reservoir has reached the danube river. full details tonight. the first of the big blue chip companies reporting and a number in a moment and ahead with the big jobs reported, nine million collecting jobless benefits already. a record 41.8 million on food stamps. and the speaker of the house says "bring it on." the biggest bang for the buck when you to food stamps and employment insurance, the biggest bang for the buck. >> welcome, everyone, i am here for neil cavuto. want to stimulate the economy? give people more food stamps the speaker says for every $1 that goes in $1.79 goes into the economy we will focus on food

stamps ahead of a big jobs report that is specificked to show a rise in the unemployment rate. so, are they really getting the best bang for the buck with food stamps? democratic strategist says "yes," and welcome back. i have heard all the complicated economic art you put a dollar next you get 1.72 out. answer this question: if you get such a big bang, why, with 41 million people on food stamps, we are not getting much of a bank? >> we don't want these people living on the streets or their children to go hungry and be without clothes, it creates bang for the booed. you give them food stamps they buy food. >> we have a rising number on food stamps and that number is going after after spending $1 trillion in stimulus and a rising food stamp situation. >>guest: everyone agrees we

want to put people back to work even those on food stamps would rather be back to work. >> and you think the way is to put more on food stamps? >>guest: absolutely not but if they need the food stamps, they need emergency relief they should be able to get it. we want people to have proper nutrition. >> do you create jobs if you extend unemployment benefits beyond the 99 weeks? >>guest: what you to when you extend unemployment you allow people to pay the rent and the landlord collects the rent or the bank collects the ploarght and they keep people employed and spend the money. if you don't give them unemployment benefits they are on the street and are drains on society. >> tax cuts, tax cuts, that is how you get bang for your buck. >>guest: you say tax cuts, if i give all dollar in message benefits you will spend it on what you need. we know that. >> that isen true. >>guest: i am not against tax

cuts but there has to be a balance, people are hurting and the economy has not fully recovered from the recession that was created by george bush. >> are you proud of an america where a record number of people are on food stamps? is this the kind of america that you want do see? >>guest: i am proud i live in a country that cares for people no need and i am proud to be a christian in america that cares about people that don't have. >> you don't think it is making us like europe, slow growth? >>guest: we have hit a bump in the road and we will recover. i believe in the country and our economy and i believe we will recover from where we are and we will be back on track shortly. >> speaker pelosi says you get bigger bang for the buck by food stamps, but unemployment insurance, a bigger bang for the buck than by giving tax breaks to the rich. you say, she is correct and you are in favor.

>>guest: she states you get the biggest bang, if you put a dollar out in food stamps it returned $1.75 to the economy. >> what, wait a second, wait a second. >>guest: the tables i have seen have been consistent. people spend the money. >> if you take a dollar out of private enterprise and give it to the government, force it to the government and the government spends it you get more bang for your buck when the government spends it than when a private individual spends it? that is flatout wrong. >>guest: people will get it and spend it on things they need. on food. and clothes. and buying food and clothes employs people in the food and clothing industry. we know that. >> we will deal with the facts, the top 5 percent of income earners control 37 percent of the spending. when you let them keep pore of their money they will spend more

and what they do not spend they invest and that is how you create jobs. that is a reality. >>guest: that is flawed logic because they have had more of the money in the past ten years and they have not spent it. we need jobs created no you in this country. are they worried? no, they are just not spending because the first thing to do is save. that is what people do with a tax cut, they take it and save it for a rainy day. >> sow think you take more off the rich, increase their tacts to more than 50 percent of everything they take home, and you give it to the government, they recollect it to food stamps and welfare of various kinds, that is the kind of america you want and you think will get us back to solid ground. >>guest: i want america to look at economic and tax policy and finds a way to pay for the programs they need and to pay for the taxes. if we can find a way to pay for the tax cuts i am for it.

