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tv   The Story With Martha Mac Callum  FOX News  June 30, 2021 12:00pm-1:00pm PDT

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needed, it is an incredibly disappointing deal for the accusers, but the court did what it thought. and technically they had to do. >> john: as we made the point, earlier for the victims, they saw him in prison for two years in a little bit. as opposed to walking free. but now he is walking free. >> shannon: and if we hear from him or his legal team. good to see you for let men today. >> john: good >> martha: thanks. i'm martha maccallum in new york. we have three big tandem stories breaking right now. looking live at president trump, the former president of the united states and greg abbott. they're at the southern border where his commitment to securing it with a big beautiful wall helped to elect president trump in 2016. now as his very starkly demonstrated here, you can see where the wall ends and where the gap begins. he's standing on that point to make that very clear
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demonstration, that it was halted by the biden administration. we'll get you there live in just a moment. we'll speak with florida governor ron desantis as a tunnel was found in the rubble and the questions continue to raise about how long families will hold on hope in that terrible situation in florida as we learn that there are likely many in that building and around it that feared the worst before this happened. now you have a grand jury investigation that will be impanelled in that situation. and bill cosby out of his pennsylvania prison. what a story this afternoon. we believe this is a live aerial shot in collegeville, pennsylvania of him and others on their way back to the house. we're trying to positively identify that. we assume his on his way to elkins park where he has a home outside of philadelphia. we're on top of this story, this is a shocker. after the highest highest court
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in the state was the first to fall in the me too movement. dozens of women say that bill cosby drugged them and molested them. now the 83-year-old is a free man. he was out after the pennsylvania supreme court ruled a nonprosecution agreement with the previous prosecutor should have prevented the next prosecutor, whose predecessor, kevin steele, from taking on this case after that. so let's bring in donna, criminal defense attorney that represented harvey weinstein and jonathan turley. a fox news contributor. great to have you with us today. if that is cosby's car, this is quite a stunning moment, donna. your thoughts as you watch this. >> absolutely. this is such an unbelievable day for justice, i think. when we look at the system of justice, we have to remember there's nothing more important than the presumption of
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innocence, nothing more important than the way evidence is admitted at a trial and we're learning today that you know, you can't allow all of these attacks to come in. these uncharged crimes with vague evidence. i think the court was clear that if a, you make a deal, that deal should mean something and bringing in the uncharged crimes was quite a problem here. i think this is not only a wonderful day for the system under which we all live, but it's a wonderful day for others who are sitting in prison looking at this same type of situation. >> martha: you think this has any impact on your case, harvey weinstein? >> i don't see how it doesn't. we see justice rules. you know, you shouldn't allow all of these uncharged attacks to come in during a criminal trial. how those really affect what happens to someone who is charged with a crime. we have to remember that courtrooms are about fairness,
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courtrooms are about justice. may not be the result that you want to see but it's about the system under which we live. it's a big day. >> martha: a split decision and the opinion was written by justice wecht. he said it would violate long cherished principles of fundamental fairness. jonathan turley, can you lay out in laymen's terms what happened here, why did this judge make this decision at the supreme court? >> i think the court was clearly correct. this was a trial that became entirely untethered from basic principles of due process. this is part of the corrosive effect of high profile trials. the other prosecutors, the judge discarded basic guarantees of a defendant. here an earlier prosecutor determined that he did not have evidence to try cosby on these
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charges. so he agreed he would not do so if cosby agreed to participate in depositions. he took four depositions. the depositions were clearly done on the basis of this promise. then his successor just ignored it. it became what the court called a bait and switch. then magnifying that problem, the court allowed these other women whose cases were not charged in the trial to essentially present their own alleged victimization. that created i think just a pile-up of violations. this is an example where prosecutors can undermine their own case because they are getting everything that they want. this judge just let them get away with a lot of these moves.
