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tv   Outnumbered  FOX News  May 31, 2021 9:00am-10:00am PDT

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>> this is a fox news alert. to some liberal media admitting journalists were wrong, a possibility of the coronavirus leaked from a lab in wuhan, china, after more than a euro censoring or downplaying the theory is a virus ravaged the world. this is "outnumbered" as we mark this memorial day. i am kennedy, good to be with you and we have fox news correspondent molly line, host of no eruption. tomi lahren is here. leslie marshall and in the virtual center seat, we love him, joey jones, fox news
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contributor and host of usa inc. streaming now on fox nation. welcome, everyone prelates got right to it. it. gaining traction as more scientists and politicians question the origins of covid-19 and report suggests three wuhan researchers went to the hospital shortly before the outbreak was confirmed. meanwhile, journal is now admitting their skepticism was in part due to the fact that former president trump and other republicans were pushing the lab leak theory. watch this. >> we need to know how it started and i think a lot of people have egg on their face. this was an idea first put forward by mike pompeo, donald trump, and some things may be true even if donald trump said them. a bunch of people started arguing that it likely escape from the slab in wuhan and some of them were scientists whom you've never heard of necessarily and who made serious arguments but somewhere
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senator tom cotton and i think people made this mistake, a lot of people in the political left and in the media made this mistake and set of tom cotton is saying something, it can't be true or they assume that and that's not right. it seems like a lot of people in the media leap to dismiss the lab leak theory because of where was coming from and the reality is we don't yet know how covid started. >> kennedy: so how serious is this if you have a group of people who have a great deal of influence dismissing something out of hand because they simply don't want it to be true, what are the implications there? >> joey: there's two big implications for the media now suffers from what we would call a little bit of laziness and a lot of confirmation bias and that's something we have seen a lot but beyond that, what does it matter if we know how this happens because we need to be
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able to prevent it or hold some accountability so it is less likely to happen again but when you take this a step further and realize they applied the exact same thinking to the vaccine. we have our current president and vice president undermine the vaccine and say things like i'll only take it if i can get the doctor to order the sizes that i believe and prefer to verify it. president trump and every term of his presidency is not new but to do it during the pandemic and in this way is pretty disgusting. >> kennedy: so is this justification for the former president and what does this do for his legacy and reputation? this is something that president trump was very, very vocal about and obviously secretary pompeo and senator cotton. so how much does this bolster his legacy and what does the apology mean? >> tomi: i'm glad that we heard an apology, certainly
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didn't expect that but what i really would hope to see besides the validation of our president and great senator and mike pompeo as well as i would like to see the media correct itself. they are saying they have egg on their face and should have pursued this more, their trump derangement syndrome got in the way, i would hope this is the reflection moment because as joey said, this is in the first time that they've done this. it's certainly been talking about this for four or five years now that the media only reports on what it wants to report about and anything that can cast donald trump and conservatives in a bad light but looking at something so big is coronavirus in a global pandemic, will they take a moment and reflect and correct themselves or will they just say are bad and move on? that's what i want to know. what will change? how will journalism change itself so this doesn't happen again so we have another republican or conservative in office, we don't have the media going after them on a daily basis trying to sabotage them and not actually do their job.
