captioned by closed captioning services, inc. >> chris: i'm chris wallace. three days and counting f >>chris: three days and counting for the congressional super committee. can they make a deal in or will political obstacles derail the attempt to cut our national debt? we will hear from two members of the committee, republican co-chair and the democrat only on fox news sunday. and what would a stalemate mean for the financial markets? and would the u.s. credit rating get another downgrade? we ask moody's we top economic adviser to both parties and gingrich rises to the most dangerous place in politics: the top of the republican field. we will ask our sunday panel if the former speaker can hold on

where others have failed. and, as we approach thanksgiving, our power player of the week takes me dancing with turkeys. all right now. on fox news sunday. hello, again, from fox news in washington. after months of secret talks and public posturing we are now in the end game for the have committee. will they make a deal by wednesday to cut the deficit by $1.2 trillion over the next decade in a moment we will talk with a key democrat on the committee buts, first, the republican co-chair. welcome back to o news sunday. so, question, is this thing dead? >>guest: nobody wants to give up hope. reality is to somextent, starting to everfake hope. there were 12 good people who invest add lot in this trying to find common ground to achieve the goal of the committee, so,

talks have taken place over the weekend and they will continue to take place but the reality is, we need to come to an agreement and we have to get it drafted and it has to be estimated by the congressional budget office, and by the end of monday. so, it is a daunting challenge. no doubt. >>chris: is there any sign out there that either republicans or going to make a big concession or democrats are going to make a big concessions? you got over 24 hours, now, to make a big concession that will break the logjam. >>guest: we not doing to give up hope. we will not give up hope. >>chris: but? >>guest: we will not give up hope. >>chris: this is a big missed opportunity? >>guest: i agree. the nation is facing a debt crisis, facing a jobs crisis, and the two are interrelated. and we all necessity, even the president will admit the great drivers of debt are medicare, medicaid and health care and nothing else is close and he is right. i give him an a for stating that

for courage. but we have not seen in the talks from the other side, any democrat willing to put a proposal on the technology that actually solves the problem. so, unfortunately, what we have particularly in medicare, a program where seniors are going to start seeing forms of rationing, seen yours leak my -- seniors like my parents. here was an opportunity, republicans put forth a plan in our budget and it was rejected by democrats and we gave them a bipartisan plan, and that was drafted by democrat, rivlin, the director of office of management and budget preserves fee for service medicare option. that was rejected. to their credit, some of the democrats were willing to put some aspects of health care on the table, but, at best it would

kick the can down the road and part of the rob was on your show last week, where congressman clyburn said the democrats have not coalesced around a position so it is hard for us when they are negotiating themselves. >>chris: but i want to make it clear at this point is there any effort, is there going to be a final last ditch republican plan? a new offer? >>guest: chris, there are multiple offers. >>chris: a new offer? >>guest: if, there are frameworks out there now, and know we have an opportunity to work on one of those frameworks, the answer is, yes, there are multiple frameworks but only one came to the attention of the media. but there are frame works are out there. the time is late. we understand it. but we have not given up hope. there a jobs crisis. and we hope and we thought this

could be common ground for fundamental tax reform and that could help create jobs and make the tax code fairer, simpler, and more competitive and broaden the base, and bring down everybody's rate and keep current levels of progressiveness so people depend on their income bracket pay the same percentage of taxes and there have been studies by the national borrow row of economic research that could create over half a trillion of pro growth revenue, and some show it could create a million jobs. >>chris: are you saying this is all the democrats' fault? >>guest: i am not saying it is anybody's fault. you have people who have very different views, frankly, of what it means to produce, what it takes to produce jobs and to produce economic growth. it is not about assigning blame, but, we are unaware of any democratic offer that didn't include at least $1 trillion tax officer on the american committee. now, again, that is not a matter

of blame. but it is a matter of fact we believe that is bad for the economy. >>chris: let me pick up on that and we will talk with a democrat congressman about entitlements on what they were willing and not willing to do. the fact is republicans, they say, republicans would not grow to a sizable increase in taxes especially on the wealthy because even the toomey plan, yes, it would do away with deductions but it was going to have a 20 percent reduction if the tax rate, not only would the bush tax rates be extended but there would be a 20 percent reduction to 28 percent and the result would be a huge tax wind fall for the wealthy. >>guest: i disagree. this is the same approach naviry other bipartisan plan put on the table. simpson-bowles or rivlin and we have $1 trillion of so-called "tax expenditures," in the code and we want to take out the