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ultimately damned the case. the victims should be more upset with the way the judge and the prosecutor did this. if they had any chance of convicting him, they destroyed it by ignoring that agreement and having these witnesses testify on uncharged crimes. >> martha: you make an excellent point, both of you. this is about the commitment on the part of prosecutors and attorneys involved and judges to uphold due process. if you don't, you are undermining the rights of victims. you're jeopardizing their potential to have outcomes on what they believe they're testifying to. so this first jury was dead locked in this case. the assumption was that it was over. that was a dead end. so many of these women brought the accusations that outlasted the statute of limitations on
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these charges. in the second round, the judge allowed five of them to testify, which donna was referring to just a moment ago. and then there was this statement that came out from the deposition. let's put it up on the screen, which obviously got a lot of attention. a very short back and forth with andrea constance's attorney that asked when you got the quaaludes, was it in your mind that you would them to have sex with? cosby responded yes. so how much of an impact did that have once the prosecutors had that on hand, donna? >> it had a huge impact. they knew that that would be their ticket to move forward and they disregarded the agreement that they made prior to that. of course, cosby would have never sat for that deposition without that agreement. the other rights remained silent. he wouldn't have given it up. i think too, martha, this shows that the pressure of movement,
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the pressure of society, the pressure of social media and what is happening in our court system and when our court system at the state level decides to cave to that pressure. the appellate court or supreme court has to step in and say we can't let it happen. courts are the last line of defense to uphold our rights. >> martha: a great point. geraldo touched on this moments ago. jonathan essentially saying that movements take on a life of their own. we cannot allow the momentum of a movement like that, which may incite a lot of emotion and well-founded passion on the part of a lot of people to infringe upon a judge's judgment or a prosecutor's judgment in terms of how a case is handled because then in the end, they might subvert their own ability to carry out that case. >> i think that's right. people have to put a check on the sort of recreational
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approach to trials. these are real victims that deserved a better trial than this. this is a defendant that deserved day process. none of this happened because of the gravitational pull of a high profile trial. the beginning of a me too movement. people demanded a conviction. the judge and the prosecutors worked to hard to fulfill that demand. the ultimate losers, the ones i feel most sorry for are all of these victims. they lost that opportunity because of the corners cut and the excesses of this trial. >> martha: well-put. we'll keep an eye hahn this because you're looking at the driveway in elkins park, pennsylvania where we expect bill cosby to arrive at his home. he may decide to step inside and probably take a shower and get his own clothes on and feel like a normal person and say something or his attorneys may decide to do that. we'll watch closely for that. one point that donna, you made
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earlier. keep an eye on ghislaine maxwell and the epstein case here. there was also an agreement with prosecutors not to go after the co-conspirators of epstein. this is something that her attorneys will be watching closely as well. a great point that you made. donna and jonathan, thanks very much. >> thank you. >> thanks. >> martha: lots happening out here today. we are about to be joined by florida governor ron desantis who is live at surfside, florida this afternoon as the rescue mission continues and the questions continue to mount. the governor of florida joins me next. >> working in a group trying to obtain the goal. that's to save someone's life. it's been tough. id to him, you oughta customize your car insurance with liberty mutual, so you only pay for what you need.
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>> martha: at this hour, 16 people have now been confirmed dead in this horrible tragedy that we watched unfold all week in surfside, florida. 147 beloved members of families are still among those unacounted for. rescue teams found a tunnel but found no survivors. most of the wreckage is very dense. there's very few pockets of air that they have found so far. >> there's been some talk by the families. they asked me if the search will stop. are we going to turn this from a rescue to a recovery. i appreciated the governor's comments just a few minutes ago. he basically said we're not leaving anybody behind. this is going to go until we
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pull everybody out of there. >> martha: florida governor ron desantis joins us from surfside. our hearts go out to everybody in florida who is part of this tragedy. we listened moments ago from the scene there. what is your message today from this terrible scene to the families and how long the search will go on, sir? >> i can tell you, martha, since the early morning hours of thursday morning when the towers came down, until the present, it's been a nonstop effort. we have the best search and rescue people in this country that are immediately on the scene ands have been. we have all of our task forces from throughout florida mobilized for the first time in florida history outside of a hurricane context. we have people from international like israel. they've been on the pile. they've been helping out. the outpouring has been incredible. what i told the families, everything that could be done is done and being done.
