 10 million from the military and we had an economic boom for the first time since the 20s. you shouldn't fear freedom and free market and letting
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people the money rather than the government. that doesn't mean money isn't going to be spent. i means individuals areç going to spend it. maybe -- it means individuals are going to spend it. maybe individuals would invest again and building automatics. it is where the money is spent that is so important. it is not like we take it away we put it into productive use. government spends it is nonproductive it goes into bureaucracies, regulations. it goes into subsidizing corporations that don'tç deserve to be subsidized. it goes to bailing out people that is wasteful spending. that damages the economy. you want the money to be spent by individuals and business people, not the government. >> chris: we would both agree there are some legitimate functions that government can perform that no one else can. let me ask you about many so of your cuts which may be more m%19ñ you would reduce funding for the national institutes of health by 23%. you would reduce funding for
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the centers for disease control by 38%. what specific programs would you cut congressman? >> i would try to wean ourselves off these are functions that are not properly authorized by our government. >> chris:ç wait. you don't think the government has a role in trying to do research to try to find answers to new diseases or diseases -- no, i don't --. if there is an epidemic sweeping the world? >> if it is until yes and people coming in, yes when it is r & d and how money shouldç be spent, u it is spent for political reasons rather than market reasons when that happens, the lobbyists come in and line-up and special drug companies the drug companies are very much in favor of this. but the decisions are made by politicians and bureaucrats rather than the marketplace. you want more r & d and it
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would be better directed if investors and the marketç makes these decisions. believe me, the politicians and the bureaucrats aren't smart enough to know what you should be investing in and which immunity you have to all these decisions are made, when government makes a mistake it hurts everybody. if a business makes a mistake it hurts only that company. this reliability on government to make stkeurbgss that are better made in the economy is what weç have for 150 years. we only had this idea that government has to be the vehicle for making significant economic decisions. this is rather new. and to think that the and corporations make these decisions, there's nothing wrong with that. >> chris: let's turn to iran. there's growing fear around the world and there is going to beç a new iaea report this next week that the country is getting closer to a nuclear break-out as it is called.
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where it would have all the elements, all the skills to assemble a nuclear weapon. would president paul do anything to stop iran from developing a nuclear weapon? >> only by a changeç ináyr forn policy and treating them differently. the one thing i would caution is an overreaction. if you say is true they've been saying that for 10 years or so, so it may or may not be true. you are saying they have items and they might some day put a weapon together. the worst thing is an overreaction and go to war over this. thisç week our committee passed a very very strong sanctions bill against iran. which means that even any other country even if an ally does any trading with iran w he are going to punish them. when you put on strong sanctions those are acts of war. we did that in iraq for 10 years. little kids died, couldn't get
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medicines and food, it leaddq= war. i would say treat them kinkly, it would be -- them differently and it would be less threatening. don't put sanctions on them. >> chris: how are we going to persuade them not to develop a nuclear weapon? >> maybe offering friendship. didn't we salk to the -- didn't we talk to the soviets and the chinese?ç they had thousands of these weapons. i was in the military during the 60s it was dangerous. we didn't think we had to attack the soviets. they had capabilities. the iranians can't make enough gasoline for themselves. for for them to be a threat to us or anybody in the region is just blown out of proportion. people are anxious to use violence against the iranians. i think it would;hundermine our security. i think it would be destructive to the -- to israel, because this is going to blow that place up. it is not like a change over a
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government in egypt or some place like that which is always a negative because they are reacting to our foreign policy >> chris: finally, there is speculation and i understand you are running for the gop nomination there is speculation if2you don't win you might run as a third party independent candidate can you say flatly that you will support the republican nominee in the off chance that it isn't ron paul? >> you know, probably not unless i get to talk to them and find out what they really believe in. if they believe in expanding the wars. plooking at the federaln reserve. if they don't believe in real cuts. if they don't believe in deregulations and a better tax system, it would defy everything i believe in. so therefore, i would be reluctant to jump onboard until all the support who have given me trust and money, say all we've done is for naught. just support anybody at allç,
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because even if they disagree with everything we do. >> chris: does that mean you might consider an independent run? >> no, it does not mean that. >> chris: would you? >> i have no intention of doing that. that doesn't make sense to me to even think about it, let alone plan to do that. >> chris: because? >> because i don't want to do it. that'sç a pretty good reason. >> chris: you answer the right there. congressman paul always a pleasure. thank you. see o'you on the campaign trail. >> up next -- i like that i just don't want to do it. the two congressmen leading the bipartisan group of 100 that wants the super committee to go big when it comes to cutting the deficit. big when it comes to cutting the deficit. [ female announcer ] need help keeping your digestive balance?
