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tv   America Live  FOX News  March 15, 2013 10:00am-12:00pm PDT

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>> russian's president vladimir putin, that's him, known as a fitness buff. >> who doesn't have pictures like that. >> and now he's teaming up with steven segall, developing a martial arts center outside of moscow and putin's attempt to bring back a nationwide fitness program first brought by josef stalin in the 1930's and says on the kremlin website, that program could bring major benefits to mother russia, making children
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strong, healthy for the mother land. >> and i can see the fitness trend in manhattan about a soviet workout. >> it could get popular here. maybe we're on to something. >> the stalin something. i'll think of it. >> you'll figure it out. >> the stalin workout. thanks for joining us. >> "america live" starts right now. now. >> . >> fox news alert. on the white house weighing in on the latest senate effort to pass new gun control laws. the question now, how far will the president go in this fight? welcome to "america live" on a friday, eastern. i'm megyn kelly. in a vote down party line, the senate judiciary committee approved a ban on assault weapons and urged the senate and house to pass the measure and vice-president joe biden now on twitter saying, quote, encouraged by senate judiciary committee action. background checks, school safety, bans on assault weapons and high capacity magazines, but back on capitol hill, the main sponsor says
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she needs more from the white house in order to get this thing over the finish line. chris stirewalt is our fox news digital politics editor and host of power play on live. and so, there was all this kerfuffle yesterday about the exchange between dianne feinstein and senator ted cruz of texas. he challenged her with whether you could similarly limit the first amendment rights and the fourth amendment that protects from search and seizure and so on in the way he thinks she's trying to do to second amendment rights. this was all over the broadcast yesterday. i ask you this, chris, as much attention as that got and we're going to show the viewers point of that in a minute. what was the point? because as of right now, are there even arguably the votes for the thing in the senate, the full senate or the house? >> megyn, don't start raising the bar for-- or lowering the bar for pointlessness in washington d.c., we'd all be out of a job in no time. come on, no, i kid a little.
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>> megyn: can that be done? can one lower that bar? >> well, congress is trying. we try, this city tries all the time, but the truth is that the exchange is important in this pay, that it encapsulates pretty well, what these two points of view are that dianne feinstein did not care to be questioned on the point of the constitution and this, ted cruz only cares about the constitution as relates to this and so you see how far apart you saw it's nicely encapsulated, how far apart the two sides of this issue are and why in fact, as you said, this bill is not going anywhere. >> so, what if anything should the president do? i mean, dianne feinstein, even if you disagree with her, you've got to applaud her for standing by what she believes in and trying to get it done. even those who don't want to see it passed, that's what you do with a legislator who believes in legislation, what is the the president supposed to do now? she seems to be looking at him or to him saying i need some
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help. >> well, it's not just her. she voiced it and as you said, this is her issue. this is something that has been a cornerstone of her career and she would like the president to stand with her. she would like the president to push harder on the subject and so would lots of liberals, this is part of the big three for them in the second obama term, that's global warming, gun control, and gay rights. and those are the things that matter a lot for liberals and things that they like to see accomplished and on gun control, nothing is going to happen unless there's legislation. the president can only do so-- as we saw with executive orders, not so much he can do without a law. so the left is really ready for the president to get out in front and start leading the charge on this. >> megyn: on the three g's that's interesting, global warming, gun control and gay rights and brit hume said he wanted to retire to focus on the three g's, they were not the same. >> they were decidedly different. >> megyn: his were god, golf and grandchildren and no one
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is passing legislation on in the senate. so, but why is the president not doing more right now? i mean, he tried. he came out and he had the press conference with the children behind him. you know, who had written to him asking for greater gun control laws and so on. you know, and is it this sinking approval numbers? and americans seem behind more background checks, but not necessarily this piece of legislation. >> look, the president may be able to ignore the law that says he has to produce a budget, at least flout it for a while, but he cannot avoid the deadlines looming at the end of this month and into the summer as relates to the continuing resolution and the government in absence of a budget and then, the looming debt ceiling. so, he's got to deal with both of those and he's trying now to cobble together a very he difficult coalition. s' never tried anything like this before in his presidency, to try to get republicans and democrats together to basically agree on what it's going to take to borrow 1.3 to
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1.5 trillion dollars over the next 18 months or so. and that is consuming all of these time and all of his interest and talking about a hugely divisive issue like gun control in the middle of that would not be particularly helpful. >> megyn: i want to ask you on a different point, about senator ted cruz. he's been, boy, he got a lot of flak from the left and even some on the right for what we saw in that, in that senate exchange yesterday. i want to show the viewers now, can we pull up a sound bite and show them to give a flavor of what we saw between the junior senator from texas and the senior senator from california. >> the question i would pose to the senior senator from california would she deem it consistent with the bill of rights for congress to engage in the same endeavor that we're contemplating doing with the second amendment, in the context of the first or fourth amendment? >> i'm not a 6th grader, senator, i've been on this committee for 20 years.
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i've studied the constitution myself. i am reasonably well educated and i thank you for the lecture. >> megyn: a lot of pushback how senator cruz handled himself in that hearing both in terms of decorum and in terms of the substance, even charles krauthammer wasn't that complimentary of senator cruz. what is the buzz on him? because he is really reloved in some circles and you hear his name now more and more from republicans who are looking for 2016 and their prospects? >> well, he was decorous, but he wasn't deferential, you could say, what the senate is referential and supposed to shut up and sit in the back. and things are changing in washington because of what happened in 2010 and more after as more libertarian minded and more conservative republicans continue to come in. guess what? they don't win any points with their voters for being deferential, they don't get
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anything for that because the voters would not like them to defer to dianne feinstein when it comes to gun control. texas doesn't want to see that so this is what the future is going to look like in the senate, which is the old boys club and old gals club is going by the way side and it's going to be much more confrontational and much more ideological and that's just the way it's going to be. >> megyn: looks like the british house of commons at times. not really. >> more fun to cover. >> megyn: chris, thank you. we showed you the exchange, between senator cruz and senator feinstein is moment ago. senator feinstein went on television and described senator cruz as arrogant and aggressive and did feel that she was being lectured to. so the question today, was he just trying to be tough, make a point, young whippersnapper in the senate? or did he have an important legal point? did he have a valid legal point? we'll have a fair and balanced debate on that question just
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ahead. a new question for the white house over an unnecessary national security reversal that may waste hundreds of millions of dollars. president obama slammed the brakes on a west coast missile defense shield in 2009. now after new threats from north korea, the pentagon is rushing to beef up and that's proving to be more expensive. >> in less than two hours, chuck hagel will hold a news conference on missile defense learned that the pentagon is set to deploy 14 additional ground-based missile silos in alaska and california and bring the total number of interceptors to 44. just eight days ago, the white house tried to reassure the american people. >> i can tell you that the united states is fully capable of defending against any north korean ballistic missile attack. >> reporter: north korea has
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been unpredictable, a country so isolated and threatened a preemptive strike on the u.s. and signaling a change is coming. >> north korea has the united states to continue icbm. >> intercontinental ballistic missile. saying the threat should have been recognized. >> and clear it was a-- they misdiagnosed, i think, the nature of what was happening in the region in terms of what a heavily sanctioned country determined to acquire these capabilities would be able to do, but i think it's also driven by a broader ideology that was opposed to missile defense. >> copingressional sources say it would cost more than four years ago and the cost of missiles has gone up at a time
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that washington has huge fiscal challenges. megyn. >> megyn: all right. mike, thanks. well, from michigan today the eye opening story how one teachers union has found a way around the states new right to work law and a question about whether this tactic legal, as some teachers beg for a break from the union bosses. in three minutes, lou dobbs explains how they've managed to do an end-around the new right to work law there. plus, new suggestions that first lady michelle obama may be eyeing a run for political office. we read the tea leaves with a man who sized former president bill clinton. and new fallout from michael moore's plan to quote, destroy the n.r.a. by getting the connecticut school shooting photos published. the photos of those little kindergarteners, he wants them made public. now some in the newtown community are responding to his idea and we also hear from the head of the n.r.a. today.
