commented on the police department post thanking me officers for how they handled the call. starbucks, take note. thanks for watching speed 27, i'm john roberts in washington. "the story" hosted by martha maccallum starts right now. high matt, martha. >> martha: hello there, john, good evening to you. breaking tonight, look out below, this is a story that is about to heat up in ways that could get very uncomfortable for some powerful people. as jeffrey epstein looks for ways to potentially minimize his future jail time. once known as an international moneyman of mystery, social circles included president for life and princeton. behind the walls of his mansion prosecutor say he was running a sex trafficking operation and in a bizarre legal proceeding that played out in florida, he got what amounted to a very sweet deal. but this time the southern district of new york has esther

epstein, and this thing may be about to get very ugly. >> he is alleged to have abused dozens of victims by causing them to engage in sex acts with him at his mansion in new york and at his estate in palm beach florida. the victims were all underage girls at the time of the alleged conduct, they were given hundreds of dollars in cash, the underage girls were initially recruited to provide epstein with massages. these massages became increasingly sexual in nature and would typically include one or more sex acts. >> martha: applicable. that's where it allegedly happened. they say if they broke into a safe and there, they just announced this today and said that they seized hundreds of nude photographs of underage girls and the reports we've seen number 14, 15 years old to years

old, marched in and out of this house over and over again over the course of these years. today epstein pleaded not guilty. reports are in some of his address books over the years, and we have to be very careful here because these people that you are looking at right now have not been accused of anything at all, but he did have contact with them, reportedly flying on his private plane, bill clinton did several times in the early 2000s and in fact, bill clinton has just put out a statement, breaking news on this this evening, i'm going to show it to you in just a moment. also, now president trump way back in 2002 called him a terrific guy. over the years, some of his associates were caught up in actual accusations involving epstein. a young woman says that she was forced to have sex with his friend prince andrew and his lawyer alan dershowitz. both of these men have vigorously denied these claims. buckingham palace called it false and without any foundatio

foundation. alan dershowitz says the accuser is a proven liar. in 2008, epstein struck what i has now been called the deal of a lifetime with florida prosecutors. he pleaded guilty to only three charges, despite a 53 page investigation that resulted in an fbi indictment. he went to jail for only 13 months, but during that time he was allowed to leave, go to his office during the day, and then check back in in the evening. the prosecutor handling the case at that time was alex acosta, who is now president trump's labor secretary. here he has during his confirmation hearing because as you would imagine, he was asked about his role in the case back then. watch. >> at the end of the day, based on the evidence, professionals within the prosecutor's office decided that a plea that guaranteed that someone goes to jail, that guaranteed that

someone register generally and that guaranteed other outcomes is a good thing. >> martha: so my next guest demanded after reading explosive story that came out in the "miami herald" just about a year ago, asked the department of justice to look into just how that whole deal in 2008 him about and whether or not there was a way to reopen this case on different grounds and the doj could open this brand-new layer of investigation. nebraska senator ben sasse will join us here. thank you very much for being here. what was it about this case that drew your attention so stronglt you involved in reopening it? >> this is what government exists to do, to protect the powerless and the voiceless. so many things in washington, d.c., that got the government does it has no business doing, but this is what government is for. it's to defend weak victims like all these girls. now many of them i guess our

thirtysomething woman, but these little girls were raped by this guy and traffic by the sky and the "miami herald" reporting from late november and early december is really incredible and those journalists did some really extraordinary work and service to their neighbor and i would share the judiciary committee's oversight subcommittee and i reached out to the department of justice repeatedly in december and january saying they have to reopen this investigation. >> martha: with regards to mr. acosta, the labor secretary now, you hurt his explanation at that hearing. he says that the evidence merited the deal that they struck, that he has to register as a sex offender for the rest of his life, that he did serve time, and he believes that there was nothing wrong with the agreement. what do you say to that? >> lets draw few distinctions. first of all, as an objective matter, this guy victimized dozens, probably scores of little girls, and the sentence he got was pathetic and every mom and dad in america, frankly not just moms and dads, but