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. i have great respect for each of you individually. but collectively, i'm worriedç you're gonna fail. fail the country. >> chris: erskine bowles co-chair of the debt commission sounding the alarm that the congressional super committee will fail to meet its deadline to find 1.trillion in deficit cuts. 100 members of congress representing both calling for the super committee to go big and cut theç national debt by four trillion. joining us the congressman leading the group of 100 north carolina democrat heath shuller and congressman mike simpson. welcome. let's start with the letter that your group, 60 democrats,
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40 republicans sent to the super committee this week. here is the key sentenceç to succeed all options for mandatory and discretionary spending and revenues must be on the table. congressman simpson, will you support more revenues either from raising tax rates or cutting deductions, closing loopholes as part of a plan to cut the deficit? >> you have to. the reality is, you cannot get to four trillion withoutç including additional revenues. we might have different ideas about what those revenue was look like. i think you could get additional revenues by lowering tax rates and i think you would have an economic boom in this country and the revenue would come into the federal government. more revenue is key. >> chris: when you say would you take some of the money%,5ázs the bowles-simpson commission did and use that for deficit reduction, you wouldn't make
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it revenue neutral? >> it has to if you are going to get to four trillion everybody agrees you have to get to four trillion to stabilize our debt and start decreasing the deficit. >> chris: two points, grover norquist, a name which i'm sure you areç familiar head of americans for tax reform has a pledge that you and all about six house republicans have signed to oppose any net increase in taxes exactly the opposite of what you just said. i want to play what house speaker boehner said this week. >> our conference is opposed to tax hikes because we believe tax hikes will hurt our economy and put americans out ofç work. >> chris: how many house republicans do you think will follow you, are willing to break their pledge and frankly, put their political futures at risk to make this deal? >> well first the pledge. i signed that in 1998 when i first ran i didn't know i was signing a marriage agreement
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that would last forever. i think at the majority of members of congress understand to have additional revenue. if you look at the percentage of the gdp that comes into the government now it is about 14%, to 15%, traditionally been 18% in that neighborhood. revenue coming into the government has decreased as a percentage of gdp and expenditures that used to be around 19% are up around 25%. we have to bring knows closering together again. >> chris:ç that brings me to congressman shuller will you support real cuts and entitlements, raising eligibility eligibility age, as part of the deal to cut the deficit and accept the deal that the presidential commission offer which was 3-1 spending cuts to tax increases? >> i think !wles-simpson report not only reflects the members of congress feel about the program but what the rest of the world is look at america to say are you going
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to make these significant cuts? when it comes to entitlements it has to be on the take. >> chris: you say revenue. i must say mike simpson said he would support it. would you support it? >> absolute order tosafe these programs they have to more sustainable -- and get rid of fraud and because. >> chris: do you think president obama going around the country blaming a do-nothing congress and making it sound as if all you need is get millionaires and billionaires pay more in tax do you that i is constructive? >> far often we've seen how politicsç played in washington especially the closer we get to presidential elections. the most important thing we can do is come together as mike and another 100 members and adding every single day to that list work together to make sure that our debt and deficit spending that we've been having over the last decade, doesn't continue. that we have a more