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>> scissors, that's their answer? let's get this straight, to protect our children in school, we recommend a trained professional with a gun, they recommend scissors. and they say we're crazy? i mean -- hungry for the best?
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>> well, the white house claimed budget problems and canceled tours for the people's house to the public. what? what did i just say? the white house blamed the budget reductions for those white house tours being canceled. the and so, some folks are wondering where the main came from to entertain members of congress and their guests. of the white house said today the annual easter egg roll is still on. each member of congress is invited to bring up to four
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guests from a day on the south lawn. that's from last year. and some 35,000 people, for the cash-strapped secret service. and in the print they say it may be canceled if funding or if the media gets wind of this plan. that's not-- (laughter) one eye opening story out of michigan for a special deal for one union that managed to land before that state passed its right to work laws. teachers in one michigan school district now reportedly have to cough up union dues for the next ten years even if they say adios to the union. the union apparently got the news, grandfathered in before the right to work law takes effect later this month. so what is the point to the right to work law? lou dobbs is host of "lou dobbs tonight" on the fox business network. they're supposed to be able to
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disassociate from the union when the law goes into effect in march in michigan and yet, somehow this teachers union found an end-around the law and you can disassociate, but you have to keep paying us $700 a year in dues. >> per year. >> megyn: that's a lot of change. >> it's a lot of money and particularly for a school district in which they're facing a 10% pay cut, thank you very much to the teachers union. they really have very little to pay this union to begin with. but what the union has done with the school district in complicity is sign a separate security agreement, security clause that means that the teachers, irrespective of the fact that michigan on march 28th will be a right to work state, will have to pay union dues for the next decades. >> and right to work means you can join the union or not join the union. >> your choice. >> now they're told you do what you want, we're getting $700 a year because we struck a deal with the school.
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>> now, you're the lawyer, but i've got to say-- >> that sounded like liar, let me say exact, lawyer. >> and the deal between the teachers union and the district is about as unconscionable, i think, as it gets. it also will fall because state law reempties, irrespective of the time it goes into effect because it would be an utter violation and the contract between them. if these people can convince a judge if they came to that deal with clean hands, they will have worked, i think, something of a miracle and the reason they're doing this is that they know from experience, 24 states in this country, michigan the 24th, are right to work states and every state, most recently, oklahoma in 2001, more than a quarter of their dues were lost because the teacher said the heck with it. >> megyn: now, the teachers who are suing to challenge this deal. >> three of them. >> megyn: the teachers in the
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union were scared into voting for this measure. so it sounds like it did technically have the teacher's support, but not all of them and they feel that they were strong armed into agreeing to this by their union. >> they were not only intimidated, but it looks like a quid pro quo between the district, if you will, between the district and the federation of teachers, the this union in taylor, michigan, in which they said, you know, we'll sign this. >> megyn: the law is fine, the law is what it is, but then we've got our deal that says, forget that law, it's a pesky law, how are we going to get our dues with that law in place. >> one of the reasons we see unemployment in right to work states. a full 8/10 of a percent lower than in nonright to work states. it's-- >> unemployment's lower? you're saying more people are-- >> it's lower in right to work states. >> megyn: right to work. >> significantly. we're looking at greater business formation in those
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states. and it's-- it's a very simple and personal situation. >> megyn: something in going on in oregon where the teachers union there wants state lawmakers to remove -- there's a notice coming up on the balance. >> property taxes. >> megyn: that is warning people of a potential property tax hike in the coming election. i don't understand exactly what's happening. the teachers don't like that, but why are the teachers objecting to notifications of property taxes going up. >> they don't want the voters to notice if they've signed up, they voted for a property tax hike and the property taxes are the basis. >> megyn: and they're going to go and vote on various measures that affect them and the one on i raising property taxes is now highlighted on red ink on the outside of the voter envelope. >> and saying we've got more taxes coming at you. >> megyn: and the teachers union says let that go? >> no, let the voters blythely
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go on and meander through the ballot and the last thing they want is for taxpayers to know that he or she is going to be paying higher taxes in an educational system that isn't too shiny, if i can use the expression. it's pitiful what's happening. >> megyn: because those property taxes will go help fund the teachers salaries and they don't want anybody-- they don't want it to be highlighted the number is going to be up. >> you've got a stealth teacher union. just don't bother their pretty heads in oregon with the fact that they're paying more money for the same service. >> megyn: how did they get to the situation in oregon the fact that your property taxes might go up if you vote yes on a certain initiative get highlighted on red on the outside of our little envelope. >> because some of the voters in oregon are very smart and over the 1990's, they put through a requirement that anytime taxes are to be hiked, property taxes are going be to be hiked, there has to be an
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alert, an alert on the ballot. >> megyn: wow. >> to the voter. very smart it should be in every. >> megyn: usually you don't go there, half the time, i don't know, that sounds good. save the children, yes, i'm a saver of that and your property taxes are doubled and they go back and say, you supported it. >> an example, i assure you everyone watching your broadcast here today has lived through this in every state of the union. >> megyn: it's sad. and always good for checking on the unions and check lou every night-- taking a couple days off, but week nights at 7 p.m. eastern time. check it out. coming up, dramatic new evidence and eyewitness testimony today in a rape trial getting national attention. we told you about this in kelly's court. teenagers called to testify in the case against two high school football stars and now, prosecutors are delving into their troubling, disturbing text messages to one another to piece together what they say happened. we'll tell you what they
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wrote. another floating nightmare for you one of the most popular cruise lines. three ships in trouble in three days. we're live in miami. a democratic mayor run out of the city by union protesters. why they refused to hear what he had to say. vo: bold helps you re-imagine building castles, oceans, and lagoons in the place we call home. bold is where everyone comes to play. starting our day off with a good dance and singing us to sleep at night. coloring our lives in ways only bold can do. it's no wonder bold will make your reality, a dream. none of us think bad things are gonna happen to us. i'm here at my house on thanksgiving day, and i have a massive heart attack right in my driveway. an artery in your heart, it's called the widow maker. and mine was 95% blocked.
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>> the mayor of philadelphia literally run out of the room by union protesters as he tries give his annual budget addre address. >> 23rd recipient of the award for distinguished public service. >> megyn: whistles are drowning out the mayor mudder.
