tv Tucker Carlson Tonight FOX News September 21, 2017 8:00pm-9:00pm PDT
balanced, will never be the establishment, destroy-trump-media. thank you for being without us. we'll see you here tomorrow night. ♪ ♪ >> tucker: good evening, welcome to "tucker carlson tonight." for more than half a century, hollywood liberals and america's foreign policy establishment eyed each other with suspicion. from vietnam to iraq, actors were often thest harshest critis of whatever wars washington was pushing at the time. a lot has changed, though.h. the rise of donald trump has caused elites from across the spectrum to realize they have a lot more in common with each other than they do with thecr american middle class.s. suddenly, liberals in l.a. are warming to the idea of pointless foreign wars. rob reiner is an actor, a director, a liberal. he now has a group designed to investigate russian interference in the last election. he has joined forces with all
kinds of pro-war conservatives in washington. here is their latest ad. listen carefully.nd >> we have been attacked. we are at war. the free world is counting on us for leadership. for 241 years, our democracy has been a shining example to the world of what we can all aspire to, and we owe it to the brave people who have fought and died to protect this great nation anu save democracy, and we owe it to our future generations to continue the fight. >> tucker: so there is morgan freeman working for rob reiner in league with longtime war enthusiasts in washington like david frum and max boot telling us we are at war. when does the bombing started exactly? we sat down with rob reiner to
ask him that question. watch. so we are at war. how would you respond if president trump took you seriously and sent the b-52s to st. petersburg or blockaded the gulf of finland? would you support that? >> when we say we are at war, we are talking about a cyber war. >> tucker: it doesn't make that clear. it just says -- morgan freeman, who everyone trusts -- his voice, immediately trust, we are at war. if you don't really believe we are at war, where are you saying it then? >> if you watch the entire video, it talks about cyber warfare, it talks about how he was able to use the internet and cyber tools to attack thee democracy, which is what they did. >> tucker: but shouldn't you say somewhere in there, we are not really at war. just kind of taking creative license, it's not really war.no we shouldn't respond as if you were in a war. why not say that so you don't confuse people?
>> i say if you watch the whole video --t >> tucker: i did. >> you wouldn'ty be confused about it. the thing that i have always felt is that, you know, people don't really understand the capacity for cyber warfare beyond the obvious stuff of hacking into people's computers or using the internet, you know, facebook, we now find out that they were using facebook to push out certain kinds of propaganda. propaganda has been around forever, you know, so we have had plenty of propaganda.ve >> tucker: i've noticed. speak at the point is, beyond the propaganda, that have been used, the there are other aspects to cyber warfare russians have used it, and we have to make people aware of the capacity of this cyber warfare beyond sowing distrust and confusion in democratic society.
>> tucker: a couple of things. first, you have allied yourself with people like max boot and david frum, who have long advocated for real wars, hot wars. both of them were big advocates iraq predicated on the idea that saddam had weapons of mass destruction. i think you made a movie on that. but are you a little concerned, you have wound up linked to people who are advocating and have for decades a series of actual wars where people die. are you comfortable with that? >> we have people on all sides. we have james clapper, the director of national intelligence, many supporters. norman lear. we have liberals andny -- hawks and doves, as you say,no on both sides. we are not advocating going to war or going into a traditional
war with russia, but we are already in a cyber war with them. if people want to turn their heads away from that, it is at their own peril. the point i'd like to make, and this iss important for people to understand, because this really doesn't have anything to do with donald trump. trust me. because donald trump, whatever happens to him is going to happen to him. there are already investigations. mueller is going to find what he finds. the house and senate have their own investigations. they'll find whatever they find. but beyond that, we have been invaded in a certain way, and the thing that has been so upsetting to me -- and i don't know how old you are, tucker, but i can remember when i had to hide under a desk during the cold war in the '50s because we were worried that we were going to get attacked by a nuclear bomb. and whenever the country has been attacked in one way or
another, whether it was pearl harbor or 9/11, we have always come together as a country to defend ourselves against enemies, foreign enemies, you know? and this is the first time, because i think we are divided as a country, and we know we are, want to bring us together. >> tucker: here's part of the reason. i agree with you. we are very divided, and maybe this is one of the reasons. a lot of this is deeply disingenuous. anyone who looks at cyber warfare will tell you -- any honest person will say -- the chinese military is the primary culprit in the united states. hacked into the white house not that long ago and almost every federal agency. nobody said anything.g. you guys in hollywood sell your movies in china. you bow to the imperatives of their propaganda and censorship. you change your movies to suit them. yet no one says we are at war with china. so you are sucking up to this regime that has actually broken in and stolen industrial and military secrets that have hurt