>> if only history backed you up. >>guest: history shows that america recovers and gets stronger and i am confident it will. >> history is on america's side, don't you forget it, that is why you came here. wish(e) had more time. do machines want food stamps? or do they want jobs? and now, how this is plan i playing out with the elections around the corner. that is the question, frank: food stamps or jobs? >>guest: paychecks. gingrich said do you want a paycheck or food food stamps. after all the surplus which the american people oppose by 3-2 and the huge bailout which the people pose by 2-1 and after cap and trade or the attempt which the american people oppose by almost 2-1 you look at all the things that washington was supposed to have done for people and you know what the membership think, stop doing it to us.

just stop, washington. stop spending and let us keep our money so we can spend it for ourselves and the proof is the republicans have a advantage in the house race, the g.o.p. is going to capture the house of representatives because the previous guest does not understand in thend the american people don't want government bailouts, they want to be work for a living and be able to pay their taxes and they want washington to leave them alone. >> back to the original argument which is between gingrich and speaker pelosi and run a tape to show you what we are talking about, the basic argument. it is very, very wrong, what is the message there? that government is working for somebody else? and not you? if you don't have food stamps. this is a very, very dangerous terrain to go down. >> this is the speaker, looking

compassionate, that the government is compassionate, helping feed the poor. does that attract votes? >>guest: it would attract votes if you saw an end to the economic morass we are in but if you saw employment going up, or you shah an end to the mess we have now fell for. but we do not see that. but what we see is a deficit that is out of the control and all time records. we see a debt that our kids will never be able to pay off. we see red ink as far as the eye can see. what else is there to see? >> and let me jump in, you are the master of polling, i don't think i can remember a time and i have lived in america 38 years, i can't remember when debt, the national did the was so high on the list of voter concerns, and i think jobs is number one, but, debt, is right up there number two or three. >>guest: number two is wasteful washington spending because that leads to debt which is number three and you have been here 38 years why do you

still have an accents? >> i can't lose it. >>guest: it is a reason why the american people are saying "enough is enough." and here is what i don't understand: the democrats are still talking about prying tax relief to only some americans and talking about another stimulus package, and they are actually promoting those things that the american people said in every survey we don't want it, and it is as though they have stopped listening to the american people and a pollster that is what i don't understand. >> early in this interview, you said that the republicans are going to take the house. they need 39 wins, change overs, and i am hearing that they may get a lot more than that. i have actually heard predictions they could get 80, 90 seats in the house of representatives and you are shaking your head. is this something that will not happen or you don't want people to say it publicly because it changes expectations? >>guest: it will not happen. our job is to be straightforward

with the viewer and say what we see and see what we say. i do believe the republicans take the house is but i am not convinced they take the senate but i am convinced that a majority of the american people are saying to washington, dc, right now, "enough is enough," it's time for a change. the question is, how big is that change? and will the democrats who are still going to occupy the white house, will they get the pledge? always a pleasure, thank you. and then there is this: (inaudible lyrics) a lot more press following lady gaga an because forbes named her the most powerful women in the world up there with obama, hick hib, and oprah but we have

someone more powerful than lady gaga, the most powerful man on the web, >>neil: until whose interviews and compelling commentary got lady gaga beat. today we ask speaker pelosi says food plamps are for the economy the biggest bang for the buck, and do you agree? vote and we will bring you the results. stay tuned. when i had my heart attack, i couldn't believe it.

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>> and the jobs report today, a new report raising questions today. why, for the first time, are temporary election workers being counted in the rolls? and now our reporter is breaking the story. temporary poll workers who will be used in the november elections, may be counted on the employment rolls in tomorrow's report, correct? >>reporter: this is a mystery because the key word is "may." i have not been able to solve. the i.r.s., in may, ruled that for the first time the poll workers, people who it is at the election centers, and take down people's names, are no longer

independent contractors, they are employees of the election board. and we don't know what that means and the labor department as of two days ago did not know what that means, either, if they are reported in the labor numbers. >> so authorities around the country have a choice, they could inject the workers into the employment rolls and skew the numbers, that is a possibilities? >>reporter: i wrote this in the "new york post," today and two weeks ago, the board of election in new york city has sent out a note to all the works saying they would not be hired or paid, unless they filled out tax forms because the i.r.s. decided that they were employees and not contract workers. that was the only one we had seen. so, in conversations with the labor department, which had no idea about this we tried to figure if this was nationwide and we considered a county in north carolina got the same ruling. the mystery is, today we found out that, indeed, there was a