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and they're booing and whistling, drowning him out. and most are union members upset in a stalemate over contract negotiations and rather than have police toss them out. they called a recess and the mayor finished his address in a different room and in front of a much smaller audience. troubling new cell phone evidence introduced in a key trial that we have been watching here on "america live," as some important eyewitnesses testify in a high school rape trial that has shocked the nation and sharply divided an ohio town and people have been asking me about this story wherever i go. two teenage football players, you see them here, stars of the team in steubenville, ohio a popular football town, are accused of raping a 16-year-old girl at a party this past august while she was drunk or passed out or near it at this event. now, prosecutors are sorting through the teen's text messages, building their case
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and it's not pretty. mike tobin outside the courthouse in steubenville, ohio. mike? >> reporter: well, megyn, one of the eyewitnesses on the stand today was a 17-year-old who says that he was in a car with one of the defendants and the victim in in case. and pardon me, there's no sensitive way to say this, but he says what he witnessed was the defendant pushing the girl's shorts to the side and making hand to genital contact. in fact, he said he made a video recording with his iphone and later deleted that video. but the hand and genital contact is very important point for the prosecution because without consent under ohio law, that meets the standard for rape. yesterday we saw the court get into the great volume of text messages that the teenagers sent back and forth with each other. and among other things, showed how traumatizeded 16-year-old girl was. she sent a message to a friend saying, i've been crying all expletive day. i wasn't being a slut. they were taking advantage of
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me. another message read, i hate my life. i don't even know what the expletive happened. so some of the text messages show the callus attitude of one particular defendant toward the victim in this case. i should have raped because everyone thinks i did. and text messages from the defendant is admission to hand to genital contact in vulgar terms. once again a key point for t prosecution because that can meet the standard for the rape charge, megyn. >> megyn: mike, thank you and i can tell you as you look through the text members and you see them unfold, this girl woke up the next morning, clearly had no idea what had happened to her. i mean, one of the texts to one of her friends saying, tell he me right now what the blank happened last night because i need to know the truth. people keep asking me and i don't know what to say and the panic erupt as the information comes back to the pictures circulated of her about what
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allegedly happened to her and so on. at the same time you see the he e-mail traffic and text message traffic from the two defendants and the football team around them. and the matter is very disturbing. i'm not saying it proves rape, i'm saying it proves disturbing. coming up we're going to be joined by dr. keith ablow a fox news medical a-team member and psychiatrist about why, why no one stepped in to help this young woman at a minimum, she was fall-down drunk, slurring her words, throwing up all over herself at or around the time this happened to her. more than 60 teenagers may have witnessed and some even photographed these events on their cell phones that night. why did no one, no one do anything to stop it? that's coming up later. well, new fallout from michael moore's plan to quote, destroy the n.r.a., by getting the newtown crime scene photos published. we're hearing from the newtown parents, some of them, and we'll show you where the
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debate goes from here. those folks were not happy with the proposal. >> when you go to the great beyond you ought to be able to declare your love for nascar and football on your tombstone, right? the cemetery that says, think again, although-- kelly's court. weigh you down? as soon as you feel it, try miralax. it works differently than other laxatives. it draws water into your colon to unblock your system naturally. don't wait to feel great. miralax.
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>> scissors, that's their answer?
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let's get this straight. to protect our children at school we recommend a trained professional with a gun. they recommend scissors, and they say we're crazy? i mean-- >>. >> well, that was n.r.a. chief wayne lapierre, sounding off the action committee or cpac days after film maker michael moore an idea to quote, destroy the n.r.a., by calling for the release of the grisly crime scene photos from the newtown shooting massacre this past december. in a posting on his blog, the film maker says that showing the grim photos would shock the world into action, but today we're getting a new reaction to that call. some of the newtown families are livid with michael moore, calling him off base, and want
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him to stay out of it. the parent newtown connection telling quote, for the families in the community we just want to get back to a normal life and that would be a horrendous offense to the families. there is no need for any of that. that's not all, other parents are reacting as well. joining me now alan colmes, host of the alan colmes show and lars larsen, and at cpac where wayne lapierre spoke earlier. you know, i have to tell you, honestly, i started this by saying, what a hideous proposal, what a hideous, horrible thing to propose, but to be honest, when you read michael moore's piece, he gives you -- he gives you something to think about. and when you actually see the carnage unleashed in newtown, it will be less easy to move on from it. it will make you have to deal with it in a way that is-- it makes you confront the reality of a madman, yes, of
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what a gun can do, yes. now, we'll have a fair and balanced debate whether that means you then pass gun control legislation, but why, why not know, as he claims, as the parents are willing and most are not, but if the parents are willing to show that to us, why not know what actually happened that day before making a decision on an issue like this? let me start with you, alan. >> it's a fair argument, one of the parents of veronique showed the pictures and wanted them to know the horrific nature of gun violence. and i understand why parents understand it's not michael moore, it's up to the individual parents. and similarly, you know, the idea that you're going to show shocking photos or images and sort of change the other side's views, for example, showing pictures of fetuses does not stop the pro choice movement. so i don't know that it's going to blast a hole in the n.r.a., so to speak, and end
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the n.r.a. efforts. >> megyn: and i don't mean the proposal to leak the photos against the parents' wishes, you can't consider, if a warrant doesn't want that you cannot inflict any more damage and pain on those parents and you cannot do that and call yourselves a human being. but the proposal like the mothers alan mentioned, the mother of noah, say his chin and his hand were just blown aw away, she wanted the governor to look at little noah because she wanted him to see what, what had happened that day and for him to really understand it and i don't know, lars, i mean, if people saw that kind of thing, but from the parents who wanted it to be seen, would it change this debate? >> megyn, i don't think it would, but let he me point out a couple of things, first of all, for the record, michael moore is a human being who seems to delight in saying
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outrageous things that do one thing, they draw attention to michael moore. they don't advance the argument. secondly, let me ask judge megyn kelly, i would propose these photos only serve to inflame the emotions of the jury, the american public, hoping they'll do something different than they'll do if they simply heard the facts. we know the facts, children were murdered, it was an ugly scene. now, if individual parents make the choice to share those photos with people, with other family members, with state officials, i'm not going to fault that choice, it's their choice. it's not a choice i would choose to make and i don't believe my wife would do it either, but i think the idea of simply trying to outrage people, here is one i'd agree with alan, would serve the same purpose of showing pictures of aborted fetuses, but it doesn't change the discussion how we solve this problem. >> megyn: you raised a good point, in a court of law something like this would probably not be, depends on the case, but something
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considered too prejudicial would the not be allowed in evidence because you don't want to -- you don't want a jury making its decision based on emotion. you want them making the decision based on facts, the law, the evidence presented to them and so, he is trying to get people to the emotional point, alan, where they would have no choice other than to say, i don't care what it is, i don't care what it is, you know, your first mental health lockup, throw away the key. every gun that's out on the street banned. i mean, to get people to that point. >> that's not going to happen that way. since we've already been horrified enough what we've seen about newtown or what happened after columbine and other such incidents happened, that the nation is in shock enough about the fact that these horrific events take place, waving in people's faces and horrible images, only offend again, it's up to the individual parent. i would take nothing away from my parent based on how they wanted to be portrayed.