this country.as you say nothing until hillary clinton loses, and now, all of a sudden, we are at war with russia. can you see why some of us are saying, wait a second, rob reiner, we are at war with china. why are you selling your movies over there? fair question? >> i'm not giving china a free pass here. >> tucker: of course you are. you guys in hollywood sell your movies and you allow theire censorship office to change your movies in order to make money. >> i don't personally do that. >> tucker: everybody who sells a movie in china does that. you know that. kind of b.s.ing a little. that's real. right? >> here is the difference, tucker. the chinese have done some stuff, we've done stuff way worse too. >> tucker: but we're going to judge russia because why? it doesn't make sense. >> you're not letting it make a point here. >> tucker: go ahead. >> we know about stuxnet, we
know the capacity for cyber garfare. it's not just hacking into computers and stealing information. it's about using that information and weaponizing it in some way. now, you can weaponize it in propaganda, which it has been done in this way, or it can be actually weaponized in a physical way to disrupt power plants, water supplies, and so on. the russians have done that in the ukraine. like i say, stuxnet, we did that in iran. this is not a surprise. the point is, we are at this point where you have two understand the capacity so we can put in place the kind of measures we need to defend ourselves. >> tucker: i agree with everything you just said. >> i love that you agreed with that. >> tucker: you didn't answer my question. >> what was the question? >> tucker: the question is, ifee china is auc bigger violator in the united states than russia, and i think everyone agrees that
it is, why are they not in your movie? >> china has not insinuated u themselves directly into our democratic process, into our elections. >> tucker: are you serious? of course they have. they stolen information directly from the u.s. government, from our political figures, from the pentagon, the cia, the white house. if they're not in our political system, i don't understand. >> i didn't say they're not in the political system. of course they are. what i'm saying, they didn't utilize that material to try to affect an election in some way. >> tucker: you can see by it some of us are maybe a little skeptical. maybe you're not selling as many movies in russia as you are in china. anyway, good luck with y david frum and max boot. nice to see you. >> good to see you. >> tucker: willis krumholz, writes at "the federalist," has covered the subject prettysu extensively.
i don't want to be cynical, but i find it striking that the united states has been the subject of repeated cyber attacks by china and i didn'ttr hear anybody on the left say anything about it, and all of a sudden, they have phds in cyber warfare and are calling for war with russia which, if anything, is less an offender. is it all political, do you think? >> yeah, it seems like so now, ltucker. you're exactly right that there is, to say the least, some ideological inconsistency in the d.c. establishment and on the left when it comes to our foreign interventions, and when it comes to how we see china ano how we see the rest of the world. >> tucker: it does seem that way. let's get back to the core claim here, and that is that russia hacked our election or hacked our democracy. we have talked about it for ten months now. i'm still not sure that i understand how exactly russia hacked our democracy.
are we certain of that? >> no, we are not, tucker. let's talk about the dnc hacks specifically. first of all, true or not, the entire narrative of russian election interference started as a hillary clinton campaign talking point. the dnc only announced it was hacked by russia two days after wikileaks had information that said the clinton campaign and dnc were colluding to mistreat bernie sanders. that provided the clinton campaign an incredible talking point going into the democratic national convention to distract from the fact that they were mistreating bernie.g the second thing is that the fbi repeatedly asked to examine the dnc servers, and the dnc repeatedly refused.f crowdstrike, a privaterv cyber security firm, bought and paid for by the dnc, with ideological ties to the clinton campaign, looked at the dnc's servers.
we have to trust that when crowdstrike passed along information to the fbi, that was an accurate representation of what was on the dnc servers at the time. third, let's say we trust the democrats, the forensic, or the information that showed a hack passed along to the fbi were far from conclusive. a lot of the evidence is being used in a way that is analogous to saying, look, tucker, i'm at a crime scene. i see an ak-47 on the ground. the shooter must be russian. there is a logical flaw in that, and the obama administration agreed there was a logical flaw in that, and that is why they waited the entire summer of 2016 to attribute that hack t to russia. when they did so, they did so under somewhat suspect circumstances. >> tucker: it would be striking to conclude, as we may at some point, that all of this was built on error or a lie. very specifically, why did the dnc not allow federal investigators access to their servers? was there a reason for that? >> we really don't know, tucker.