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sustainable path for our future. we put the nextç generation in a situation where they are not having to pay everything. every dollar we borrow is a tax on the next generation. >> chris: do you think what the president is doing these days is constructionive or not? >> it would be much more helpful if the focus was on what he could do and the support that he could give the super committee. the problem you have is the politics if he supports the super committee or one way thatç pushes some of my colleagues on the other side in the opposite direction in one sense, if he is on the sidelines and allow the members of the congress to continue to grow, in our numbers and support the super committee to do something big, four trillion plus, mike and i would like to have more closer to five or six trillion dollar mark and put everything on the take. >> chris: you both have phefrpbgsed)it. the super committee's charge is to come up with 1.2 trillion dollars in deficit reduction by the day before thanksgiving. but both of you have talked
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repeatedly about four trillion. why isn't 1.2 trillion enough? >> that does not stable light the debt and start paying down our deficit. it is kicking the can down the road and we are out of road. no matter what theç committee comes up with it is going to be a difficult vote for every member of congress. there's going to be part of it they don't like. the reality is if i'm going to make a difficult vote, i want it to mean something. i don't want it to be kicking the can down the road. >> chris: congressman shuller for all of this talk your group is growing, the fact s i think the prevailing sense, the conventionalç wisdom in washington now is the super committee is deadlocked. in fact, the greatest chances are they are not going to come up with any deal before november 23rd. before we get to whether that is real or not. what do you think the impact will be if the super committee comes up empty on the economy, on the markets, on the credit
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rating for this country? >> it would be devastating tóç our country not only would it look as if the congress is more dysfunctional than it already is. but the whole world is watching that we are going to be able to come up with something that is big. having the support of 100 members and the 45 members in the senate. not only bipartisan, this is a bicameral way we can say we have your back. we know you have to makeç difficult decisions and choices that is going to impact us here but what is happening all over the world. we need to continue to be the leaders of this the way we do that is those 12 members need more than just our 100 members in the house. we need to increase that number everyday. we need more members of congress to join us. >> chris: your thoughts congressman simpson about the impact if the super committeeç doesn't meet that november 23rd, deadline? >> as he said, the whole world is watching this. i think the market starts to tank if this have committee
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does not come up with something. i think they are looking -- the markets will either correct the situation or we will. i think the economy will suffer greatly and the american people will suffer greatly. who is going to suffer the most?ç whenever the economy goes down it is those that are less well off. we have to do something. the tough thing i know this sounds ridiculous and everything else. we've got to put aside our elections. we've got to put aside republican and democrat. we've got to put aside politics and do what is right for the country this is one time where i think it is critical. we've got one chance to fix this. this is that cagce. >> chris: it is impressive that's why we are having you on the program. 100 members signing this, 60 democrats, 40 republicans is a big deal. there doesn't seem to be a sense -- maybe i'm missing something, do you really sense there is a growing move? the general opinion, i think the conventional wisdom is,
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this isn't going to get done.ç they may get to the 1.2beyond, they are not going to make a bargain republicans are not going to give up on taxes. democrats aren't going to give up on serious entitlement reform. >> we didn't want to put pressure. we wanted to show them there is support out there to do something big. getting 100 members of congress to sign anything is almost impossible now we have 103, moreç are looking at it. i think you will see that number grow. as i tack to people, even people that didn't sign -- as i talk to people, even people that didn't sign this letter know it is the right thing to do. >> chris: republicans have been strong about opposing the revenue, do you think -- how many republicans do you think would go along -- >> i couldn't give you a number. i believe there is a majority inç congress of republicans and democrats on a bipartisan bay is. that's the most important thing if you look at any time this country has had a problem the solution has been a bipartisan solution.