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will this change anything? i'm not going to hold my breath. >> kennedy: i've always respected him as a journalist, known him for a long time, met him for the first time in 1996 when we were covering the national convention but he really betrays his bias the way he talks about the former president and to my original point, that so dangerous but i look at something like that and it makes people wonder how many people are there in the media who are so hell-bent on their own political agenda that they are willing to sacrifice the truth when millions of lives have been lost. >> leslie: is a former journalist, journalism 101 as you report the facts and don't become the story and you shouldn't let your own personal biases come into play. sadly what we see now in the world that we live in his the lines between the truth and reporting facts and opinion and bias have all been blurred and i certainly hope on this memorial
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day, i will agree with you not just because it's memorial day but going forward, we want to know when we watch television, when we hear something on the radio, read something in a paper online that we are getting the truth. investigative journalists should have investigated this. i will give them a pass, not going to believe politicians but the majority of the international community and scientists are saying not a lab. covid's daddy and granddaddy was what we think this is but still almost a year and a half later, kind of at the same place which came from one of these two places him because china certainly doesn't let us get into that, we don't have that definitively but journalists continue to have a responsibility to investigate that and am glad to see that people were honest with what happened but quite frankly whether you like a president or don't like a president, that should not have anything to do with your job as a journalist. your job is to report the facts. >> kennedy: and you shouldn't
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be tarred as a conspiracy theorist when you are making a logical case for something that has very dire implications and it left a huge void in reporting at "the wall street journal" were doing the investigative work and they fill that void with some facts that are tough to digest because now there's paralysis. the investigation has passed. so we have to make sure it doesn't happen again. how do we do that? >> molly: they all nailed some of the big points and where the media failed in their own biases and it's become this almost competitive sport, the eating of crow. it was just an exercise but now taken to the olympic level and it seems like the lack of apology and then an accepted part of where we are, just going to reevaluate and move on but i think one of the most important parts of this is that window that was missed that the media had a year and a half where for
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some inexplicable reason certainly just because a republican asked a question or push the theory out there doesn't mean it should be question or answers shouldn't be sought so he missed an opportunity, a year and a half of exploration. not that the chinese government, beijing would be cooperative and they have a big incentive to try to ensure that they are not blamed for millions of millions of deaths and economic crashes all around the world, but could have done more digging and instead, there was this halt that came in and that's one of the biggest challenges is it doesn't seem like lessons were learned. from the steele dossier to this, seems to be a pattern that keeps being repeated and i don't know where the enlightenment will come from to change that. we will see as things come forward in the next couple of years. >> kennedy: that's a great point about the dossier and
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quickly, we are running out of time, but what else are they lying to us about? >> joey: leslie said investigative journalists should have -- they didn't passively ignore, they actively attacked what we now know to be the truth. the truth being that this was a possibility if not probability. they attacked you if you even said that. they conflated the true conspiracy theory of this was done on purpose as a weapon with the truth which is this could have been leaked from a lab, that's what's dangerous and they will not assume responsibility for because that's what they will use later on when someone like trump was in office. >> kennedy: they know they are wrong and there is much more to come that we are not being told about. it's not just illegal immigrants crossing the border. fox news witnessing an alarming spike in mexican drug cartel activity across the rio grande. got the exclusive report coming up next.
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>> up with a blistering editorial on the policy reads "agent say they now spend their time on paperwork, working out, or doing nothing at all. washington knows they fear being disciplined more for making an arrest then not making one. border patrol agents meanwhile have little time to stop people from crossing as they are on babysitting duty for unaccompanied minors who have entered illegally. it plainly amounts to open borders policy the hard left wants and less bite and changes course, expect a lot of suffering, lawlessness, and a different kind of america before
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long. chad wolfe served as acting homeland secretary under president trump and set the current administration is going about the crisis the wrong way. >> the administration are trying to take a victory lap at the moment talking about how their moving migrants, mainly minors from one government facility to another government facility and saying we've solved the crisis and they have done anything about that. it solving the crisis is actually trying to stop the illegal behavior. >> welcoming back our panel now and i want to go to joey jones who knows not only about defense but texas as well. to get your thoughts on what we've talked about, the editorial board, your thoughts. >> joey: i've lived in texas for three years and i've been at the border and i've seen this but even before that, i grew up in a town called dalton, georgia, known for making all the carpet in the world so there's a lot of illegal immigrants they are that work the carpet mills but the people
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i went to school with, the recipients are the dreamers in the first generation americans that are kids of people that came illegally don't champion open borders because they know the quiet part of the people don't say out loud which is if you come here illegally, it is a tough and disenfranchised life to live in the shadows and have no way to become part of the society and have to live on its fringe. two or three families in a single-family home in each family works more shifts and they can bring the families here and they spent all the money they make back to rex coker that's the life of an illegal immigrant great is not a better life, it's in the more prosperous place, but not a better life. a lot of these families are split. half the families back in mexico crossing the border back and forth illegally hoping not to get caught just to see their kids is not a life or being part of this country, people who were
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kids of illegal immigrants don't support this type of open border trade for potential votes one day and i think it's going to backfire for them, i really do. >> molly: notwithstanding this incredibly dangerous journey being dropped and the farmers fields over walls just to get onto the other side. i want to bring you win because like many of our reporters here, have done extensive travels down at the border and seen things first hands so your thoughts on this sentiment that this is an open border policy, what have you seen? >> tomi: i've been to the border several times during the trump administration and also during the biden administration and i'll tell you of the border patrol agents that will speak to you tell you they are basically the welcoming committee and glorified babysitters and exactly what we read in that post, that is exactly what's going on but also tell you when speaking to those that are down there in these border towns in arizona, we are talking a lot
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now about the influx of coming into texas but there are a lot of other areas of the border being overwhelmed they be not the numbers you are seeing coming through texas, the unaccompanied minors but that's by the drug cartels and criminal organizations shift a lot of their focus to things like arizona because they know that in texas people are overwhelmed with unaccompanied minors so that's when -- those that have never been arrested or apprehended slipping through with drugs, are border patrol agents are not only handcuffed and hand tied by the administration but all their resources and energy are taken up by these unaccompanied minors and that's when the worst of the worst come into our country but the democrats know this is happening. whether they want to recognize this as a crisis or not, whether come along wants to see it firsthand or not, it is a crisis and they know that. but why are they okay with it? what is their goal? why did they want so many illegal immigrants in this country? you have to ask that question.