loopholes and the special interest provisions so, again, you are broadening the base. you keep the current rates of progressiveness, so, by definition, you cannot have a tax cut for the wealthy. that is just not what happens. what i want to do, i am not trying to tax the wealthy into oh believe beyond but with like to take away the bailouts and subsidies and take away the special interest deductions but most importantly, i want to create jobs for the american people and i don't understand the economics that say if we raise taxes on my employer or my boss that they will go out and hire my unemployed where in law. >>chris: and now, quick questions, and quick answers. how will this end? there is talk that you will have a formal meeting on wednesday and you open up your plan, and you vote it down and they open up their plan, and you vote it down and then you and the other co-chair will say "it's over."

>>guest: i don't know. again, people have invested so much in this, nobody wants to give up hope. so, i can't answer that question. and until, again, we have the stroke of midnight, i suppose, on monday, as long as we have members who have an opportunity to continue to talk we will continue to talk. >> do you see any point in a formal meeting on wednesday for both sides? >>guest: we will see what the group of 12 want toss do. i don't find that to be a useful discussion as we still trying to see to we can put forward something dealing with the nation's unsustainable spending crisis and unsustainable unemployment. >>chris: what happens to the extension of unemployment if there is no deal? >>guest: we focused on success on this, and i don't know the answer to that, certainly, we would want to make sure they paid for, and we know that the

two, both the debt crisis and the unemployment crisis are related. so that is something that conditioning would have to debate. the good news, if, if, if there is no agreement the nation will end up with what republicans said: there will stem be $1 reduction for every $1 increase in the debt ceiling. it will be $1.2 trillion programs opposed to $1.5 trillion the spark way but we have an unsustainable debt threatening our national security and our jobs and our children's future. there was an opportunity to do it, but, unless you fundamentally figure out as a nation how we will get quality health care opportunities for all of our citizens, at a rice that doesn't bankrupt our children, yes, we will fail. >>chris: one, the reason you say there will still be deficit reduction is because you have the automatic triggers $1.2 trillion, half in the pentagon

and half from nonmilitary spending. what do you think are the chances that the pentagon trigger, that will be changed so that, yes, you will get that but dill not come out of the pentagon? >>guest: i hope it will be changed. the secretary of defense panetta said cuts of that magnitude would hollow out our national defense. i help the members of congress and the president of the united states would listen to him. but i want people to know that i am going to be committed to ensuring that the american people get the deficit reduction they were promised. but, under the law, congress will have 13 months to do that in a smarter more prudent fashion and i plan to be part of that process. >>chris: finally, during the debt crisis mess to summer there was a 2,000-point drop in the markets, and you are leading me in the direction to lead me to

believe you will fail, what do you think the impacting be on the markets and politically? >>guest: i don't know what the impact on the market would be. i hope there would not be, again, adverse impact in the sense that the american people are still going to get the deficit reduction that was contemplated under the law but it is a huge blown opportunity and we are on borrowed time and we are borrowing 40 cents on the dollar mostly from the chinese and sending the bill to our children and grandchild. so it was not a failure as it was a failure to seize an opportunity. if it is not this opportunity, this nation better seize another opportunity or we will be in big economic trouble. >>chris: thank you for coming in, congressman, i help we and you get surprised over what happens just ahead. >> for democrats the key sticking point is what to do about the bush tax cuts that will expire at the end of 20

2012. it would provide if expired $800 billion in added revenue but republicans are demanding they be extended and now, a key democrat open the super committee, congressman becerra. welcome back to fox news sunday. you just heard congressman saying, or sounding like it is dead. >>guest: we are deep in the 4th quarter and i don't think any of us want the time to run out without trying everything possible to get there. >>chris: you say fourth quarter come back, are democrats preparing a last minute offer? >>guest: as he said, the conversations continue. i think they will continue physical wednesday if they have to. >>chris: you only have until monday because you have to submit to c.b.o. by monday. >>guest: the congressional budget office which has to score this plan has essentially seen the different elements that could --. >>chris: doesn't have to be