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we should never just give up hope and we will identify people one way or another. obviously a catastrophic collapse. there's a heck of a lot of people that are fighting for them and working hard. you know, martha, one of the things that makes this so difficult is that someone is asleep in their bed at night. that's not when you think you'll have something like this happen. this wasn't a hurricane. this wasn't sabotage. so i think the shock has been incredible. so the dread that the families have had to live with because they didn't know. we know the building is done and they're waiting. they want good news or they want any news. it's just not that simple as you said, given the wreckage and given how difficult it is. i can tell you this. having met with a number of these families one-on-one, part of the grieving process i think is talking about how special these folks were. i can tell you, there was some awfully great people that were
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in that tower that have either died or missing right now. it's going to be tough for this community and our state to get over. because it is a big void. >> martha: we talked to a number of the families. you're right. it's excruciating for the families, what the they're going through. they want their loved ones to be remembered. there's a growing payer trail about the conversations going on. the board of the building wanted a $15 million fix on this building. there was a lot of discussion that went back and forth. people were very aware about whether or not they would chip in as a member of the condo association to do the fixing. one of the recent papers said the concrete deterioration is accelerating. now there's a grand jury. are you in favor of the grand jury process and is it separate from any criminal process?
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>> i think the grand jury process will include potential criminality. obviously we don't have evidence to think the building was intentionally brought down. but in terms of concealment or fraud, what i'll tell you as we have gotten that information in talking with the families, i think they knew there were issues with the building but they didn't believe the issues were to the extend that they were and they were not given all the information. i talked to a number of the families that had parents in there. they said look, in we would have known that, we would have taken my mother out of there. she could have stayed with us. that absolutely needs to be investigated. what was the cause and what could have been done on the association level to have remedied this or at a minimum given people the information so that the residents would make decisions for their own safety. >> martha: i heard the energy secretary, jennifer granholm suggesting that among the
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possibilities might be some impact of climate change on this building. do you think that is a tenable possibility here? >> i don't think there's any evidence of that. what we want, we want the truth about what happened so that we know if it has implications for other properties in florida and if there needs to be anything to remedy it on the state or local level. what we're not going to do is use this to advance any pre-existing agenda. there's no agenda here. we want the facts, we want the truth and we want to know what needs to be done to protect other folks that may be living in other types of building. i'll say this. florida and south florida had the strongest building codes in the country because we have to have that with hurricane season every year. am confident what is being built is being done very well. obviously this building was in the early 80s but we take it seriously down here. >> martha: good to hear.
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i know president trump is on the border right now. you have sent law enforcement from florida to help out. there's discussion about building a wall in texas and looking for funds to pay for it. would you consider sending any financial support for that since you say that wall affects the national security of the whole country? >> i don't know if we can swing that. but when they ask for personnel support, we provided it because we think it's a national issue. a lot of the drugs that come into our community, particularly methamphetamine, are coming from the southern border. texas and these states have helped us in hurricanes. so we thought we owed it and it's in florida's interest. if they have the federal stimulus money, texas applying their stimulus money to this would be very good for the country and show a lot of leadership. i support them doing that with their funds, absolutely. we're happy with our contribution. >> martha: governor, thanks very much. real quick before we go. do you expect to meet with
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president biden tomorrow? >> i think so. i think we'll do an operational update for federal, state and local. then i know he's indicated he may want to meet with some of the families. we've been doing that every day. that would be helpful for him, to be able to see just how impactful this is. it's really shattered peopled lives, this tragedy. >> martha: our hearts go out to everybody. thanks for stepping away and speaking with us. thanks. >> thank you. >> martha: we have breaking news right now. former defense secretary donald rumsfeld has died. he was 88 years old. statements goes like this.
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>> martha: the passing of donald rumsfeld.
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he served twice as the secretary of defense under president gerald ford and then again under george w. bush. he was both the youngest secretary of defense and then the second oldest secretary of defense. you can see him there with with justice gorsuch. he was born july 19, 1932 and surrounded by his family as he passed away. want to bring in jennifer griffin from the pentagon that covered donald rumsfeld a long time and the defense department for many years. your thoughts as we receive this news. >> we just received this statement from the family from donald rumsfeld's family. it says "it is with deep sadness that we share the passing of donald rumsfeld, a statesman, husband, father, grandfather and great grandfather. at 88, he was surrounded by his family in new mexico.