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>> megyn: go ahead, lars. >> sure. no, i was just going to say, the emotional reaction to this is the wrong one. for example, what the focus is is rifles and we all know that the most-- the number one murder weapon in america is not rifles, minority of cases. >> megyn: i want to ask you about that. because in michael moore's piece he talks about, the quote six and seven-year-old children killed at sandy hook were hit by a bush master ar rifle. i don't know that that's correct. it was a bush master rifle, but that the shotgun he brought was left in the car. i'm not sure exactly how that results, a lot of people are saying that it wasn't an ar-15. >> there's a dispute over that, but megyn, here is what i'd point out to you, the medical examiner who has looked at the bodies and had the most intimate view of what happened said that the weapon that was used was an ar-15 probably loaded with .233 caliber rounds and that that
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was the murder weapon. there's a debate in the conspiracy world, whether or not it was a pistols or the rifle. i don't think a debate over what kind of firearm was used in that particular instance would be helpful. >> megyn: and some would be banned under dianne feinstein's proposal. ar-15 is targeted, but not handguns. he had a glock and another. >> she wants to ban the rifle that mark kelly brought apparently for he and his wife gabrielle gifford without explanation he's out buying one when he's proposing that americans be forbidden to buy it. >> megyn: he said he was trying to make a point i guess. let me ask you, alan, let me ask you whether there is anything -- whether it's a parent's decision to release the photos or anything you believe could be a deal changer at this point in the game? because you know, everybody sitting here knows they don't have the votes right now. they don't have the votes in the senate. don't have the votes in the house. >> it's one of those really ideological issues where
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people dig in their heels and it's very hard to, like the abortion issue, to get to the other side and to find a place where all sides agree. he so, i'm not sure it would change any mind no matter what happens. god forbid there should be another such tragedy and bring people over to the other side. >> megyn: the tragedy were going to do it-- >> that's what opened up the dialog in the first place and has the legislature moving in a direction would not otherwise have been moving in now. sadly, sadly what it takes sometimes to move forward. unfortunately. >> megyn. >> megyn: quickly, lars. >> there are solutions though. there are solutions. one would be to go out and go after the people who have broken america's gun laws, plenty of examples-- >> definitely not enforcing the laws as written on the books and the whole mental health question has been all, but forgotten, and we'll see if this gun bill likely fails. thank you for being here. just ahead, fox news uncovered evidence that some 30 people
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may have survived the attack on benghazi, that killed four americans. why haven't any of them come forward to answer questions about what happened that night. and video showing nascar jeff gordon pulling what we're told was a prank on used car salesman. a lot of people are saying the salesman was in on the gag contrary to what trace reported yesterday. the wait until you hear what we just heard from the people behind the video. . >>
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>> new questions now that troubling rape trial underway in ohio and about to wrap up. we have been following the new evidence and testimony today. but that case highlighting another problem among students across this country. in steubenville, two high school football stars accused of raping a young girl, but dozens of teenagers witness
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the events of that evening and not one stepped in to stop what was happening. dr. keith ablow is a psychiatrist and a member of our fox news medical a-team and now, we've had to talk about this to some extent before. now we have the evidence and the actual text messages that were going back and forth. i'm not jumping to any conclusions about whether this was rape because the defendants say it wasn't, they say it was consensual and they say that she went to that party having allegedly claimed she wanted to have sex with football players. that's their defense. but what happened, according to the testimony we've heard so far, is this girl had about a half a bottle of vodka before of she got to the parties in addition to a beer. she was so drunk, she was throwing up on herself, she was falling over. there's the infamous picture of her allegedly attacker carrying her like she's an animal, pass out or near passed out according to the witness's testimony and these are the texts after the fact
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that one of the defendants, mays, that's one of the defendants, his teammates to the right of each other, and mays begs the friend you've got to say she was asleep and say she was passed out. i got you man, trying to take care of her. lie after lie after lie and they're only too willing to jump in and tell them. why? >> well, listen, we talked before, megyn, bystander affected people aren't good at intervening when there's a group. this is something more. these are people without empathy. you're texts from people who are horrifying, want to escape all and no feeling for the victim and her friend texts to her, she's pleading, can you please tell me what's happening to me and her best friend or former boyfriend says well, i couldn't help you. >> megyn: let me jump in exactly what he says, her ex-boyfriend says well, you were like dead. i left when i saw you naked on
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the ground i seriously felt so bad for you and i couldn't do blank about it, i'm so sorry. >> this is the end result of what we, you and i have been talking about for some time now. the lack of empathy being stoked by things like social media and reality tv. you see enough bizarre situations on youtube, you become disconnected from your own feelings and those of others by watching crazy situations unfold on reality tv and then real life doesn't move you anymore. these are teenagers. steubenville is every high school. we have an epidemic of a lack of empathy and connectedness that's sweeping this nation. it's the biggest epidemic we will know, that's what i maintain, and it's fueled by things like facebook, youtube and reality tv. >> megyn: you can feel it, you can feel it happening. we all went to high school and we all remember that kids are stupid. they do stupid things. >> yes. >> megyn: they say stupid things, present company
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included, right? and no one is above brow, but, but they -- one of these guys testified to offering others money to urinate on this girl lying there with vomit on herself. another one of the text messages reads, she looks dead, laughing my blank off. and then mays one of the defendants responds, yes, she is. and then the same other friend writes, i want to see the video of you hitting her with your you know what, lol. >> yeah, well, she looks dead, you were like dead. this is what her ex-boyfriend said. these are vampires. these are the the dead preying on people, if you will, emotional dead people who keep invoking the language of mortality. you were like dead, but that's the best metaphor for these folks, because emotionally they're not there anymore. right, they're using iconic scribbles, lmo and whatever, and texting and these are
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things that disconnect people from themselves. they're not human beings in that moment. >> megyn: and hard break coming up, i want to care think over because i want to ask you about the young woman and her female friends. because it's not just the guys. that's next. >> yeah. i'm up next, but now i'm sging the heartburn blues. hold on, prilosec isn't for fast relief. cue up alka-seltzer. it stops heartburn fast. ♪ oh what a relief it is! there's no subtext... just tacos. yeah, it's our job to make you want it. but honestly... it's not that hard. old el paso. when you gotta have mexican. schwab bank was built with all e value and convenience tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 investors want. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 like no atm fees, worldwide. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and no nuisance fees. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 plus deposit ches with mobile deposit. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and manage your cash and investments tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 with schwab's mobile app. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550
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>> dr. ablow is back with us now. there are plenty of young women at the party and i'm he not holding them to a higher standard than the young men. these are some of them. her friends drinking half a bottle of vodka and one friend tried to get her to go stay with a friend, but claims the drunk girl, the alleged victim wouldn't cooperate. i mean, and she just left her at that. and then there's another eyewitness, a 17-year-old girl who said, oh, look, she declined an offer for a safe ride back. she walked through the door before she stumbled through
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the ground. she wasn't exactly passed out. she was conscious and wasn't carried anywhere like they had her like a pig on a stick they didn't carry her-- the callusness the way they recite what happened, doctor. >> i do hold the females to a higher standard because i have not been swept up in the back draft of feminism which was to suggest to young women they're no more vulnerable and sensitive in some ways as young men, which they happen to be and they are more vulnerable, so in my opinion having worked with young women a lot in psychotherapy. why wouldn't they step forward and defend her? i think they've been sold a bill of goods that they, too, are to be co-collaborators in using sex as a drug, while on drugs, while using social media as a drug, and they, too, are lost, severed from their feelings and those for other women who they ought to step forward and defend. >> megyn: i love what you said
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on this program before, bears repeating how you can teach your children not to engage in group thinks, but to challenge when a group behalfs in a certain way to challenge that they must know more and to act. i'll give you the final word. >> listen, it takes that, literally what you just said, if we would say to our kids, listen this could happen and i'll be so proud of you if you're the person who steps forward to do the right thing. i can't tell you what a good and decent person i think you are, show it at the critical moment. people remember things like that. we've got to teach it. >> megyn: okay. dr. ablow. we could get a verdict on the trial. and ted cruz in a fight with dianne feinstein over the second amendment. was he being rude as some suggest or making an important legal point in a tough, but fairway? we'll have a fair and balanced debate. plus, there are new reports out there looking at signs
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that michelle obama may be considering a run for office. doug schoen will go over that with us. and a big new headline on benghazi, libya, right after the break. >> you know what, there comes a point you're left with no other choices. we have he got to get to the bottom of this. ♪ wireless is limitless. [ female announcer ] from finding the best way... ♪ to finding the best catch... ♪ wireless is limitless.