ruling in may. in may the ruling came down but no one knew of it until august weapon the new york city election board sent it out to the works. >> in brooklyn, new york, when the city where the memo has again out there are 20,000 or 30,000 in brooklyn alone. >>reporter: in new york city there in brooklyn, there are 36,000 workers. >> but if they are considered as employees, that would skew the numbers because we expect no job creation tomorrow. >>reporter: that is just one area, one city. i have reports from colorado, denver, i believe, they were not forced to fill out tax forms so we are not sure what it was. now the labor department was working on the assumption that this was a ruling that only affected certain areas which i thought was silly because tax

ruling is obviously going to be national. and why are they doing it? that is the question. >> you raised two possibilities maybe there is skewing of the numbers in tomorrow's report. that is a poll. and, maybe it was politically motivated that is a possible. >>reporter: they are not mutually exclusive, you skew the numbers if you want a political advantage or as simple as collecting taxes on old people that work at the positives they make $500 for the primary and general election and trading so you probably owe $40 on taxes. and we can use every dollar we can get. or, in may, when the jobs reports were getting weak, and the people who were doing the census were coming out of the survey, someone decided that the other workers should be counted. and it is nod made public. >> we will find out tomorrow morning, when way or the other.

stay tuned. [ j. weissman ] it was 1975. my professor at berkeley asked me if i wanted to change the world.

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all extraordinary news on the stimulus program coming over the wires. 89,000 strange bogus stimulus checks were sent out, $250 each included checks to 72,000 dead people. those checks totaled $18 million but half were returned.

checks also went out to 17,000 prison inmates. problems with the stimulus? more on it later. mortgage rates have infer been lower. the national average for a 30 year fixed rate loan falling below 4.3 percent for the first time ever. mortgage rates are down, clearly. but taxes are going up. huge hits expected for all americans' paycheck in january even if the bush tax cuts are extended. can that be? and now our reporter from the wall street journal, and now, come january 1st, everyone's tax rate goes up, set in stone? going to happen? >>reporter: not necessarily. the problem, though, is congress has been dragging its feet on taxes, and they are not going to tackle the tax rates until they come back in november. mean while, treasury usually releases the tax tables for

january 1st in the middle of november, so, payroll professionals are all worried and they don't know what the tax law will be and they need weeks to update their system. >> so it is possible regardless of what happens in congress during the lame duck session, it is possible when we get our first paychecks of the new year those paychecks will reflect a higher tax rate, regardless of what congress has done previously? >>reporter: it is possible but not likely. treasury will figure a rabbit to pull from the hat and they will continue with the tax tables the way they are until congress decides. but congress is dysfunctional and they are just employing all the deadlines. >> i want to make sure i have this right. suppose for a moment that the prebush tax cuts rates go back into effect, and all of our rates go up. i think i have some numbers how much more we would be paying, $40,000, you pay an extra $95 a

month, two kids, married. if you move up the income detail and pay an extra $165 a month if you have $80,000 a year, and then now looking at $100 the a year you would pay an extra $270 a month if you have two children, $35 a month. that is in the old prebush tax rates go back into effect. is that unlikely? >>reporter: i do but we don't know and congress has blown so many other deadlines this year. they have not told us what the estate tax is. we have no idea. they could make a retroactive change and they have not dealt with the alternate minimum tax so we cannot assume they will work it out. >> it is possible in the lake duck session nothing happens and you have to wait until the new congress that is in january so you will get a tax hike on january 1st and that is a possible? >>reporter: a possible.

remote. but it could happen. >> odds? >> 80-20. >> that are for joining us. companies are spending but instead of hiring up they are stocking up on their own stock. companies buying back a record $273 billion worth of their own shares this year. and that is on top of $2 trillion in cash they are sitting on, already. my next guest said continue the bush tax cuts and they will have incentive to hire instead of horde. and now, one of president george bush's to be economic adviser and co-author of "seeds of destruction." i understand there is $1.8 trillion in cash owned by big companies sitting on the side lines and you think if we citizen the tax cuts that money will come into play in the economy, correct?