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if it was a republican-only sort of proposal, it wouldn't work and it wouldn't go anywhere. democrat-only proposal wouldn't go anywhere. it has to be bipartisan. >> chris: you said you didn't want to putç pressure on the super committee. congressman schuler they are deciding this issue and they have 2 1/2 weeks. an this point the 12 members are seen largely as agents of the congressional leadership. the leaders who an point them. should the members -- break with the leaders, act as independent agentsç, make the bargain and let the political chips fall where they may? >> i agree that mike and i would have been good options to have on the superintendent committee. >> chris: there maybe a reason why -- [ talking over each other ] >> but, the reality s you now have over 100 in the house, statesmen and women, and in the senate, who are tacking in
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aç way that gives them that support. and that is the reason for letter to say we have your back, we know it is tough. it gives them the opportunity to break from that leadership role. they were appointed by our leadership that's not a reflection of the u.s. and not a reflection what is true in our congress. we have to see more of the middle of the road, theç tuesday group, the blue dog members, continue to step forward. because we represent 80% of america. >> chris: congressman simpson, should the super committee members break with the leader? should they act independently? >> they need to do what is in the best interests of the country if you look at recent comments of speaker boehner, he hasç suggested revenue can be on table that it is going to be part of the solution. >> chris: you heard him say tax hikes no. >> there's a difference. >> nobody is in favor of increasing tax rates.
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but we are in favor of increasing revenue, we have to increase revenue. i think speaker boehner wants a big deal. he tried to negotiate one with the president earlier on the debt ceiling limitç that didn't come about. but i know in speaking with him, he wants to solve this problem. >> chris: gentlemen we have to leave it there. thank you both so much. we'll stay on top of this story. >> thank you. >> chris: next e herman cain accused of sexual ha hasment but stays on top of the polls and in-- harassment, but stays on top of the polls and increases fundraisingç. we'll ask our sunday group what is going on, when we come right back.
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they can't argue with herman cain on the merits. they can't argue with herman cain on policy to what do they do? >> unless you cow to yo tow tod order you will be lynched, destroyed caricatured rather than hung from a tree. >> chris: that is a new add for herman cain linking his troubles to what clarence thomas went through. jijoining us on the panel is pl
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gigot. evan bai, bill kristol from the weekly standard and fox news political and list on juan williams. he is still pied in polls taken since the story broke. and in fact his fund raising has gone up. what is going on? >> i think the american people particularly the republican primary voters have no love lost on the media so they treat with ken tickism the reports -- step tickism the reports in the media. they know some of the accusations are not the same as fact and know that businesses routinely settle these kinds of cases because they don't want to absorb the reputational risk. the accusation is not a fact and people are waiting to see how he handles it and then they will react and how this all figures in to his ability to become president. that said, i don't think this has h helped him.
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i don't think this is something that you want to have happen as a candidate and the question i would ask is why if you knew the settlements were out there, which they were, these were facts, never mind the accusations, he knew it and he didn't prepare noor eventuality that they would come out. he should have disclosed them himself, get it out of the way early. what are you going to do, have this come out if you get the nomination after labor day when you are nominee? what would republicans think then. i don't think it reflects well on his crisis management or on how well prepared he is to be president. >> chris: i want to put up a couple of polls and get you to react to them. when asked whether the sexual seriousnt charges are cirrus matter, 39% said yes and 55% said no. amonging strong tea party supporters even more lopsided, 75% to 20. a new reuters poll finds the number of republicans who view
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cain favorably dropped from 6% last week to 57% now. senator bai, what do you make of that? >> if i were a republican strategist i would be a little worried about this. clearly starting to see the first signs of slippage among even republicans and it is clear that he still resonates with the tea party. but when you look at the in dean pendents and moderates and women swing voters he is taking on some water there. that means in a general election he would be a damaged candidate. i don't think he will ultimately be the nominee. it does raise another issue and that is will the element in the republican party that brought us kristine o'donnell in delaware or in colorado or nevada or alaska will very this an impact on the republican nominating process and insist conditions that make it more difficult for them to win in a general election. what about mitt romney. you saw the rise and fall of donald trump. the conservatives didn't go to