made public 48 hours in advance? >>guest: if it does, i suspect we could put out there what would be the ouines of the plan. i don't think we will try to give up on an opportunity to get it done, it is better than letting automatic triggers to decide where we make the cuts. >>chris: but, to be honest, it sounds more to me from what you and my previous guest are saying you do not want to admit pressure because you would like it blamed on the republicans rather than the democrats but it is still failure, >>guest: it is not an issue between a deal and no deal but it is a matter of getting a better deal. we have a deal that was struck in august. whether we do something or not, there will be $1.2 trillion additional savings after the $1 trillion in savings in august. but it is better to do it a smart way than have some sequestration process decide law automatic triggers how to get

this done. >>chris: in the interest of being fair and balanced the conditioning man said the democrats were untelling to come up with serious damages to entitlements, is that why this has failed? >>guest: i don't think that's the reason. i don't think there is failure yet. i believe the elements of a tell probably not as big as some of us would like, are still there. >>chris: assuming there is failure, why do you think this occurs? >>guest: unless you discount the hours and days we still have left, we can try to get there. we can figure out a way to do $1.2 trillion in savings better than letting the blunt edge of the guillotine to do it for us. >>chris: and now, let's talk about the criticism of my previous guest. is part of the deadlock the fact that democrats refuse to do anything serious about entitlements? >>guest: that is not the case. everything has been on the table including reform of our entitlement program.

but, at the same time, let's eliminate the programs that don't work before we start to talk about taking away programs that people have paid for and services they have to live with, whether it is social security or medicare. there are a lot of programs out there where we could look and see ways where we should go after those before we tell people you have paid for this but we will still cut it to battle the budget. >>chris: let me ask you a couple of specific questions: have you and the democrats rejected any officer in the eligible age for medicare? >>guest: the increase has been on the table. and depending on what is in the package, it might have been or could be something that is in a package but it depends on whether it is balanced. why do you want to balance the budget on the backs of seniors by say they will not receive the medicare they have been paying for all these years until two years later than they expected it has to be a balanced approach where everyone understands if we

get this economy moving, and americans back to work it is become everyone chips in. >>chris: let me ask, have you rejected any reduction in the cost-of-living adjustment for social security? >>guest: that's on the table. now, again, social security has never once contributed a penny to the deficits, to the $15 trillion in national debt, not penny has come from social security but many of us have said it should stay on the table and i will fight like the dickens to take it off but we should be republicked it go this with everything. the moment we walk in with the protections for the special interest pledges we get ourselves if trouble, and, so, everything should be on the table the it is a true that a good package need not take away from seniors. >>chris: we know the arguments that, and we have heard it to death during the debt crisis, and during the continuing resolution to keep the budget going, and to keep the government going and the budget,

but guys want to protect entitlements. they want to protect their tax cuts. the bush tax cuts. you have had three months, we have a $44 trillion that will be spent over the next decade, a $15 trillion debt, why couldn't you make a deal? >>guest: every land that democrats have put forward has included cuts to intimate programs. some deeper. the bigger the daily. some smaller. >>chris: why couldn't you make a deal? >>guest: for democrats we would say that there is still a deal possible but it has to be balanced. you can not say you are going to take benefits away from services that people have paid for, such as medicare and social security and not scat wealthiest members, we have 1,400 multi-millionaires who did not pay a bit of income tax in 2009, why should they escape participation when we ask seniors to help cover the costs of deficits in case of social security, they didn't cause?

>>chris: i understand that is what republicans are worried about and you are worried about what you worried about. why kept make a dole? >>guest: i believe there is a deal out there. i believe there is a better deal than letting automatic cuts decide for us. chris, that is why doesn't my t.v. work? think we should call the game over deep into the 4th quarter. we still have an opportunity to go somewhere. both sides have honestly tried to put what they believe would be a if solution on the table. >>chris: you say we want to have smart deficit reduction not stupid deficit reduction. would you vote to change the triggers, $1.2 trillion if this is no deal and to roll back on the defense cuts? >>guest: you are asking one of the 12 who has asked to do something to avoid the triggers if i would want to change the triggers, whether you are one of the 12 on the super committee or someone would voted for this legislation that created the triggers and the super committee, it is a wimpy way out

to say well change the triggers because i don't like the result from the super committee. we should be prepared --. >>chris: even if it means they are done? >>guest: we have to move forward. the triggers give us $1.2 trillion in savings and i think there is a smarter way than with triggers but you shave away the responsibility to make the cuts, guess what? you are in a worse hole in a yield than today. you have to have discipline. the super committee was set up to try to avoid the harsh result of automatic triggers. >>chris: thank you, congressman. pragmatically so. >> chris: what no deal mean for the u.s. economy and a credit rating? [ male announcer ] cranberry juice? wake up!