anybody with a heart, should be heart know my heart broken by what happened here to those girls, to those victims, but also with the absurdity of the sentence that short. now there are two coinvestigations. i started demanding this in december. fortunately the attorney general barr during his confirmation hearings in january pledged the doj would reprioritize this issue and in february they started an investigation, but we should establish between two of them. if the criminal matter of pursuing jeffrey epstein right now is a southern district of new york investigation and is disgusting and sick as the story is, this is good news today that they have opened this investigation. lots of good prosecutors there and the fbi have been looking into this case, so that's a great investigation. the other thing is happening is the office of professional responsibility inside the department of justice has been looking at the question of how could he have gotten this ridiculously light slap on the wrist sweetheart deal? so what that he's a billionaire? so what that he's rich and powerful and has the best lawyers money can buy? he victimized a whole bunch of people and law should be on the side of those little girls.

>> martha: i'm sorry. one of the shocking things about the deal that was struck, just to put in as an aside here, is that it also basically absolved anybody who had anybody to make any connection with him in any of these situations, any of the people whom have also been there, is that right? >> it looks like the nonprosecution agreement -- i want to say we're getting there some really technical legal matter so i'm glad we have a southern district of new york pursuing this prosecution investigation, but the nonprosecution agreement looks like it protected people who were raping those little girls in palm beach, but it looked like it didn't extend to manhattan, so that's what the southern district of new york has been able to do in reopening this case. i don't want to comment about the particular people inside the chain of command in the department of justice ten years ago, because there's an ongoing investigation now that the office of professional responsibility is conducting and they are going to be reporting back to us in the judiciary committee and then we will have a lot more to say. >> martha: this tweet came from the daughter of nancy pelosi, she said this epstein case is horrific and the

young women deserve justice. quite likely that some of our faced are implicated, but we must follow the facts and let the chips fall where they may, whether on republicans or democrats. the dangerous thing here is that we have -- people cross paths with him. these are extremely awful suggestions here. if president bill clinton just put this statement out, very forceful statement, moments ag, saying he had absolutely nothing -- knows nothing about the terrible crimes that epstein included to pleaded guilty to or with he has recently been charged in new york. he went on to say he has not spoken to them in well over a decade and has never been to little st. james island epstein's ranch in new mexico, or his residence in florida, which is where a lot of this supposedly played out. there's a story in "the new york post" today, pictures of the two young women as they read in court. court and while was 14 years

old, she said, and i was in braces, he said, she said that he convinced her to bring 70-80 girls were 14 or 15 years old. on the left is michelle, who said that she was told to give massages that became increasingly sexual in nature. how different the question is -- i think of these young women and the tragic stories, or basically kidnapped and they are held against their will in these cases and everyone sort of understands that an even more questions are raised, why didn't you just run away, why didn't you give up? there's all kinds of psychological things that come in play here that prevent them from doing that. do you see a parallel here? >> first all, we should just admit that human trafficking is a scorch of our time. we celebrate the fourth of july last week, and america that moved forward and included everybody without regard to race in the great american story until the end of slavery is something that we celebrate in

america, rightly, but i don't think a lot of americans understand are actually more slaves on the globe today than at any point in human history, it is a scorch and we need to pursue this. government has a whole bunch of stuff that shouldn't have any interest in, and to regulate the size of her softness. they should be doing a lot more with this. this isn't a time for people to say as a republican or a democrat, going to be implicate it. every american should stand on the side of those little girls. >> martha: absolutely. we will follow this case as it moves forward. senator sasse, thank you very much for being here tonight, great to see you, sir. >> thanks, martha. >> martha: coming up next, someone we haven't heard from in a while, rick perry on why he is speaking out after the president's big speech on the environment today. ♪ before discovering nexium 24hr to treat her frequent heartburn, marie could only imagine enjoying freshly squeezed orange juice. now no fruit is forbidden. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts

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>> martha: president trump today touting the successes of his administration's efforts to promote a healthy environment, arguing, interestingly, that he says a robust economy and clean energy are not mutually exclusive. watch this. >> for years, politicians told americans that a strong economy and a vibrant energy sector were incompatible with a healthy environment. a strong economy is vital to maintaining a healthy environment. we are unlocking american energy in the united states is now a net exporter of clean, affordable american natural gas. we are exporting all over the world. >> martha: here and out in a story exclusive tonight, energy secretary rick perry. secretary, good to see you tonight, thank you for being with us. >> thank you, martha. >> martha: the fact that the president was even giving a speech on the environment raised a lot of eyebrows and had sort of critics going, "really?

