tv Bulls and Bears FOX News May 15, 2010 10:00am-10:30am EDT
have a soldier who was officially dead for 15 minutes and came back to life. and came back to life. >> after the show show. captioned by closed captioning services, inc. >> stocks still getting whack waxed over the financial wreck around the globe. now, signs some world governments are getting the message. greece cutting, spain, cutting, the u.k. raising taxes to raise revenue. the u.s., well, we just keep spending. the white house making an emergency 23 billion dollar request for states just this week and someone here says, great! keep the spending going. hi everyone, i'm brenda buttner, this is bulls and bears, let's get to it. bulls and bears, tobin smith, eric bolling, pat mccall and talk show house, david goodfriend. we'll tell you who is spending,
is it healthy. >> 23 billion dollars that's the latest greatest amount they wanted a 150 billion a couple of weeks ago. the jobs bills are costing us billions and billions and billions more, in the meantime, we're bailing out greece, the eu, 325 billion from the imf. we're already broke, we need to stop spending and do things like cut back like greece or i don't know, maybe cut taxes and create real jobs and not keep spending and no real jobs created. >> well, david, we're on a spending spree a bit. you say, hey, take out the credit card, huh? >> hey, if we're stuck in a rut, which we are, we're trying to get out of the worst recession since the great depression, if i'm driving my car out of a rut, a muddy rut and food on the accelerator and trying to get the car out and just about to get it out. do i take my foot out of the accelerator? no, gun it and get it out and
that's what world economists all sides have agreed. first four month of 2010, if we continue in this pace job growth the next eight months, one year we will created more jobs than all eight prior years combined and we're on the right track and working and keep it going. >> brenda: how many jobs have been lost in the recession though, and that's the problem. toby. >> absolutely, so don't take your foot 0 off the accelerator when it's working. >> a metafor, the indy 500. >> brenda: kind of depends what kind of car you're driving. >> and whether or not the car is paid off. look it, we're in a situation now where the business cycle is kicking in and you know, the business cycle is the thing that happens because of psychology, because the inventory gets too low and guess what, just when we're going now, we have the greece situation showing us that if we actually did spend the type of money we have, our interest rates would go crazy. if our interest rates went crazy, forget about what car you're driving, man, when you're paying 10% interest rates on your debt.
that's 'cause the engine is going to seize. that's what we have to worry about. the business cycle is doing what it normally does. let's let it do it and cut back spending so we continue to grow the next six months. >> that's the problem with printing the money which is essentially what we're doing. >> i'll tell you the analogy my friend mentioned is good. why, interest rates, where are they, my friends? is this greece. >> no, great britain, no, lowest taxes since 1950. what does it tell us, there is no crowding out effect on capital markets due to debt yet. >> yet. >> the point is we are he not there yet. and that's-- >> we keep spending we're going to be there. >> okay. >> we start now, going to be drunk soon just not yet. >> well, for you, i'm not going there. all right. matt. >> and i actually agree with you a little bit. do the spinning to get out of the recession we're in. i agree with that however, look at gdp and economic cycle things are getting better, it's time to stop. if we do not stop now we will be
spain or ireland or italy in a year or two and then blow up and what happens, we have to pay the piper. >> brenda: you say that's-- >> let me say that's right and if we put our dukes down for a minute. this is a question of timing. this is a question of timing. we can all agree, as all economists on both sides of the aisle did early in 2009, necessary, now, the question is-- >>. >> brenda: wait a minute, no, no, hold on a minute. many don't believe of the notion that spending gets you out of a recession. >> and they're in the trash heap of history because in 2009, the american enterprise institute, you have liberal congress and-- >> all the same economists who did not see the recession, did not see the bank issue, did not see the bull market, but god bless them here we are. >> what do we do now. >> brenda: okay, hold on. stop spending. >> right, brenda, you have to stop spending, why do we continue to spend why the 450
billion dollar jobs package. >> brenda: hold on. >> out of a recession that we were coming out of anyway, david. >> brenda: there we go. >> the unseen hand of, i don't know, the market, right? it's going to happen anyway, right? we didn't have to do anything. we'd be in a depression right now if we all listened to you guys. >> brenda: some people do believe that government-- hold on. pat shall the very polite pat, you get in there now. >> i'll take it back to a question voice add couple of moments ago, what do we do now? what we do, we have the political courage to change the debate from cheap political points around spending now and whether the stimulus is good or bad, bridges to nowhere and tackle the difficult stuff like social security, medicare and medicaid, that only a few lone voice ins congress are willing to talk about and very little discussed because it's difficult and because getting political support to cut those three programs is virtually impossible. >> and spend. >> and let's change the debate
and talk about those, they're the real issues. >> well, but we have the advantage, we're not greece or spain because we print our own money, they don't. they're behind the eight ball. the bigger issue we saw the proverbial bond vigilantes and take them out and kill them because they're out of control. we're at the point we can make the deflection point and get into the fiscal-- >> and the market. >> brenda: hold on, hold on. go ahead. >> and the bond vigilantes would be to tackle those long-term entitlements that are going to crush us, ten and 20 years down the road. >> brenda: let me tell you something, david, you were nodding your head, we have to do this. you really think that getting rid of medicare, that actually tacking, tackling social security is something that anybody in d.c. has the political will to do? >> yeah, it's in the form of the