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i have a theory they want to give illegal immigrants voting rights in amnesty and i believe that's what's going to happen in the next year or two have not sooner than that so i believe they are packing in as many people as possible and give them voting rights in and secure their democratic stranglehold on this country for generations to come. that's the question we need to be asking is why? why are they doing this? >> molly: i want to bring you win because part of that is something a lot of conservatives believe that there's a lot of strategy going here but also on the part potentially of the cartels that as these unaccompanied minors stream across the border, it opens up a window of opportunity to smuggling or drugs because the border patrols are distracted. so your thoughts on this accusation that the biden administration's current policy amounts to open border policy and all of the ramifications of that? >> leslie: a lot to cover their but i will be brief, i know we don't have much time. title 42 which was created
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during the trump administration is still intact. we don't have open borders and if you talk to some of the border patrol agents we have talked to, they will tell you 73% of the individuals arrested and apprehended at the border are turned around and that counts for 90% of the single adults. the difference between the administration's families being reunited and more families and children being allowed and trying to transfer people who apply for asylum being held in mexico to get them through the court system quickly for an outcome. to have everybody vote democratic, the biden administration going to be in a bad job because there's no way that's going to happen in the next year or two because is not with the pathway to citizenship is for somebody who is even in this country already and has been for decades illegal and i want to speak to the drug cartels because this week on my radio show, we spoke to the dea and this is what they told me. two years ago, the relationship
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between the united states and mexico started to break down with regard to the drug cartel and that's when we saw a huge increase in fentanyl coming across the border which continues, the real bad time, october of the united states of america actually arrested the former defense minister of mexico at the time attorney general bill barr was like my bad, backpedaled and released him and because of that, they are still angry and we are having a really hard time having mexico work with us and one more last thing in mexico, drug cartels are different as a military or police in mexico, as the other way around and that needs to change within that nation as well. >> molly: thank you. coming up, cancel culture strikes again as america pauses to remember the ultimate sacrifice made by heroes in our military. an elite university doesn't want to recognize memorial day at
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all. >> i don't think memorial day should be a thing that we celebrate personally. we met why not? >> it's a celebration of u.s. imperialism and colonialism.
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and even more incredible. ideas start the future, just like that. >> i can still see these faces of people i knew that gave everything for their country. >> you look back in so many of my men are gone. it never goes away, 77 years ago when i got captured. >> just one of these memorials, real people and they die in the service of the country by combat or by injury. and they have families.
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and those of us who are survivors appreciate them. >> kennedy: beautiful pair to some of our nation's veterans reflecting as we honor the sacrifices of the men and women in uniform who paid the ultimate price for our freedom. some college students at georgetown university and others in the d.c. area are so offended by memorial day they signed a big petition calling for it to be canceled and the shocking video from the conservative new site campus reform. watch. >> i don't think memorial day should be a thing that we celebrate personally. >> why not? >> is a celebration of u.s. imperialism and colonialism personally. not an attack on any individual, but a system. for >> absolutely not.