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>>chris: the have committee tries to find a compromise no one will watch more closely than the financial markets. and that includes chief economist for moody's a top credit rating agency and joins us from pennsylvania. welcome back, sir. >>guest: good morning. >>chris: this week you many cap the odds of outcomes of the super committee. gimmick deal like using war funding to cut the deficit 10 jeering, in deal, 30 percent, partial deal, not the pull deal, $40 percent. done deal, $1.2 trillion. and big deal, the so-called $3

trillion plus, 5 percent. after hearing our two congressman, mr. zandi, what do you think will happen? >>guest: well, to my ear it sounds like it is a "no," deal. hopefully my economic protests are better than what they decided early in the week but it sounds like this deal. >>chris: before we get to the impact in the markets, you heard two, republicans saying doing this through spending cuts especially with entitlement reform and democrats say they want to see size ability tax increases on the wealthy, from the economic point of view, which is the better way? >>guest: both. we came to terms around the debt crisis debate in august we need $4 trillion in ten year deficit reduction and the most logical approach is $3 trillion of the $4 trillion should be government

spending cuts. and $1 trillion should be additional tax revenue so we need both. we are not going to accomplish this until they come to that realization. >>chris: during the debt ceiling debacle this summer the markets dropped 2,000 points. what do you thing the reaction will be from the markets? >>guest: well, why think it will be much of a reaction, it is relative to expectation. and investor expectation with regard to the committee are, have been and are still very slow. i don't think many expect much to come out of the process. i don't think there will be significant market reaction. but i think because it looks like the committee will punt we have bigger problems ahead of us and those could be flash points

for the markets. we are not out of the woods yet. >>chris: explain. what do you see that will create problems? >>guest: first, immediately, we will have to figure what to do about provisions in the tax code, government spending programs that expire. and they matter a lot to the economy. for example, the payroll tax holiday we got, expires and everyone's taxes go up january 1. it does not seem that makes sense in the context of how weak the economy. that could have significant implications and emergency insurance will end, and the a.t.m. patch, and a whole slew of things. and i hoped it would be figured out in the super committee but with that said it is a problem. and next year the big problem is whether congress and the

administration have the fortitude to toll through on the automatic spending cuts that hit in 2013. it is unclear if they will follow-through. if they don't that will be a problem for the markets. >>chris: you say if they undo the triggers it would be a disaster for the markets? >>guest: i think so. at the end of the day the financial markets still believe, and presently so, the congress and the administration will get it together. they did not this opportunity, but they have a few more opportunities and the expectation is they will get it together but if they don't and it is clear they are not going to, we have a problem. and the financial market are going to become unruly, turmoil hits the market and it will be a problem. >>chris: when moody's did not

downgrade but s&p did, they downgraded because of the political dysfunction in the country. if there is a failure, as its looks like there is in the super committee, that is the political function extend asked increased could have have an impact on our credit rating? >>guest: i don't think the super committee failed which it looks like it will, there will be any impact on the credit rating. no. i think in current law, if policymaker dozen nothing we will achieve the $4 trillion in ten year deficit reduction and then some because we get the automatic spending cuts that begin in 2013 and the bush tax cuts expire at the end of 2012. so everyone's tax rates will go up, and that is more than we need to achieve the goal. so in current law we have what we need. now, i think the rating agencies will wait to see whether the law

is changed. and how it is changed. before they change their mind about the rating of the treasury debt. >>chris: there are hopeful signs for the u.s. economy right now and, in fact, it look like growth not 4 the quarter will be over 3 percent which is double what it has been for the first nine months of the year. but if you get the super committee failure and, also, looking at it compared to the young debt crisis where greece and italy will have done better in terms of passing austerity packages than the united states, could this have an impact on the u.s. economy? >>guest: you are right. the economy is feeling better. but, part of that is related to the decline in oil and gasoline prices, aary pump and part of it is because the japanese economy is coming back on line helping our manufacturing and vehicle industry, and that is temporary