deficit commission that was formed and in fact, we wanted to have it by binding by law over six republicans switched their votes at the last minute if that failed. and now we have a president's commission, let's see what they come up with. >> let's see what they come up. >> what they're going to come up with. >> just a minute, just a minute. and that's right, that's right, let's do it. the big three, the last time i was on the show tad mentioned this, yes, medicare, medicaid, social security and defense that's all on the table. >> brenda: hold on, eric. >> i'm just pointing out that we are still, we're not taking our foot off the accelerator as we come out of recession, it doesn't make any sense. david, you're crediting obama with creating jobs, we've lost 3 1/2 million jobs, not since the recession since he signed the stimulus panel. 862 billion dollar stimulus package. that doesn't create jobs, puts people to work for a couple of
weeks and sometimes it's wasted. so, we need to now take the money back, unspent money and boy, do we really need to cut back spending. >> in particular we can do it now our interest rates are low because everybody else is so messed up. let's not get messed up, that's my economic formula. >> somebody tell me you think we're on the wrong track, tell me you think-- >> i will. >> oh, everybody raise their hands. >> on the wrong track. >> too much. >> good, now, let's talk about that, the job growth rate now is faster and better than it's ever been in the eight years we've seen previous. what does that tell us? >> okay, hold on, hold on. >> that's what. >> there are many reaps for that, we're not going to get into that, but what a good debate. all right! this is why voters are saying, if you voted for a bailout, we'll vote you out. both democrats and republicans getting the boot in these primary elections. the next one is days away and you know who is on it. neil, first, new reports, americans are, get this, turning
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away. the thai capital is too dangerous and the embassy offering to evacuate family members of the staff and over the days it's turned into a war zone as protesters try to topple the government. so far, 22 people have been killed. well, the dutch boy, the only survivor of that deadly plane crash in libya is back in the netherlands. the nine-year-old treated in libya for multiple leg fractures and a medical evacuation plane carrying him, his aunt and uncle touching down a short time ago. his parents and older brother are among 103 people who lost their lives in the crash on wednesday. i'm kelly wright. now back to bulls and bears log on to foxnews.com. >> brenda: this report might make you red under the collar. more white collar and blue collar companies looking for workers, but some folks are actually saying no thanks to the job offers, so they can keep collecting unemployment. what's congress doing about it?
planning to extend jobless benefits again. matt? >> oh, this is ridiculous in my mind. i mean, if you can get free money to sit on your behind and not go out and look for work, what are you going to do? sit on your behind and not look for work. that's not what the country is built on. the country is built on innovation and getting out there. when times are tough get out. how about in michigan, up to 387, if you make $12 landscaping, you make $350. what incentive does a person have to get out and get a job? nothing. >> brenda: david, should we extend benefits. i think that's a made up problem and made up story, you have no data. we know that less tan 7% that are unemployed are there voluntarily. what does it mean? everybody else by the fact they collect, they're saying they want a job and i'll give you some examples, anecdotes of my own come back to home state of
wisconsin and the shut down janesville, gm plant and tell me that the guys who are sitting there begging for work want to stay on unemployment. the american work force is different than that. a different work ethic here. >> brenda: we have great sympathy for the people who are unemployed and it could be any of us. the president's own assistant treasury secretary says that unemployment insurance causes the unemployed to stay unemployed longer. >> yeah. >> brenda: toby? >> larry summers, god bless him, a study not only and they went back the 70's, 80's, 90's, every time they went through it, not necessarily unemployed auto worker, but describing other situations out there. the data is clear that what happens is-- >> what data? >> this is data done by-- let me say it slower, three separate 20-year economic studies. is that enough for you? okay. i thought so. >> i'm telling you the populated
7%, less than 7% is there voluntarily. >> i heard you, i heard you, now you hear me. when we find that people hold off going to look for work until the last week of that employment check, that is the physical statistical fact and it actually raises unemployment rates. >> brenda: and now you can-- hold on, you can stay out 99 weeks on the dole and stay out-- that far. hold-- >> let me ask you this question. i don't buy this, let's take this to economics and got done saying that the country is moving out of recession and agreeing that job growth is in the right direction. >> brenda: okay. >> now you're saying we are going to take the one thing that really helps stabilize during a recession, and keeps the pressure on growth and you're going to remove it, that's crazy. >> brenda: we're discussing a different issue. pat, take it on. >> 99 weeks seems a little long (laughter) >> except when you're
investing, right. eric, you've got some numbers for you. >> well, i was going to touch on matt's numbers, that you're not taxed on unemployment benefits. it really almost comes to the point where it's just equal to stay home rather than looking for work, david, you know, you talk about saying that it's not an incentive. 99 weeks. of course it is. now, you know, next week, i'll look next week until you get to the 99th week and better go get a job and then they do, they go out and get a job, it's harsh, but the bottom line you're not intersent advising people to go out and work and-- >> hold on, david, wait a minute, david, hold on, you are our good friend, but hold on let's go to matt. >> the reason the unemployment rate jumped to 9.9% is influx of people that are now looking for jobs. 'cause they realize that their unemployment benefits are running out and they have to go out and get jobs now. that proves a point that people are now getting concerned that they can't sit on the government's check every week. >> actually this is incorrect.