>> we need two things. one is to citizen the tax cuts until we are ready to have a serious national conversation about the size of government. the truth is if we want a big government like we have in the president budget but we would have to raise taxes. businesses are sitting on a lost cab because there is so much policy uncertainty out there. we can politic that. >> big companies are unpopular. a lot of people are saying, wait, we bailed you out and we fixed the economy, and now, you are sitting on all this money and you will not help us out by hiring. unpopular at the moment. >>reporter: remember what any company should do is try to earn profits for the shareholders and many large companies are concerned about two things: one, there is enormous policy uncertainty, we don't know what tax rates will be next year, and we don't know about regulatory mandates from financial regulation, from health care

regulation, and, at the same time, they are concerned about aggregate demand so their behavior is reasonable. >> some people say we could get a republican sweep in vehicle reversing the psychology and then get an extension of the bush tax cuts and then they say you will get really big growth in the economy if those two things happen. you go along with that? >>reporter: there is missing smsmght i go along with the spirit but it is missing the need to bring down spending. we cannot extend all the bush tax cuts permanently, if we cannot bring down the size of government. we have to pull some of it back. >> if you had a plan to cut back entitles, pull in entitles for the future, bring in social security and medicare, something about kid caid, if you had a plan for the future would that fit the bill? all it would that is a point made in the book, if we could have a credible, long term plan

on intiements, we would have a lot of room to move in the near term. >> your book, chapter four says "you can't stimulate your way too prosperity," however, didn't china continue to stimulate and become a bit more prosperous? >>reporter: but they had a long period of growth as it opened up to the world markets. and that is really what is responsible for china's growth. china's recent stimulus package was also more effective than the package we had in the united states. >> so you say extend the tax cuts, and you will have a nice solid growth for the economy. that is your bottom line. a pleasure, thank you for joining us. a report is out fining 89,000 stimulus payments went to dead people and prisoners and democrats are pushing for another round.

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aluminum to spike by 13 percent, more good news for alcoa. 89,000 stimulus checks going to dead people and prisoners. yes, it is true. the inspector general of the social security administration reporting, folks, that people behind bars and in the ground getting a check worth $250. this comes when some democrats are pushing for more stimulus. and now, charlie, welcome. what is going on here? this is more waste, fraud, huge mistakes on a mass scale. >>reporter: when you talk 72,000 dead people, 17,000 prisoners! and then, some people at this point are, the numbers do not blow them away anymore when you say 18 million or 22 million they do not blow them were but that is the entire process you look at projects gentleman had they built new sidewalks that

were, theyibility new sidewalks that were already new, and who knows, it is just throwing money to nowhere. >> and that is in new jersey, ramps to nowhere. our home state. how long before we are blowing a hole through the idea that government can spend a vast amount of money and get into results. that idea stays in place and some public for more st. louis right now. >> some people are convinced from an economic point of view with some push this for political reason, somehow private sector screwed you but we will save you, just give us a chance, there have been small mistakes because it is has been working home values have plummeted. unemployment has gone through the roof, there is no evidence that this has worked and the national debt is through the

roof. this has not worked. but it is shocking. >> is stimulus another word for "income" and "woalt -- wealth redistribution." >>reporter: this form of stimulus. my mind to stimulate is to incentivize earners, a year freeze tax holiday on everyone who works. who makes money. of course they will spend more money. they will have a year, small business, forget the gimmicks if you hire a few people and keep them on it you buy, forget the gimmicks, make it straight down the line, a tax holiday for a year. those forms work. they do nopt want to do that because they are all about the politics. >> and nancy pelosi, she says, look, food stamps, that is the best bang for your taxpayer buck, it does most for the most. extend unemployment gives, the

best bang for your buck and she says this. obviously you do not agree. >>reporter: i have to tell you people on food stamps this should be a wake up call, you mean to tell me you are not trying to help me but you see me as a conduit for money to go to society but the goal, the aim is not to help me, that is all a facade the whole time. someone will get a check and spend it right away. >> counter argument is we are compassionate, this is the united states of america and we don't let -- but she is saying we are compassionate. >>reporter: she is saying our economic policy for rebuilding this country is $14 trillion economy should begin with giving people food stamps because they will spend it because the counter argument is we should not let rich people have a tax cut because they save money, we should punish someone for saving money and reward them as they spend it. >> that is the economic argument and you are right, that is the argument that speaker pelosi is