that is kind of the problem here is that it's not that russia for sure did or didn't interferesu in our election, but the degree to which russia interviewed in our election is definitely open for debate and open for more investigation, and this is one of the areas we don't have good answers on why the dnc refused access. go ahead, tucker. >> tucker: it's just -- just the whole thing. we've altered the course of our usreign policy. we changed american political history. you put the entire city on hold, and no one has answered the most basic questions, like, what happened. willis, thank you for joining us. >> thanks for having me on, tucker. >> tucker: of course. according to new reports,. president obama's u.n. ambassador tried to unmask the identities of spied-upon u.s. citizens, not rarely, but on a daily basis, sometimes once aid day.
up next, what this says about the ethics of the obama administration, and the obvious question, which is, why were they doing that, exactly? plus, hillary clinton didn't focus on the electoral college and she lost. now she says it is time to get rid of the electoral college because it is a threat to democracy or something. we'll talk about that just ahead. ♪ people spend less time lying awake with aches and pains with advil pm than with tylenol pm. advil pm combines the number one pain reliever with the number one sleep aid. gentle, non-habit forming advil pm. for a healing night's sleep. it's ok that everybody ignoit's fine.n i drive. because i get a safe driving bonus check every six months i'm accident free. and i don't share it with mom! right, mom?! righhht. safe driving bonus checks. only from allstate. switching to allstate is worth it.
says it could take six months to restore electricity. the emergency director bluntly stated the island has been "destroyed." so far, two deaths have been reported, but there is a lot we don't know about what is happening there. we will, of course, keep you updated as we learn more. efforts by the obama administration toef unmask u.s. citizens unwittingly caught up in intelligence efforts -- in other words, people who were spied upon and didn't know it -. appeared to be much greater than anybody knew or guessed. according to sources interviewed by fox news, samantha power, who was obama's u.n. ambassador from 2013 to 2017 and a political aide before that, made almost daily requests to unmask the identities of u.s. citizens, e ten with no obvious reason for doing so. power previously has denied any role in leaking classified information about u.s. citizens. joel rubin was the deputy assistant secretary for house affairs under obama,, and he
joins us tonight. thanks forcr coming on. >> my pleasure. thanks, tucker. >> tucker: so this is exactly the scenario we were assured would not happen when one of these periodic debates about spying on american citizens breaks out, for instance, the nsa. we were told, there is no chancg anyone is going to spy on you, and if you're talking to someone who is being i spied on, your identity will remainch secret. now we find that a very political appointee,d samantha power, no background, just appointed, was unmasking s people at the rate of more than one a day. what could possibly be a legitimate explanation for that? >> tucker, it is interesting, i was a career officer in a classified position at the state department, and we would
oftentimes read intelligence reports. first thing in the morning, we would do what they called a read-in. sometimes names would show up that were american, but they would be blacked out, so one wouldn't see it. essentially, that is masking. what happened is, the americans end up getting caught uprt in surveillance when the u.s. is targeting adversaries, and at the u.n., there are many adversaries, as you know. there are many countries who want to do us harm.ma so our government is surveilling those governments and american names show up, that is what happens, and those names get masked.me it is important to understand what is going on. are these americans being targeted? are these americans up to no good? that is oftentimes really what's going on. >> tucker: how many terror attacks do you think samantha power thwarted by unmasking the names of over 200 americans? >> honestly, it's not samantha power unmasking the names. what would happen is, there would be a request into the fbi, the national security agency, whether or not to unmask. they determine whether or not those names get unmasked.
an official, a diplomat in this position, can't ask to target or identify certain individuals and follow them. there really are rules of the road in how this proceeds. >> tucker: it doesn't seem like it. just to be totally clear, and contrast with you, samantha power, not a career diplomat. a very low-level journalist, a freelancer, then an obama staffer, and at some point she worked at harvard as an academic. so she is a political person. don't you think we should be a little uncomfortable that she put in a request of more than one a day for unmasking as a political person? that doesn't bother you? >> if her role was a political person, i could see your point. but she was the u.s. ambassador to the u.n. cabinet level position. strong bipartisan support. she has to be looking out for a national security at the u.n. and there are bad guys at the u.n. y o there are bad guys at the u.n. there is north korea, iran, russia, china, saudi arabia.