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it represents a lot of negative aspects of america and highlights something that people shouldn't necessarily be proud of. we are going to honor and celebrate the dead, i think it should be those that lost their lives to in america. >> there's actually a problem with memorial day that it is memorializing american imperialism and glorifying it. would you guys agree with that? >> probably, yeah. >> i have this petition here along the same lines trying to get support to unrecognized memorial day is a federal holiday because like you were saying come american imperialism and the barbarism, would you be willing to sign this? >> absolutely. >> kennedy: joey, the propaganda that the students are being fed is just a buffet at colleges and universities, my goodness. >> joey: i'd love for you to explain who pays for that dude's
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college. i love to send him out and work on a car and get his hands dirty, teach them a bit about life. there is movie where a snowman sings and dances a song about summer, can't wait for summer because he's stupid, ignorant of the world around him and want summer to come because he doesn't know summer will melt his face off but thankfully, there's a princess with powers and keeping him alive and that the united states marine corps in the military and that's what they do. we make sure that kids have the chance to be that stupid and ignorant by going out and facing our enemies so they don't have to. obviously, segment like that makes me mad because i'm not going to call the guys names anymore but the truth is americans don't understand memorial day. there are two groups of people who understand memorial day and as the families of those who died in the very small amount of veterans that have been in combat and seen it happen. a lot of veterans don't fully feel it and that's okay. i don't want you to. i don't want there to be so many
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people dead in combat that you have to but at least respect that for me. a day like today, don't thank me, tell me you remember and put a name and a face with it. i went to georgetown, i'm not an idiot. it is a cultural problem, not just academia and those types of people are going to have a hard reality when they get into the real world or at least i hope so. they need some hardship and struggle in life to appreciate what's given to them in the form of life and death, this really is infuriating to see that. >> kennedy: this gary is at one point, they will be running the real world. >> joey: no, they're not. >> kennedy: they are going to be so many of them, in some ways generational. i know, and then i will do this. leslie, joey brings up a really good point. why should we be paying for college which is not within the purview of government, they not be government taking to educate people like that but also why
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should we send their kids to college if that's the result? >> leslie: her so much i want to say here. first of all, my uncle harry who fought in the air force, my father who fought in the korean war and the navy, my cousin who fought in desert storm with the marines and i could go on, i am proud of what our troops have done but what our troops have done answers both of your questions and what they continue to do when i would think you, joey and the reason for that is eye is a woman in all of us here are exercising the greatest thing in the world and that is our first amendment. no other nation has it and our nation has the freedom for you to sign a petition for trying to entrap people to sign a stupid petition to speak against the president to disagree with one another and then be able to go out and have a beer together and
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that's what memorial day is and should be is thankful and remembering the men and women that have fought and died, and the men and women who have survived, and the men and women who continue to fight for our freedoms to be different from the rest of the world within our country within our borders to even be different from one another and that's okay even if it's stupid when signing a petition like this is in my opinion. >> kennedy: what goes through your mind when you see something like that? >> tomi: i think it's an inferior rating and obviously we all watch that and think it is quite laughable. we just have to laugh at it otherwise we will be very upset. but i do agree with leslie that those who fought and died for this country have fought and died for his right to be an ignorant brat and he looks like an ignorant brat and i'm glad he was on camera and television looking like an ignorant brat and hopefully someday he will look back on that and be ashamed and embarrassed about the way he spoke about the men and women who died for our country but at the end of the day, is it too
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much to ask for young people, for all people living in this greatest nation that they won't leave, is it too much to ask for them to be respectful for those who fought and died for us? i don't think so. i think that goes back to education, parenting, and the culture of this country and the desperate need of repair. >> kennedy: coming up, a surge in passengers and incidents and one that knocked out a flight attendant's teeth. what's being done and what to packing your backpacks. that's coming up next. so with your home & auto bundle, you'll save money and get round-the-clock protection. -sounds great. -sure does. shouldn't something, you know, wacky be happening right now? we thought people could use a break.
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of 2 million passengers were screened on the writing is they set out with their first mass plus holiday since the pandemic began but the travel boost also brings a dramatic increase in bad behavior. the faa says it has received 1300 reports of unruly passengers since february. fights have broken out and airports all across the country, also been several violent incidents midflight. meanwhile, southwest airlines are postponing plans to serve alcohol after a southwest passenger punched a flight attendant and knocked out two of her teeth. another passenger had jumped in to stop that attack. the airline says flew off the handle after she was told to buckle her seat belt.