and early next year, the sources of growth fade and we have a tax increase if we do not have any legislation, and emergency benefits expire, and they do not get the money they don't spend and, now, the confusion with regard to how we will address our fiscal problems and is congress and the administration going to follow-through on the automatic spending cuts? and, then, of course, europe. so my point is, 2012 is ship up to be a very, very tough year and in large part because the super committee decided to punt. at least at this point it appears they decided to punt. >>chris: thank you, mr. zanzi, always good to talk to you. coming up, newt's prospects rise as frontrunners falter. stay tuned. anel on whether speaker gingrich can hang on to

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>> what i didn't do and would not do is i didn't go and lobby the congress. i didn't lobby the executive branch. i didn't try to represent any position i didn't believe in beforehand. and that is a very big difference between being a lobbyist and a strategic consultant. >>chris: newly minted frontrunner gingrich trying to explain the millions he made from advising a number of companies after he stepped downs speaker. and now, our sunday group. brit hume, and bill krystal and juan williams and the latest polls. in iowa, gingrich has opened a

big lead, at 32 percent, followed by romney at 19 percent, and herman cain, falling, to 13 percent, and ron paul holding steady at 10 percent and new hampshire which has been a romney stronghold, gingrich is trailing romney by just two points, and paul and cain well behind. so, how do you account for the rise particularly after the dismal start and million in debt his staff firing him and now, he's the co-frontrunner. >>guest: it is his turn and he now occupies the single most dangerous place to be if american politics which is the non-romney leader in the republican field, with the position occupied bien from donald trump to most recently herman cain and a couple of others. everybody who has occupied that spot has entered almost immediately a slide and it remains to be seen if gingrich will. i think he has vulnerabilities and explaining he did just now is a sign of that.

and one of the companies he represented to the tune considerable sum of money. and that was freddie mac, he advised a big player not mortgage meltdown. he has vol increasabilities and he has a long track record and books and statements on many issues and he has had every position you can have on every issue and not all the positions were conservative and well hear about that. >>chris: now, with the added attention and spotlight comes the scrutiny. a bunch of stories coming out this week and one he made between $1.5 million and $1.8 million advising the failed mortgage giant freddie mac and then it turned out his think tank got $37 million from various major health care companies. how damaging is that to his narrative that he was an insider but now he is an outsider and he can shake up the town.

>>guest: he is disingenuous in answers about the health care companies and drug firms did not pay his group $37 million because of his grasp of history. freddie mac did not pay him $30,000 an hour for their positively visit because of his grasp of history. and iowa voters will dissenator as they learn more of his act is whether the answers are reasonable and credible and for giveable. he has been disinscene white house in his answers but he is ultimately also romney like. he is admitting in the big website he set up to let us know why he is such a true conservative he is the alternate to romney that he really is taking back his support for tarp, and, he is sorry he said what he said on climate change, and a mandate for health care reform. those are major issues and they are called flip flops. >> at the there of newt bashing. bill, it isn't just that he made

the money but how he made the money, he got millions from health care companies and insurers at a time when he supported the individual mandate. he was a big supporter of the idea, frankly, until early this year, he wrote that care carry should follow the lead of a client on end-of-life decisions which soups a lot like death panels. it is not just the money, he was take positions i would think conservatives could have trouble with. >> he is take positions conservatives have trouble with but he has been something romney hasn't been, a leader of the conservative movement for 25 years. i came to washington in 1985, a young foot soldier in the reagan revolution and how many conservatives have been prominent? for all of his problems, and his deficiencies and all the fights, he did not quite fight correctly he is one of few, so there is a

rallying to newt against romney by conservatives and there will be a big look at his record, but i he will say when he was speaker of the house, he took over the budget deficit was $200 billion, and then when i left it was a surplus. i became majority whip of the house, the republicans were in the minority, and i left republicans were in the majority. we passed welfare reform. he can defend his record effectively against romney. >>juan: the best to say about gingrich is lots of people think he is the smartest guy in the room and when he enters the room people are overwhelmed by the ideas and the proposals that come forth from gingrich. but, the fact is, in just hard political terms if you are a democrat and you are looking at gingrich as a likely opponent to