these countries are looking to do harm to the united states in many instances, and we should know what they're up to and who they are talking to. andal if there are american nams popping up, that is a question that needs to be figured out. >> tucker: i think these were -- by definition, i think these were american names. we have a fourth amendment, don't we, that says that you can't -- a criminal investigation, i'm the investigator, i come upon information for which i don't a have a warrant, i can't use that in the prosecution. i have to put that aside because i don't have a warrant.he she didn't have a warrant. how did she get an exemption from the fourth amendment? just because she is samantha power? >> i'm not sure that's actually what happened. i don't believe we have seen leaks of names. frankly, i don't know where the numbers are coming from that we are discussing, because it sounds like there is leaking going on about this activity. but it appears that this was held in a classified setting, as
it should be, and it has continued to stay in a classified setting. i'll leave it at that. these are classified discussion discussions. i don't think we have seen a plethora of american names coming out in the press of folks who were surveilled. >> tucker: actually, we have.ks [laughs] i mean, you saw it with a number of people in this administration who have been impugned and, you know, maybe they did something wrong. i don't really know. but all the information that we have about what they did or didn't do comes in the form of leaks. here is the bottom line. the intel community is now acting as a political player in our country. is that a good thing? are they supposed to bebe doing that?? i didn't think they wereey supposed to besu doing that at all. >> i would be the first to agree with you that leaks arere dangerous and we need to ensure there is no leaking. we don't know the source of the leaking here. that's very important. there are two congressional investigations. i was a congressional staffer.th congress is notorious for leaking, as you know.
what we need to ensure that names are protected and that as investigations are underway that the investigations go forward without that kind of noise happening. i do agree with that. >> tucker: yeah. i hope michael flynn did something wrong because his life has been destroyed by those. >> well, yeah -- go ahead, tucker, please. d >> tucker: well, we're out of time. we don't know y anything other - people are getting hurt. they are guilty. good to see you. thank you, joel. congressman in both parties are finding themselves under attack by radical left-wing protesters. up next, we'll talk to one, a sitting member of congress, who says his home was attacked by a group of activists.. stay tuned. can we do this tomorrow? (grunts of effort) can we do this tomorrow? if you have heart failure symptoms, your risk of hospitalization could increase,
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>> tucker: even top democrats aren't safe from protesters on the left. just this week, nancy pelosi had to flee a press conference after she was surrounded and shouted down by a mob. watch this. >> yes, i am. you do not. you don't know what you're talking about. >> tucker: so that is a democrat, the top democrat in the house, dealing with the left. what is it like to be a republican? congressman jason lewis can speak to that. he is one. he represents minnesota. recently, his home was besieged by 19 protesters who he said invaded his property and scared his neighbors. congressman lewis joins us
tonight for a recap. thanks for coming on. >> you bet, tucker. good to be here. >> tucker: what happened, exactly? >> i'm down in the district and get a text from my neighbors. hey, jason, 19, 20, 25 people on your front step screaming and yelling, and his daughters were next door, called her dad, who called the police.p they left, i believed, before the police got there. but these are people that don't think the rules applied to them. i was elected as a republican, but now i don't govern -- they reserve the right to crash our office in violation of security protocols, to crash town hall and prevent other people from speaking, and even trespass and violate a city ordinance. it is getting a little out of control. >> tucker: coming to your house seems especially threatening.. if people behave in a rude wayle in public, i don't like it, but your house is yours, and that seems like a private sphere that they are violating. what did you do in response?