we don't think this is really a priority for the administration." what do you say? >> i'm always amazed that people would say that. this president does care about the environment, and he's doing something about it. when you think about the clean energy that america is delivering around the world, whether it's in the form of liquefied natural gas, or whether it's in our renewable technologies, whether it's in our nuclear energy technology going around the world, we are displacing literally tons and tons of old, dirty-burning gas emissions and coal emissions in europe and replacing them with clean-burning natural gas. the president has got a great story to tell, not to mention the jobs that get created and the wealth, and the quality of life that comes with that. i don't find it odd at all that president trump is talking about the environment, talking about the economy. >> martha: he definitely has a

different approach. i think the epa under president obama was criticized for being too aggressive in terms of increasing regulations that businesses felt were unfair in many cases, and you all have worked to roll those back. the epa isn't even an agency that we hear a lot about in the trump presidency. we haven't heard from you a lot on this front, why is that? >> well, i don't know why you haven't heard from me a lot, i travel internationally a substantial amount. all across the country, 36 different countries now are buying liquefied natural gas from the united states. and frankly, the epa shouldn't be heard from him, when i think about it. this ought to be an agency that's out there doing its work, getting rid of the regulations that are stopping businesses from getting done getting to what they need to do and put in practices that help clean up the

environment. america is leading the world in the reduction of energy-related emissions. that's a great story, it's one that you we are to be parroting and talking about and being quite proud of. so thursday when we had a great tribute to american and american military, one of those stories was about american energy, and the freedom that's being delivered around the globe by american lng in particular. >> martha: has been a great story, no doubt about that. the critics, as i mentioned, we talk about the rollback of these regulations, also epa data shows an increase in particulate matter emissions like soot and smoke from the combustion of coal and oil since president trump took office. what would your response be to those who point to that? >> number one, i think they are wrong in their numbers. when you look at what's happening around the world -- >> martha: that's epa data. >> you may see that from the europeans from the standpoint of

what they're doing and the standpoint of the increases in particulate matter, but i don't find that to be the fact they are in the united states. i think we are removing those older inefficient power plants. i will give you a good example in a state of texas when i was the governor, knox emissions went down -- the sulfur dioxide emissions went down by 50%, we had an almost 20% reduction of carbon dioxide. so the fact is that as we put more old inefficient plants off-line and replace them with liquefied natural gas, with gas plants basically, you're going to see continual reduction of emissions in particulate matter. >> martha: last question for you with regard to climate change. 62% of americans believe that global warming is caused by human activity, do you agree with them? >> listen, the climate is changing, there's not any doubt about that. we can have arguments about it isn't happening for this reason or that, here's what i think we all agree on that we need to live in a world that has cleaner

air. america and american natural gas, american innovation, that's what's going to change the world from the standpoint of having clean air. so america leading on that. if this president is leading on that, and regardless of what your politics are, you want to celebrate the victories that the united states is having when it comes to the environment. >> martha: one last quick one. in april there were a bunch of stories that said you were thinking of leaving the agency. what do you say about that? >> i'm still standing. >> martha: are you going to be there for the remainder of this term and into the next if the president wants to keep it there? >> if the president wants to keep me here, i have a pretty good idea i'm going to be standing and doing my work and continue to work with him and continue to work for the american people to really drive the economy in this country. >> martha: great to see you tonight, do come back soon. thank you very much. >> you're welcome. >> martha: joe biden defending his record on civil rights saying that his friend,

president obama, can bout do my best friend. what do the obama for a lesser degree? anthony scaramucci and donna hill up next. >> he apologized today. >> i do not. >> okay. ♪ if you have moderate to severe psoriasis, little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla.