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fever, fatigue, cough, or sores. you should not start humira if you have any kind of infection. ask your rheumatologist about humira, to help relieve your pain and stop further joint damage. >> fox news alert. a breaking investigation into benghazi, libya last year. fox learning there may be as many as 30 survivors none of whom have come forward so far to answer questions about what happened that day. brand new hour here of "america live," i'm megyn kelly. there are lawmakers who want to talk to the survivors of the benghazi attack and the white house is refusing that. hiding those survivors we're told in a virtual witness protection program. now the word coverup is
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entering the debate. u.s. ambassador christopher stevens and three other americans were killed in the september 11th attacks and the search for answers into their deaths and injuries of the others proving elusive, more than six months after the attacks. our chief intelligence correspondent catherine herridge joins us with the latest. >> thank you, a source tells fox news that, hill staffers investigating the benghazi terrorist attacks, believe that 37 personnel were there september 11th. and with the death of ambassador stevens, state department sean smith and two former seals, ty woods and glenn doherty in the annex, and 33 people were evacuated from benghazi. and the first time since the benghazi attack a state department official confirming that among the survivors were three diplomatic security agents and one contractor injured in the assault, and one seriously. fox raised the issue with the white house press secretary a short time ago.
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>> is this white house preventing those survivors from speaking publicly or asking them not to? >> first of all, i have no knowledge of this story. secondly, i'm sure that the white house is not preventing anyone from speaking. >> reporter: leading republicans in the senate and house have been calling on the state department to identify the injured and make them available to congressional investigators and so far the lawmakers say the calls have gone unanswered. >> the state department has not given us the names of the people attacked that were there that have firsthand knowledge of this information. they have given us zero documents, only allowed what's called an in camera review where they can look at documents as they look over our shoulders. >> aside from the state department employees, we believe the cia have approximately 30 personnel on the ground in benghazi, including staff and contractors, fox also understands there will now be congressional pressure for the agency to make those people available to investigators as
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well, megyn. >> megyn: catherine herridge, thanks so much. >> you're welcome. >> i want to take a quick look at surrounding the benghazi attacks and this marks six months since it left ambassador stevens and three others dead. the first ambassador to be killed in the line of duty since 1979. on november 14th, president obama says that his administration had provided all information regarding, quote, what happened in benghazi, still, we search for answers. we are also getting new reports today that a federal grand jury is investigating a u.s. senator, namely democrat robert menendez, as questions grow over what prosecutors are looking for in this probe. the democrat from new jersey caught up in a controversy involving his relationship with the wealthy friend in miami, florida. an eye doctor who made some hefty donations to senator menendez and the democratic party in the last election cycle. doug burns is a former federal
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prosecutor. now we have been told that a federal grand jury is investigating the senator? >> yes, and you have to remember, there's two types of grand juries, one is in investigating and the other is an indicting one. that's an important distinction because the point is in my view, this is an investigating one. they've subpoenaed certain documents and looking into, megyn, whether or not the senator took actions on behalf of this individual, actions that would benefit him, benefit his business, in return for things of value. and things like, you know, vacation weekends, lavish meals, other, you know, gifts in kind. and the interesting thing is, you have to break it out in my view between ethics violations versus a criminal violation. >> megyn: much better to be subjected to the investigative grand jury than the indicting grand jury, it sounds scary. >> no question about it. >> megyn: can one turn into the other? >> that's a great question o th some investigating grand juries will issue a report and
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uppe you're familiar with that and the other months of investigation, a federal prosecutor can say we have a proposed indictment and read the language and go through it with you. but that is well down the road. >> megyn: what takes it to the level. up until now, there have been reports at that senator menendez allegedly made use of, frequented, solicited the services of prostitutes in the dominican republic, something he absolutely denies, and then -- but then they said that his friend, dr. mel gen had hooked him up with the alleged prostitutes, but a separate business whether he was using senatorial powers in a way-- there's the operahthalmologist and because the friend did him favors from, i don't know whether the prostitute things shakes out or not, but donations and other cases. >> you're making a great point which is that very often an investigation starts looking at one thing and then once you're on a government radar
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screen, megyn, all of a sudden, something else may come across the screen. now, interestingly from a pr standpoint, the senator seems to be, at least initially latching on to sort of an interesti interesting-- the prostitution thing has no validly and objective records seem to confirm that and therefore neither does the other one. one does not flow from the other and in point of fact, this does seem to be some indication that the senator, a, was involved in some type of rule, regulation that could potentially benefit this individual and b, that that individual himself was under scrutiny for billing practices with medicare and government billing. >> megyn: and this is video of the fbi raid on the doctor's offices back in january. >> yes. >> megyn: and that's got a lot of people's attention because he's such good friends with senator menendez and then some reporters started to dig deeper and the miami herald has been doing work on this and washington post started to say what is the connection between the two men and turns
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out the senator has done a lot of pushing for legislation that would help the good doctor here and the questions then became why is he doing that? and whether there was anything improper. i want to ask you this, former federal prosecutor. >> right. >> megyn: what are the odds that the feds give two nickels about dr. melgen? is that the kind of witness they'd sit down and say, let me tell you mr. ophthalmologist and wanted to become a high roller in the dominican republic. we're not concerned about you, but if we have a u.s. senator, they look for the big fish. do they try to flip him? what do they do? >> the reality it's like a continuum across the board. so many senators anytime public officials spend weekend at somebody's expensive home, meals, gifts in kind, and then the point is, once they then take some action on that person's behalf, then you clearly have an ethical problem. whether it's a crime, you know. >> megyn: how do you get to
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that point, doug? a lot of the senators have friends. what if senator menendez is good friends with the doctor and he has a nice pad in the dominican republic and admitted he flew down in the corporate jet and should have reported that and made good on it once he got caught. how do you draw the lines, we're friends and do nice things for each other versus he's buying my behavior as a u.s. senator. >> i'm going to break it down into three examples. example one is the person in florida hosts him for a weekend, take him out to dinner and the senator does nothing. and the example two, hosts and has dinner and makes a phone call on his behalf using the weight and clout of being a senator, just to throw in a call. example three, maybe make it four. he tries to pass legislation, and number four, a wire if you pass legislation to help me across the board.