>> i'll tell you what i did in response.at i put up a facebook post saying that i was appalled and this has got to stop. everybody condemns violenceeb on the right. after charlottesville, we all condemned that. where are the democratic leaders, especially now after pelosi's experience, condemning this dangerous movement on the left? and it is becoming dangerous, make no mistake. >> tucker: did you tell them to get the hell off your lawn? >> well, i wasn't there. >> tucker: you never went home. >> i wasn't there at the time.e my neighbor texted me, i got home after they were gone. luckily, my family wasn't home at the time either. >> tucker: who were these people? >> this is a group funded by a big public union called take action minnesota. they also crashed our office. they have been doing this, ratcheting it up. i think there is a collective
temper tantrum being thrown by people who didn't win the last election. and they keep ratcheting things up because they're not getting any ears. we'll crash the office, we'll videotape in the office when we are not supposed to. we'll crash a town hall and not let other people talk in productive dialogue. if that doesn't work, why, we'll trespass and we'll invade somebody's home. there needs to be leadership on the democratic side of the aisle to say, you know what, enough of this.. er >> tucker: so they got your home address. these are labor people, but imagine if they had been antifa: people in masks with 2x4s, bear spray, knives, the kind of things they had brought to rallies recently. why wouldn't that happen? why wouldn't that start happening? what are you going to do if that happens? >> i think the town hall situation is why it's not going to happen. i shouldn't say it's not going to happen. the reason so many republicans arepe scaling back on town halls is precisely because of what you described might happen. they want to hold the first
democratic or left-wing rally of 2018 and call it a town hall. that is not free speech. that has nothing to do with a townr hall. if it could happen in a town hall, n you're right, it could happen anywhere.h >> tucker: so when you're in washington, in the congress, and you see your colleagues on the other side, do you ever your supporters showed up at my house, scareded my neighbor's kids, maybe you should pull them back. do you ever say that to them? >> i have mentioned it a couple of times, but these people are ideologues. they are dedicated to the cause and they need these left-wing activists. i think they know that. look at medicare for all. this is socialized medicine. a few decades ago, that would've been the kiss of death in the democratic party. now democrats are falling all over themselvesbe to have government run and controlled health care. this is the base of the democratic party today. it is no longer jfk's democratic party. >> tucker: no. are you kidding?
he would be yelled off the stage as a bigot. it's one thing to have q key views and believe in economic theories that don't work, but it is the violent undertone. that seems like a new development to me. >> actually, if you are as old as i am, it's not. remember the fdf, weather underground, the democratic convention of 1968, there has always been the strain of righteousness that okays violence within the hard left. the 1960s were proof positive of that, and unfortunately, we may be revisiting that again. >> tucker: congressman, thank you. it's horrifying. >> you bet. >> tucker: the case of debbie wasserman schultz's rogue i.t. aid keeps getting stranger. up next, we'll tell you about the women in his life repeatedly called police to report his violent, threatening behavior. plus, hillary clinton says it is time to overturn two centuries of tradition and get ridt, of te electoral college. we'll talk to a radio show host
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use cars.com and save. >> tucker: we've got an update on the increasingly bizarre story of imran awan, the i.t.e worker who remained on congresswoman debbie wasserman schultz's payroll, even after he was determined to be a security threat and was only fired after being arrested on federal charges while trying to flee the country. not a good sign. wasserman schultz has since suggested that awan was only you targeted because, of course,d racism, racial profiling, islamophobia. she didn't bother to ask me how that worked. meanwhile, awan's attorney insists that his client is "a husband and father, not a political pawn." also pretty predictable respons response. now police reports show that the women in awan's life repeatedlys reported him to the police. one woman accused him of treating her like "a slave." awan's stepmother said awanim oe had kept her imprisoned at home
and threatened her by saying that as a congressional staffer, he had the power to tap her phone, hurt her family members, even have her kidnapped. a third woman called the police after a domestic dispute, andhe although no arrest was made in the end, police officer at the scene found dried blood on awan's hands. news foundation contacted all 17 democratic women who once employed awan's services seeking comment on this.oc 15 of them refused reply at all. hillary clinton went on her recent book tour to tell america what happened, and it turns out that what happened is that hillary clinton became the country's biggest sore loser. in a recent interview with cnn, she called for the abolition of the electoral college which, for 230 years, has dictated the election of the u.s. president. watch this. >> do you think the electoral college should be abolished? >> i said that in 2000, after what happened in the 2000 election with al gore.