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he had over six decades of service. but for those that knew him best, we will remember his inwaivering love for his wife, joyce and family and friends and integrity he brought to a life dedicated to country." i starter here at the pentagon 14 years ago after president bush had replaced donald rumsfeld when secretary of defense robert gates had just taken over at the start of the surge. when i came here to begin covering the u.s. military, there's were two wars in iran and afghanistan. the war in iraq had been going on 3 1/2 years. that was a key moment when rumsfeld who had over seen the war after the 9-11 attacks, the invasion of afghanistan and then the build-up for the invasion of iraq, that key moment at the beginning of the surge, i remember journalists telling stories of how, you know,
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combative donald rumsfeld was with them at the podium. he loved going before the podium and engaging journalists and known for the quips over the year talking about the known unknowns in battle and going to war with the army you have as opposed to the army you wish you had. he was a giant in this building. he was trying to reform the u.s. military at that point when 9-11 attacks occurred. back to you. >> martha: very long history. he loved to stand at his desk. he had a lot of energy and kept people running that were going after him to ask questions. jennifer griffin, thank you very much. donald rumsfeld has died at the age of 88. let's take this look back with bret baier at his life. >> anyone thinks that it's easy is wrong. it's an attack on a way of life. >> he wore many hats over the course of his decades long
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political career. the role donald henry rumsfeld is remembered for, defense sister. the only man to hold that title twice. the most recent secretary of defense under president george w. bush. he saw our country through some of its hardest days. he was unwaivering in the decisions he made to keep americans safe. rumsfeld was born in illinois. he attended princeton and a naval aviator before running for congress. he won at 30 years old. he served four terms in congress. amid the vietnam war. went on to serve as an aide to president nixon before being appointed ambassador to nato. he became president ford's chief of staff. ford moves rumsfeld out of the
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white house and in to the pentagon as the youngest secretary of defense in u.s. history. >> it was a simpler world. we had one major problem, the soviet union was expanding. >> after president ford lord the election, he spent some years in the private sector as a top ceo. president reagan asked him to be the mideast envoy. a position that even brought rumsfeld face to face with saddam hussein, the man that would become his biggest foe two decades later. a rumsfeld biographer said he sounded early alarm bells on terrorism and threats to the u.s. homeland. >> he was trying to alert the american public to the idea that this is a new threat. it's a new kind of threat. he went so far to say we would have to hit the terrorists where they are. in order not to be hit by them
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where we are. >> that fear was manifested on september 11th, 2001. rumsfeld was serving as defense secretary a second time under president george bush. he remembered to help after the pentagon was hit. >> i felt the shock of the airplane hitting the building. went through the building. >> in the weeks that followed, rumsfeld led the response to the attack and invasions of afghanistan and iraq. >> there's people trying to do things against this country and other free people and they're having a dickens of a time. there's no paul, there's no quagmire. >> secretary rumsfeld faced heavy criticism from the start. >> greetings. >> in 2006, i sat down with secretary rumsfeld and asked him about experiencing that backlash. >> when you hear people say we won the war but lost the peace.
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>> that's nonsense. people saying we lost the war after we were in it for three days. >> his tenure was controversial for the use of enhanced interrogation techniques. the abu grave prisoner abuse scandal and conflicting information about weapons of mass destruction. despite the bush administration insisting that iraq had an active wmd program, stockpiles were never found. rumsfeld maintained the battle the u.s. maintained was unprecedented, unchartered territory. >> there was no road main available to the president or me on september 11th. the policy to go after terrorists where they are and to go after countries that harbored terrorists, the problem with terrorism is there isn't anyway to defend against it. >> he acknowledged the fight would not be a short one. >> how do you judge success in this war? >> it's very hard to do.
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first of all, this is a war that will be a long war. it's going to take years, i'm afraid, like the cold war did. we do know we're putting pressure on terrorists and life is more difficult. it's harder to raise money and move around and harder to communicate. it's more difficult to recruit people. it's difficult to measure. >> amid the criticism, rumsfeld offered his resignation in late 2006. >> it's been quite a time. it recalls to mind the statement by winston churchill, something to the effect that i have benefitted greatly from criticism and at no time have i suffered a lack thereof. >> rumsfeld and his wife joyce were married more than 50 years. she spoke about faith.