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>> anxious times. you travel a lot, but on a flight seeing someone that had that tension building and the people that are anxious about flying no matter what, than people who are very passionate about use on masks of right now and there are people that are just anxious about coming back into society that haven't spent a lot of time on other people and we put them on a tiny metal cylinder and flight attendants are stuck dealing with all of this. want to get your thoughts as americans begin to get out there
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and start traveling again. >> joey: the golden rule is society's that stupid people ruin it for everyone and that's what's happening here. i understand there's a lot of fear and anxiety out there, ignorance and politicians praying on you for it but there's no excuse, literally no excuse to attack someone on a plane. there are buses and vehicles that go all over this country. you came into that building that day looking for an opportunity to ruin 200 people's day. that's not the way we treat each other, that's not civil discourse. i hate people that talk too loud on a cell phone in public, stuff like this is taking that to the millionth degree. don't be stupid and ruin everyone else's day because it's your opportunity to get a cell phone camera on you and be an overnight infamous celebrity.
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i don't understand this or that behavior at all. >> the potential no alcohol for a while rule. >> tomi: i'm not exactly sure how that's going to stop incidents from happening. i don't know if intoxicated or not but you can get alcohol in the airport so i don't know what the airlines think that they're accomplishing by that but furthermore as joey said, americans just need to do better, need to act better but i would also say this is more than just people being anxious about flying or fear, this is a cultural lawlessness that has been fostered in our country for at least the last year where people think there is no consequences for their behavior. they can do whatever they want, take whatever they want, act however they please. that's what's been going on in our country so when it spills over into an airport, the miami airport which i fly through quite often, this going to spill over into airplanes, into bus stations, into communities
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because we foster this attitude that anything they do get a pass and that needs to change. >> leslie: why can't people behave? >> kennedy: it's interesting. brings up a good point, they are not being punished for violent behavior in places like portland and you see that and when people are operating with impunity, they are just going to be jerks whenever they feel that they have to stand on a soapbox with their fist swinging and joey's absolutely right. it does not give you the right to ruin someone's day and just remember, the woman who assaulted that flight attendant was charged with felony battery and wouldn't be surprised if she gets on a no-fly list in general, so you're really destroying your own chances of future happiness if you do something like this, so just don't. it's actually not difficult to say please and thank you and be a nice person and sit there and
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watch the stuff you've downloaded and keep to yourself. pack some snacks and a few of those little bottles if you need to but there are certain airlines that are not going to serve. >> up next, items like deodorant, teeth whitener, nail polish flying off the shelves in the great american cleanup next. i brought in ensure max protein, with thirty grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks! ( sighs wearily ) here, i'll take that! ( excited yell ) woo-hoo! ensure max protein. with thirty grams of protein, one-gram of sugar, and nutrients to support immune health! ( abbot sonic ) not everybody wants the same thing. and nutrients to support immune health! that's why i go with liberty mutual
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♪ ♪ >> kennedy: i am dancing. call it the great american cleanup. deodorant, teeth whitening products are flying off the shelves as more people get vaccinated and less covid restrictions. seeing a jump in beauty and travel products and just in time for summer, swimsuits and sunscreen also in high demand and they go together
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hand-in-hand so leslie, what is behind all this, did people get fat and dirty during the pandemic? >> leslie: absolutely. i'm getting a manicure next week and maybe i am wearing yoga pants under the stress but i can't go out in public like that's my think people are getting out there and for the women and some men who like to support that ponytail or man bun have to get the hair done, have to get the haircut, have to get a shave, i've got to smell pretty and look pretty because many of us haven't been looked at by a lot of people for a long time and they're scared, scared of what people will see and certainly what people will smell and they want to put their best forward head i think that's why we're seeing all the stuff go off the shelves and it's good, putting money back into the economy. >> kennedy: that's a great point. and it really does lift the spirit will make it a little mow
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and blow, we can get our nails done, her hair fancied, do you think the single people in these united states are going to make a new round of babies with this excitement? >> joey: i love babies, have a 2-year-old daughter, would love to have ten more than i hope they raise them and love them. i think natural beauty is beautiful, at the end of the day, i know it's harder for women because there is more of this in their lives but as a guy, i put on my war paint to come on tv so i could kind of understand that at the end of the day, the great american cleanup, let's clean up some of these cities that are turning to trash and get out in the sunlight and exercise. >> kennedy: so give us three tips if people want to do a quick improvement, what are the three tips? >> tomi: you have to get your
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nails done, teeth whitener is great, what we've heard from joey as he prefers his women unshaven and undeodorized so whatever your into. i know you like the natural look but i don't know if you're single or not come up the ladies out there that are looking to keep it just as natural as possible are going to be hitting you up in the dms. the rest of us, i like my hair spray, my nails, the whole nine yards. >> kennedy: absolutely, no grizzly adams. stay hydrated, up your workout a little bit but to joey's point about cleaning up, everyone made a big deal about straws and this is something that has been really annoying me, those disposable masks are doing such horrific damage to the ocean. >> molly: i am pro-cleanup so i would also be pro cleanup the ocean as well but this pandemic
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has had such a hit on people's mental health and if you are a single person going into this pandemic and now it's finally opening up and you're allowed to go to a restaurant and a bar, you might meet someone, this great reference earlier going back, they've got a chance. they can go get your hair done in your nails done and go out and enjoy life and hopefully meet that person and make a baby that joey wants, it's going to be great. so i am pro great american cleanup. >> kennedy: i have heard the term hawkgirl summary used quite a bit so we will see if that comes to fruition. and we will be right back with more "outnumbered." stay here.