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>> megyn: and the senator did introduce legislation or take some official action on behalf of this man that would help this man, but there's a question whether there was a quid pro quo there and he says there were many reasons for doing it, it wasn't just to help the friend. the senator says every day, nothing, but an elaborate campaign orchestrated by republican political operatives and claim that the office welcomes any review because his actions have always been appropriate. doug burns, we shall see. >> thank you. >> my pleasure. >> megyn: a little background on the senator, since 2006 he was a senators and a member of the house before that. and before that, two years in new jersey's state senate and mayor of union city, new jersey for a time. well, just a few months into her husband's second term and rumors are swirling, again, that first lady, michelle obama could follow in hillary clinton's footsteps. and may be getting ready to run for public office on her own. we'll look at those claims right after the break.
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and a widow sues her church for refusing to install her husband's nascar inspired headstone. they say it doesn't fit the decorum of the cemetery. once you pay for your own plot, who has the ultimate say? they took his money. that's coming up in kelly's court. and republican senator ted cruz coming under fire for the heated exchange with democrat dianne feinstein over gun control. was he out of line? we debate, you decide. >> and protection against searches and seizure could only apply to the following specified individuals and not to the individual that congress has deemed outside the protection. >> senator i've been on this committee for 20 years. ♪
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>> well, just about everyone is feeling the effects of
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rising gas prices and the labor department reporting that consumer prices rose 7/10 of a percent in february, which is the biggest rise since 2009. the reason, data shows that three quarters of the increase was because of rising gas prices, which claimed nearly 10% last month. when you take gas out of the he equation, consumer prices rose just 2/10 of a percent. well, just three months into her husband's second term and rumors are swirling about first lady michelle obama's plans after the white house. it comes in the vogue cover story the recent in high profile coverage for the first lady and even talk of a hillary-michelle ticket in 2013. hillary-michelle has been trending on twitter. while the first lady shrugs off the rumors, there are others who maintain she would make an excellent white house candidate or candidate for the illinois senate. the same job her husband once
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held. doug schoen is a democratic pollster and fox news contributor now. you worked for the clintons. >> i did. >> megyn: hillary is the front runner on the democratic side with respect to joe biden and in the polls and some are saying that the dream ticket for the democrats would be clinton-obama, but not the guys. >> well, it certainly would be a good ticket. i think more likely, megyn, is that michelle obama, given that she's now and will probably continue to lead the illinois senate polls against mark hurk will get pressure to jump in the senate race and i don't preclude anything. >> megyn: really? >> really. >> megyn: why? she seems to be thriving in her role as first lady. what has she done to suggest that she has political aspirations of her own. >> she hasn't done anything. if i was advising her i'd tell her to keep it at that.
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with the obesity initiative and pro family agenda and all around role of loving spouse and mother, she's in great shape, if not the most popular person of america. >> megyn: i think the same approval rating of hillary clinton. 61% which is very high. >> extremely high. >> megyn: but it changes once you put yourself out there and start running for office. >> yes, and that's exactly where i would draw on my own experience. hillary clinton had, as has now been public, private meetings in the white house as she planned her transition from first lady to senate candidate. and i would tell you that, megyn, michelle obama, if she wants to run, the best thing she can do is deny it up until the end, meet privately with supporters, and then as late as possible, turn her attention to illinois and she will be, i suspect, leading the polls with no shortage of fundraisers. >> megyn: really? >> yeah. >> megyn: what about the vice-preside
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vice-presidentsy though? that's more intriguing, the vice-president who versus the senator from illinois is. she doesn't have any political experience although she's been in the white house for what will have been two terms by the time she comes out. i mean, that's kind ever like hillary clinton. she was always sort of a successful lawyer, as was michelle obama and she had not been a politician in her own right before she ran for senator of new york. >> the operative word like hillary clinton. which makes it less likely. i think that hillary clinton would look at michelle obama has a great asset running in illinois, but not necessarily she would want to team up with. >> megyn: why not? >> similar backgrounds and tag her with the record of obama and now starting to slide in the polls, i think she's going to want to maintain the independence. >> megyn: there are bumper stickers reading first-first lady tickets and it would be two former first ladies running for the white house.
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>> i don't minimize the potential appeal that kind of a ticket might have. >> megyn: and don't forget the appeal of two former presidents as the first guys. >> well, that's, that's probably the equal of two former first ladies. >> megyn: how is that dynamic where you know the clintons, how does that dynamic work if bill clinton were the first guy, the first dude as sarah palin calls todd palin, and the first gentlemen. and barack obama goes as the first man in the white house and ribbon cutting ceremonies. >> the idea of bill clinton moving back into the white house and the he president moving to the naval be observatory. >> megyn: can you imagine how confusing for the secret service, wait, which one do i have the president. which president, the former president and then the other former president, do i have the current president, it would be a disaster. >> and i think there's enough confusion and doubt and uncertainty that we're more likely to get hillary running
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and i think she will, but i think there's a reasonable chance michelle runs in illinois hoping that in four years if hillary doesn't win or if hillary were a one-term president that she might be able to take the step you're now decribing. >> megyn: the reasons that people are starting to buzz about this again because she's been so visible so far in the second term. i mean, with vogue and the late night appearances and so much more of the first lady than we saw, really, in the first term. >> whatever she does, she has an extraordinary appeal, extraordinary popularity and i think it would be a mistake to rule anything out. >> megyn: wow. time will tell. >> time will tell. >> megyn: all right. doug, thank you. a fiery exchange offer the constitution and gun rights getting a lot of attention on capitol hill. did texas senator ted cruz go too far in confronting dianne feinstein over the second amendment yesterday? and helping to free an american pastor from a
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notoriously brutal prison in iran. and once again they've jailed an american believing he's preaching against their tenets. and some accuse the obama administration of not doing enough. and in effect leaving him behind. >> they keep saying, does daddy not love us anymore? does daddy not want to hear our voice anymore? and i have to tell them that he was in prison because he loves jesus and that he loves them very much. my mother made the best toffee in the world. it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom.
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>> and i think the state department's refusal to appear
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before this committee today is extremely troubling and frankly offensive. the failure to appear today and to testify, frankly, is inexcusable. we've had some dialog with the state department over the last several months and i'll be honest mr. chairman-- the lack of concern, the lack of engagement has been problematic in regards to pastor abideedinabedini. he's a united states citizen and he's us, our state department is not here for him. >> megyn: and of course you recognize that man, many of you. that was jay sekulow for the american center for law and justice and a frequent guest on this show. today, he took the state department to task about an american pastor who is being held prisoner in iran. jay sekulow and his group are trying to help the family of saeed abedini, the husband and father of two now faces an eight-year sentence in one of iran's most notorious prisons for practicing christianity
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and there are hopes today's hearings will help put pressure on the government to do more to free this american citizen. molly henneberg live in washington with more. >> that pressure may be working. although state department official showed up today for the human rights hearing on capitol hill, the top u.s. diplomate may be getting involved. fox news has learned that secretary of state john kerry is supposed to be talking today with the g.o.p. leader of the hearing, virginia congressman frank wolf to discuss abedini, a naturallized u.s. citizen and christian pastor facing eight years in iranian prison. and he has learned that the top official on u.s. religious freedom will meet with his wife. he had been working setting up an orphanage in iran and arrested last year. now she says he's being beaten
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in prison because he won't renounce christianity. and she had to explain why their dad wasn't doing skype computer chats with them from iran anymore. >> does daddy not love us anymore? does daddy not want to hear our voice anymore? and i have to tell them, that he was in prison because he loves jesus. and that he moves them very much. an attorney for the abedini family says a state department official told the wife just yesterday as he she was about to fly to d.c. for the hearing that she was partially at fault for the u.s. government not getting involved. >> moments before her flight and said you've never asked us for help. you've never asked us for help. your attorneys may have communicated and you may have been on the phone calls, even, but you've never asked us for
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help. as you can see they knew this hearing was about to happen and they're trying to cover their tracks. >> reporter: the state department has said on the record previously, including just last week, that abedini quote, should be released immediately and the u.s. is deeply concerned that the iranians have not yet granted access to him. megyn. >> megyn: molly henneberg, thank you. well, a grieving indiana widow is suing a church for refusing to install her late husband's headstone. why? well, because it's got a reference to nascar, to the indianapolis colts and a couple of other things that he really loved while he was alive. is that legal? can the cemetery do this to you? we take up the case in kelly's court. plus, republican senator ted cruz getting attention for his exchange with democratic senator dianne feinstein. was he patronizing her? we'll debate it next. >> i'm not a 6th grader. senator, i've been on this committee for 20 years.