we have moved toward one person, one vote. that is how we select winners. i was amused after the french elections when i was looking to do an interview with a french w electoral expert, and he said, "unlike your country, the person with the most votes wins." i think it needs to be eliminated. i'd like to see us move beyond it, yes. >> tucker: leslieee marshall is a talk radio show host, and she agrees with hillary that we ought to abolish the electoral college. she joins us. leslie, good to see you. >> good to see you, tucker.sh >> tucker: so pardon my skepticism, but this last election seems to have changed the views of liberals on many things.ed for almost my entire life, liberals supported russia, particularly when it was soviet russia. now they are against it because hillary blames russia for her w loss. the electoral college has functioned for a couple of centuries. a prosperous, happy country. now we have to abolish itou because she doesn't like it. can you look right into the camera and say if hillary had
lost the popular vote but h won the electoral college, would you be for abolishing it? >> i would, tucker. before i was a democrat, when i was in college and i was an independent, i was against the electoral college then and i still am now. regardless of the outcome of the election. i must admit, in our history, five elections have gone against democrats in favor of republicans with the electoral college versus the popular voter but that is honestly not why. as a democrat, i'll take the advantage if it comes up, but i don't think it's an advantage. i think it is a disadvantage. i am in an state in california where numerous people will say, my vote doesn't count, and that includes many republicans who think it is going to get a democratic candidate anyway. unfortunately, that is true. there is something to one voice, one vote. i believe -- and i love a democracy, a true democracy. even though we operate as a republic, i would like to see a majority rule, even if my candidate loses. by the way, the president himself back in 2012 said the electoral college was a disaster
for democracy, and he changed his mind as well. it's not just us liberals who change their minds. >> tucker: i'm not surprised. let's take what you're saying seriously. if we are going to have a one man, one vote system, pure democracy, as you said, real democracy, then we've got to abolish the senate because it is not, of course, democratic. a senator from california represents 40 million people. a senator from wyoming represents a little over half a million. it is not one voice, one vote. it is totally skewed. you get rid of the senate, right? >> i think when you have progress in a nation and you change, certainly our country has changed in the past 230 years, from the late 1700s until now. not just our demographic, not just how many states do we have now compared to then. honestly, and i know they'ree going to get mad at me in rhode island, but to have two people representing rhode island and two people -- you mentioned the state i am in, california -- representing the population of this state, which is larger than
some nations throughout the world, no, i don't think it's right. and i know you're going to be -- >> tucker: you want a direct democracy? are you ready for the consequences? gay marriage wouldn't be the law of the land. it lost in california, as you know. global warming, not even an concern for most people. you'd never get a carbon tax under a direct democracy. you have to change the population of the country. in other words, the idea that the majority rules, it's a great idea, and i'm for it. i'm more on the populace side. but pure democracy would disenfranchise rich liberals, the ones who run the democratic party, completely. their ideas have no popular support. is that a concern for you? >> i don't think their ideas have no popular support. i understand what you're saying about a vote in california. you have to look at the demographic of the voters and the language of that ballot measure here in california.
on a national scale, polls show that most liberal social issues are actually viewed favorably by both left and right, whether it is legalizing marijuana, gay marriage, and things like that. honestly, tucker, most fiscal issues left and right are moreso agreed on. people, even democrats, even myself who are more fiscally conservative. i think it would work out. quite frankly, i want everyone to feel that they have a voice, and in this state of california where i live and the rest of the states in this country, i know many people don't. but look at how few people vote in our elections. >> tucker: [laughs] i love it! people voted this time, the public said they want something different, they elected trump -- everyone in l.a. has been having an aneurysm. >> how many people voted, tucker? how many people voted? out of the amount of people that
can peote vote, how many people? >> tucker: leslie, i don't know. people who care vote. i'm happy with that. leslie marshall, thanks for joining us tonight. great to see you. >> thank you, tucker. you too. >> tucker: a christian t-shirt business is being sued because it wouldn't make shirts for a gay pride h parade. the store's owner has been denounced and is in legal trouble. we'll speak with him next to find out what is going on. leno he'd be stopping for more pills right now. only aleve has the strength to stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. aleve. all day strong. tcan help protect you from the unpredictable. and the distracted. its cameras, radar and sensors can help prevent just about any surprise. well, almost. lease the gle350 for $609 a month
>> tucker: this country has had sex offender registries for an awfully long time, but now a new form of registry is being considered in a lot of places, a registry for animal abusers. last year, tennessee became the first state to create a public registry of people who abuse animals. similar registries exist in several major places, including chicago's cook county. statewide laws have been published in massachusetts,