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romney. michele bachmann. didn't go to romney. rick perry. still didn't go to romney. now, you have h herman cain taking on the baggage and still doesn't go to romney. will he have the ferrar fervent support of the republican base that you need to win. right now it looks like an iffy proposition. >> chris: herman cain clashed with reporters when they continued to ask him about the allegations after an appearance in texas. >> we are getting back on message. end of story. back and message. read all of the other accounts. read all of the other accounts where everything has been answered. end of story. we are getting back on message, okay? >> chris: how about republicans. we saw this in the add from the beginning but i h heard it from a lot of conservatives linking the allegations against caine to what clarence thomas went through and the clear implication if not the open
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statement is this is the way the left goes at conservative blacks. >> i don't think it is that comparable to what justice thomas went through. anita hill showed up ten years later to attack clarence thomas, not having filed any complaints at the time. there was no record of any one having complained about thomas in a series of executive branch and judicial positions. these ever complaints filed con contemperaneously. he is not going to be the nominee. he was never going to be the nominee. the is support for support for him was a of conservative and republican distrust of some of the front-runners. willingness to reward someone for being bold for having3 comprehensive reform plans for being an outsider. i think the air is slowly
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going to go out of the herman cain bubble regardless of the sexual harassment charges. >> chris: juan? >> i think he's been the pinata for the black liberal establishment now for a good while. they see him as some kind of ind of token put out by the tea party as an acceptable kind of black to the republicans. i think it has thoroughly insulting. harmful to him as a human being and disrespectful of the people say he will not be the nominee. i never thought he would reach this point. but people on the republican side especially tea party folks see him as authentic and that is exactly what they don't see in terms of flip flops that come from some of the other republican candidates. so, i think that the thing that worries me is now that this is a way that you can crag drag him down and i think it is insulting to herman cain and, of course, it then led to questions is this attack coming from the left, the people who
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said he is a bad apple among black people, he is on the crack pipe, unbelievable. it is analogous, the idea that you go after conservative blacks or conservative women in this way. i don't like it. i think people challenge the orthodox, as i said my worry is that this is a way that people and this is what herman cain apparently thinks, people in the perry campaign or romney campaign found an effective way to go after him as a black republican. >> chris: i want to pick up and juan's point, paul, about his appeal in the party. because even before this last week he had remarkable ability to -- i thought to withstand problems. he had the misstatement about abortion. he was able to get through that. he has had some fairly dramatic gaps in his knowledge about foreign policy and able to get through that. i wonder seems the republican voters are willing to cut him some slack because they see him
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as an outsider, as authentic, as not a career politician and right now that really carries you a pretty long way in the republican primary vote. >> i agree with that. he is the repository of everything people don't like about politics. he doesn't speak like a politician. he has a relaxed comfortable manner. willing to say things rather than in a scripted way. with mitt romney people are telling me i wish he would just mess h his hair up. you know, with cain he doesn't mind kind of mocking the idea of expertise. i think he can take that too far. ultimately when you get into the voting booth people want somebody who knows something about the world. >> chris: we only have 30 seconds left. do you take him seriously as a possible nominee? >> i think that he doesn't really think -- he didn't think he would get this far. and that is the problem. i don't think he was prepared for this and i think that that really in my mind is going to wear with the mind of the
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republican primary voters in the end and they are probably not going nominate him. >> chris: we have to take a break. when we come back, growing speculation that israel will take out iran's nuclear program [ male announcer ] this is lara. her morng begins with arthritis pain. that's a coffee and two pills. the afternoon tour begins with more pain and more pills. the evening guests arrive. back to sore knees. back to more pills. the day is done but hang on... her doctor recommended aleve. just 2 pills can keep arthritis pain away all day with fewer pills than tylenol. this is lara who chose 2 aleve and fewer pills for a day free of pain. [ female announcer ] get money saving coupons at
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they believe rightly or wrongly that a nuclear armed iran poses an threat to the state of israel. i don't think there is any doubt that a nuclear armed iran tips the scales in the middle
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east in a very serious fashion. >> chris: senator john mccain defending israel as it considers whether to it launch a preemptive strike against iran. we are back with the panel. surprising amount of talk out of israel this week that iran -- that israel has tested a long-range missile that could strike iran, that it has had exercises long-range air strikes and that t might speculation, open speculation that is might attack iran's nuclear program. question for you, bill kristol. do you think that they are really considering this or this is a lot of huffing and puffing because they are trying to scare the west into imposing tougher sanctions? >> i discounted the talk earlier this week partly because i think there is a certain bluffing and the israeli media is even more unreliable than the american media. when the israeli prime minister said i think it was friday that the possibility of a military attack against iran is now closer to being applied than it