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>> i can sit next to him in church and i the feel the prayer. it's there for him and he's acknowledging his faith. >> donald rumsfeld was quiet about that faith. >> certainly your faith and your values and your experiences all contribute to decisions you make and your approach to things. your judgments about the kinds of things you're engaged in. i suppose that's true of everybody in their own lives. [taps playing]. >> in 2019, rumsfeld visited the pentagon 9-11 memorial with mark esper and former president bush, lay ago wreath and standing in prayer to pay tribute to those that lost that infamous day. near the end of his tenure in
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2006, i asked the secretary about his legacy. >> how do you want history to remember you? >> i don't think about it. >> yes, you do. >> come on. >> i don't. i don't. >> history books. when -- >> i won't be around to read them. >> somebody will. >> that's fine. let them read them. >> you have to think about legacy a little. >> i really don't. i think about doing what i'm doing. i live full days, i get up early, feel happy -- i feel fortunate to be doing what i'm doing. to be involved in something as important as this at this moment in our country's history i think is something that i feel fortunate to be involved in. >> in washington, bret baier, fox news. >> martha: our thanks to bret for that comprehensive look back at donald rumsfeld. interviewed him many times.
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it's interesting to look back and see all of that. this video that you're looking at from a republican convention. i want to bring in ari fleischer now, former president secretary for george w. bush and a fox news contributor. your thoughts as we look at this man and this life, donald rumsfeld lost today at the age of 88. >> you know, i was very fond of donald rumsfeld. i knew him very well. we worked together on a lot during the bush years is. martha, the first time i ever met him it was so fascinating. it was during the transition. george bush just named donald rumsfeld to return as secretary of defense. i got a phone call from a reporter at a chicago newspaper that had audio tapes of richard nixon speaking in the oval office, ranting and raging racist statements as young donald rumsfeld sat there. the reporter wanted to know what rumsfeld reaction was. so i got the audio tapes, i had to sit down with the former secretary of defense.
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i never met him before and play nixon audio tapes for him and asked him what he remembered. i thought is he scared. will he not get in the cabinet now? why did this young man not object to the president? it was fascinating to watch donald rumsfeld look at them through that lens of audios tapes from 30 years earlier. then i got to work with him regularly on so much. it was an administration. we had two wars at the time. i worked closely with donald rumsfeld on the messages and communications. i will miss him. a rye man and sharp man and enjoyable man. >> martha: what was his reaction after you played the tape for him? >> you know, he didn't remember them. that was the thing. he said i didn't even know there was a recording system. >> that could be said a lot. >> yeah, he didn't know. nobody knew. so he got to hear that voice for the first time. so we're watching his face.
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it was just seeing this look on himself about i had no idea that was in there. i had no idea i was on these recordings. the substance of it he didn't remember nixon's rant. he had a few of them, i suppose. the story was a very fair story. it wasn't a got-you story. he went on to be confirmed as secretary of defense. >> martha: interesting to look at the photos that we just saw in bret's piece of the first time that donald rumsfeld was the secretary of defense and also chief of staff for president ford. who is there with him but richard cheney, dick cheney. you see them working together in the second round in george w. bush's administration where he really did bring back a lot of people who had advised his father, who advised former presidents in to his administration, ari. >> let me reset the table a little. your viewers may remember the last years of the bush
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administration. the first two, three years, george w. bush was tremendously popular. so was donald rumsfeld. the war in afghanistan was going extremely well. iraq. people supported the iraq war until we learned there were no weapons of mass destruction. so much of what donald rumsfeld did was widely supported. he would hold news conferences every afternoon during both wars. one day president bush was killing donald rumsfeld. he said you're so popular with these afternoon news conferences, you're an afternoon teen idol. everybody in the oval laughed. how could this old guy be a teen idol? the afternoon matinee teen idol. he was. people wanted to turn in and listen to his take what was happening in the war in afghanistan and the war in iraq. at the time they were largely successful military operations and largely supported by the american people. donald rumsfeld was highly
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sought of at that time. it started to unwant after abu grave and we didn't find the weapons of mass destruction. people should remember what donald rumsfeld delivered for our country. >> it's interesting to listen to the biography for donald rumsfeld talk about the fact that he was understanding of the threat posed by terrorism and hi wanted to stop it over there to prevent it from coming here. that became the harsh imaginable reality on september 11th. >> yep. look how that endures. joe biden just ordered a military operation against syria and iran. the fact that we have a forward defend was set up in the bush administration and used by president obama, president trump and president biden. donald rumsfeld helped engineer that. >> martha: thanks very much, ari fleischer. former press secretary, of
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course. great to have you with us today. karl rove is also with us, former deputy chief of staff to george w. bush. he joins us on the phone. karl, donald rumsfeld would have turned 89 this july. your thoughts this afternoon. >> what a remarkable and long career. people forget he was elected to congress when he was 30 years old. he just turned 31 shortly thereafter. to have served as he did, chief of staff to president ford, ambassador to nato, twice the secretary of defense. the youngest secretary of defense. the second time, the second oldest secretary of defense in history. he was a very remarkable man. i was interested to hear ari talk about rumsfeld supervising the war effort to fight them over there so we didn't have to fight them here. another anning toll that as well, which is this.