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>> as we honor our fallen soldiers today, a 100-year-old veteran is sharing his reflections on memorial day, saying it's important to remember those who made the ultimate sacrifice. robert sanchez spent 30 years as a member of the military, serving in world war ii, korea, and vietnam. he says the true heroes are those who never came back. and for him, this dame means honoring the memory of his friends. >> having special days like this one, of course, i have friends that i lost. most of my crew is gone. i am the only member of the crew that is left. i think about them often, and i think about those that you know, it is not something that you
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could forget easily. i think that heroes are not people like myself, but the heroes are these people that are not with us. >> molly: it's remarkable to still be able to hear voices like robert sanchez, and it makes me think of the stories that my grandfather told me about his time in the service. i think, clearly, this is a good time to go to you, joey, and your thoughts about this memorial day. >> joey: i appreciate that. a gentleman like that, following that up, that is just the core of america their view that as a man who has seen and done so many things in this country, when it comes to memorial day, the thing that i love for people to understand is that do not let the "those" and those who lost their lives, it means a fireman from tennessee who died when he stopped on a bomb. died two weeks, doing my job, it
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means sergeant chris mcdonald who took his life in 2012 while we were trying to get him help. my childhood best friend who is suffering from addiction and depression because he came back to an economy that wasn't working for him. it means david, who lives, losing his legs and the motion in his arms, just to die of a heart attack years later. the struggled along from the same wounds. memorial day, i want you to be happy, but i am not going to wish you a happy memorial day. please don't wish me one pure memorial day is meant specifically to honor and may member put a name and a face with those who gave their lives so that we can get on this program and argue about things that half the time don't matter anyway, or at least it seems that way when we put it in this perspective. and with that being said, i do love this country. i love everyone in it, and i thank them for being americans. >> kennedy: and thank you for your service as well. i want to bring you in here.
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maybe we will have time to give everyone a final thought. your final thoughts this memorial day? >> tomi: i will keep it quick. i think joey said it perfectly. this is a day to pay tribute and respect, but also i think that the stories that we hear from veterans and those that have lost their loved ones and their friends in battle, i think you need to be required listening and reading for those that are currently in school to understand the sacrifices made by so many appeared on this memorial day, put a face and a name to those that have fought and died for this great country that we all love. >> kennedy: leslie? >> leslie: the opening scene of "saving private ryan." we get so many people that stormed the beaches of normandy, and we are speaking english and not japanese and german as a result of that. barely 18 years old, young men, barely men. and also, an old man with a cane or a walker coming in behind him, the shot i was big, strong
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marine with the flag and a backpack. we forget some of these people walking amongst us are heroes, and even if they are on son, they need to be sung today. >> kennedy: we have run out of time, but thanks, everyone, for watching us. we move on to the next show. "fox news live." ♪ ♪ >> the nation taking time to honor the men and women who have made the ultimate sacrifice that is memorial day. president biden marking his first memorial day commander in chief by participating in the riesling ceremony at the tomb of the unknown soldier at arlington national ceremony. we will take you to the world war ii memorial on the national mall for a live report. we began with growing calls for more thorough investigations into the origins of covid-19. the former commissioner of the


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