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you gotta use "these" because we don't mean it. buy any pair at regular price, get one free. really. visionworks. see the difference. ♪ >> let me ask you a quick 2020 question before i let you go, because there was a report that you were quoted as having set out in the event and its emphasis go, don't tell anybody but i'm announcing in two weeks. we went outside for presidency in two weeks to run? >> i did not say that, but i will tell you i've made a decision, i will announce it soon. >> martha: what a difference a

few months can make in this whole crazy process that we are watching today, congressman eric swalwell's presidential aspirations this time around officially ended. he pulled the plug on becoming the first 2020 candidate. he dropped out of the race today. 24 -- what are we down to 24, 23, maybe something like that. announcing he will instead seek reelection in congress. >> today ends our presidential campaign. but it is the beginning of an opportunity in congress with a new perspective shaped by the life that have touched mine and our campaign throughout the last three months, to bring that promise of america to all americans. >> martha: some of these other folks also tonight -- former vice president joe biden defending his record on civil rights over the weekend. this was an important moment for him, this speech. he was trying to remind voters in south carolina of his record

and also of course that he worked for president obama as his vp. >> i was vetted by he and ten serious lawyers he appointed to go back and look at every single thing in my background. from finances commit to anything i've done, everything. and he selected me. i'll take his judgment about my record, my character, my ability to handle a job over anyone else's. >> martha: the damage when former first lady michelle obama was asked the question. here's what she said. >> what would you like to say about the dust of? he apologized today, you've been following that, do you have any thoughts on that? >> i do not. >> okay. >> i've been doing this rodeo far too long. >> okay. >> no. >> martha: no.

donna brazile, former dnc chair and fox news contributor. what do you of that reaction from the former first lady? >> you know, my nieces, they attended that concert and they heard the first lady and they thought she was right on point. her message to encouraging unregistered voters to vote, when carole king did what i call that really tough round of questioning about or not she would support one of the candidates, she said no, we will wait until the primary is over. >> martha: hold on a second. if it was not the mustaches that have said look, i don't have any comment on that, but obviously joe biden is very close to us. he was the vice president for eight years with my husband's administration. none of that. there was no -- it was just like no comment. >> look, i agree, martha, that this was the right answer for the former first lady to give. democrats are on a shopping spree. we want to look at all of the

candidates. we want to test them out, we want to make some judgments of our own, and we need obama's in the long run to help us pull out the vote. >> martha: i think you could do both in a slightly more gracious way. >> i strongly disagree. i think it would be premature for the obamas to come out and put their hands on somebody. let us put our hands. we want to touch these candidates first. >> martha: that's already been a problem. >> i guess i'm not supposed to be on to defend the first lady but i just have to say i wish i said more comment more often. that would have helped me out a lot. in all seriousness, i think she's 100% -- has to do what she did there, so i sort of agree with donna there, because she can't really come out for the vice president right now. if you look at a tradition, and the obama are basically traditionalists, they're not going to go out and endorse or try to say anything that's going to skew the situation. clearly they like vice president biden. it was the vice president for

eight years of the obama administration. if they are very close. >> martha: the message was not how much we love joe biden. >> i know you don't like the body lingered, but i understand -- >> martha: you're working on a campaign, you're not super excited about that moment. that's all i'm saying. that's all i'm saying after eight years of service of the vice president. >> barack obama was his vice president -- michelle obama was vice president, you have to say the same thing in that situation. >> that's right. absolutely right. >> martha: elizabeth warren brought in $19 million with no fund-raisers in q2. i know you think that's a pretty big deal, donna. >> you know why? because she has so much grassroots support and energy. over the weekend i saw several of the candidates, and i have to say, she was one that struck a chord with the audience along with kamala harris and mayor pete. so i really do believe that she is not only building a really good, strong grassroots

foundation, but she's holding all of these town hall meetings all across the country. she's a sleeper in this race, we better pay attention. >> martha: it's early on and i hear you. let's put up the numbers for q2. president trump we know, a huge hall, $54 million, not including the other 50 that the rnc frozen. buttigieg 24.8, biden, bernie sanders at 18. she's far from the list right now, donna. >> yeah, but you know what, you can be number five, but the fact is she has enough money to get her message out, to build the grassroots campaign in the early states and i do believe that she, like many of the others, she's running a terrific campaign so far. >> martha: quick thought, i want to put this up there, president trump is at 44%, career high approval rating right now. anthony, is that a good time to be peaking mike i'm sure you can see him go further. >> i think is going to office we go further. the economy seems to be getting stronger every month, so that's