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donald rumsfeld before 9-11 came into office, charged with the responsibility of modernizing the american military. when he came into office as secretary of defense, we had armed forces to built to fight the soviet in europe. gigantic tanks. we had large units, lots of armor. he knew in the 21st century when we looked at asymmetrical warfare, we needed smaller units, more mobile in the ability to kill and full special operators. that's the military that we have today. what he did as secretary of defense to modernize the military is something that last two presidents benefitted from and future presidents will benefit as well. >> martha: a great point, karl. you think about the wars that this country has fought, world
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war i, world war ii and each juncture, somebody had the foresight to know what the next battle looked like. world war ii was heavily reliant on amphibious vehicles and air power. you make a wonderful point. he talked about that so much. the fact that he was looking ahead to figure out what kind of battle we needed to fight. there was a lot of resistance to what he presented on that. it is the formation of the defense we have today. >> absolutely. also am reminded of the man. he was a wonderful human being. he had the most magnificent smile. he was quick to smile. always had a good kind word for people. in my early days in the white house, i walked into my office one day from a meeting. there was donald rumsfeld inspecting my stand-up desk. we both worked in stand-up desks. mine was a big one.
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he was was a small one. he got a hell of a lot more work done in his desk than i did at mine but he heard i had a stand up desk so he wanted to see what it looked like. he was a wonderfully kind man. courteous, an old-style gentleman. he was funny. he loved the fact that he played, you know, racket ball with men half his age or a third of his age. he would whip them. not because they allowed him too but because he was that good. he was just a kind person to be around. he would host gatherings on the eastern shore of maryland. he taught his dog to retrieve a disc. one time we were there. the dog would grab the disc. i was complimenting him on it. he said can you do as well as my
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dog? that was the kind of guy he was. a great -- really smart and fun to be around. >> martha: very proud princeton graduate that attended many reunions there. thanks, karl. good to have you with us. >> thank you. >> martha: senator tom cotton joins us from arkansas. he sits on the armed services committee. good to have you with us. you are a veteran yourself. this is a former two-time defense secretary. your thoughts on his passing and the conversations that we're having right now. >> yeah, martha. don rumsfeld had an incredible life, well-lived. a navy aviator before he went to public service. he served three terms in congress. elected when he was 30 years old to congress. our ambassador to nato, the youngest secretary of defense. left for 25 years and then back
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as secretary of defense when i joined the army in 2005. so i just think today is a time to reflect on the life service, the deep patriotism and send our condolences to his wife, joyce of almost 70 years and also to his family. america has lost a true gentleman and a patriot today. >> martha: there's been a lot of discussion about the military today and the direction that it is taking. whether or not it has sort of focused on things that they shouldn't. general milley said that's not the case. but as you look at that and look at the leadership of donald rumsfeld who admitted when he resigned, the brunt of a lot of criticism at times. what are your thoughts on then versus now? >> well, both times don rumsfeld took over at secretary of
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defense, he was dealing with a military that needed to modernize and look to the future. in the 70s, we came out of vietnam. transitioning to an all-volunteer military. a good transition. the regan build-up. in 2001 he became secretary of defense, we were trying to move up where we had been for 45 years, fighting a heavy land water against like the soviet union. the kind of war that we were ready to fight and won very easily in 1991 but that was no longer the fight of the future. we would have low intensity insurgencies. we thought fighting would occur in space or cyber space. don rumsfeld in the business world in the 80s and the 90s remained engaged. he sat on public commissions and rang the alarm on matters. he talked about missile defense in those days. both teams when he became
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secretary of defense, he took charge of a military that needed to begin to update and modernize its doctrines and tactics and mission and he succeeded both teams he was secretary of defense. >> martha: senator cotton, thank you very much. good to have you with us today as we remember the life of don rumsfeld, two-time secretary of defense. on the phone with us is bret baier. we just watched your look back at donald rumsfeld's life which featured a number of your interviews with him. probing questions over the years that he served. your thoughts as we get this news today, bret. >> it's a sad day, a day of reflection. you touched on his service, six decades in these jobs and positions. i remember him as a guy that was really tough to nail down on questions. he answered not answering
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questions better than anybody i had ever seen. he was larger than life. at the beginning of the war in afghanistan, the press briefings that i sad in at the pentagon were must-see tv. it was daily watching. in part, it was about rumsfeld. everybody wanted to hear what was happening with the war-to-be and what happened in the war. it was rumsfeld's ability to kind of back and forth with the press corps and the pentagon press corps. and just one quick story. i was traveling with him over to pakistan. every time i was in the briefing, my go-to question was do you know where osama bin laden is. do you have any tracking on osama bin laden? do you think he could -- you could find him? so the press corps would get bored with that question. they knew it was coming. i was traveling with him on air force 2.