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had been before he is the president of israel, he is a very respected senior eler statesmen, not a guy who simply threatens military action at the top of a hat by any means. i think israel is serious thinking about whether they can live with a nuclear iran. incidentally u.s. presidents and secretary of states of both parties who said an iran with nuclear weapons is not acceptable. it seems to me the united states has the obligation to act and not leave it to israel to stop this threat to any kind of peace or progress in the middle east. >> chris: juan, what is your sense of what is going on in israel, this usually if they are are going to strike there is absolute radio silence beforehand. not a lot of talk in the papers. >> the difference here is i think at the moment we have. iaea report coming out. >> chris: the u.n. nuclear watch dog. >> right. and there is opposition forming to even the publication of the report by people who want to limit the idea of u.n.
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sanctions, further sanctions against iran and this is primarily the russians and the chinese. and they have interests there and i think that the reason that the israelis are being very clear about this is that they think that the report indicates according to sources that there has been more development of nuclear weaponry and preparations for it in iran than was previously known. so it is not that they are just thinking about it and modeling it but that they may actually have something about to come online. if that is the case then, i guess israel would see it as more of a purposeful and direct threat, immediate threat to their existences. in terms of the united states, i think the united states role here is not -- i would not say the united states should go in and do it themselves. if israel does it who is going to back up israel, the united states military. >> but israel doesn't want to do this if they don't have to. >> and israel can't. >> chris: go ahead, paul. >> they realize the cost of this are not nothing. if they do this it is very risky. i will think in the end they will if the united states shows
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it won't do anything and that is what i think perez is saying. trying to look at whether the americans finally are serious about doing something and so far i would say the obama administration has not been serious at all. we had an asas assasination plt discovered and the president said there would be consequences? what consequences? we have decided to pull out entirely of iraq which helps iran. is not a message of deterrences to iran. >> you can't argue guy to the extent we are bogged down in iraq and afghanistan it limits our are flexible to be more aggressive with iran. number one, if a technical standpoint, the israelis may be able to launch a one off strike on iran but they don't have the ability for the kind of sustained bombing campaign it would really take to degrade the new arsenal. the odds of hitting that in a single strike aren't high. you would have to bomb it for several weeks in a row and there is only one country that
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has that kind of capability and that the united states. for us it raises the issue is the iranian state a normal nation state that is belligerent and does stuff we don't like that ultimately is not suicidal and can be deterred or are they suicidal and would use nuclear weapons even if it meant a nuclear attack against them? >> i think the odds are they are not a suicidal. but the question is if you are israel can you afford to run that risk. probably not. which raises the third point. if even if you work through that analysis, the saudis are going to immediately seek nuclear weapons which sets off an arms race throughout the middle east which means for tuscaloosa may be better to stop that before it gets started by using limited force to prevent iran from going nuclear when it gets right down to it. >> chris: do you see any sign, though, getting to paul's point that the obama administration
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worried about oil markets and the world economy is prepared for all the blowback of a military action and as you said a sustained military action against iran? >> not at this moment. i think they are trying to defer the home of reckoning. ultimately it will come. we have to ask is a nuclear iran acceptable. in there is only one way to keep that from coming about and that is the use of force. >> chris: bill, you just came backing from a week in afghanistan traveling all over the country. what is your sense of what is going on there and what about these reports that we got in the last few days in the "wall street journal" that the obama administration is exploring a shift from a primary combat lead role to more of a secondary advisory role? what do the commanders on the ground think of that? >> the commanders anticipate such a shift and welcome such a shift in 2014 which is when it is supposed to happen. the one message we got
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consistently. >> chris: the report said that it was going to be sped up and be next year, 2012. >> that i think would be disasterrous. the president has already put things at risk by his withdrawal down to 16,000 troops in october of 2012. the message from the american military commanders and diplomats from afghan, friendly friends in the afghan government was that if we can hold that 68,000 level through 2013 continue the kind of insurgency operations, work on the handover to the of a gone forces in an orderly way and not in an excessively rapid way that was a winnable war and that was the message that i took away. it is incredibly impressive what our troops and soldiers and marines are doing there. the highlight is going out and seeing the areas they recently cleared at some considerable cost. but really there is a disconnect between the impression here in washington which is that it is hopeless. it is a tough place and difficult government to work with. we page huge progress.
