greg: we are out of time. thanks to charlie hurt. kat timpf and tyrus. chris: i'm chris wallace. with just 16 days left in the presidential campaign, we look ahead to the final debate between joe biden and donald trump. and the final vote in the senate to confirm a supreme court justice. the candidates prepare to meet and make their closing arguments to voters. president trump: this election is a choice between a trump recovery and a biefden -- and a biden depression. chris: to tell us what they stand on defeating the virus and bring this country together.

we'll talk with former mayor pete buttigieg, and jason millerin, senior advisor for the trump campaign. the judiciary committee set to vote this week on amy coney barrett's nomination and send it to the senate vote. and our power player of the week, actor alan alda's passion for helping us communicate with each other. >> the secret to good communication is listening. chris: all right now on "fox news sunday." hello again from fox news in

washington. 16 days and counting, we are in the home stretch of this campaign. president trump is trying to shore up support in states he carried in 2016, i'll former vice president joe biden is calling on democrats' best weapon, barack obama. and it's four days until the last presidential debate. jacqui heinrich is tracking joe biden's campaign. but let's start with david spunt in nevada where the president holds a rally later today. >> four years ago he lost this state and right now he's behind in the polls here. president trump full steam ahead on the campaign trail. november 3 now within reach. president trump: the democrats

would terminate our recovery with a lockdown like your governor is do now for everybody except her husband. reporter: the president calling out gretchen whitmer. supporters chanting lock her up caught the governor's attention who tweeted, this is the rhetoric that put me, my family and other government officials' lives in danger as we try to save the lives of our fellow americans. the president trying to capitalize on a "new york post" story linking emails to hunter biden. the rnc filed a complaint with the federal elections commission claiming that the tweet blocking

was an in-kind donation to bind's campaign. after the rally in nevada, he will head to the street coast, then two morale liz in nevada later this week. chris: let's bring in jacqui heinrich who is covering the biden campaign. reporter: joe biden will encourage supporters to vote early. but it appears he's keeping a light schedule and tapping surrogates with star power. >> we need joe biden. >> magic johnson in michigan. today andrew yang takes on wisconsin. following a campaign memo warning supporters the reality

is this race is far closer than some of the punditry we are seeing would suggest. joe biden is trying to keep the focus on his campaign, but questions linger about the authenticity of the emails and veracity of their claims. >> i knew you would ask it. it's another smear campaign. it's right up your alley. a republican-led senate inquiry he says is prove that's he didn't enrich his family. chris: jacqui, thank you. joining us now, former mayor pete buttigieg, a member of the

bind transition team. >> this is an example of why years in washington is not always the same thing as judgment. he supported the worst foreign policy decision made by the united states in my lifetime, which was the decision to invade iraq. chris: mayor, i understand you were running against bind then and the choice between you and bind is different than the choice between trump and biden. did you mean what you said then that former vice president biden backed the worst foreign policy decision of your lifetime? >> i think invading iraq was a mistake and i believe biden said the same. we won't take advice from this

president who is a destabilizing force literally everywhere he goes. right now it's 2020. the choice is between joe biden and donald trump who has been a disaster in every foreign policy issue at stake. we can't go on with four more years of this chaos and cruelty. a remarkable coalition of democrats like me, and an amazing number of republicans are coming together to say we back joe biden. it's time to end the trump presidency and move on. chris: i want to take you back one last time to the primaries. you went after joe biden's 47 years in washington. there you are. >> we need a perspective that will allow us to leave the politics of the past in the past. turn the page and bring change to washington before it's too

late. >> you talk about the politics of the past. you sound like president trump there. >> we definitely need to turn the page even more now than when i was running for president a year ago. what we need to turn the page from is a president who is incapable of handling a public health crisis that has cost a quarter million american lives and thrown our economy into a total wreckage and clearly has no plan to do anything about it. we have a clear choice between two very different futures in this country. remember when everybody was hand ringing and saying how can the democrats possibly unify? look how unified we are. we can all see what's at stake. i can't think of an election in