president obama, maybe the analogy is like those balloons that will float down industrial park for thanksgiving, any moment, any of the trees along the way could poke it and the balloon explodes and that is what is going on with gingrich. any moment, you can say, my gosh, i forgot about that. i forgot about the insurance problem. it is just too much. you have to wonder, so, it is not about romney. it is about romney, it is not about newt, it is about romney. why does everyone come along and challenge mitt? he can't get above the limit of 23 percent to 25 percent? >>chris: and we only have a couple of minutes, brit, back to newt, and as bill points out, there is a lot to like about newt, he was if you are a conservative republican, he was the guy the republican revolution in 1994 and he brought the republicans back from the wilderness into the report for the first 40 years,

exactly, and welfare reform, balanced budget, a lot of things. but even the record as speaker is checkered. >> that is true. i don't dispute a word that bill said about what happened while he was speaker. of course, president clinton had a happened if that and so did a booming u.s. economy, it was the "dot.com" bubble, and that play add role in the surplus but he did have a checkered period, he was the only speaker in the united states history ever reprimanded for ethics violation and he had to pay a $300,000 penalty and in addition he was nearly outsided in a mutiny by the troops in 1987 and was forced to step down in 1998 and became a poster child for republican excess and he was the guy that was favored whipping boy. could he be made into that again is the question? if he were the nominee for president?

that the question that republicans have to worry about. could he be successfully portrayed as a guy who is way out there and to erratic and extreme for the voters? in a multihundred million dollar ad campaign? stay tuned. you could save a bundle with geico's multi-policy discount. geico, saving people money on more than just car insurance. ♪ geico, saving people money on more than just car insurance.

the hope was that even at this late date you could take >> hope was, hopefully you could take things that were scored and put them together but that is doubt will. obviously, thin wants to quit until the stroke of midnight.

>>chris: that was a glum senator kyl with a pessimistic take on the stalled negotiations. we heard from two members of the super committee and you have been doing a lot of reporting on this. is this dead? or in the hours between now and midnight monday is there any possibility of a last minute surprise? >>guest: well, the members are right. they have prescored much of the proposals so it is always viable to the final hour bewe are looking at failure because the committee was designed to fail. there are no consequences. there is ultimately not really a trigger. there are 13 months until john of 2013 for the triggered cuts to be rejoined and they will be rescinded in the lame duck session following the election and well not have the cuts that are so draconian to the pentagon. >>chris: changed or rescinded?

>>guest: they might be replaced but you her the congressman starting to worry that maybe that is a slippery slope. when you an difficult -- abrogate that, youill not see those cuts. those are gone. the pentagon will not take the hit that was supposed to be sword over the committee. they have known no default, no deadline, no consequence. you will see a fight over how to replace the cuts with other cuts. to time, only 535 congresses in the kitchen; no filibuster proof project and conservatives would came to cut everything who voted to raise the debt crisis and have cut little. and now, they will vote for extending the tax cut. >> house republicans passed a tough budget and what happened? it went to the senate and this

was in budget. >> they are going hope unhappy they have not changed enough of the bottom line. >> in kidding. >> i think they are going to fight for an extension of the bush tax cuts and that will be the fight the next 12 months and how to remove the pentagon cuts. but there is on the table an effort to stop the cuts to care carry payments to doctors, and extend unemployment insurance benefits and the payroll tax cut. that is $200 billion in new deficit spending. so we is an immediate fight to keep the government open and then a whole year long fight ahead but there was never any sons. >>chris: the super committee had superpowers because if they had a proposal there would be no amendments allowed, so instead of there being a super majority in the senate, 60 votes only 51, a simple majority if a super committee fails and that goes out the window and we are back to the same old sausage making

we normally have. assume, and i think it is the logical assumption, nothing is done. in -- no deal. what do you think? >> i don't like super committees with superpowers. i like sausage making, it is called democracy. and what we will have is an election and we will have a bigger election in november as a result of the failure. the effect, and i don't which party it helps but it will increase that november 2012 is a very big election and the parties have a different vision of the side and scope of the federal government and that will be litigated before and decided by the people of the country not by a super committee. >>chris: to the degree the failure of the super committee is portrayed as republicans refusing to cut taxes on the wealthy and democrats, rather,