very positive. the one thing that's hurting the democrats right now, if you add up those four and 74 million versus 54 for the president. too much confusion in the democratic party causing confusion. >> martha: we will have a vaccine for mcgray to have you both. >> good to hear from you, anthony. >> same here, donna, nice to see you. >> martha: thank you very much. they were once hailed as the women shaping our future. now there seems to be a bit of dispute over what that future should look like. and nancy pelosi seems a bit set up tonight. tammy bruce and geraldo rivera take that on next. >> you have these wings, aoc and her group on one side. >> it's like five people. ♪ they really appreciate the military family and it really shows. with all that usaa offers why go with anybody else? we know their rates are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. it was funny because when we would call another insurance company, hey would say "oh we can't beat usaa"

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♪ >> martha: tonight, an alliance of progressive females in the house are lashing out at their speaker, nancy pelosi, after she called out their "squad," for not supporting an emergency border aid bill.

one of those squad members is freshman congressman alexandria ocasio-cortez, who fired back today on twitter with this saying "a glass of water could have beat a 20 year incumbent. the green dream, or whatever." those are not close for me, she writes, they are from the speaker. having respect for ourselves doesn't mean we lack respect for her. in moments, tammy bruce and geraldo rivera take this on. but first kristin fisher has the back story to me. >> martha, these tensions have been simmering for some time, but they really started to boil over after this for progressive freshman house democrats opposed the border a bill that was supported by speaker pelosi. congressman alexandria ocasio-cortez, ilhan omar, but she had to leave and ayanna pressley opposed the bill on the grounds that it did not go far enough to help migrants at the border. they also didn't like the idea of giving more money to fund the president's border policy. speaker pelosi dropped the house bill and went with the senate

version instead. things really heated up over the weekend when speaker pelosi was interviewed by "the new york times" and seemingly downplayed the freshmen for 'influence by saying "these people have their public whatever and their twitter world, but they don't have any following. they are for people, and that's how many votes they got." well, those four people have been firing back on twitter and on tv. congresswoman omar called pelosi's comments "pathetic. you know they are just salty but who is wielding the power to shift public sentiment these days. sorry, not sorry." and here's congresswoman rashida's message right here. >> on at the fact that we are there, that 650,000 people are representative by each every single one of us. >> it is very disappointed with the speaker would ever try to diminish our voices in so many ways. speaker pelosi's deputy chief of staff says the speaker was simply responded to a question about the criticism that this group of freshmen democrats have

leveled against her personally. he said if you throw a punch, you have to be prepared to take a punch. martha, there is now, i think it's safe to say, plenty of punching on both sides. >> martha: it looks like it, thank you very much. joining me now, tammy bruce, president of the independent women's voice and a fox contributor, and geraldo rivera, fox news correspondent at large. tammy, let me start with you, what you make of this schism? >> on one hand it's kind of good news because a lot of people have argued that women are all going to govern the same. if you get women in there, they're all going to the great, they will be better than men, they will be fabulous, whereas women, as i've always argued as a feminist, women are propagated as men are. women can be as bad as men or as good, or as wrong or as right as men have been. and this is a good example of that. here you've got five women in the same party, very, very different points of view, and going after each other, but there's a reason why nancy pelosi has been in congress for very long time and seems to understand that you can't punish people or abandon

them based on your politics and wanting to hurt, as an example, president trump. there needs to be money at the border, real lives are being affected. and at the same time, they argue, the squad, if you will, that they seem to think it's twitter that matters. "the new york times" made it clear a couple of months ago that the average democrat is not on twitter, that these are the extremes. it's a matter of being i think experienced enough to understand what the difference is between the actual grassroots and what's going on in social media. >> martha: geraldo, what do you see in this battle? >> i see is the gender play -- rather as a chronological place rather than a gender play. a few of the four young horsewoman of the resistance versus old queen pelosi. the four kids, the youngest ever, aoc, the first palestinian, first african refugee. the first black woman from the commonwealth of massachusetts,