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we took the fight to them and attacks actually on our troops and friendly. >> kimberly: good afternoon troops are down by over a quarter year-over-year. even though people expected an increase in attacks since we have been on the offensive with the surge troops. the president took a risk by drawing down the surge troops too quickly. the disaster would be if he took another risk in 2012 and show that we are drawing down more in 2013, i think that could be the tipping point and difference between success and defeat. >> chris: and literally in 20 second hass about the karzai government? >> difficult to work with. we spent some time with ambassador prosser. he works with the karzai government in afghanistan. he deserves an extremely lavish retirement package when comes back here. >> thank you all. see you next week. check out panel plus where our group picks right up with the discussion on our website we will post the video before noon eastern time. up next, our power player of
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we can never thank them enough.
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there have been 35 presidential and vice presidential debates since 1960. >> there have been 35 debates, one man has been after election. he is our power player of the week. >> every move you make, every word you speak could affect the outcome not only of the debate but of the president of the united states. >> jim blair is talking about the high stakes of presidential debates and he should know. >> good evening at the university of massachusetts in boston. >> chris: he has moderated 11 them. he was a sole questioner once.
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>> it's really tough stuff. >> now he looks back at the 11 debates over the presidential elections in a new book called pension city. >> not just for the candidates but for the moderator. >> absolutely. i related walking down the blade of a sharp knife and any moment you could cut yourself. >> he agonizes over an error he made over his first debate 23 years ago when he mistakenly told president bush that his time was up. >> mammogram i can words, he is right. you are wrong. >> i'm wrong my apology. >> you said nobody is perfect. >> everybody cares about this electing is watching. i wanted to drop in the hole and
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stay there. >> for 36 years he has been the unflappable anchor of evening newscasts. >> i'm jim lehr in aware. >> chris: he as cam up with several theories. >> it's never about the moderator. you are talking about the moderator when it is over with. it is positively or negatively but in my opinion the moderator has failed. >> the key is to get them talking to each other. >> even when the rules prohibits -- >> he says there is another rule. no matter how fair you try to be. the moderator will always get criticized. >> you have a apple question for one, you better have a question for the other, too, some people are going to perceive you unfair no matter what.
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>> he remarkably boyish looking 77. he stepped down of as anchor. >> there is time to step down from the process and that time has arrived. >> for the third time he says he has finished moderating debates. this time he insists he means. >> it thank you and good night. >> of all the things i have done it's the most exhilarating experience i think i have ever have when they are over. i feel like i have accomplished something that matters and it's good for my country. that is the truth. i did it reasonably well. >> chris: indeed, he did. how did he be the dean of moderators. he would love to say he is so brilliant but he says often the candidates couldn't agree on anyone else. have a great week. we'll see you back here next fox news sunday.


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