raise taxes on the wealthy and democrats refuse to structurally reform and make cuts or reduce the rate of growth of spending in entitlements would gets the better side? >>juan: democrats. easy. overwhelming. not even close. you look at polls the american people, two thirds think there should be higher taxes on people would make more than $200 or $250,000 a year in this country and they think that should be part of the deal. and i don't think anyone will forget when the republican candidates were asked, will you take $1 in tax hikes in change for $10 in spending cuts they say "no," and the -- the presidential candidates, yes. so the overpowering impact is the republicans in to time of occupy wall street, are the protecters of the super rich. >>chris: i am not sure we should talk about occupy wall street as a plus. juan: we should.

we should. i distracted by people --. >>chris: what people are thinking is they fed up with it. >>juan: when you ask most people, is wall street out-of-control? is there in equality in terms of income people say yes and those are the basic ideals of occupy wall street that have trouble on the street. globally. not just here. let me finish my point, so, the point is --. >>chris: there is a limit, juan. >>juan: you are not playing fair but go right ahead. >>chris: it is called being the moderate. your thoughts, brit? if democrats say they didn't want to cut and raise taxes on the wealthy. >>guest: a failure to deal with the debt and spending issue that drove the 2010 election will hurt the president, although he has done his best to stay as far away as possible

from this, it will, it will not help republicans. i don't think, juan, to the contrary, it will help the democrats. it is what the people hate. election years are not known to be the time when great bipartisan things happen. so, the problem all along has been that the specter of the automatic cuts, they be correctly pointed out, was not dire enough and there was a year to play with, time to change things and fix things, and, that, as a result, has been you could not get people to overcome the objections. >>chris: president obama started blaming congress, the do nothing congress and he stayed as far as he could away from this, and the poll numbers have gone up. >>guest: yes, the default over the summer when he tried to say he was a reasonable grown up did not work for him.

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>> here's a thanksgiving revel. how do you go from founding a tech giant to creating a successful cosmetics company to raising turkeys the way the indians did? the answer is it takes a unique kind of person like our power player of the week. >> form with the season, know your soil, know your rainfall, know your weather, know your animals. >> sandy learner is talking about sustainable farming, raising livestock and growing vegetables without the chemicals that are so common in what she calls factory farming. just days before thanksgiving she took me out to see and, yes, to dance with her 13000 turkeys, heritage breeds that chase back to the indians.

[gobbling] >> there is 800 acres in uppersville virginia." but as interesting as her business is how show got here. she grew up on a farm in california making enough from raising cattle to send herself to college. >> what i learned was to love work. i'm happiest when i am engaged and working and thinking and striving. >> she got into computer. in 1984 she and her then-husband started cisco systems that sound a way to link networks of computers, the foundation of the internet. >> how do you get fired from a company you started? >> we just got taken to the cleaners and part of that is if you don't have an employment contract. i got fired by the same guy who fired steve jobs. >> lerner had a second act. she started a cosmetics company

called urban decay with edgy colors like her and 15 years ago she bought ayer sure farm. >> you look at thomas jefferson. >> you are a pretty girl. >> she raises shires, war-horse that is go back centuries, and cattle and those turkeys that she said taste better because of the lives they lead. >> how much does this turkey cost compared to what i would get in a grocery store? >> our turkeys are expensive. i think they are running this year about 160 to $200. >> at those prices there are questions about how to make this kind of farming profitable. but while lerner is determined to run a sound business, it's not just about the bottom line. does -- there is a 40-room mansion on the form?

>> i don't know. >> what do you mean? >> i live in a little log cabin and i love it. >> do you think you are a bit eccentric? >> i used to be. now i'm just weird. >> she grew up on a family farm and she wants to see those values live on." i'm a cow girl and i can tell from farmers are thinking. it's my success as a farmer works i is what george washington was, he wanted to be a really good farmer and i've become a good farmer. >> sandy lerner has one more passion. she's a student of the great english writer, jane austin, and has spent the last 26 years writing a sequel to pride and prejudice. it's called second impressions and it will be in bookstores in december. that's it for today. have a great week and a happy thanksgiving. we will see you next fox news sunday.