these are seminal historic figures of the younger generation, and they want all of it. they want it now. they want the green new deal. they want free college tuition. they want medicare for everybody, which is great, everybody wants it, but nancy pelosi, very impressive, 79 years old. in many ways i think she's more effective now than she was the last time she was speaker of the house. she saw that there was a dilemma at the border. if you have these horrible conditions, the four young women were complaining bitterly about, heartfelt complaints, drinking water from toilets and yet they were opposed to the bill to fix the problems they are complaining about. why? because they were worried president would use some of the money for the border wall. >> martha: as we put it out here, that doesn't help the kids sleeping on the floor. this is brian fallon, who managed hillary clinton's campaign. "the four house freshman who pelosi dismisses in the column have done more to define the vision and moral center of today's democratic party that

all the message bills pushed by the party leadership combined." my question is, do you agree with him, tammy? do they represent the party? >> that's the argument, isn't it? conservatives at others in the republican party say this is representation of what the democrats are, but if you look at social media, i suppose that might be the case, but look at this. aoc argues that she is a representation of what the nation once. only 11% of democrats voted in her race, and she only won by 4,000 votes. that is not a representation of not just at the nation, but the democrat party itself. but this is the war right now, the civil war, if you will. who is going to end up representing in? i think the democrats are going to be stuck with this if they don't go out and vote and abandon the responsibility, because then individuals who don't represent what the average american who happens to be a democrat wants are going to be represented by that. >> martha: geraldo, last word on this. it's because you have to be idealistic.

you have to be aspirational if you're a young person. if the world oyster. there will be plenty of time for compromise as you mature in office. >> martha: i hear you, geraldo. >> let them be the buckaroos. >> let them in when they've got some age and experience and what they're doing. >> martha: you know what, that's what the election process is for and the people in the district will decide whether or not they love what they are selling in washington are not, but i know where geraldo is coming from and i think there's always room for that young energy, just determines whether or not that's where the voter's. it's a quick term of two years, so we'll see. thank you very much, good to see you both tonight. thanks. if coming up next, one of the most contentious confirmation hearings in modern history and tonight we are bringing you the inside story of what happened behind the scenes during brett kavanaugh's fight to get on the supreme court. from two people who were granted unprecedented access to all the

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♪ >> i'm not questioning, and have not questioned, that perhaps dr. ford at some point in her life was sexually assaulted by someone in someplace, but what i know is i've never sexually assaulted anyone. >> martha: that was quite a moment. that was then-supreme court nominee brett kavanaugh defending himself against explosive sexual assault allegations here on "the story" just days before his contentious confirmation process captivated the nation. now there are brand-new details about what was going on behind the scenes at that time from coordinated efforts on the left to derail kavanaugh's confirmation, including paying protesters, to revelations that the term team held back dirt on accuser christine blasey ford

with the understanding that "any criticism of ford would be treated as a smear and depicted as victim shaming." that was not the way they wanted to go. all this was captured in a very fascinating new book that is out tomorrow, "justice on trial: the cap and a confirmation in the future of the supreme court." coauthors mollie hemingway and fox news -- and carrie severino, policy editor. great to have you here. if the book fascinating. throughout the course of the day today. what surprised you the most? >> there was so much that was interesting but without this was a very important story and what the country went through was very difficult. we interviewed more than 100 people, the president, supreme court, senators. what really struck me was the stories of courage, like ashley kavanaugh, who prays that her husband is not going to get the nomination. she's gone through this before, she knew how brutal it was. once she gets that she there with him. after she does your show, her hairdresser recommends she comes in for a touched up and while

she's there she has to deal with the revelation of some completely scurrilous allegations about serial gang rape and what it was like to go through that. it women like we are -- women like we were in kaiser will try very hard to support a friend. a lifelong democrat who did not want kavanaugh confirmed to the supreme court, and she was pressured and to come up with something to support a friend. she was unable to. if you remember that summer very well. she does not remember anything that would help out christine was a ford and ended up having to tell the fbi that. that's amazing courage given her political views. >> martha: carol, what about you? >> so many exciting things. we were both involved in this process, or as a journalist covering it, me working a group that was really supportive of his nomination. we kind of thought we knew it all. one of the fun stories without trust of the mike justice kennedy retired, able to do so without anyone finding out. not only coordinating this, he had a former clerk of his who worked in the doj will be met