using blue 10 -- is a cultural argument and what that is, we are compassionate. >> if you let someone live and tie on welfare their entire like you have done them a disservice. >> take the poll, everyone, you saw it on the screens. will food stamps create jobs? do they give you the best bang for the buck? vote, vote now on the poll. anything else to say, for the last word? >> i am hoping, rather, helping neil cavuto tonight on fox business report. i will say that we create one job they will say that is good news. unions can opt out of part of the new health care law but states can't? an attorney general fighting

against it is here. stay tuned. host: could switching to geico really

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>> breaking news on the constitutionality of the health care reform act. a high court in michigan upheld the constitutionality of health care reform saying it is constitutional. it has been challenged on the grounds the mandate to force people to buy health insurance was unconstitutional and the michigan court rejected that and it is the first rejection of the constitutional challenge in any court so far. joining now with more on this is chief deputy attorney general of utah. sir, you her the news that is

braking, and it sounds like a defeat for you because you are in court, challenging the constitutionality of the mandate. >>guest: like you i heard about this decision by the michigan court and we are in the son district federal court of florida and our motion, the motion the government to dismiss is actually under advisement by the court and we expect we will survive the motion to dismiss and still be in the game. >> can i get your comment on the legal wording here. i will read it "plaintiffs claim the minimum coverage provision of health care reform is unconstitutional, under the commerce clause, has failed on the merits." they were challenging under the commerce clause that was rejected under that clause. any comment? >>guest: we disagree with that. if you take that rationale to thend, under the commerce clause, if congress can force americans to buy a good or a service by virtue of being an

american that is what actually is happening here in our view, utah, our plaintiffs in that suit, what is to keep congress from requiring this a person buy an automobile from a specific manufacturer that the kept has an interest in? we have in the read that case, and we don't know the rationale of the court but we disagree. >> and another side but similar argument, mcdonald's and 29 other companies, health insurance companies and unions have been given a one year waiver of some of the rules under health care reform implementing mini med coverage, a waiver of some rules for a year, now, i think you were looking for a similar waiver. do you think mcdonald's and the 29 other companies getting the waiver, does that milk a difference to your case? >>guest: it should. it begs a larger question, and

that is: this obama care, this health carry reform is, really, impacting the very companies, the insurance companies, the businesses and the states. what they are finding, soon after implementation, the states and the companies cannot afford to follow the requirements of the health care reform legislation. so they are asking for waivers but the threat is if they to not get them they will leave the marketplace and the administration is in a precarious position they have to delay implementation of the key components of the legislation which is supposed to be a cost savings measure for consumers because it is just not tenable for the companies, and so there goes competition or there goes obama care and we cannot decide. >> and a quick sound bite of robert gibbs on this very subject of offering a one year waiver to some of the companies. listen for a second.

why would anyone not ask for a waiver? nip who feels the law burdens them is going to ... i don't think that is the case because that is not been the case so far. >> he is talking about the waiver and saying it is not the case so far. but my, the question i raise, are we seeing health care unravel? you give waiver to one large group of companies and others will ask, and that, to me, is the unraveling of a very basic point in health care reform. >> you are right. and we are just getting started, these are just the very beginning stages of the implementation of the act. and if companies are asking for waivers because they cannot afford to stay in the business and marketplace without the waivers, how are the principles of the reform going to survive. what will happen is health care will be more expensive than we thought, it will be borne by the

taxpayers and the states will move their control over a fundamentally state issue. >> john, deputy chief attorney general in the state of utah thank you for joining us we appreciate your legal help sites here. good help to you. >> they are fighting for a seat in washington but did one campaign just go too far? stay tuned. .