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actually, air force 3. we went to the beginning part where he called a press briefing with everybody around him. everyone went around with questions. they came to me. all the press knew that i was going to ask the bin laden question because we were heading to pakistan. i paused and said do you think osama bin laden knows where you are? he cracked up. he had a great sense of humor. an amazing marriage to his wife, joyce. that's what i think about today. his career. >> martha: and the weapons of mass destruction issue and things that were more problematic for him. he was seen as a neoconservative and a hawk in many ways. he was criticized for that. he never apologized for any of it. you know, he was a fierce defender of defending the united
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states of america in his role. you covered all of that, bret. >> he took a lot of criticism. obviously the weapons of mass destruction, a lot of people took that criticism. he was at the forefront of secretary of defense. not finding wmd in iraq. also, abu grave. remember the prisoners and the way they were treated. that investigation into that prison, abu grave, led to rumsfeld offering his resignation. that was a dark time in his service. but look after he left office. some of the left would say in disgrace. others would say he served admirably throughout. afterwards he set up a foundation to bring in kids from around the world and instruct them about the the need for
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democracy and spreading kind of american values. you know, he was a unique individual. i don't think we're going to see somebody like that in that level of service for some time. >> martha: yeah. you know, you look at him. he's sort of the mold of the ivy league man who had a very long political career. very much in some ways in terms of resumes similar to george h.w. bush in his trajectory. spend time in the navy and ran nor congress. he served the country his entire life, bret. it is sort of a mold. i look at him in the little round glasses that are reminiscent of men from world war ii and that era. it is sort of the end of the passing of an era with donald rumsfeld in many ways. >> it is. i mentioned his wife, joyce. she was with him throughout that. they would host occasionally
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reporters from the pentagon press pool. they would, you know, have drinks and talk about what was happening. i remember being in a room with joyce. at that time i think it was 55 years they were together. i said, mrs. rumsfeld, how you do that? 55 years? what is the secret? she looked at me and said said, you know, bret, don travels a lot. they had this beautiful sense of humor. i think to be remembered for that service is really i think the hit that. >> indeed it did. we're watching all of these images. any thoughts on his relationship with dick cheney? we see lots of photos and pictures. they worked together a lot. >> yes. i mean, they worked for each
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other. in the nixon white house, as defend secretary and then dick cheney takes over as defense secretary. and then the decision as dick cheney is helping george bush come up with a cabinet to choose don rumsfeld as defense secretary. cheney is a big part of that. so that relationship ran deep. both men obviously spent a lot of time in office. >> martha: indeed. thanks, bret. bret baier, anchor of "special report." we'll switch gears here. we're hearing that bill cosby will address the public. more on this breaking news after this. stay with us for more. the newday 100 va loan lets you borrow up to 100% percent of your home's value. with today's rates near all-time lows
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he said on the morning of september 11, don rumsfeld ran to the fire and then would give steady service as a wartime secretary of defense. the nation remembers the service of donald rumsfeld as he has passed this afternoon at the age of 88. that is a story on a busy and meaningful afternoon here, june 30th "the story" continues tomorrow. we'll see you back here tomorrow. >> neil: this is the scene outside bill cosby's home in pennsylvania. he's a free man and minutes away from speaking to the world after he was issued an opinion that allowed him to leave jail after the court issued the opinion that he could not be charged in the first place because of previous agreements with the prosecutor. there's supporters in pennsylvania outside his home


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