modern history where the choice has been this stark. i know what side i'm on. chris: let's turn to the nomination of amy coney barrett to the supreme court. here is what joe biden said about that recently. >> the republicans packing the court now. it's not constitutional what they are doing. chris: i certainly understand why democrats are upset with the president rushing through this nomination. but it isn't court packing and it certainly is not unconstitutional. >> i think what he's saying is it's not in the spirit of the constitution or our legal or political system for them to do this. what most americans believe as i do and joe biden does, the american people ought to have a say. we are not talking about an election coming up. we are in the middle of an

election. millions of americans have voted and want their voice to be heard. this senate can't bring itself under mitch mcconnell to vote on a relief package. there has been a bill brought to them months ago coming out of the house. they won't touch it. but they have time to rush through a nomination the american people don't want. whatever specific words you use for it, the bottom line, the word i would use is wrong. most americans agree with us on this. it's one more reason joe biden is winning this election. and if everybody votes, by which we are leaving nothing to chance. we have to work hard to make sure we turn out everybody. most americans disagree with this president on the nomination. most americans believe the president is doing a terrible job on the pandemic. most americans support the

affordable care act which they can take away from us in a matter of week, which is why the supreme court fight is so important. our job is to get out that vote. chris: let's talk about the supreme court fight. joe biden refused to say whether if he's elected president he would actually pack the court, not rush through a vacancy which exists, which is purely constitutional. but pack the court by increasing the number of justices from 9. here is what joe biden said this week. >> don't voters have a right -- >> they have a right to know where i stand before they vote. >> so you will come out with a clear position before election day? >> yes, depending on how they handle this. chris: here is what i don't understand about that answer. as you pointed out, millions of americans are already voting. 22 million plus have already

voted. if joe biden wants them to know what he's going to do on the court, shouldn't he have told them weeks ago? and you more than anybody else i can remember in the primaries, you used to talk about increasing the size of the court. i remember us discussing 15 justices. is that what you hope a president biden would do. >> my views haven't changed. i think bipartisan reform with the aim of increasing the size of the court. we don't want to allow this president to change the subject, which is what they are always doing. there are all kinds of ending questions about the future of the american judiciary. but the precondition coverage of millions of americans might depend on what's going to happen in the senate with regard to

this justice. my marriage might depend on this justice. the president and his supporters have a remarkable gift for changing the subject. we are not going to let them. we know the american people are with us on this issue. we can't let them just paper over or throw up smoke around the fact. chris: changing the subject -- isn't it -- mayor, if you are talking about the supreme court, isn't the question of packing the court which a lot of democrats including you talked about doing, and vice president biden refusing to answer that, that's not changing the subject. don't voters have a right to know before they vote, and it's too late for millions of them, where joe biden stands on that issue? >> he has spoken about this many times. he's not a fan of what's called

packing. and we have to talk about what kind of reforms we are interested in. a long complex discussion that is not on the minds of people who want to use it as a distraction. they want to talk about anything but healthcare which the president is trying to take away and the court might take away, and the pandemic costing so many lives and livelihoods in this country. chris: you have pointed out the biden transition team in september. how advanced is planning for a biden administration. and would you like an official role? it? >> there is a phenomenal team working to make sure there will be a successful transfer in the event the vice president is elected president. but let's be clear. that's just an academic exercise unless we succeed in this campaign. most of my energy is going into

making sure there is -- there s a biden-harris administration. chris: do you want to be secretary buttigieg? >> i will go wherever i'm useful. for the next 16 days i can be useful here in michigan and other swing states doing everything in my power. america can't go on this way. and settling for the worst pandemic response in the world can't continue. chris: thank you for your time. we'll turn to trump campaign senior advisor jason miller.