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>> how do you beat them? look at this. >> mitchell bachmann doing more than her share for the special interests in washington, dc. democratic congressional candidate in minnesota, clark,

ripping her opponent, congressman bachmann in the ad and it is going viral and my guest says it is going too far. republican congresswoman joining me. we did put a call to the clark campaign for individual but we have not heard back. congresswoman, i have to say i am shocked that someone would lower the tone of public discourse in this way. what do you think? >>guest: your feeling is the same as those who have seen the video. the interesting thing is, this is what liberals have gone to. this is their opinion of the lincoln douglas debate what they consider civil discourse and it is very interesting to see what they have put forward and no one who has seen this ad so far thinks it is terribly effective or delivering a positive message. >> there was a disgraceful ad in

florida, similar, congressman grayson flatout lied about what his opponent has said and i have to point out that he, in fact, is now sinking in the polls because of that ad. have you seen a similar sinking in the polls by your open pop because of her a against you? >>guest: our polling has us up by an additional five points from where we were before and i think the more people in the district of minnesota see this type of ad, i think they will be disgusting. we are from minnesota, we have a phrase called "minnesota nice," and this ad if no way reflects the wonderful people here in minnesota or the concept that we cherish called "minute nice." >> i have to, why would she do this, why on earth would you introduce a vul gator -- something vul cigar like there in minnesota?

>>guest: it shows no standards that we use in public discourse, you run out of ideas and then you call names and this is as low as it can get. >> and moving on, talking about speaker pelosi who is saying publicly, that food stamps are for a bigger bang for the buck, and i will run a quick sound might and i want your comment. it is the biggest bang for the buck. when you do food stamps and unemployment insurance. the biggest bang for the buck. what do you thing of that "biggest bang for the buck," and with unemployment insurance you get good for the economy, what do you say? >>guest: well, i say that this is why the speaker of the house needs to lose her gavel in a few short days. she, unfortunately, has no knowledge of how you run an economy. it is tax increases and reduced government spending, that is what will create jobs but if you

follow her logic what you would need to do is have even more food stamps, you would have to have even more unemployment, and, of course, that is absurd. if the speaker believes that you can take money out of the private economy and put a dollar into public food stamps and somehow that creates a $1.79 all i can imagine she must mean that the price of bureaucracy might also be an additional 79 cents or 84 cents and that benefits the economy to buy more government. it is bizarre thinking but that is our speaker. >> could you be accused of being harsh, you don't like food stamps and turn people out on the streets and they lose their job and you do not give them unemployment benefits you could be accused of being harsh and speaker pelosi could say, we are a compassionate society, look what we do for people in need. >>guest: the obama-reid

economy is harsh. when you look at 1.8 million people losing jobs, just since the first easing from the fed, when you think of that enormous number, nothing is more cruel, nothing is more harsh, than an american losing their job. that is an affront against someone's dignity and there is more than just one person that is impacted. there are other people who are dependent upon the paycheck, scpa that is harsh. that is cruel. and it is absurd the statement that the speaker is making. >> let me break away to the poll we conducted because our viewers overwhelmingly agree with you, congresswoman. we put out a poll and 3,900 responded and 99 percent said miss pelosi is wrong, you do not get a big bang for your buck when you offer food stamps. so, the people are generally very much in agreement with you. may i raise one other issue

while we have you with us. i got this note, a congressional estimate that the federal deficit for the year 2010 budget year will be just under $1.3 trillion. a final comment on that. >>guest: well, again, that copies what president obama did the previous year. remember, from the first day george walk took office until the day george w. bush last office, less debt was accumulated from all 43 presidents than what president obama accumulated in one year. and the st. you -- estimate you just read is identical to the previous number in obama. we are drowning if a save red ink and we have a chance in less than 30 days to take our country back. >> it is $100 billion a month. that is the math. thank you very much, congress wop. that will do it here. i will seen you tomorrow on the

fox business network and our special guest is california governor arnold schwarzenegger and the state has a bailout. stay tuned. how are those flat rate boxes working out?

fabulous! they ga me this great idea. yea? we mail documents all over the country, so, what if there were riority mail flat rate... envelopes? yes! you could ship to any state... or a low flat rate? ! a really low flat re. like $4.90? yes! and it uld look like a flat rate box... only flatter? like th?