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i've studied the constitution myself, i am reasonably well-educated and i thank you for the lecture.
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>> president obama is about to speak at a green energy event in illinois. he's at the argone national laboratories outside of chicago where he's pushing for the creation of an energy security trust fund that he says would be focused on getting america off oil. if you would like to watch the
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remarks, you can go to where the event is streaming live. well, lots of attention for a story we brought to you yesterday on this broadcast. texas republican ted cruz and california democrat dianne feinstein, two senators had a tense exchange about gun control and the second amendment. when mr. cruz challenged mrs. feinstein over how congress can limit rights upped the second amendment, asking hype highly if she thought it was okay to limit rights under the first amendment or the fourth amendment, free speech and search and seizure, here is some of that exchange. >> this does not prohibit, you use the word prohibit, it exempts 2,271 weapons. isn't that enough for the people in the united states? >> ms. chairman. >> do they need a bazooka? do they need other
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high-powered weapons that military people use to kill in close combat? i don't think so, so i come from a different place than you do. i respect your views. i ask you to respect my views. >> nobody doubts her sincerity over passion and yet at the same time i would note that she chose not to answer the question that i asked, which is in her judgment would it be consistent with the constitution for congress to specify which books are permitted and which books are not. >> the answer is obvious, no. >> megyn: well, some critics slammed senator cruz for being rude. others thought he had a point. here is radio host mark levin, "the washington post's" charles krauthammer and starting this exchange off or this sound bite montage is senator fieinstein not long after that exchange. >> well, i just felt patronized. i felt he was somewhat arrogant about it.
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>> i thought cruz was also the manner in which he asked it, i think it appeared a little bit offensive. i don't think that cruz helped himself, but on the general argument feinstein's, even though it won in committee is going to lose. >> the idea that professional public officials, career senators, albeit temporary, that is they may have a career in the senate, but they won't be there forever, the idea that they can fundamentally alter the bill of rights is unacceptable to those of us, you, who understand what it mea means. >> megyn: well, did senator cruz go over the line? turning now for a fair and balanced debate. ben ferguson of the icon radio network and host of the ben ferguson show and simon rosenburg, founder of a think tank and form clinton campaign
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advisor. wow, has this gotten a lot of pickup, pow, a lot of focus on something that, i mean, i think we all agree right now has no chance of passing. and yet, it brings up a lot of dynamics that we've seen in the gun control debate and are people being respectful of one another's views, is one side trying to alter our fundamental constitutional rights. your reaction to it, ben. >> well, i think the biggest issue that ted was bringing up, the senator was saying, look, who are you to decide what gun i can and cannot have based on you basically saying i know there's a bill of rights, but as one senator think all of these guns on my specialist are inappropriate for you. he she said, do you think you should be able to have a bazooka, dianne feinstein should no that it's alrey illegal to own a bazooka in america. and who are you to decide which guns i'm to own because
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the constitution says you as a person should not go out and give your special dianne feinstein list, she put them on the pegboards in washington d.c., here ever the ones you shouldn't be able to have. >> megyn: before i get to simon, ben, do you think he was rude? >> no, i don't. i think it's time we have people who are blunt in front of washington and blunt in front of the cameras and why not be blunt to one another and get something done. >> megyn: simon same question for you and give you some color from, you know, a right wing critic who says she doesn't think, ann coulter, she doesn't think it was being rude and she actually thinks that we need our politicians, especially female politicians to toughen up, go in there and don't say he was patronizing and rude, go in and say i'm a u.s. senator, i can handle it. >> i think that anyone who knows dianne feinstein knows she can handle herself. and i think what she's saying, there's a tradition of decorum in the senate, the way that
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senators talk to each other historically in settings like this tends to be a level of bipartisanship and friendliness that is an old tradition and i think that there was a sense that this rookie senator from texas kind of violated the rules, the unwritten rules of the senate yesterday by the way that he challenged, you know, the chairman of the committee. i think on the other issue of the argument itself, and i'm not a lawyer and you are, megyn, you know that the role of congress is to interpret the constitution as things change over time, with the constitution is over 200 years old. it wasn't perfect. in fact, we've amended it, made changes to it. and congress's jobs is to apply those principles to new and changing circumstances. clearly, i think it's within the rights of congress to be able to determine what types of arms are able to be born by the american people and carried by the american people and certainly, we've done it before as was said, bazookas were not legal and the
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speech-- >> here is what i want to get to. and i've said this publicly because i don't give my political opinions, but i give my legal opinions because that's an area in which i have some expertise and i said this on o'reilly, ben, there is no question that congress has the right to limit our second amendment rights to some extent. now, to what extent there's a question about, but the supreme court of the united states held recently, and this is from heller, like most rights, the second amendment right is not unlimited. it is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. so why was senator cruz going after her on whether one can limit? why wasn't he talking about whether it's smart to limit or should limit has been decided? >> because dianne feinstein doesn't want to debate or
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discussion about the limits. she's come out with her law which says everything will be perfect and some of the weapons which logically doesn't make sense. and if you challenge him she says you're a gun crazy rookie cocky freshman and how dare you come in with all of her seniority to question her authority. and my point is this, i had a gun put to my head, this is a personal issue for me, the gun bought illegally, used to shoot at me from five feet away was not on the list of special weapons. so i would say to dianne feinstein you might want to add one. the problem is where do you stop adding and that's why the list doesn't work and that's why asking her, can't one senator go out and decide what guns are perfect and what guns are inappropriate to decide in society as she has done it, and he was challenging her on that and he should be doing that. >> megyn: is it one senator? that's how we started the segment, simon. it doesn't take one senator,
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it takes 51 senators and then a majority of the house and the president in order to pass a law where elected representatives would say these are the the guns we think you can have and can't have and that's something for history doing in done in 1994, the n.r.a. never challenged the constitutionality of that law. >> well, megyn, i think part of what we're seeing there really hasn't been a debate about gun violence in the u.s. in a long time and i think some of the arguments the gun rights advocates are using aren't very good ones, frankly, because they haven't been challenged in a public setting. i think the argument that senator cruz made yesterday was a little silly. and i think the other argument that gun rights advocates how we've developed a culture of violence in the united states is equally silly. crime is half of what it was, violent crime is half of what it was 20 years ago. we've seen a plummeting of violent crime in the united states. the only measure of violent crime that's gone up in any way is the number of people shot who have been going to hospitals, which is an
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indication that guns are-- there's too many guns so i'm going to finish, ben. >> megyn: okay, i'll give it to you, ben, next. >> i think the point is their arguments are stale and they've got to do a better job. >> megyn: go ahead. >> i don't think our arguments are stale because 50% of the gun crimes committed last year unfortunately in the country there was a gun involved were suicides and that number has skyrocketed so you have to look alt the actual context of the number and not paint with a broad brush. that somehow guns are making this world a horrible, terrible place. you have to pass sensible laws that deal with mental health issues, that deal with criminals, that deal with black market guns like the one used against me. but the core of what bothers me the most is you had a senator asking about the constitutionality of an issue and he brought up a comparison with books, and they said it has no place in washington. well, there's no place in washington for this, where can you debate the constitution of
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the country. >> megyn: before we go. when she said to him, thank you for the lecture, wasn't, and reminded me he of the geraldine, george w. bush moment. remember the debate they he were both vice-presidential candidates and she said something like i don't have to be lectured to you. and it worked because waste sowaste-- he was sort of talking down to her, he was older than she was and she stood up. and this one dianne feinstein is the senior one and ted cruz is the junior one and maybe should have played the senior stateswoman, all right, moving on. simon? >> happy friday, megyn. looking forward to the weekend. thanks for having me on today. >> megyn: all right, guys, thanks for being here. >> okay. >> thanks for having us. >> megyn: coming up next, an indiana woman is suing a church over its refusal to install her late husband's
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nascar-inspired headstone. what's so wrong with this. that's next. oh this is lame, investors could lose tens of thousands of dollars on their 401(k) to hidden fees. is that what you're looking for, like a hidden fee in your giant mom bag? maybe i have them... oh that's right i don't because i rolled my account over to e-trade where... woah. okay... they don't have hidden fees... hey fern. the junkrawer? why would they... is that my gerbil? you said he moved to a tiny farm. that's it, i'm running away. no, no you can't come! [ male announcer ] e-trade. less for us. more for you.