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i'm coming back. ask your doctor, check your blood pressure.

chris: with millions of ballots already cast, donald trump and joe biden square off this week in a final presidential debate. joining us now trump campaign senior advisor, jason miller. i want to start with the president's comments last night in michigan about that state's governor, gretchen whitmer. president trump: you have got to get your governor to open up your state, okay? lock them all up. chris: whitmer who was the target of an alleged plot to

kidnap tweeted, this is exactly the rhetoric that put me, my family and other government officials' lives in danger. does the president have any regrets about what he said and joining the crowd chanting lock her up? >> no, not at all. many residents in michigan are frustrated with the governor. they want to see their state opened back up. the anarchists were threatening governor whitner, that was terrible, and i'm glad president trump's doj were able to get the psychopaths and put them away. chris, folks can sit back and work out of their basement. but the hourly wage earners can't do that. they have to get back to work to

support their families. chris: let's talk about covid-19. 8 million people in this country now have the coronavirus. there have been 22,000 deaths. d220,000 deaths. why does the president continue to hold these rallies where thousands of people are packed together, the vast majority without masks, and the president says this. president trump: i will walk in there and kiss everyone in the audience. i will kiss the guys and the beautiful women. give you a big fat kiss. chris: why doesn't the president follow his administration's own guidelines at his rallies? >> as you know, we do pass out masks at the rallies. i encourage everyone to put the mask on.

and we test folks' temperatures. and we remind them to wash their hands and we give them a hand sanitizer. people don't want to be living in fear in their basement. we are going to be strong, safe, but we are not going to be scared. i don't see the protests from the media when we see blm protests or marches on washington. let's do it safely and have some fun. i wish you would have shown the clip of the president dancing to "ymca." chris: i get to ask the questions here and put on the clips. let me ask you about this issue of masks. you say you hand out the masks. the president sends a very mixed message about the idea of wearing masks. i want to show you what he said, then show you what his own

administration's top expert dr. fauci said. president trump: you have a story where they want and a story where they don't want. >> we need to put that nonsense behind us, well they keep changing their minds. masks work. physical distancing works. avoiding crowds works. chris: does the president think there are two sides to this argument? there are two sides whether or not it's safer to wear masks. >> the president has encouraged people to wear masks. you have seen that when he has gone through walter reed hospital when he's not able to socially distance. masks on their own though important are not the cure-all. the people around president trump will have their masks on and be tested and somehow he

still got covid. masks are important. the president urged people to wear them. if you are attending a trump rally, i urge you to wear your mask, be safe, wash your hands. we check temperatures before they come in. we are not going to be scared and live in fear. we are going to defeat this virus. if you want to defeat covid, vote for president trump. if you want to live in your basement the rest of your life, joe biden is a good option for you. chris: the final debate they will hold this thursday, october 22. one of the president's own debate advisors, chris christie said he thought the president came in too hot. here is one of many examples of that. >> that is simply -- your party

wants to go socialist. >> i am the democratic party. president trump: they dominate you, joe, you know that. chris: president trump by count interrupted 149 times in that debate. does he plan to be as disruptive in the debate this week as he was then or will he change his strategy? >> i still think that's about half as many times as the president was interrupted in his town hall thursday night. i think he won the first debate. i think -- i'm glad you bring up the debate. as we saw mayor pete brought up the issue of foreign policy. you had to help him with some of his clips from the primary talking about joe biden's disastrous foreign on is and endless wars. we were supposed to have a

debate on foreign policy this thursday. fox news confirmed the authenticity of the emails from the hunter biden chinese cash scandal which the "new york post" is covering extensively. i wish we were spending more time on foreign policy. but when you talk about style and approach. i think president trump will give joe biden more room to explain himself on some of these issues. whether are you the chairman? are you the big guy that we see articulated in these emails. are you going to pack the court? i think he will get it on thursday. chris: ben sasse held a telephone town hall with some of his constituents this week and