arizona, and elsewhere. you've got to hope that a lot of other states will join tennessed in doing this. animals are basically powerless. you can do whatever you want to them, which is why you shouldn't. your relationship with them is governed only by empathy, and the public ought to have a way of knowing who among us doesn't have it, who among us thinks it's okay to abuse or torture shose weaker than them. it should matter, the people who do that. if you hurt an animal, it says a lot about how you'll treat people. a print shop in kentucky is under siege tonight because its owner, who is a christian, doesn't want to endorse a gay pride event. blaine adamson is the founder and owner of hands on originals in lexington, kentucky. in 2012, he declined to print a series of gay pride t-shirts for an upcoming gay pride festival. he says he serves gay customers all the time and even employs gay employs, but he doesn't want to print materials that conflict with his religious beliefs. for that, he spent the last five
years in court. blaine adamson joins us tonight along with kristen waggoner. of alliance defending freedom, of the legal group, the biggest in the world, they are representing him in court. welcome to you both. >> thanks for having us. >> thank you. >> tucker: thank you for coming on.co blaine, the obvious question first, and you say that it is not a question of disliking gay people, but that you have a religious problem with this. explain that, if you would? >> absolutely. i'll print for anybody. it doesn't matter who you are, it doesn't matter who you are, what your belief system is. what matters is what messageho you're asking meur to print. we have shown over the country of our history that we employ gay employees and we also print for gay people. it just depends on the message they ask us to print. one specific example, the very pride festival we had an issue with, there was a lesbian band
named mother jane. we printed shirts for them. it wasn't because they performed at the event. it wasn't about who they are, it was about what messages we were being asked to print. we find that we have to decline messages often because ofe my convictions. >> tucker: it says in your bio that you have declined to print shirts that you thoughtht were anti-christian, but you've also declined to print messages you thought were antigay.ug >> absolutely. one in particular, a shirt that says homosexuality is sin. as a pastor, i don't think jesus would have gone about it that way. jesus was a master of grace and truth. my conscious didn't feel like something that was i would -- wanted too print. >> tucker: you don't seem like someone who should be sued over this. i'm a little confused, because we do have the first amendment.
can't someone say what he wants or not say what he wants? can you really compel someone to say something he doesn't believe? >> you're absolutely right. the constitution protects blaine and others. it protectssmein the right of creative professionals not to b. forced to create messages, express messages, or celebrate events that violate their core convictions. if we want that freedom for ourselves, we have to extend it to those with whom we disagree. >> tucker: could i be sued for not writing a certain kind of novel or not having a certain kind of guest on this show? i'mno serious. could i be, by k the left? >> you are spot-on, tucker. these laws will be applied to the left as well as the right. could a republican speechwriter be forced to write for a democrat? we are seeing these laws beo applied across the united states, and there is a case pending right at the supreme court that has thesepl issues. it is whether someone can be forced to express messages and convey ideas that violate the core of who they are. >> tucker: i would think that gay rights groups and christian
groups and everyone would agree with what you just said. blaine, quickly, how has this affected your life? five years,nkt probably not makg millions printing t-shirts. this has got to be pretty tough on you, i would think. >> it's just one of those things you kind of get through. we just continue on doing what we love to do, which is print t-shirts. i love doing what i do, so we just keep keeping on. >> tucker, one of the unique aspects of blaine's case, people of both sides are on blaine's >>side. we do have hope that tolerance is a two-way street here. >> tucker: and they absolutely ought to be. unfortunately, we are out of time, but i really wish you both luck in this. thank you very much. >> thanks. >> tucker: up ahead, president trump has had plenty of critics who compare him to some of the worst figures in world history.
one of those critics had a surprisingly different attitude a few years ago. we found an amazing tape. you've got to watch this. stay tuned. nothing works faster stronger or longer what pain? advil. hi..and i know that we have phonaccident forgiveness.gent, so the incredibly minor accident that i had tonight- four weeks without the car. okay, yup. good night. with accident forgiveness your rates won't go up just because of an accident. switching to allstate is worth it.
>> tucker: on this show, you've heard from plenty of democrats and some >> tucker: on this show, you've heard from plenty of democrats and some republicans who described donald trump as one of the most evil and also buffoonish humans in history. a dark fusion of adolf hitler and nathan bedford forrest and-caret top. was he always that despicable? this is jesse jackson describing the current president. watch. >> thank you for being with us tonight. we need your building skills, your gusto people on wall street represent , diversity. we thank you for coming tonight. let's give donald trump a big hand. >> tucker: we asked reverend jackson to come on and explain when did trump get so evil?
his assistant declined, saying his schedule was "jam-packed." you bet. our friends on "the five" are ready to go. that's it from us tonight. see you tomorrow. ♪ >> dana: hello, everyone. i am dana perino. here with kimberly guilfoyle, juan williams, jesse watters, and brian kilmeade. it is 9:00 in new york city and this is "the five." ♪ tonight, president trump turned up the heat on north korea adding economic pressure on top of his fiery military threat. he widened u.s. sanctions in an effort to further constrict the defiant regimes trade with the outside world.he >> today i am announcing a new executive order we just signed. it significantly expands our authorities to target individuals, companies,tl financial institutions that finance and