secretly with that wanted to see the smithsonian sculpture garden to tell him get this to the white house. don mcgahn has to get this to the president somehow. he wasn't even officially told kennedy was retiring. the first person kennedy told bill he was the president himself and what was even more interesting to us is finding out that there were actually the other supreme court justices were surprised as well when he told them right before he headed over to the white house, they said we didn't even see it coming because he had been -- he had been hiring clerks, talking to the next term as if it was coming. i thought that was really -- >> martha: must have very much wanted to keep it to himself. his decision, and he succeeded in doing that, which isn't so easy these days. i was of course interested having done the only interview that brett kavanaugh did, and as you point out, the only enemy that is supreme court nominee has ever done. it became obvious to the people that were working with him on his nomination that he had to go out there and he had to respond to these allegations. in fact, the gang rape allegation came out late the night before her early that morning so i ask him about in the interview.

i thought you captured the feeling in that room perfectly. there must've been 30 people in that room and they were very nervous, and it showed in the way he responded to the question. >> even looking at how the media thought that amber was going to go and how they were predicting that it would be very easy interview for him, it actually was not an easy interview for him, and he ended up learning a lot about how he would need to be in his eventual -- the eventual testimony. >> martha: he had not answered any of these allegations. and he answered of them. >> he was encouraged by his friends to be really calm and not too aggressive and has don mcgahn would remind him, you are a trump nominee, you need to act like it. >> martha: you need to fight, as you say and about. >> get to see that evolution. >> martha: sort of robotic at times he was in the interview i did with him and his wife ashley, it was the opposite. it was like the cork got popped out of him when he walked into that hearing room. he was completely -- he was yelling, perhaps may be overboard.

>> i think one thing we found in the reporting we did is everyone pretty much agreed that the moment he was talking to senator amy glover chart, he definitely went too far, but i think also a lot of people realized that he had to bring his emotions, and that was something interesting, that we saw throughout the process he had had that. they had been practicing answering questions and the frustration and the indignation had been there and it was kind of a battle between how do i display this and talk about it, the moments where he is deciding as he's getting ready to go out and thinking how do i present this, and i think everyone saw that was a turning point and he was -- he stayed strong and of course president trump stayed strong and supported him as well, so it was really heated. >> martha: in that moment he's got all the people telling him you should be like this, you should be like that, and he's in the worst moment of his life i'm accused of most heinous possible allegations to which he said that he did not do. i thought it was very

interesting to hear about ashley and the role that she played and when he came back to the holding room after that moment with amy klobuchar, she said you got to fix this. >> right, she tells him to ease up a bit, so he goes right back out and he does that. but getting that kind of inside access was great. justice on trial was not just about the cap and a confirmation but really about what the entire country went through and how important it is to make sure we all care about due process and rule of law and the resumption of innocence. >> martha: does it have an impact, what america went through in this and what you write about in your book on the next round? >> we certainly hope so. that's one of the reasons we wrote "justice on trial" because it's getting so ugly, what happening with his confirmation hearings and one of the things we saw is the only way to get a better is to understand what has happen. so we can learn something from each of these attacks whether it's on robert bork or justice thomas. i think we had learned from those it would've been harder to understand how to deal with the

kavanaugh. we need to learn from us if we are to not have -- >> martha: him onward, as anyone about to retire on the supreme court? >> not that we know of. >> martha: congratulations on the book, it's really good. "justice on trial." still more of "the story" coming up next. nice. but, uh... what's up with your... partner? not again. limu that's your reflection. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ play it cool and escape heartburn fast with new tums chewy bites cooling sensation. ♪ tum tum tum tums with new tums chewy bites cooling sensation. [music playing] across the country, we walk. carrying flowers that signify why we want to end alzheimer's disease.

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untold story available now at foxnewspodcast.com. we issue have a great night, everybody. tucker is up next. ♪ spewing good evening, and welcome to atucker carlson tonight."eliteca mericanruling admissions are supposed to be based on merit. but if that's true, if only the best people get in, then why are the children of so many democratic politicians at yale? we've got the numbers but will bring you that investigation and just a minute. first tonight, after 200 years, the democrats were a political party with conventional political goals. democratic party is now a