here is what he had to say about president trump. >> the way he kisses dictators' butts, and spends like a drunken sailor, and mocks evangelicals behind closed doors, his family treated this as a business opportunity and is friends with white supremacists. the president tweets, little ben sasse of nebraska, an embarrass to the state of nebraska. >> i didn't know jeff flake had a twin brother living in nebraska. but it seems ben sasse wants to go down that road. this isn't about ben sasse. we have seen between 13 and 22%

of people attending who didn't vote in 2016. i'm much more concerned about what they have to say and not ben sasse. chris: the president has been hitting the bidens hard for the alleged revelations in the hunter biden emails. here is an example. president trump: hunter made no money until his father became vice president. now he's like a vacuum cleaner. it's an organized crime family as far as i'm concerned. two senate-led republican committees investigated what went on in ukraine. what they said with hunter at burisma and while there was a perception of a conflict of interest, they found no actual wrongdoing. as for the other business deals and you talk about the big guy

and money. vice president biden has released his tax returns, unlike president trump, and there is no indication he got money from anybody in these business deals. do you have any hard evidence that joe biden lied to the irs? because that would be a heck of a story. >> we know joe biden lied to the american public when he said he never discussed his son's business dealings. there is independent confirmation that one of these meetings did happen. here is the key take away. joe biden has not come out and denied these allegations. in addition there is a broader thing if you think back to 2016 and the way the voters rejected the clinton, inc. we are seeing the same thing with joe biden's brothers.

maybe he hasn't registered for all these things. but voters hate it when people make a bunch of money trading off their family name. i think we'll letter mor -- we'l learn more at the debate. chris: up next we'll bring in our sunday group to discuss the week ahead.

president trump: suburban women, would you please like me? i saved your damn neighborhood, okay?

chris: president trump making a plea to a key block of voters where he's trailing according to a number of polls. joining us, karl rove, catherine lucey, and bob woodward, author of the best sellingbook "rage." in 2016 donald trump won the suburbs by 4 points. but according to polls he's trailing by 23 points. >> you are hearing the president on the campaign trail saying the quiet part out loud. the pandemic robbed him of his strongest argument with women, which was the economy. what you would hear from women before the pandemic, they don't

like the tweets, they don't like the styles, but they like the 401ks and their jobs. and that's not the case any more. his message to women is centered around public safety, and housing and it has not moved voters. women are the hardest hit by the pandemic, particularly women with children who struggle with childcare and school access. it's not clear if he can make up much ground. chris: the trump campaign has pulled down campaign advertising in the upper midwest, michigan, wisconsin, iowa, minnesota, and instead is spending more money in the sunbelt, including georgia, which is a state you would think would be safely in his column by now. what does that tell all of us

about the cash crunch in the campaign and whether he has a narrowing path to 270 electoral votes. >> it tells us more about what the biden campaign has been able to do because of their spending advantage. the biggest spends for both campaigns have been in the upper mid western states. >> if he loses mitch again's at 290. if he loses wisconsin he's 260 and no longer president of the united states. the spending pattern, the "new york times" had a story about it today. biden is playing defense in only two states, minnesota and new hampshire, both of which hillary clinton won. trump is playing defense in minnesota and nevada, both in states hillary clinton won.

spending advantage gives biden the ability to play in a lot of red territory and puts trump in a bad place of having to defend. one name i didn't mention is ohio. i think that's a recognition ohio will be red this year. biden is spending more money in nebraska than he is in texas. chris: texas does seem to be slipping away. bob, you spent hours talking to the president about your book. president trump: i lost to the worst candidate in the history of politics. i'm not going to feel so good. maybeville to leave the country. i don't know. as unusual you know for a politician to even recognize or touch on that subject.