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>> kelly's court is back in session. on the docket today. a widow in indiana is suing a catholic church over its refusal to allow her late husband's nascar-inspired headstone. shannon carr says she spent $9600 on the black granite stone. it's shaped like a couch and features images of things her husband loved, a deer, a dog, collar logos of nascar and the indianapolis colts, but the church says, no way. so, does she have a case? joining me now, keith sullivan, and mercedes colwin, an analyst. and i earlier said that the church took the money, but that wasn't true. she paid that $9600 to the company that makes the headstones and did the church
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ever say she could-- she could place it here? did she ever rely on anything the church said or did, mercedes? >> you hit it right on the head. that's exactly what she's going to say. wait a minute, you didn't tell me i couldn't use this particular tombstone, now that i've purchased it and spent a fortune, a lot of money for a headstone, about four times what it usually costs, now you're telling me i can't do it where are the rules and regulations and dimensions. the church will say we told you this. where is it in writing. when you purchase the plot you have with the church, there are spes if ications and they don't have it there, the church will lose. >> megyn: what's the objection? >> there's no writing or document that says she could put that highly objectionable tombstone in the cemetery. it comes down to two simple words, congress and contracts. let's start with contracts, when you obtain and you pay
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for a cemetery plot, that's a contract. and you're bound by the rules and regulations of the cemetery. in this particular situation, it was very specific, what the size, what the type was, what could and could not be placed on the tombstone itself and the church made it very clear to her. granted like mercedes pointed out, she was a grieving widow and issues and maybe documented. >> megyn: they didn't put anything in writing. nothing in writing at the time she bought that headstone. >> there's nothing in writing. and let's look at congress, the constitution says congress cannot establish nor prohibit the free exercise of religion. if a state judge instructs this catholic church to accept this cemetery plot, this tombstone they're in essence carving out exceptions to, and dictating the rules and regulations of the cemetery, it's a clear violation. >> it's nothing to do with religion. the fact there's a headstone, nothing to do with the practice of religion. we know what the constitution
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says, we're all lawyers on the panel. there's nothing to do with whether the headstone can be on or not. it boils down to what was in the contract. not what was said. when there is he' a contract pen to paper and people agree on terms and that holds here, there's nothing in there specifically. by the church's own admission he we told her. you know why? and do you know how old he was? he was almost 32 years of age. this is a shock, he died in a head-on collision and you're talking to the grieving widow, this is not someone lamenting a loved one that's going to die. this is a total shock. >> megyn: that's why people are saying the church isn't showing compassion. they're saying the church isn't showing compassion to the widow and she's acknowledging the things he loved. we saw the picture of the dog, the colts, the nascar logo, but the church apparently feels, keith, that this is, you know, these are secular messages it's going in a catholic cemetery and they say they've had the same policies in place even in writing or not since 1907. >> absolutely. and what's going to happen next?
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it's a slippery slope. a person who loves starbucks coffee or tea, should it be a banner or billboard for starbucks. >> megyn: what about a guy who loved hooter's? >> better example. >> megyn: just saying. >> i love that one, judge, adopt your example. >> the catholics church is saying-- >> when everybody got outraged when he they found out pope francis are anti-abortion, there are rules for the catholic church and following them for centuries. and maybe the rules require a certain standard of headstone in a catholic cemetery they say the woman should have understood before she went out and spent 10 grand. >> and the-- >> i know the argument, but that's boring, go ahead, mercedes. >> she's going to turn around and say would i have spent almost $10,000 on a headstone if someone said i couldn't do that. >> megyn: they said they did. they said she submitted the plan to them and when they saw it, that's not going to fly, a different headstone. keith final word. >> they told her weeks before
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she laid out the money. but it's a contractual issue and shouldn't be there. >> megyn: and look into before you drop ten grand on a headstone. and yesterday, the prank with jeff gordon. wait until you hear the truth.
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>> the catholic church making history in choosing the first pope from latin america, that man former cardinal jorge bergoglio from argentina made history by becoming pope francis, the first time anyone in the papacy has chosen the name of st. francis of assisi.
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amy kellogg is live in rome. >> reporter: hi, one of the francisc franciscan friares i met said perhaps there hasn't been a francis because the world wasn't ready for one. they're excited about the new pope and think he's going to rock the world and change the way people think. now, st. francis, whom this pope is named off, lived in the 13th century, he was called even a playboy or a 13th century version of one. he was born to a rich merchant family, therefore he could afford to live the dream life, but had a dream to led to his conversion, become a champion of the poor and shunned wealth and possession and embraced lepers and loved nature and rebuilt the church physically and spiritually. people in the assisi are of the belief that pope francis may move people in a way that
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st. francis did nine centuries ago. >> i think the church message is to give us an alert. there are many poor people that are dying that can't live a life, a decent life. so the pope, i think, will give us this message so that the rich and the poor-- and so, i think this is a clear message that i hope that the people will accept from the pope. >> reporter: now, the pope has said to his countrymen already, megyn, that instead of spending lots of money on pilgrimage tours to assisi, he wants them to spend their pesos on the poor at home. >> megyn: amy kellogg. thank you. we'll be right back. sure does! wow. it's the honey, it makes it taste so... well, would you look at the time... what's the rush? be happy. be healthy.
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