people are coming back into the-- people are coming back in the work force, that's why the unemployment figure, most economists agree, is less important than the employment dproet figure. that is, you want to look at jobs actually created as opposed to people discouraged workers they're calling them, back in the work force. >> you can't discount. >> brenda: david, quiet, please, i'm sorry. >> come on-- go ahead. >> you can't discount the other real studies not by economists, but socialologists the entire sciences says that human beings in america and other parts of the world when they're extended unemployment benefits they work less and do not seek jobs. that's a fact. you want the unemployment-- >> majority do not use the full amount of time. >> brenda: the obama administration even said so. but anyway, thanks, guys. there you go. that's it, just no. i like that, he gets the last word in better than you do,
gap. the governator announcing spending cuts. eric, you say the first cut should have been illegal. >> illegal in the state alone. 36 million people, i don't know you take the top available workers, about 4 or 5 million jobs you could be creating and also taking those 5 million people off the unemployment line and let's not forget the health care that we have to provide for them and the legal illions and americans in california. by the way, mr. governator, great, cut 12 billion, fantastic, but first let's, you know, it's hard, as bad as it sounds, ship the illegals back to mexico and canada, wherever they came from. >> brenda: what do you say, david. >> i think that my friend eric is forgetting tax revenue and income taxes that illegals pay the state of california. rather than use ago punching bag, let's look at what happens in any economy an influx of
immigration, germany during world war ii. a strata that let everybody move up. >> brenda: illegal. >> legal as well as illegal. >> brenda: toby, what do you have to do to make it work. >> you have to tab the illegal and cut the benefits. i don't know how we ship out 4 million people, but i know if you stop the actual health-- the medicare and medicaid and food stamp every other pieces this have puzzle that california puts out. that's about 12 1/2 billion dollars right there. so, get rid of them, but stop the benefit fle and have them pay tacks and have them pay sales taxes and all of that stuff like normal americans are doing why, but why pay the benefits. >> the figure you came up with. >> 12 million worth of benefits-- >> your math is not working, you're leaving out revenues, you math doesn't work. >> i want both. >> brenda: and revenues max--
>> it's easy, what's the worst state we have in the nation, economy-wise, california. which has the most amount of illegal aliens. >> california. you can easily figure out what's going on there. >> i love your logic, love your logic, maybe only states that have a bear on their flag, maybe that's why we have the worst economy. your logic is just faulty. >> brenda: let matt finish. >> you also mention that the coming into lower echelon of the scale. yes, they are. and that also is a bigger burden on the taxpayers as well so the people are actually paying taxes are getting hit harder, less spending bad for the economy so it's a big vicious cycle. >> brenda: i've got to let pat get? >> by matt's logic, if i took lots of steroids i'd have a head like barry bonds. >> illegal, illegal aliens bring down the wages, too. >> my position on this hasn't changed since last week, which is that immigration, legal and illegal, is the only thing
preventing this country from having the same demographic disaster as every other developed nation. germany, japan, u.k., you name it, we're the only one not facing their demographic problems and one the big reasons, not the only one, but a big reason is immigration, legal and illegal. >> brenda: eric ten seconds. >> let's not forget the wage, actually put downward precious on wages, illegals will take less than legals. >> brenda: david you can have the last word, no. that's the last word. >> i just think-- >> no, you can't do that. one word, thanks, guys and thank you, david for joining us. >> thank you. >> brenda: before you whack it, read it. >> have you read the arizona law? >> i have not had a chance to, i've glanced at it, i've not read it. >> brenda: a stunning admission from the u.s. attorney general, the one company that could have helped him read all 15 pages and the name preventing future oil
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>> predictions? matt's up first. >> i think the off shore ban drilling continues for a little while and i want to buy natural gas to come back on drill on shore and lynn energy, up. 9.9% dividend. i love it so much actually i own some myself. >> brenda: pat, bull or bear. >> not a big fair. the debt structure is not to me. >> brenda: tobin. >> playboy says they're coming out with 3-d and matt and i
worked carefully on that. i think you look at lexotica not only up in value, but 3-d filled in. >> brenda: matt, you like that. >> i don't like that. i like the playboy part of it, but who is going to pay $200 for abouted. >> brenda: pat. >> or shore oil rigs, i suspect a little more going on. seven times earnings a bet i want to make. >> brenda: bull or bear. >> hard to argue, i'm a bull on this one. >> brenda: eric. >> eric holder couldn't read the document, the arizona bill so maybe this book, immigration reform for dummies would help or hewlett packard up 30% for the fake i.d.'s the illegal immigrants are going to be using-- >> now, that's a story. >> brenda: toby do you-- >> look it, i'm an apple guy all the way. hewlett packard, i don't know how many fake i.d.'s, apple is going to sell a lot of stuck. >> brenda: i tell you what, no dumms