how much -- i know you didn't -- maybe you did talk about that directly. how much do you think that weighs on the president that this man who spent his whole career talking about winning, to go out as a loser. >> we have to address what's in real people's lives. that's the virus. for 10 months the virus has been mismanaged by president trump. the ends of january, the extraordinary moment in history, his national security advisor robert o'brien said, mr. president, this virus which is coming which was not really yet here, is going to be the most serious national security threat to your presidency. the president three days ago, three days ago in that town hall, nbc town hall, twice

denied that that had happened. because the president realizes that the virus, 8 million people, cases, it has affected people directly or indirectly. tens of millions of people. he has failed in a comprehensive way. his basic duty to protect the people. chris: karl, i want to ask you about the debate which is probably the last big event in the final two weeks of the campaign. i thought jason miller made a little bit of news today. he indicated the president is not going to go in and hector joe biden like he did last time. he will let him talk in the hopes biden will incriminate,

disqualify himself. do you expect a different strategy by the president in this debate? >> yes, i have talked to members of team trump. they think it would be in his best interests to back off and give joe biden time to explain why he won't say whether he will pack the supreme court. do the candidates use each individual day something to show a contrast point, and in the case of biden more evidence to make it a referenda on donald trump? i think each individual day and how they play out will be almost as important as the debate itself. it will dominate the coverage friday and saturday, but in the 13 days how they handle those will have a big impact. we have not had a normal

campaign with months and months of these two people on the campaign trail. chris: we have to take a break here. but when we come whack, the debate d when we come back, the nomination of amy coney barrett is a big issue.

>> justice ruth bader ginsburg. president trump is attempting to roll back women's rights for decades to come. >> i have not made deals or anything like that. i'm not here on a mission to destroy the affordable care act.

chris: vice presidential nominee kamala harris making the case against the president's supreme court nominee. bob, how did you sense judge barrett did in her three days testifying before 9 senate judiciary committee. and how did the senate democrats do in scoring points even if they are unable to block her nomination to the court. >> she did well by substantively not answering questions, showing how smart she is. 40 years ago i did a book on the supreme court called "the brethren." the center of the court is in control, not the left or the right. what we are moving toward should she be confirmed, we are going to have a supreme court where

the right is in control in a very big way. and we are going to be dealing with the reality for the next 20, 30 years that that will be the case. and i report in my book that somebody like senator lindsey graham who is chairman of the senate judiciary committee dealing with this nomination earlier was always worrying about a politicization of the court. that we get a supreme court that is either so left or so right we lose that sense of the center. and now of course he is leaving the -- leading the effort to make sure we lose the sense of the center. so that is going to be the future. chris: as they say, elections

have consequences. i suspect a lot of people would say for many years the court was not in the center, it was to the left. certainly the sear -- the earl n court. if the president hadn't pushed a vacancy even with a few weeks left and the senate republicans hadn't pushed for the confirmation before the election, it would have turned off the base. maybe they had no political choice in the matter. do you think the senate democrats did make them pay perhaps at the ballot box by focusing so much on obamacare and preexisting conditions which was the democrats' best issue in the 2018 mid terms? >> i think the democrats have done a good job forecasting how justice barrett would act on

this. they don't want somebody who will impartially apply the law. they want somebody who will give them the outcomes they want. i agree with bob, she did a fantastic job. we have a significant gap between those who want her approved and those who don't want her approved. one out of every five democrats now wants to have her confirmed as a justice. i always thought both sides would energize their base. she handled herself very well and i think that will serve to the advantage of her and incidentally, the republicans. chris: then there is the question of what joe biden would do as president if elected to the supreme court. a continuing question. here was the vice president this week. >> i am not a fan of court packing because i think it generates what will happen, whoever wins, it keeps moving in

a way that's inconsistent with what is going to be manageable. >> you are still not a fan? >> i am not a fan. chris: catherine, to pack the court, joe biden and senate democrats, assuming he's elected president and they take over. they would have to kill the filibuster, then they would have to pass a law that would increase the number of justices which is legal. it's not a constitutional matter, over the current 9. given the fact that he spent 47 years in washington, and is an institutionalist about washington. do you see joe biden as president taking a wrecking ball not to one, but to two branches of the government? >> it's an interesting question. biden has not provide an entirely clear answer on this. though he has consistent lip said he's not a fan of packing

the court. another thing he said in that abc interview is he expected to give a more complete answer after the senate votes on the judge barrett nomination which could come as early as this week. he did seem to indicate he would provide more information before election day. chris: millions of people have already voted. and he didn't make it clear whether it was a question of whether or not they approved her or whether it was how they handled it and had a real debate on the senate floor. bob, you know joe biden from your years and his years in washington. do you think he can continue to punts and finesse and not answer this yes question? do you any he would seek to end the filibuster and increase the number of justices on the court? >> it's obviously on the table. if i can go back 17 years.

karl rove, i hope i'm not betraying a confidence. i remember going to see you in the white house after the iraq war and we were talking about that. and you made the general important point that in politics all that matters is outcome. and outcome is the essence of politics. and i still think it reality in people's lives is this virus. everyone knows somebody who got it. chris: bob, forgive me, but i'm asking about the court. >> okay. but the court is -- the point is, we have to focus on what is the centerpiece here, and that's what i'm saying. the court is going to go the way it is going to go. i don't think it's going to change lots of votes.

karl pointed to a poll here -- chris: let me bring in -- we are running out of time. karl, your thought about whether joe biden can continue to finesse this issue and two, do you see it as an effective issue? say he continues in the debate thursday as jason miller thinks he will, to punt on it. is that a good issue? will it matter to voters? >> the issue doesn't matter. but the unwillingness to answer does. you don't trust us, you don't respect us. i don't think he will be inclined to get rid of the fill filibuster or 60-vote rule. we want to pass statehood with

51 votes? chris: i will have to end it there. during the commercial you and bob can go back to your conversation from 17 years ago. up next, our power player of the week. alan alda played a wise guy in "mash." now he's sharing some wisdom.

chris: he brought laughter to generations as hawkeye pierce on the tv classic "mash." here is our power player of the week. >> what we need now, more effective communication. not only about covid. but we need to communicate with each other about the things we

value. chris: alan alda has been communicating for 84 years. as hawkeye pierce in the legendary tv show "mash" he gave voice to a generation questioning authority. >> i'm not through here. chris: now he's teaching scientists how to share their discoveries with the rest of us. >> to a certain extent our lives depend on if we understand the science being delivered to us and if we trust those communicating with us. chris: he found his improv skills as an actor translate to this different stage. >> you are not just reciting a lecture. you are actually talking to them. you are speaking to them in the way you would to a friend. i hope you get a chance to

listen to my new podcast. chris: this passion for communicating led him to start a podcast now in its 9th season. >> it's all conversation. chris: what is the secret to communicating? >> ironically i think the secret to good communication is listening. chris:al today talks openly about how he's now dealing with parkinson's disease. i understand your staff has a nickname for you. >> they call me the oldest millennial. chris: 106 million people watched the finale. still a record for a scripted show. >> people who weren't born yet

when we went on the air are writing to me. chris: the bonds among the cast remain strong. >> i posted a video showing me interacting with mike farrow. how to download the podcast. he slowly gets it. >> i'm so excited. chris: last yeara alda posted a video tap dancing with his granddaughter. how do you feel about your life these days and what's your attitude going forward? >> i plan to keep figuring out what's worth doing and having fun right until the last. you will never be able to quote my last words, because i hope it will be a laugh. chris: this week alda launched a

spinoff of his popular podcast, it's called "science, clear and vivid." we'll see you next "fox news sunday." six sunday. we will discuss this when "the next revolution" will be televised. hello america i marked live-in. welcome to life, liberty and levin. we have a very important guest, rudy giuliani. he is not just a next mayor of new york, he's the former united states attorney for the southern district of new york and the former associate general of the united states and number three at the department of justice